The Le Mans General Discussion Thread
- Thread starter arvin charles
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CodeRedR51
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Don't believe the bottom car is it. The top however...
- 7,116
- Birmingham, UK
- GOTMAXPOWER
I saw this .gif posted on the Autosport forums by "dau", make of it what you will.
Edit: Link to original post: http://forums.autosport.com/topic/1...1-team-in-2015-le-mans-24h-and-wec/?p=7013025
Edit: Link to original post: http://forums.autosport.com/topic/1...1-team-in-2015-le-mans-24h-and-wec/?p=7013025
- 9,554
- Vermont
- catamount39
Man it's ugly. 
Like the Panoz GTR-1's ugly cousin. 
I can sort of make it out honestly. A mishmashed GTR nose, long bonnet, short arse, and a deep red coat of paint with a white wing. Intriguing.
Like the Panoz GTR-1's ugly cousin. I can sort of make it out honestly. A mishmashed GTR nose, long bonnet, short arse, and a deep red coat of paint with a white wing. Intriguing.
CodeRedR51
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Glad I'm not a member of that forum, a bunch of idiots over there.
- 2,741
- Michigan
- mcluvin93hatch
Apparently this is Nissans lmp1
Some german journalist says Nissan has only done "100km" of testing
Even though it's tiny & blurry, I have to say I kinda like how it looks, like a low-slung Panoz covered in Mazda's 'Red' Sky-activ livery.
Yes that is the first thing that popped into my head.
- 9,554
- Vermont
- catamount39
At least they've leaked a photo from testing.
So a long nosed, short tailed LMP1-H car? Sweet!
CodeRedR51
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It's just that they all think they are expert race engineers and know better than Nissan on what it takes for them to win in endurance racing. God forbid someone does something unique and different for a change.At least they've leaked a photo from testing.
And the comment over there about them having to use a rear wing because they couldn't get the car to work without it is donkey doo, the car has had a rear wing since day 1.
- 3,264
- Salt Lake City,
My bro says most are euro-centric over at autosport. Anything from Japan or America is inferior. Kinda funny how they ignore Toyota being dominant last year but for driver error.
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- GOTMAXPOWER
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- catamount39
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Doesn't everyone think American racers (the cars) are inferior sadly?
Well... outside of the perennial Corvettes, and the national series... what is there? Nothing much happens when a Camaro or Mustang GT3 turns up. The factory Viper racing is dead, Dodge and Chevy's ventures into rallycross are laughable. Fiestas do decent in whatever they enter but a pan-European design built in Sweden and England is far from American.
- 9,554
- Vermont
- catamount39
Hopefully the Cadillac ATS-V.R GT3 fixes our GT3 problem...it's not much but it's something...hopefully the Ford GT-GTE does well next year. Corvette is something we can hang our hat on though with the C7.R.
And hopefully the Haas F1 car does well in 2016...
- 10,270
- Bonn
- GTAce
The Camaro and Mustang GT3 are usually crippled by the balance of performance.
The Ford GT had a successful time in the GT1, but when the series vanished and especially after the boss of Matech died, it also kinda ended the car's career. There was a Ford GT GT3 in the ADAC GT Masters with some good results.
I'd definitely love to see more successful American cars aside from the Corvette.
Also:
Always fun to watch haha.
- 3,264
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True, its mostly multi-national. A Japanese figurehead and powertrain with a French team principle assembled in Germany.But the Toyota is European, it's German
- 3,585
- Phoenix, AZ
- GTP_Snaeper
When the Americans really put their money behind something, they're successful. GT3 is, in my opinion, a terrible example because just about every American GT3 car that's raced has done so with little to no support from the factory. Even then, though, the Viper Competition Coupe and Matech Ford GT's (both GT1 and GT3 versions) were very competitive cars, with the Matech GT3's capturing the FIA championship in '08 and still being raced somewhat competitively six years later. The Corvette racing 'Vettes have always been a contender in whatever race or class they enter, even in the hands of privateers. And Callaway has clearly done well enough (FIA GT3 Champions '07, 2nd Place in ADAC GT Masters in '12 and '14, with the Championship in '13) to continue to develop GT3 machinery to the point that they're onto their third iteration of a GT3 Corvette counting the separate evolutions of the C6. And they're racing against some of the most dominant GT3 marques and teams in their own backyard.
I think we can all agree that the pair of Mustangs and SaReNi Camaro are not the best examples of GT3 machinery. The FR500 GT3 was developed from the FR500GT and not built from the ground up for GT3 (although few cars were at that period). The VDS Mustang had pitiful amounts of development time and was really only used because Marc VDS was still racing with Ford in GT1 (my theory anyways). And the Camaro was built with the singular goal of being an affordable GT3 machine. Once Reiter stops making go-fast Lamborghini's, I imagine the Camaro will become a threat just like the Corvette.
Really, though, since GT3 and GT racing in general (same goes for Rally and other euro-centric motorsports) have bigger followings in Europe, the European marques will always have the upper-hand, because it makes more sense for them to dedicate motorsport budgets to those series. It's also easier to set up distribution and support channels for parts and technical support. They have the infrastructure in place and stand to gain more from investing in it.
Imagine what GM would be doing if their motorsports budget was redirected from NASCAR and IndyCar to GT and Rally? They already showed they were competitive Touring car champions in WTCC and BTCC, their Corvette's continue to go to Le Mans for a reason, and now they've developed their dominant Cadillac GT program into a GT3 machine that's set to go to Europe. No, America may not rule the roost, but our cars don't do too shabby.
I think we can all agree that the pair of Mustangs and SaReNi Camaro are not the best examples of GT3 machinery. The FR500 GT3 was developed from the FR500GT and not built from the ground up for GT3 (although few cars were at that period). The VDS Mustang had pitiful amounts of development time and was really only used because Marc VDS was still racing with Ford in GT1 (my theory anyways). And the Camaro was built with the singular goal of being an affordable GT3 machine. Once Reiter stops making go-fast Lamborghini's, I imagine the Camaro will become a threat just like the Corvette.
Really, though, since GT3 and GT racing in general (same goes for Rally and other euro-centric motorsports) have bigger followings in Europe, the European marques will always have the upper-hand, because it makes more sense for them to dedicate motorsport budgets to those series. It's also easier to set up distribution and support channels for parts and technical support. They have the infrastructure in place and stand to gain more from investing in it.
Imagine what GM would be doing if their motorsports budget was redirected from NASCAR and IndyCar to GT and Rally? They already showed they were competitive Touring car champions in WTCC and BTCC, their Corvette's continue to go to Le Mans for a reason, and now they've developed their dominant Cadillac GT program into a GT3 machine that's set to go to Europe. No, America may not rule the roost, but our cars don't do too shabby.
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- 24,642
- Anoka, MN
Considering there are only 3 major automakers in the U.S. it's not surprising that they don't have more success (this same thing can be said about Japan), doubly so when one of them doesn't even have much presence in any domestic series (Chrysler). Now compare that to Europe/UK which has quite a bit more brands even if you bunch all the VAG brands together.
- 22,551
- Arizona
- HamiltonMP427
Well it would need factory backing for that to happen, the GT3 Camaro didn't have the factory backing just a customer car. ATS-V should be different along with the GT, also the Viper may return through Riley with minor support from Dodge if I remember correctly. Also America makes have had success in GT3, WTCC and BTCC in recent years so...
I don't care if it's built in Sussex, Woking, Homberg, Geneva, Hinwil, Paris* or whatever, it's a product of the corporation with their technology on their bank roll, going back into their company with varying applications to road cars.
*using random areas in Europe in major Countries of auto racing not specifically talking about any team
- 3,585
- Phoenix, AZ
- GTP_Snaeper
Also:
I'd just like to point something out to those that would believe American cars are lackluster. That's a Ford GT who's most prominent driver on the team that year was a gentleman by the name of Herman Tilke, doing an excellent job of outrunning a Manthey Porsche (which should be enough of a feat in and of itself but I'll continue) that was driven by a Five-time Nurb 24 Hour winner and a trio of LMP1 level pilots and Audi/Porsche factory drivers. One of those cars was on pole, the other won the event outright.
The one reason American cars are as successful as they are is because the vehicles are pretty damn good to start with. Corvette's, Ford GT's and Viper's are known to be fast, powerful cars. They're not known for good interiors, or reputable branding, or high price tags. They're known for having huge engines and for being capable of big numbers. It's why small European teams even bother developing them without assistance. Because the cars are cheap and lend themselves well to being race cars. I'd much rather tackle the project of developing a Viper or Corvette for racing by myself than attempting to develop a Ferrari, Audi or Aston Martin.
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- 1,680
- Great White North
- I_powerslide
In my opinion it's no more American than the Fords which run in BTCC or WRC. It was developed entirely by Swiss team Matech. Just like I consider the Toyota LMP1 to be German, not Japanese, or the Mercedes F1 to be British.
Having said that, I don't agree that Americans make inferior race cars (just look at the success Corvette has had in GT1 and GT2).
- 3,585
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- GTP_Snaeper
Oh I understand, I was mostly responding to this:
Doesn't everyone think American racers (the cars) are inferior sadly?
My point being that Matech isn't Ford, yet they developed the Ford GT and made a competitive car anyways. Which to me speaks highly of the strength of American machinery as the basis for a racing car (though some still might argue how 'American' the Ford GT actually is, Clarkson-style).
The only truly American GT3 machines are the Vipers and now the Cadillac currently. With only the FR500 GT3 also counting an American developed heritage. Both Vipers (The Comp Coupe and GT3-R) have held their own, we have yet to see what the Cadillac can do, and you already know how I feel about Pony GT3's.
Head up to GTE and you'll find race and Championship winning Vipers (RIP) and Corvette's beating factory BMW's, Porsche's and Aston Martin's. Even the Panoz Esperente GTLM was a competent car back in the day.
Scroll back to the second iteration of GT1 and you'll find Corvette's and Saleen's doing work (in addition to the Matech GT GT1's).
The First iteration of GT1 was silly money-blowing nonsense, but even then the front-engined Panoz's showed well against Porsche's and Mercedes' that had loads more money being thrown at them. Meanwhile the original Viper GTS-R was cleaning up against a swarm of Porsche's in that era's GT2 class in nearly every event it entered.
The last time the Big Three spent good money to win Le Mans outright, they did (And no, I don't think GM spent 'good money' on their Cadillac LMP program, before anyone says anything.). Several times in a row in fact. During that same era, a crazy Texan was slaying Ferrari's with Anglo-American frankencars that had snakes on the hood. If you have a problem calling the basic Cobra an American car, then what about the Peter Brock-designed Daytona version? That car made the now-fabled 250 GTO look silly. I also believe the all-american Chaparral's deserve credit for a lot of racing innovations.
Anyways, I'm sorry for continuing a very unrelated but spirited conversation.
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- 22,551
- Arizona
- HamiltonMP427
Once again, if the car is backed by the manufacture and the manufactures engineers along with the group they decide to work with (i.e. Joest for Audi) are in effort together then it is an Audi and a German piece. Same goes when Chrysler worked with Riley and gave aid back in the late 90s early 2000s, same goes for Toyota now. They are using the Manufacture technology and building from that with manufacture money and support and aid in engineering too. Basically they work for Toyota and thus are Toyota.
What you're saying is nearly on par with saying that, because a Honda is built in Kentucky by a U.S. group of workers through Honda America or Acura, somehow suddenly becomes an American made and designed project. It doesn't, the car is still a Japanese mark and make and everything else, but to save money is instead built local.
Now Matech or Reiter or even Lambre is different yes, but the cars used were designed and engineered by American Manufactures while the aero and mapping is usually done by the team. But that's it, the engine upgrades for the Reiter GT3 Camaro is provided through Katech, and Pratt and Miller still have a hand in the effort too due to doing all things GM in regard to Motor Racing.
Edit: Snaeper cleared up what I thought was obvious in the post above, my last part was more geared toward what he was explaining about how American made Racing cars are great development pieces due to coming that way.
The other part is counter this general idea (first two paragraphs) on how people seem to think that some how not building a race car in a nationalist effort (in ones own nation of origin) makes it no longer a Toyota or Chevy or so on...
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- catamount39
Look at it! WOOH!!!!!!!
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