The Le Mans General Discussion Thread

[hawkeye122]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/103499

Apparently GTE and GT3 need to combine... not if Ratel has say in it though.
The FIA wants to combine them, keep the best of both worlds.

Frankly, this is stupid. GTE should be kept around for Factory teams who want to prove that their car is best. GT3 should be the low-cost entry-level class.

In my opinion, we should rename GTE to GT2. Cut out the GTE-Am BS, and just run GT2/GT3 classes in the WEC/ALMS. Imagine the grid swell if they just came out and said "Yup, GT3. Come and get it" and still retained Corvette, BMW, Porsche, Ferrari, and Aston Martin in GTE.

 

[vfrmaverick]

I agree with the youtube response by highcroft. The gtc porsche had lost it, he was going to spin wether the DW was there or not. Now, that the DW driver could have foreseen the porsche spining or could have given more room is plausible but at racing speed reactions its hard to play armchair driver and justify oneself.

I dislike the car alot, but even I say this has nothing to do with the car itself. Driver error on multiple parts to blame.

 

[Jav]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/103499

Apparently GTE and GT3 need to combine... not if Ratel has say in it though.
The FIA wants to combine them, keep the best of both worlds.

Frankly, this is stupid. GTE should be kept around for Factory teams who want to prove that their car is best. GT3 should be the low-cost entry-level class.

In my opinion, we should rename GTE to GT2. Cut out the GTE-Am BS, and just run GT2/GT3 classes in the WEC/ALMS. Imagine the grid swell if they just came out and said "Yup, GT3. Come and get it" and still retained Corvette, BMW, Porsche, Ferrari, and Aston Martin in GTE.

Uhh...GT3 cars are faster and more developed than GT-E cars...

I agree with the youtube response by highcroft. The gtc porsche had lost it, he was going to spin wether the DW was there or not. Now, that the DW driver could have foreseen the porsche spining or could have given more room is plausible but at racing speed reactions its hard to play armchair driver and justify oneself.

I dislike the car alot, but even I say this has nothing to do with the car itself. Driver error on multiple parts to blame.

It was impossible for Gunnar to see the car spinning from where he was, he didn't even saw it wich is why he was waving WTF at the Porsche...

 

[hawkeye122]

Was unaware of that. Then flop them around? Give GTE cars more power or something...

Wait, weren't they saying that they were going to allow the SLS GT3 to run in GTC, who use GT3 cars?

 

[vfrmaverick]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/103499

Apparently GTE and GT3 need to combine... not if Ratel has say in it though.
The FIA wants to combine them, keep the best of both worlds.

Frankly, this is stupid. GTE should be kept around for Factory teams who want to prove that their car is best. GT3 should be the low-cost entry-level class.

In my opinion, we should rename GTE to GT2. Cut out the GTE-Am BS, and just run GT2/GT3 classes in the WEC/ALMS. Imagine the grid swell if they just came out and said "Yup, GT3. Come and get it" and still retained Corvette, BMW, Porsche, Ferrari, and Aston Martin in GTE.

Id find it easier to rename current GT2->GT1, and move GT3/AM->GT2. And we still get to retain familiar sounding tiers. GT1 being a more factory oriented grid and GT2 being more privateers. LMP wise just keep LMP1/2 and maybe modify the DPs to either run LMP2 pace or give them their own class anyways

 

[vfrmaverick]

It was impossible for Gunnar to see the car spinning from where he was, he didn't even saw it wich is why he was waving WTF at the Porsche...

Hence why i didnt blame him for being there. Sheesh, its almost as if you didnt bother reading what I said. But ill rephrase it for you. He didnt know what was to happen but he also could have tried to make the pass with more room, not being about to push the porsche off the track.

 

[Jav]

Hence why i didnt blame him for being there. Sheesh, its almost as if you didnt bother reading what I said. But ill rephrase it for you. He didnt know what was to happen but he also could have tried to make the pass with more room, not being about to push the porsche off the track.

Yeah, He was a bit selfish there and left very little room for the Porsche... But then again LMP drivers are always running GT cars off the track!

 

[hawkeye122]

So I'm curious, why did F1 and the... Pre-ILMC stop the use of Ground Effect? Wasn't it dangerous if you hit a curb too fast? And now were back to the Deltawing, which uses ground effect. Am I missing something? Because if not, lets allow LMP1 to start using ground effect, see how fast we can get them to go.

 

[Jav]

They did it because of the danger of the cars blowing over when the cars went over bumps, wich Mercedes and Porsche where so kind to demonstrate at LeMans.
Sorry to sound so negative about the car, but the DW is just a marketing exercise that refuses to die.

 

[RACECAR]

Well, this is interesting:


Whats so ironic about this? See if you can figure out the manufacter Johnny drove for Before he drove for the Corvette team.



Also Jav, the ground effects were banned long before the flips of the Mercedes and Porsche. It was the flat bottoms and the tendency to cause lift when behind another car that caused the flips. Notice that all the flips had the car in question right behind another one.

 

[CodeRedR51]

What I saw from the vid was a Porsche losing it and the Delta Wing in the wrong place at the wrong time. But saying he could have given more room? Please. There was at least 2 feet between them before the Porsche swerved over...

 

[Jav]

Also Jav, the ground effects were banned long before the flips of the Mercedes and Porsche. It was the flat bottoms and the tendency to cause lift when behind another car that caused the flips. Notice that all the flips had the car in question right behind another one.

You are correct sir! My mistake there.

 

[Hun200kmh]

http://www.highcroftracing.com/galleries/petit-le-mans-wednesday-testing-gallery/

Some very impressive pictures there ...


EDIT - Idiot Porsche driver showing the finger to Jeannette

 

[Furinkazen]

7g impact for the DW.

 

[VspecZR1GT2RS89]

That's one heck of a crash right there. I'm glad that the DeltaWing is not totaled and the Highcroft can fix it before the race and I'm glad that Gunnar is okay.

And seeing that chaos, I have to say that the DW and the Porsche drivers were at fault IMO. Gunnar could've moved over to clear the out-of-control Porsche and the Porsche driver could've let off the throttle and got off the track while slowing down to avoid the DW and the others. But as they say, wrong place, wrong time.

 

[Mac K]

That 2nd last photo is hilarious.

 

[sumbrownkid]

Uhh...GT3 cars are faster and more developed than GT-E cars...

You sure about that? Because at the last Le mans race the GTE cars were averaging the mid 3:50s in qualifying, and as a barometer for comparison, the GT1 cars of 2008 did upper 3:40s in qualifying.

That's pretty effing quick for supposedly weaker cars, but is there a direct comparison for GTE vs GT3 cars? Because so far all we can compare them on is on price.

 

[vfrmaverick]

its nice to finally see the underside of the dw. sad it had to come this way

 

[Speedster502]

You sure about that? Because at the last Le mans race the GTE cars were averaging the mid 3:50s in qualifying, and as a barometer for comparison, the GT1 cars of 2008 did upper 3:40s in qualifying.

That's pretty effing quick for supposedly weaker cars, but is there a direct comparison for GTE vs GT3 cars? Because so far all we can compare them on is on price.

Best comparison I've found is from when ELMS visited Donington this year - FIA GT1 (actually GT3 cars but you get the point) visited a month or so ago too. To be fair I've compared a GT3 Ferrari against a GTE Ferrari, so atleast the cars are on a relatively similar chassis.

GTE - Ferrari F458 Italia - JMW Motorsport - 1:29.328 (fastest GTE car at the event)
GT3 - Ferrari F458 Italia - AF Corse - 1:28.729 (fastest GT3 car was a 1:27.746)

So, yes GT3 cars are quicker. But also more expensive generally due to the numerous upgrade packages that are released to keep the car on the same performance as all the other cars.

 

[G.T.Ace]

http://www.highcroftracing.com/galleries/petit-le-mans-wednesday-testing-gallery/

Some very impressive pictures there ...


EDIT - Idiot Porsche driver showing the finger to Jeannette

Heartbreaking. 8( I love the DeltaWing, too bad they are so unlucky all the time.

 

[CodeRedR51]

... I have to say that the DW and the Porsche drivers were at fault IMO. Gunnar could've moved over to clear the out-of-control Porsche and the Porsche driver could've let off the throttle and got off the track while slowing down to avoid the DW and the others. But as they say, wrong place, wrong time.

I may be the only person watching the video and thinking differently. The DW was clearly alongside the Porsche, and gave it plenty of room. You can clearly see the Porsche swerve to the right. Whether he was losing it or just didn't know the DW was there, the accident could have been avoided and I don't think the DW driver was at any fault.

 

[R0ssingt0n]

Regardless of who's fault it was I think it was way out of order for the porsche driver to put his middle finger up... No matter how funny that picture is!

 

[Mt. Lynx]

Best comparison I've found is from when ELMS visited Donington this year - FIA GT1 (actually GT3 cars but you get the point) visited a month or so ago too. To be fair I've compared a GT3 Ferrari against a GTE Ferrari, so atleast the cars are on a relatively similar chassis.

GTE - Ferrari F458 Italia - JMW Motorsport - 1:29.328 (fastest GTE car at the event)
GT3 - Ferrari F458 Italia - AF Corse - 1:28.729 (fastest GT3 car was a 1:27.746)

So, yes GT3 cars are quicker. But also more expensive generally due to the numerous upgrade packages that are released to keep the car on the same performance as all the other cars.

Actually GTE cars are about €100 000 more expensive to buy, and the running costs are higher aswell, simply because of the manufacturer involvment.

The way I understand things, the FIA/ACO wants a single GT class for all cars to race in. If that is the case, they basically only have two options:

1. Adapt to the GT3 rules, BOP and all.
2. Rewrite the rules completely.

If they do the latter, they better make sure everybody follows the rules to the letter, and not allow for any waivers and such.

 

[RACECAR]

EDIT - Idiot Porsche driver showing the finger to Jeannette

Nothing says moron like flipping off the guy you just wrecked 👎

 

[Hun200kmh]

Indeed!

In other news, Rebellion made P1 in today's practise (damp conditions). Gap to the Muscle Milk HPD was ... 0.32 seconds!!!

I think the lucky Petit Le Mans fans are going to be presented with a mighty 10 hour long LMP1 battle, neither Rebellion nor Muscle Milk will settle for anything less than victory!

 

[Jav]

I may be the only person watching the video and thinking differently. The DW was clearly alongside the Porsche, and gave it plenty of room. You can clearly see the Porsche swerve to the right. Whether he was losing it or just didn't know the DW was there, the accident could have been avoided and I don't think the DW driver was at any fault.

No you're right, there was no way for Gunnar to see or anticipate the Porsche loosing it, he could've hold on and pass after the crest, but this is a competitive enviroment after all, if you're gonna do that on a race you might as well park it.

Regardless of who's fault it was I think it was way out of order for the porsche driver to put his middle finger up... No matter how funny that picture is!

100% agreed, though that's a pretty scary place to loose it like that and we don't know what was going trough his mind at the moment, he might as well be saying FU I lost it... this is the only sport in wich you are in real danger of loosing your life, so we shouldn't judge their reactions after such a scary incident.

 

[G.T.Ace]

Plus, the DeltaWing was way quicker there.
Definitely the fault of the Porsche driver, no doubt.

 

[Jav]

Plus, the DeltaWing was way quicker there.
Definitely the fault of the Porsche driver, no doubt.

How can it be his fault when he never saw the damn thing in the first place??

Indeed!

In other news, Rebellion made P1 in today's practise (damp conditions). Gap to the Muscle Milk HPD was ... 0.32 seconds!!!

I think the lucky Petit Le Mans fans are going to be presented with a mighty 10 hour long LMP1 battle, neither Rebellion nor Muscle Milk will settle for anything less than victory!

I hope that evil HPD holds up with none of the drama we've seen this season!!

 

[Hun200kmh]

What's with Highcroft cars and Porsche cars at Petit Le Mans anyway? I wasn't sure so I went to check where was that "how to entirely destroy one HPD car in seconds" video and ... it was PLM too.

For those that don't remember. PLM 2009, ALMS race:

 

[Jav]

What's with Highcroft cars and Porsche cars at Petit Le Mans anyway? I wasn't sure so I went to check where was that "how to entirely destroy one HPD car in seconds" video and ... it was PLM too.

For those that don't remember. PLM 2009, ALMS race:

Road Atlanta is an awesome track, but it can be extremely problematic in traffic if the parties involve aren't patient or cautious enough. That crash looks like the Porsche was coming out of the pits and Scott tought he could cut ahead and instead drove straight into him.
Pit exit is very very dangerous here.