The Le Mans General Discussion Thread

[prisonermonkeys]

Given that this is the Super bowl they chose to show this, I don't think that ad was particularly done with us race fans in mind.

Oh, I'm aware of that. But given the theme of the advert, I think it undermines the release of the car.

 

[Bo]

Oh, I'm aware of that. But given the theme of the advert, I think it undermines the release of the car.

That's why they did the other one, the one that focuses solely on the P1.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

So, this is the GT-R LM Nismo:

But I have also found an early sketch of the design:

 

[Snaeper]

We don't want to be like the other manufacturers who are guarded, who keep everything under wraps and only tell you what they want to know," he said. "We are going to be wide open. Come on in, see it all, tell your story however you want—guts and all, and we plan to do the same. Post our setup sheets online. Look at all the little technical details, the spring rates, or whatever. Make this your own car, learn from it, ask questions.

This is probably the most interesting quote from the R&T article...

Little off-subject but are there any rumors about Doran planning to go back to the DP ranks? The one in the photo might have just been a commercial prop but the Tudor number plate just gives off that vibe.

I could be looking at this too seriously to be honest.

Technically they are, they run the #50 Highway to Help entry. It's a likely possibility that the #50 was given a different livery and temporarily became that DP pictured there (the #77).

 

[RACECAR]

Thing is, The #50 is an updated DP to the current Prototype regs and immediately, one notable difference is the missing side exhaust.

Could possibly be a older car Pre-Merger that they simply reskinned.

 

[trustjab]

The racer.com article is a bit funny. Toyota has 'a dome chassis and Super GT engine', Porsche 'copied Audi' Not sure thats correct Mr. Cox

Porsche, basically, almost copied Audi in a lot of respects. Toyota have a Dome chassis with a Super GT engine. They all had something that they could then utilize. Everyone has the same idea.

 

[Tom]

Marc Gene will spearhead the GT-R LM Nismo project, ending his three-year association with Audi.

http://www.crash.net/le-mans/news/213329/1/gene-to-lead-innovative-nissan-le-mans-project.html

 

[Hun200kmh]

Gené obviously doesnt play Gran Turismo.

 

[niky]

So, this is the GT-R LM Nismo:

I like it. Warts and all.

Is Bowlby the Burt Rutan of racecar designers? He might just be.

 

[R5]

Is Bowlby the Burt Rutan of racecar designers? He might just be.

I think there's not might about it.

This is probably the most interesting quote from the R&T article...

Yes! Finally! A team not being all MI6 about their car!

The racer.com article is a bit funny. Toyota has 'a dome chassis and Super GT engine', Porsche 'copied Audi' Not sure thats correct Mr. Cox

Smack talk, pretty damn good smack talk too

 

[TheCracker]

Looks so much better in red than it did in flat black. Still no beauty though.

It's a pretty ballsy move to create a FWD front engined LMP1, but good to see some innovation. 👍

The Deltawing may have been innovative, but it was also an irrelevance.

 

[niky]

The Deltawing may have been innovative, but it was also an irrelevance.

Irrelevant at LeMans, but I'm still hoping for a Deltawing spec series somewhere down the road. The challenges in terms of set-up, design and racecraft would make it interesting to watch.

-

Smart move on Nissan's part. Having a big manufacturer enter LeMans causes some chatter and some motorsports coverage.

Having a big manufacturer come in with something so bizarre yet serious causes an incredible amount of buzz. And even if they don't finish... just qualifying with a competitive time will gain them more media traction out of the effort than Porsche got with its own LeMans project.

 

[wowbaggerBR]

One thing that I'm curious, and nobody has asked Nismo men, is about safety. The engine, radiators and whatnot being in the front, in case of a crash, wouldn't it all go inside the cockpit? How do you dissipate energy from a crash with so much heavy stuff in the way?

I'm sure FIA has lots of protocols to a LMP1 pass in a crash test. But are there measures, guidelines and standards to a front engined LMP1?

Knowing that some of the hybrid wizardly is put below drivers feet I doubt safety was a concern when the car was designed.

 

[GTPorsche]

One thing that I'm curious, and nobody has asked Nismo men, is about safety. The engine, radiators and whatnot being in the front, in case of a crash, wouldn't go inside the cockpit? How do you dissipate energy from a crash with so much heavy stuff in the way?

I'm sure FIA has lots of protocols to a LMP1 pass in a crash test. But are there measures, guidelines and standards to a front engined LMP1?

Knowing that some of the hybrid wizardly is put below drivers feet I doubt safety was a concern when the car was designed.

They've all got the "hybrid wizardry" under the floor of the cockpit.

Bulkheads prevent anything from getting inside the driver's area in regards to parts mounted on the car. It's the same reason why MR layouts don't have the components going through the rear of the car in the instance of a rearward impact.

 

[catamount39]

Anybody think that this bottom aero trickery will advance to a point where rear wings could be deleted in the near future?

 

[Hun200kmh]

That was what the Deltawing was all about. Drag-less downforce, Colin Chapman style, but this time with no skirts. The problem with that is that as soon as the car loses contact with the ground (a more severe bump in a corner) it will fly.

Ever since the excessiveness of the venturi shaped bottoms was found to be dangerous the FIA has imposed the flat bottoms. First car I know that raced at the highest level without such a rule was exactly the Deltawing.


EDIT - Here's a good read about it - http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2007/06/07/banned-ground-effects/

 

[catamount39]

That was what the Deltawing was all about. Drag-less downforce, Colin Chapman style, but this time with no skirts. The problem with that is that as soon as the car loses contact with the ground (a more severe bump in a corner) it will fly.

Ever since the excessiveness of the venturi shaped bottoms was found to be dangerous the FIA has imposed the flat bottoms. First car I know that raced at the highest level without such a rule was exactly the Deltawing.


EDIT - Here's a good read about it - http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2007/06/07/banned-ground-effects/

As I read what you posted I had a facepalm moment. Ground effects are a gamble...because with wings on the car is getting downforce even if they're jumping curbs. And if you use too much ground effect with less wing then there's going to be a price to pay. But that was a really good article that shed even more light on the subject and I thank you for sharing it. 👍

Though maybe using the car as a downforce genrator (above the floor) is an interesting idea.

 

[Hun200kmh]

Since this Nissan complies with the rules it must have the mandatory flat bottom, not sure exactly where it is supposed to start and end, but somewhere between the front wheels and up to the rear diffuser. Therefore all downforce not based on "wings" must be based on airflow not UNDER but INSIDE the body of the car. And I guess that's where Ben Bowlby placed all his (aerodynamic design) efforts, and that why the back and the sides of the car show up as basically empty when compared to MR cars (with the engine at the back and the radiators on the sides).


EDIT - I think again my limited English has resulted in a confusing post. Here, from this RACER article , the most relevant part regarding what I was trying to write about:

Moving away from its drivetrain, which will surely draw the most attention from fans and media outlets, the biggest breakthrough with Bowlby’s Nissan is the through-flow aerodynamics. Your conventional rear-engined LMP1-H chassis is limited for space at the back of the car, and as a result, large, volume-robbing items like the radiators and other auxiliary systems are moved forward where they’re housed in the sidepods.

The choice to put the radiators at the front of the GT-R LM NISMO, followed, in order, by the transmission and engine, meant all of the primary systems could be contained ahead of the chassis firewall—ahead of the windshield. The engine’s exhaust system and turbos have been raised to clear space between the block and the 14-inch front tires to make space for tunnels that run almost the entire length of the car, and within those tunnels, the Nissan takes aerodynamic efficiency to a new level.

With air hitting the front of the GT-R LM NISMO, it envelops the car—flows beneath the car via the splitter, and heads over and around the body. By moving the engine and all of its friends to the front, Bowlby was able to create a pair of rectangular tunnels that take their feed from the trailing edge of the splitter’s upswept wing profile and carries large volumes of air around the cockpit and out the highly tapered tail section.

It’s similar to a catamaran design where the center portion of the car—the one that punches a big, disturbing whole through the air—has been taken away to allow the air to pass through the area with ease. By using the empty sidepods as a bypass, Bowlby has significantly reduced aerodynamic drag, and in Nissan’s quest to win through innovation, this core design element should produce improved fuel economy, among other benefits.

RE-EDIT - This car deserved its own thread really, here a couple of (impressive) pics, especially the rear view one:

 

[catamount39]

The idea of making the car a giant wing by having flow through the car is ingenious if you think about it. You get the benefits of ground effects with (almost) the security of a wing.

 

[SK8RBOI]

I don't know if I'm being silly here but do any of you see the rear brake lights?

 

[catamount39]

I don't know if I'm being silly here but do any of you see the rear brake lights?

......actually no.....where the **** are they?

 

[RACECAR]

Probably in the rear wing endplates like the Audi R18.

 

[catamount39]

Probably in the rear wing endplates like the Audi R18.

I mean that'd make sense but...they even look puny. Maybe they'll put them on the uh..."mud flaps"?

 

[GTPorsche]

That is a rather good observation. I can't see any LED strips anywhere on the rear.

 

[raven214]

So, this is the GT-R LM Nismo:

I'm curious what the forward peripheral visibility is like. I know it's not that great in a "normal" P1 to begin with, but it looks especially poor with this car at least from this angle.

 

[Holdenhsvgtsr]

That is a rather good observation. I can't see any LED strips anywhere on the rear.

Black stripe on top of the rest deck.

 

[Clark]

I'm curious what the forward peripheral visibility is like. I know it's not that great in a "normal" P1 to begin with, but it looks especially poor with this car at least from this angle.

 

[catamount39]

Black stripe on top of the rest deck.

 

[Holdenhsvgtsr]

Meant to be rear deck autocorrect decided to get involved for some reason...

 

[catamount39]

Meant to be rear deck autocorrect decided to get involved for some reason...

Well I didn't notice that bit...though that's funny.