The McLaren F1... erh... P1 Thread

[Kent]

There's no accounting for taste.
Some don't like the McLaren emblem designed into the headlamps, I thought it was brilliant.
True there is no Need for it but there is definitely something to be said about a designer incorporating this idea, if nothing else it sparks conversation and that's generally one of the goals for a manufacturer.

 

[Horde_R35]

PD i dont know what do you have to do , but WE want this one on GT5!! Dont forget the original engine/exaust sounds too (remarking the HSV...).

 

[JohnBM01]

Really, I think this car is flippin' gorgeous. The McLaren F1 is a legend. This car could become or lead up to be its own legend in the 21st Century. I am pretty impressed with certain stats on this car based on a Road and Track magazine video I saw on the P1 earlier today.

 

[TVC]

Just about every supercar like this is in the .3 to .4 range.

The downforce number is very good though. If it's true though, this car should have 2600-3000 total lbs of downforce at 125 mph. If it comes in around 2500 lbs, it will be incredible. We might see skidpad g above 1.1 where most others max out a 1 - 1.05. Maybe even 1.2, depending on radius. Although 1300 lbs at 125 mph does sound really high for just being at the front. Either a typo or one serious front diffuser.

I find this hard to believe. 3000 pounds of down force at 125 mph on a street car? The Lister Storm LMP, a full race car with a huge wing, generates 2600 pounds of down force at 150 mph. The Bentley Speed 8 generates 3094 pounds of down force at 150 mph with its high down force configuration. There must be something I do not understand?

The F1 was never built to be the fastest road car. It just happened to be.

This was discussed earlier in the thread. The F1 was never the fastest road car in a straight line or around a track. It's fast but never was the fastest.

McLaren really seems to have raised that bar with the P1, I wonder if Porsche or Ferrari will have any response since their cars in direct competition to the P1 will be out soon.

 

[alexlam24]

The P1 looks so good. Me gusta x10

 

[RACECAR]

Still don't see what everyone's complaining about. The front end is a bit overwrought, but that's because they had to cheekily work the McLaren logo into the headlights. The proportions are near-identical to the Zonda, the drop in the greenhouse is similar to the Zonda, but less severe. The whole cut-away naked bodywork is similar to work done on the Aventador concept, which, so far as I recall, nobody really hated.

I feel bad for McLaren. Do something conservative, like Ferrari and Lamborghini did with the 430 or Gallardo, and they're slammed for being unimaginative. Go all out, using proper proportions and fancy styling, CF all around, and LED lighting to enable freeform front and rear lights,and people call it ugly.
And yet they hold the McLaren F1, with headlights and tail-lights from the industrial parts bin (and they look entirely the part) but with nearly the same proportions, and very similar detail work on the sides, as a paragon of design.

This is why Chevrolet and Nissan can use nothing but round tail-lights on their 21st Century supercars.

Isn't this basically the dilemma for all Supercar makers? If anything, it just tends to tell me how extremely picky people are, they're damned if they do and damned if they don't.

 

[Exorcet]

I find this hard to believe. 3000 pounds of down force at 125 mph on a street car? The Lister Storm LMP, a full race car with a huge wing, generates 2600 pounds of down force at 150 mph. The Bentley Speed 8 generates 3094 pounds of down force at 150 mph with its high down force configuration. There must be something I do not understand?

At this point, it seems as though it was a typo. 1300 lbs is the total downforce (125 mph is the only speed I've seen connected to this number). This is more reasonable, but still very high.

For comparison to other road cars, the Viper ACR made 1000 lbs at 150 mph. At 150 mph, the P1 will make 1872 lbs.

 

[TVC]

At this point, it seems as though it was a typo. 1300 lbs is the total downforce (125 mph is the only speed I've seen connected to this number). This is more reasonable, but still very high.

For comparison to other road cars, the Viper ACR made 1000 lbs at 150 mph. At 150 mph, the P1 will make 1872 lbs.

Yeah that sounds a lot more reasonable and possible. The car does look like it would generate more down force than the ACR.

I just found it hard to believe a street legal road car not derived from a true race car, even one as great as the P1, was making nearly as much down force or even more than LMP cars.

I hope my last post didn't sound like it was personally against what you said in the post I quoted, I just found it hard to believe it was making 1300 pounds of down force in the front alone.

 

[Omnis]

P1 = Pone.

Pwn.

 

[Nessy]

^Perfect and most fitting equation.

 

[gorsad]

P1 = Pone.

Pwn.

And as to what I think of the car, I like it in a sort of "5 year old boy's wallpaper" way. Love those rear headlights.

 

[Exorcet]

Yeah that sounds a lot more reasonable and possible. The car does look like it would generate more down force than the ACR.

I just found it hard to believe a street legal road car not derived from a true race car, even one as great as the P1, was making nearly as much down force or even more than LMP cars.

I hope my last post didn't sound like it was personally against what you said in the post I quoted, I just found it hard to believe it was making 1300 pounds of down force in the front alone.

Well the thing is, race cars are limited. This is what let the Saleen S7 road car generated more underbody downforce than the Saleen S7 race car. FIA rules weaken the race car's diff. Road cars have no limits, so it's possible that a road car generates more downforce.

Actually I wonder how much downforce the Caparo T1 generates. I don't know if the McLaren will be able to top it.

 

[ussr]

This car would never aim the Veyron and Koenigsegg numbers, but to be fair it looks amazing. Better than those two.

 

[Eric.]

P1 = Pone.

Pwn.

Also = Position 1. Not even necessary to test it.

 

[TVC]

Well the thing is, race cars are limited. This is what let the Saleen S7 road car generated more underbody downforce than the Saleen S7 race car. FIA rules weaken the race car's diff. Road cars have no limits, so it's possible that a road car generates more downforce.

Actually I wonder how much downforce the Caparo T1 generates. I don't know if the McLaren will be able to top it.

Yeah you are likely right. The Speed 8 and Lister LMP do appear to be limited but still I would be amazed that a standard, non-race car derived road car could generate more down force than either of them. It's possible but it would be quite an achievement.

For comparison the Allard J2x generates 5500 pounds of down force at 150 miles per hour and almost 10,000 at 200 mph. Same goes for most of the 1992 group c cars. the Nissan NPT-91 generates 9231 pounds of down force at 200 mph but "only" 2945 of that is in the front. If the ratio remains the same then that means when it has 5192 pounds of down force at 150 mph it is making 1656 pounds of down force in the front alone.

That's why I think 1300 in the front sounds to good to be true on the McLaren P1.

Is it possible that they didn't include lift in that number?

According to Wikipedia the T1 makes 1,930 pounds of down force at 150 mph.

I just watched a video and the guy made it sound like it was 1,300 pounds in total. So like you said it must have been a typo.

 

[Exorcet]

Is it possible that they didn't include lift in that number?

That's not really possible as downforce and lift are the same thing.

If they didn't care about honesty, I guess they could sum the forces on all surfaces that have a CP less than 0 and normal with a negative vertical component and then sum the forces on all surfaces with a CP greater than zero and a normal with a positive vertical component to get "downforce". However, that would be completely meaningless number and if used in marketing material, would be an outright lie.

There are worse ways to "cheat" with aerodynamic forces. I can think of a way for them to claim around 500,000 lbs of downforce and not really be wrong, but it's even more ridiculous than what I described above.

 

[Dan_]

There's no accounting for taste.
Some don't like the McLaren emblem designed into the headlamps, I thought it was brilliant.
True there is no Need for it but there is definitely something to be said about a designer incorporating this idea, if nothing else it sparks conversation and that's generally one of the goals for a manufacturer.

This. I think it's absolutely brilliant that they've made a car as striking as the P1, specially after the 12C earning so much criticism on the matter of looking too 'generic', which I disagree.

Surely, it's not something to drool over the keyboard, but the pronounced hips at the back and compact shape leave a lot more potential to be explored.

 

[bzking23]

there can be no such thing as an f1 successor, it is too great to be succeeded. The P1 will make its own name for itself and it will be aided by the success of the other two McLaren's.
The f1 is a god, the mp4 a king, and the P1 is a Prince who can become a king and a god.

 

[Exorcet]

Well, the F1 may look better, but I think this car already overshadows the old one. The F1 was fast, but it wasn't the ultimate track car. The P1 could be, this car might even give the Caparo T1 a bit of a fight. It will either remain near the top of performance for quite a while, or it will cause an escalation of road car performance and we'll be living in the mid 90's again where GT1 race cars were street legal. I like the sound of the latter.

 

[Stotty]

I'm starting to get acustomedused to the styling... and the more I look at it the more I like it... particularly some of the detailing. Though it's clearly no direct F1 successor.

Regarding downforce...

Although unlikely due to the ride height constraints a road car has, It's not completely out of the question that this might generate similar downforce levels to an 80's group C car or a 90's LMP. Technollogy and the understanding of aero has progressed so much over the past 20 years... in F1 for example, there have been numerous rule changes designed to reduce areo levels, yet the teams keep finding ways to generate more or at least keep levels constant even with less wing area.

Plus road cars aren't bound by the same rules... moveable aero surfaces aren't outlawed or controlled for example and there's no restrictions on under body shape.

I'd take an early punt at this breaking all sorts of road car track records.

 

[Prototyp3]

After seeing the car I'm still a little torn. Overall I like it, but what continually bothers me is the lack of central driver seating. For a car that is, for all intents and purposes, the successor to the F1, I feel like that is such an integral part of the design.

It was just another feature that made the F1 so amazing. It was the fastest car, it was beautiful, it sounded amazing, it didn't have a ton of mechanical features and required the driver to tame it through skill not technology, and finally, the driver sat directly in the center which was the perfect cherry on top of a total and complete package.

Everything about the F1 added up to create a mystique and beauty that I feel is still unmatched to this day.

 

[sumbrownkid]

Yeah you are likely right. The Speed 8 and Lister LMP do appear to be limited but still I would be amazed that a standard, non-race car derived road car could generate more down force than either of them. It's possible but it would be quite an achievement.

For comparison the Allard J2x generates 5500 pounds of down force at 150 miles per hour and almost 10,000 at 200 mph. Same goes for most of the 1992 group c cars. the Nissan NPT-91 generates 9231 pounds of down force at 200 mph but "only" 2945 of that is in the front. If the ratio remains the same then that means when it has 5192 pounds of down force at 150 mph it is making 1656 pounds of down force in the front alone.

That's why I think 1300 in the front sounds to good to be true on the McLaren P1.

Is it possible that they didn't include lift in that number?

According to Wikipedia the T1 makes 1,930 pounds of down force at 150 mph.

I just watched a video and the guy made it sound like it was 1,300 pounds in total. So like you said it must have been a typo.

The downforce of road cars may exceed that of race cars, but seeing that the average race car is a lot lighter than the average road car, wouldn't that "lack" of downforce balance out actually?

 

[Exorcet]

The downforce of road cars may exceed that of race cars, but seeing that the average race car is a lot lighter than the average road car, wouldn't that "lack" of downforce balance out actually?

Yes.

Extremely rough estimate, the effective grip is:

Car weight + downforce / car weight

The Caparo T1 probably doesn't make as much downforce as the P1, but the ratio of weight to mass is probably a lot higher.

Going the low mass route also helps with drag as drag is reduced for a given weight/mass when mass is lower.

 

[DavidtheGT20]

I like everything about this car except for the front and it should have middle driver's seat like the original F1. I can't wait for the F1 successor!

 

[masterrawad]

v8

 

[daan]

Another thread not required. Merged.

 

[Keef]

It sounds so...American. Weird.

 

[Stotty]

Looks a lot less flashy with the camo on and the proportions look really, really good. I thought it was going to look huge, like an Aventador, but it looks far leaner than that.

Sound is OK, but does it even pass 2-3k revs?

 

[RACECAR]

Looks kinda better seeing it move now as opposed to those pictures.

 

[Hyped]

I like the sound, but I wish they would rev it up higher in that video. And I agree with Keef, when I first heard it, it didn't sound too European.