The Le Mans General Discussion Thread

[Furinkazen]

GT3 and GTE cars are cheaper that's why they have lots of competitors and why people stopped using GT1's, not because GT1 are bad or something.

Errr no. GT1 was becoming prohibitively expensive to run in.

But all those new hypercars and no race series for them looks like a waste to me. Call it GT1 call it how you want it, it will still be cool.

Only a waster of people want to race them and can't. And I don't here Koenigsegg and others crying about it, the cars are not intended for mass competition.

Stick to your dreams.

 

[Holdenhsvgtsr]

Errr no. GT1 was becoming prohibitively expensive to run in.

We have a winner, they weren't expensive to build but expensive to run due to the championship bring pro drivers only and not AM friendly to drive.

 

[Mt. Lynx]

GT1 in its latest iteration contained pro's, that is true, and the cars weren't that expensive to build - GTE money, basically.
But the previous cars... It was roughly twice the money to buy a 2007 GT1 DBR9 compared to a GT3 DBRS9.
And during those days - up unto 2009 - GT1 very much had am drivers. During that era, from -99' to -09', there were no actual factory teams, and the series pretty much worked like todays BES. Only the cars were twice as expensive.

 

[catamount39]

Wasn't the last year of the FIA GT1 World Championship in 2012 just GT3 cars with a few changes or something?

I think that GT3 should take over the world. Have GT3 cars at Le Mans ACO! *gasps* GT3 cars in the WEC! Seriously, have GTE for the Pro's and factory teams and GT3 cars for the Am class and the privateers. They won't ever do that though sadly...nice thought though...I'll recreate that idea in PCARS.

 

[AJ]

Hey, not sure if you guys realized, but the SRO are basically going to have glorified track days for those hyper cars and development vehicles like the Veyron, 918, Ferrari XX cars and P1 GTR. Link here

Nope.

 

[HKS racer]

GT1 in its latest iteration contained pro's, that is true, and the cars weren't that expensive to build - GTE money, basically.
But the previous cars... It was roughly twice the money to buy a 2007 GT1 DBR9 compared to a GT3 DBRS9.
And during those days - up unto 2009 - GT1 very much had am drivers. During that era, from -99' to -09', there were no actual factory teams, and the series pretty much worked like todays BES. Only the cars were twice as expensive.

This. We can say that global economic crisis ruined GT1's.

 

[Furinkazen]

This. We can say that global economic crisis ruined GT1's.

And the cars were ridiculously expensive. And if you say no, explain why the GT1 world championship stopped using these cars altogether and became just one using GT3 formula machines under the GT1 name.

 

[raceorama123432]

There were also nowhere near as many 'gentlemen drivers' in GT1 as there are in GT3. This is probably due to the costs of the cars.

 

[HKS racer]

Wasn't the last year of the FIA GT1 World Championship in 2012 just GT3 cars with a few changes or something?

Correct, last true GT1 championship was 2011. It has been a good run.

And the cars were ridiculously expensive. And if you say no, explain why the GT1 world championship stopped using these cars altogether and became just one using GT3 formula machines under the GT1 name.

Of course they were expensive.
But they had been expensive since mid 90's.
About 20 years of GT1, it has been a good run.

 

[Furinkazen]

Correct, last true GT1 championship was 2011. It has been a good run.

Of course they were expensive.
But they had been expensive since mid 90's.
About 20 years of GT1, it has been a good run.

There hasn't been 20 years of GT1.

 

[Legro]

About 20 years of GT1, it has been a good run.

Except there was a break between 1999 and 2004. And the regulations were completely different when the GT1 was back in 2005.

 

[Furinkazen]

Elaboration: The cars that ended as "GT1" started as "GT1" in the early 1990s'. Then McLaren, Toyota, Nissan created there own homologation specials under the "International GT1" banner, which subsequently became "LM GTP". Those "GT1" homologations races in FIA GT (CLK GTR, 911 GT1 Evo, so on). The cars which ran under the "GT2" class banner then became "GTS" which then morphed into "GT1" which died late in the last decade.

 

[AJ]

The P1 vs GT1 debate is really quite straight forward.

Do car companies want to promote a halo product (GT1)

Or

Do they want to promote halo technology (P1)

The answer is clearly the latter. The current manufactures with works programs are 3 of the largest car companies in the world. When they spend millions on advertising, because lets be clear thats what motorsport is to these guys, they want to be able to activate throughout their model line, and get the most bang for their buck.

NISSAN are promoting their LMP1 effort in their SuperBowl ad their year and not the latest GT-R, because advertising a GT-R sells only GT-Rs. Advertising that your brand is involved in top line motorsport sells Micras and Altimas. And guess where more of their revenue comes from.

 

[Furinkazen]

The P1 vs GT1 debate is really quite straight forward.

Do car companies want to promote a halo product (GT1)

Or

Do they want to promote halo technology (P1)

The answer is clearly the latter. The current manufactures with works programs are 3 of the largest car companies in the world. When they spend millions on advertising, because lets be clear thats what motorsport is to these guys, they want to be able to activate throughout their model line, and get the most bang for their buck.

NISSAN are promoting their LMP1 effort in their SuperBowl ad their year and not the latest GT-R, because advertising a GT-R sells only GT-Rs. Advertising that your brand is involved in top line motorsport sells Micras and Altimas. And guess where more of their revenue comes from.

You can put bits in an LMP in a road car, but can't put a GT1 car in a road car without it being some over the top special - oh wait, back at GT1 and the homologation specials!

 

[AJ]

You can put bits in an LMP in a road car,

Well. You can make your customers think that. Which is as good as.

The only companies who are currently interested in GT1 are (relatively) small manufactures who can't really afford it, and would rather supply to customers who can't really afford it either.

 

[Holdenhsvgtsr]

There were also nowhere near as many 'gentlemen drivers' in GT1 as there are in GT3. This is probably due to the costs of the cars.

No it's because the GT3 cars have abs and traction control etc

 

[LancerEvo7]

So if GT1's no longer feasible, why not bump up the lower classifications, like how late 90's GT2 became 00's GT1?

 

[Furinkazen]

So if GT1's no longer feasible, why not bump up the lower classifications, like how late 90's GT2 became 00's GT1?

Because GTE is supposed to be above GT3 and that was the old GT2, so thus changing to GTE totally negated the whole number system? Don't forget GT4 as well at the bottom.

 

[Legro]

How can you even bump up GTE, does it become GTF or something?

 

[AJ]

How can you even bump up GTE, does it become GTF or something?

GTD surely. Oh wait.

 

[Furinkazen]

GTD surely. Oh wait.

Then we got GTC. Wait, damn 911's.
GTB. Ferrari lawyers and it sounds like some kind of assault charge.
GTA. No, because then PD step in and we expect kids blowing up cars in gang wars online on their consoles....

 

[AJ]

How about we just ask the stake holders;

Manufactures - we want to sell racing cars to professional independent teams and wealthy individuals. We also want to be able to make them on our road car production line.

Teams - we want easy to run and maintain cars. A bit of factory support. And a stable and homogenous set of technical regulations so we can use the car for a while and enter lots of different championships.

Wealthy Individuals - ^ what he said. Also make it easy and predictable to drive.

Series Promotors - we just want lots of entries, so whatever ^ that lot want. If they sound and look good we might get some punters through the gates too.


That sounds a lot like GT3. Shall we change the name to GT1?


Manufactures - no, we have spent millions gaining brand recognition over the last 10 year or so.

Teams - couldn't care less.

Wealthy Individuals - meh.

Series Promotors - no, we have spent millions gaining brand recognition over the last 10 year or so.

 

[trustjab]

Back to some actual Le Mans stuff... the new HPD ARX-04

http://www.motorsport.com/wec/news/esm-runs-first-laps-with-honda-coupe

 

[SK8RBOI]

Well its Different..... It doesn't look as bad as I thourt it would. But i still don't like it, prefer the onroak car! Ints nice to see a bit of variaty, as the old lmp2 looked the same!

They must be running a low downfoce configuration for Daytona as the front body work is difrent to the images I have seen before.

 

[Clark]

It's not massively dissimilar to the Ligier.

 

[Holdenhsvgtsr]

Back to some actual Le Mans stuff... the new HPD ARX-04


http://www.motorsport.com/wec/news/esm-runs-first-laps-with-honda-coupe

Did toyota leave their proofs in the photocopier?

 

[trustjab]

Did toyota leave their proofs in the photocopier?

Toyota has closed bodywork up front. The only modern lmp ('14+) that has gone that route. Everyone else has open front bodywork. Probably to take advantage of the front wing.

 

[TDZdave]

http://www.motorsport.com/lemans/news/ten-teams-invited-to-2015-24-hours-of-le-mans/?v=2&s=1

invites sent,

hold up! Wayne Taylor racing????

 

[Panoz]

The WEC is going to have a press conference on Jan. 13 during the NAIAS in Detroit.

http://www.clickondetroit.com/consu...-revealed-for-2015-detroit-auto-show/30241670

Could it be something with the rumored Ford LM program.

 

[Holdenhsvgtsr]

The WEC is going to have a press conference on Jan. 13 during the NAIAS in Detroit.

http://www.clickondetroit.com/consu...-revealed-for-2015-detroit-auto-show/30241670

Could it be something with the rumored Ford LM program.

Nissan LMP1 with added Ecoboost.


Now that would be worth talking about.