Michelin
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The Le Mans General Discussion Thread
- Thread starter arvin charles
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- XizangM1
Cross-post from the Sao Paulo thread:
I'm going to have to officially declare the Ferrari 458s the absolute worst race cars in all of Le Mans history. They are a safety threat that have had constant incidents with LMPs at nearly every race, including at the start of the Sao Paulo WEC race (for those who missed it). I honestly think that the car should be redesigned/replaced, as I believe there is a flaw with it that's preventing those drivers from actually seeing the prototypes.
I'm going to have to officially declare the Ferrari 458s the absolute worst race cars in all of Le Mans history. They are a safety threat that have had constant incidents with LMPs at nearly every race, including at the start of the Sao Paulo WEC race (for those who missed it). I honestly think that the car should be redesigned/replaced, as I believe there is a flaw with it that's preventing those drivers from actually seeing the prototypes.
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Its not the car's fault, its the drivers behind the wheel. I'm willing to bet it was once again a GT-Am driver.
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I wouldn't say that was anyone's fault. Looks like they all had little time to react, and you gotta remember that Prototypes slow down quicker than GTEs.
And besides, it was the Gulf Middle East prototype. It would've wrecked on it's own at some point if it weren't for this
And besides, it was the Gulf Middle East prototype. It would've wrecked on it's own at some point if it weren't for this
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Michelin
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I don't know which one, but one of the Pro 458s pushed the #2 R18 if I'm not mistaken almost out of the track. The Audi driver reacted quick to that and prevented the accident. On the Lap 1 incident it was Enrique Bernoldi who crashed with 458. Not defending my fellow countryman (I took a picture with him as well
), but I guess that he had a really short time to react, with 3 P2 cars spinning in front of him and with 4 to 6 GTs behind me. I hadn't a clear view of the accident live, so I can't really tell.
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- XizangM1
Just a thought, maybe they really can replace the 458 GTE now that it's no longer their flagship road car...
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- entertowin(1st) and niNjasPY55(2nd and m
Sier_Pinski
Another accident with LMPs
? Ever since the two incidents with the R18s at the 2011 running of LeMans, the 458s have a huge problem with the LMPs and even some of the GT cars in the WEC.I think Ferarri needs to look into three solutions to this problem:
Redesign the F458's A and B pillars so they can have a better view and side view. Even better placement of side mirrors or more mirrors in different areas inside the cockpit can help the drivers.
Train the drivers more and use the data they obtain to see who's at fault either the car, drivers or both.
Or replace the F458 with another car.
That what I think they should do before it gets out of hand IMO.
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If the P1 cars really were that much faster, why do they keep getting hit by slower cars? The incident in Brazil involved the supposedly-faster P1 car getting hit from behind by the supposedly-slower 458. Can you see how this might be a problem?
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That rear ending was the Ferraris fault. The Gulf Nissan (P2?) braked or slowed down when he saw the accident ahead, something the Ferrari didn´t. I haven´t watched the race yet, so I can´t comment on the R18/Ferrari incident though.
In most other cases, I´d blame the speed difference rather than any drivers. Both Audis last year at LM was trying opportunistic paths, all the while the poor Ferrari drivers misjudged the approaching cars speed. Same with Ant Davidson this year. The Ferrari driver even admitted so.
In most other cases, I´d blame the speed difference rather than any drivers. Both Audis last year at LM was trying opportunistic paths, all the while the poor Ferrari drivers misjudged the approaching cars speed. Same with Ant Davidson this year. The Ferrari driver even admitted so.
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- Shoe_67
I think they should put greater restrictions on how much experience you need to have before you can drive the GT cars. Most incidents are caused by GT AM drivers. Also, I like the idea of moving A and B pillars then adding some mirrors. Maybe even a couple cameras looking into the blind spot. I know rockenfeller's 2011 le mans accident could have been prevented along with anthony davison's accident at 2012 Le mans. Both incidents the Ferrari didn't see the car and turned down on them
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Actually both drivers did see the cars coming behind them, but they had no idea they were coming that fast. Hard to make that call when you are doing 150mph yourself...
And for the record, AM drivers are no greenhorns usually. They are just not factory drivers, or have not achieved gold status for the year.
And for the record, AM drivers are no greenhorns usually. They are just not factory drivers, or have not achieved gold status for the year.
freshseth83
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The 458's have rear visibility problems no doubt. And the incidents with a Ferrari and LMP at Brazil were with a PRO driver.
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- BasedAckbar
It's also difficult to discern how fast a car is coming up on you when your mirrors are also filled with super bright lights from the headlights. The Audi R18 had complaints about its headlights at night.
I think Ferrari should just install some extra cameras to better monitor the blind spots.
I think Ferrari should just install some extra cameras to better monitor the blind spots.
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- spooble
It's official. The Delta Wing will be competing at Petit Le Mans. With Lucas Ordonez and Gunnar Jeannette at the wheel.
https://roadatl.safe-orders.net/news_detail.lasso?-Token.id=34144
https://roadatl.safe-orders.net/news_detail.lasso?-Token.id=34144
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- macospet1
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^ Darn it, beat me to the punch..
http://jalopnik.com/5943936/gran-turismo-gamer-will-race-this-insane-deltawing-car-in-the-us
Don't look now, but two of our favorite recent motorsports stories are combining into one peanut butter/chocolate mecha of total dominance. Nissan just announced the DeltaWing race car will compete in the U.S. under command of none other than Gran Turismo Academy racer Lucas Ordoñez later this year.
The Nissan-powered Deltawing looks like a rocket but actually propels itself around the competition with a tiny four-cylinder engine. It gets its speed from a mixture of low weight and clever engineering, which means fewer pitstops for tires and fuel. Unfortunately, that wasn't enough to keep it on the track earlier this year when it was bumped off by a Toyota.
Now Nissan wants to try its hand again at endurance racing by entering it in Petit Le Mans the American Le Mans Series finale at Road Atlanta in October. It's only 10 hours instead of 24 (thus the Petite) but it's still a challenging course.
Because the drivers of the DeltaWing are all pursuing other commitments, Nissan racing is turning over the car to Spanish student/Gran Turismo gamer Lucas Ordoñez, who won Nissan's GT Academy online race and has proven himself to be a strong racer in non-virtual reality.
Ordoñez will be joined by 2011 ALMS PC class champion Gunnar Jeannette racing an "unclassified" entry. This means it won't necessarily compete in any class but will instead race against the whole field. Depending on how it goes, the new car could race a full season in 2013.
We like this on so many levels.
http://us2.campaign-archive1.com/?u=3b7e85c6366c81b77d50b7b35&id=0c8ceb09d8
NASHVILLE, Tennessee, Monday, 17 September, 2012: The team behind the radical Nissan DeltaWing has declared it has unfinished business'... after being unceremoniously shoved out of the famous Le Mans 24 Hours in June, the fans' favorite will return to finish what it started at the event's little brother, Petit Le Mans.
The pioneering, dart-shaped Nissan DeltaWing, which captured the hearts of 240,000 Le Mans 24 Hour fans three months ago, will race again at next month's American Le Mans Series (ALMS) finale at Road Atlanta, USA, on October 17-20. Led by Nissan Americas Vice-Chairman, Bill Krueger, the announcement took place today at Nissan's North American headquarters in Nashville, Tennessee.
Designed and built with the aim of completing the famous Le Mans 24 Hours using half the fuel and half the tires of contemporary sports prototypes, Nissan DeltaWing was forced to retire from the French endurance classic after six hours, following contact with another car.
The plight of Japanese Nismo racing driver, Satoshi Motoyama, who tried heroically to repair the impact damage by the side of the Le Mans circuit for 90 minutes before having to admit defeat, garnered massive support for the team from fans, whose demands for it to return to the racetrack will now be satisfied.
Existing race commitments mean that all three of the Nissan DeltaWing Le Mans drivers - Motoyama, Marino Franchitti and Michael Krumm - are unavailable for the prestigious Petit Le Mans ALMS race. Nissan's original GT Academy champion, Spaniard Lucas Ordonez is set to race the car at Road Atlanta, along with American Le Mans Series 2011 PC class champion Gunnar Jeannette.
Darren Cox, General Manager, Nissan in Europe, said: "Le Mans was a huge success for us - the car did everything we wanted it to do and more, proving that the pioneering technology we were testing in the world's most public laboratory works and is a viable option for the future sustainability of motorsport.
"The only thing that didn't go our way was the way the race ended for us, which was entirely out of our control. Because we'd proven the technology worked, it was hard to be too disappointed, but we were blown away by the level of support and goodwill that came our way from the fans so now we feel we owe it to them to race again.
"I'm very proud that Lucas will get his chance in the car - the GT Academy is a major innovation in motorsport that is making the elitist sport of motor racing genuinely accessible to everyone, including those who do not have access to big budgets and sponsorship. Lucas is living proof that the innovation works."
"We're thrilled to welcome Gunnar to the Nissan DeltaWing team. He is a former American Le Mans Series champion and knows Road Atlanta like the back of his hand so he is the perfect addition to the squad."
The team believes that the 1,000-mile, 10-hour Petit Le Mans race is the perfect event for Nissan DeltaWing to not only give fans the race finish they desire, but also demonstrate its prowess on a more traditional track, as opposed to the high-speed Le Mans circuit, which also utilizes public roads.
The announcement comes as it is revealed that, as part of the ALMS merger with the other major sportscar series, GRAND-AM Road Racing, provision will be made for Nissan DeltaWing within the regulations of the resulting new championship, scheduled to start in 2014.
The Nissan DeltaWing team comprises a group of key partners including American motorsport entrepreneur Don Panoz; project patron and Indy 500 team owner, Chip Ganassi; designer Ben Bowlby; tire supplier, Michelin, Dan Gurney's All-American Racers organisation and Duncan Dayton's Highcroft Racing team.
Panoz, who was behind the Project 56' organisation under whose banner the DeltaWing started its journey to Le Mans, said: "Petit Le Mans has built up a reputation as one of the largest sportscar races in the world. Every section of the Nissan organisation has supported this car and I think the fans will love getting to see what Racer magazine called a gamechanger'.
"The DeltaWing can race in the 2013 American Le Mans Series and it is part of the merger agreement for ALMS and GRAND-AM. Safety and performance standards have to be achieved, but it needs to be reviewed. For 2014, the new series would incorporate Daytona prototypes, Le Mans prototypes, and maybe even a DeltaWing."
Meanwhile, Nissan DeltaWing's visionary creator, Ben Bowlby, said: "At Petit Le Mans, we will get the chance to show the US fans just how cool this car is but also the chance to prove that it works on a much tighter, twistier road course, rather than the flat-out, 300kmh, Le Mans-style racetrack. It's important for us to gain in lap experience, testing and driver feedback and really validate the whole concept."
Nissan became a founding partner in the DeltaWing project in March this year and the team then faced a major challenge to get the experimental Nissan DeltaWing car and its specially-developed 1.6-litre DIG-T Nissan engine, ready for the gruelling Le Mans 24 Hours.
The project provided a test bed for Nissan to develop future innovations that can be filtered into the Company's global motorsport programmes as well as future road products. This will continue to be the case at Petit Le Mans, with new technology being trialled during the race and further development work being carried out by partner, Michelin, on its bespoke tires, specially built for the Nissan DeltaWing.
Based on fuel consumption and tire wear data taken during more than six hours of running at Le Mans, the car was on course to achieve its goal of completing the 24 Hours using half the fuel and half the tires of its fellow entrants.
Data taken from a standard LMP2 car at Le Mans indicated that it used 2,350 litres of fuel and changed tires every 300 miles, chewing through nine sets. And, while the LMP2 car had a fuel consumption level of 5mpg, Nissan DeltaWing was running at 10.7mpg.
Leading innovation in motorsport is nothing new for Nissan - its GT Academy has proven to be a genuine stepping stone from games console sofa to a real motor racing career. Ordonez was the inaugural winner in 2008; three years later, he made his Le Mans 24 Hours debut, scoring a podium in an LMP2 class dominated by Nissan engine power. The Spaniard was among a handful of drivers who tested Nissan DeltaWing during its rapid development process earlier this year.
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- 3,915
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- gdwest1
Yeah, that was insane. Apparently if you're LMP1 you dont have to move over?
On the other hand, he lost by 28 seconds, but...
How much time did he waste playing in the grass?
Im a huge Conquest fan, but still... on several occasions he could have helped himself.
On the other hand, he lost by 28 seconds, but...
How much time did he waste playing in the grass?
Im a huge Conquest fan, but still... on several occasions he could have helped himself.
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I´m not a fan of the Deltawing at all. Props to the drivers who dare to race it. I don´t think it´ll be a very long lived project though. Once it has a real shunt, the organizers will demand either withdrawal or major safety tweaks. And major safety tweaks will ruin the car and make it pointless.
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And who knows what will become of Grand-ALMS.
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