The Le Mans General Discussion Thread

Yep a proto also caused the #4 vette to spin early in the race and lose a bunch of positions. Ive wished for along time that the alms would run gt and lmps sepratly but that probably wouldnt work because then the field would be too small. Also it seems like lmp is going the way of group c and late 90s gt1. I doubt toyota will even be around in lmp in 2014. I think if lmp1 is going to survive the wec and alms need to combine their lmp classes and make it a world lm series.
 
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Kakarot
Yep a proto also caused the #4 vette to spin early in the race and lose a bunch of positions. Ive wished for along time that the alms would run gt and lmps sepratly but that probably wouldnt work because then the field would be too small. Also it seems like lmp is going the way of group c and late 90s gt1. I doubt toyota will even be around in lmp in 2014. I think if lmp1 is going to survive the wec and alms need to combine their lmp classes and make it a world lm series.
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That would take away from all the excitement though, and the spirit of Le Mans. At least in my opinion.
 
Yeah I like the idea of multi-class racing but I guess we just have to accept if the racing in lmp is close drivers will take risks and there will be more avoidable contact/racing incidents.
 
jjaisli
In case you guys are interested, I was at Lime Rock for the ALMS race this past weekend. And I had a camera with me... ;)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/82213146@N06/sets/72157630486271064/

Enjoy.
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Wow, great stuff, I'll add you as a contact on Flickr :) I'll be at Mosport in a couple weeks for ALMS and I'll have my camera with me.. The lenses I rented for Watkins Glen last weekend is already booked though..
 
Mac K
That would take away from all the excitement though, and the spirit of Le Mans. At least in my opinion.
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Yeah I agree, they would have to change the name also. I just dont think the alms would be able to survive that way either. It was just a fantasy of mine. Besides I can watch fia gt for that.
 


The ACO really needs to revise the whole LMP rules, from LMP1 to LMP-C. Those cars simply need more straightline speed to avoid the drivers diving inside the GT cars to be able to get past.
 
I dont think you can just "Add Straightline speed" without either

A. Changing the regs to require less aero- Which just simply isnt an option

B. Free up the restrictors- As I recall they were limited in the name of safety... Would a 700-800 bhp LMP1 car really be more safe?

C. Allowing Movable wing elements- which will get expensive, as well as dangerous.

D. Bump up the total amount of KERS storage and recharging/ allow "Push-to-Pass"- Would be both expensive and dangerous

E. Allow 7 or 8 speed gearboxes? This would lead to faster acceleration, thus a higher potential top speed, but would be heavier, and more expensive. But on the efficiency front... Not so bad.



Realistically, I think LMPC cars should use engines that are the same power, weight, etc as GTC cars; A bit slower than a GT engine. In that case, the lower weight and better aero package should lead to a higher speed at the end of the straight, despite being less powerful than a GT car.

LMP2 cars should have to conform to GT engine regulations
This allows the same power as GT, and a better top end as a result of the weight. They should EASILY get past the GT cars. And keep costs down. And attract manufacturers. (Ok, thats a stretch)

LMP1 can have whatever High-end, uber-speed engine regs they want.
 
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Here's what would be nice but would never happen:

LMP1 - Pre-2011 rules
LMP2 - GT1 engines
LMPC - GT2 engines
GT1 - 2012 FIA GT1 regulations, GT3 cars.
GT2 - Current GTE Pro. Get rid of Am completely.
GTC - No change.

That's just what I'd do.
 
LancerEvo7
Here's what would be nice but would never happen:

LMP1 - Pre-2011 rules
LMP2 - GT1 engines
LMPC - GT2 engines
GT1 - 2012 FIA GT1 regulations, GT3 cars.
GT2 - Current GTE Pro. Get rid of Am completely.
GTC - No change.

That's just what I'd do.
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If only.... 👍
 
hawkeye122
B. Free up the restrictors- As I recall they were limited in the name of safety... Would a 700-800 bhp LMP1 car really be more safe?
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You know they indeed did this in the name of safety wich on paper looked right. But in reality it has presented a big safety issue by forcing the LMP drivers to take big risks in order to get by and keep momentum up. As crazy as it sounds they really need to bump HP up in the name of safety.
 
Jav
As crazy as it sounds they really need to bump HP up in the name of safety.
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The same was said of the IndyCar series after Dan Wheldon's death, when the issue of pack racing was discussed. They ended up losing most of their downforce to make the cars more difficult to drive in a pack, but with all the corners at Le Mans, that would just make the problem worse. I can see either giving the LMP cars more power or taking some away from the GT cars.
 
Jav
You know they indeed did this in the name of safety wich on paper looked right. But in reality it has presented a big safety issue by forcing the LMP drivers to take big risks in order to get by and keep momentum up. As crazy as it sounds they really need to bump HP up in the name of safety.
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Adding speed will only make LMP drivers think they can get a little bit more.

*Caution! Really horrible distance estimations ahead*

So lets say now that the max distance between a GT car and the LMP car behind it for a SUCCESSFUL pass going into Mulsanne is... 60 feet.

Now, if you were able to increase your speed, the maximum distance would go up. The drivers would think they could out-brake drivers that are even FURTHER up the road. And the further the GT cars are away, the more time that the LMP driver has to anticipate a move.

If you're right on someone bumper, they know you are coming into the turn. But several car lengths up the field? They have no idea what you are doing, and you have no clue what they are doing.

Imagine if Davidson's crash had been at oh, I dont know, 50 mph quicker than it was. That would have been a much harder impact.

"Well yeah, but he would have already been by the Ferrari with the massive advantage"
Sure. But what if the Ferrari had been a little bit quicker on his laptime? What if the Ferrari was a bit further up the road?

The fact is, there will probably ALWAYS be a GT car thats right on the edge of being punted off due to a last minute pass. Having faster cars wont help where the GT cars just happen to be on-track at that moment.
 
TheBook
The same was said of the IndyCar series after Dan Wheldon's death, when the issue of pack racing was discussed. They ended up losing most of their downforce to make the cars more difficult to drive in a pack, but with all the corners at Le Mans, that would just make the problem worse. I can see either giving the LMP cars more power or taking some away from the GT cars.
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I kinda think both at the same time would work. What made four classes not as risky for passing before was that greater discrepency of straightline speed and power between the classes. LMP drivers wouldn't have to make as many risky passes just to get around GT cars
 
ORECA launches a new ENTRY-LEVEL PROTOTYPE in 2013!

CN/LMP3 project:

2012_ORECA_Annonce_PrototypeCN_1.jpg


2012_ORECA_Annonce_PrototypeCN_2.jpg


ORECA is expanding its « constructor» program with the launch of a third line of prototypes : a car destined as much for competition as for leisure will be born in 2013. In 2009, ORECA launched the Formula Le Mans and two years later the ORECA 03 made its race debut. Since then, the car has accumulated successes and podiums in endurance racing, and shined at the 24 Hours of Le Mans. In offering a third prototype, destined for competition and leisure, the Groupe ORECA is taking on a new challenge and entering a new market.
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Looks like an F1 car, a Peugeot 908 and a Zytek had a three-way.

Make it street legal. I'll find the money to buy one.
 
I don't think it's only a speed issue, to me it's the lines the LMPs are taking to get around. When they stick their nose into the apex hoping the GT driver will yield the normal racing line, and then they get hit, well what do you expect but crashes? Especially with low visibility cars like the 458 and R-18. No wonder those two collide so often.

Is anyone catching the race this weekend? I'll be out of town and ELMS NEVER puts replay of their regular season races :grumpy:
 
Richard Westbrook seems to be particularly annoyed today, from what he's been tweeting...

@RWestbrook1

Fed up with journos slagging off ‪#elms‬ ‪#fiagt1‬ ‪#grandam‬ ‪#alms‬ ‪#gt3
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and later, which was then re-tweeted by Lucas Luhr

@RWestbrook1

We live in tough times. Rather than count the grid let's talk our sport up ‪#ilovesportscarracing
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I mean, I see where he's coming from, but what exactly pushed him over the edge?
 
I have a lot of hope for this sport. By the time we run out of fossil fuel Le Mans will already have moved on to hydrogen or electric or something else. They're taking massive strides all the time with Green X Challenge and all the hybrid/future-poised entries. Some of these LMPs look like space ships and aim toward that kind of planet-aware technology, too. I love the direction it's heading.
 
RE: New Oreca thing

So what's it for? Another class of entry-level LMP racers? Just for fun ( a la Zonda F, Ferrari FXX)? Replace the FLM09? I really dont understand...
 
hawkeye122
RE: New Oreca thing

So what's it for? Another class of entry-level LMP racers?
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Correct.

In a few months, the ORECA 03 and the ORECA-FLM09 will be joined by a little sister. A new car that responds to the current demand. « This « CN » type prototype responds to the needs of drivers and teams wishing to compete on circuits, in the context of competition or leisure, at a reasonable cost. » announced Hugues de Chaunac. « With the ORECA-FLM09 and the ORECA 03, we already have quality cars which, on one hand, allow teams to reach the highest levels of endurance racing, and on the other, allow teams to aim for victory in the 24 Hours of Le Mans and FIA World Endurance Championship. Today, we expand the offering with an « entry level » prototype. »
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ZEROX
Whoa, it's just me or that windscreen are big compare to the other close-cockpit protoype. :scared:
Even it's just a sketches but still...
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Well its not intended for LMP1 or 2 so it won't need to conform to those rules, as far as I can work out anyway.
 

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