The New Direction of Gran Turismo

[ImaRobot]

So basically some more setup settings, thats it?

You asked for examples, and you got them. He clearly stated these are just the simple ones he can think of off the top of his head. If you want more, I'm sure just asking will gets you a ton more information. The person you're questioning has been making video evidence of these things for quite a while now.

So having fixed settings means it has lower fidelity?

That's not what I got from this. The fact that it's not doing these things is what makes it lower fidelity in comparison to the competition.

Your own everyday car has low fidelity to real life if you dont change settings?

How are you even coming to these conclusions? You very much can make these things available to you if you choose to modify a car in such a manner. Some things can even be done to any car right from the get go, if you'd like. Like changing Tire Pressure, for instance.

One thing is doing those things, and the other doing those things well. How you know those games do all that well?

Which has nothing to do with the point being made. The fact that GTS isn't doing these things, automatically puts the fidelity at a lower level in comparison.

Only focus on what GT dont has, but doesnt have anything over the others?

Well we are discussing GTS here, aren't we? Either way, how did you come to that conclusion when all you've done is look at these few posts in the GTS forum, of all places.

 

[Scaff]

So basically some more setup settings, thats it?

Nope, seems you didn't bother to read or understand.

So having fixed settings means it has lower fidelity?

When they should be adjustable in reality, yes.

Your own everyday car has low fidelity to real life if you dont change settings?

Not what I said at all. However if a sim doesn't give you the ability to adjust what can be adjusted in reality then its of a lower level of fidelity.

Can you name a single car that in reality you can't adjust the tyre pressure on?

One thing is doing those things, and the other doing those things well. How you know those games do all that well?

Comparisons to reality, I've done more than a few across a range of titles.

That how, for example, I know that GTS doesn't model self aligning torque reduction correctly. I know how it works in terms of the physics, I know what it feels like in reality and GTS doesn't model it correctly. It should be a loss of steering resistance that makes the wheel go light, not a sudden oscillation and juddering of the steering.

Only focus on what GT dont has, but doesnt have anything over the others?

I've already said that it varies depending on title and that it terms of graphics GTS is out in front, however as a package GTS doesn't

That's twice in a single post you have failed to take on board what I actually said in favour of what you wanted me to have said.

No, I haven't got access to the beta yet, sadly, thats why I'm questioning all that.

And yet your tone strongly suggests that you are not willing to believe those who have had access, and have run a good number of comparisons against other titles.

Which of the titles in question do you have experience with and to what degree?

 

[NixxxoN]

Nope, seems you didn't bother to read or understand.


When they should be adjustable in reality, yes.


Not what I said at all. However if a sim doesn't give you the ability to adjust what can be adjusted in reality then its of a lower level of fidelity.

Can you name a single car that in reality you can't adjust the tyre pressure on?



Comparisons to reality, I've done more than a few across a range of titles.

That how, for example, I know that GTS doesn't model self aligning torque reduction correctly. I know how it works in terms of the physics, I know what it feels like in reality and GTS doesn't model it correctly. It should be a loss of steering resistance that makes the wheel go light, not a sudden oscillation and juddering of the steering.


I've already said that it varies depending on title and that it terms of graphics GTS is out in front, however as a package GTS doesn't

That's twice in a single post you have failed to take on board what I actually said in favour of what you wanted me to have said.


And yet your tone strongly suggests that you are not willing to believe those who have had access, and have run a good number of comparisons against other titles.

Which of the titles in question do you have experience with and to what degree?

Yeah, maybe everything you said is true to a degree...
What I dont understand is the permanent bashing I see here concerning GT games... like GT is always terrible, the rest always good. Thats what I usually see. And I thought we were in GT Planet, GT Sport section.
If we get serious about this, we'll find that all those games you said are pretty bad because no one makes you feel G forces at all.
Driving with or without G forces (real life and videogame) is quite a lot different, you know it.

 

[ImaRobot]

What I dont understand is the permanent bashing I see here concerning GT games... like GT is always terrible, the rest always good. Thats what I usually see. And I thought we were in GT Planet, GT Sport section.

From what I recall is that these types of arguments turn up because it's usually someone saying how GT is better than something else, or when someone says its doing something it isn't, most of the time. Go to the other forums, they get equal amount of discussions brought up around them, even considering every other community is significantly smaller here.

That's not to say that I don't think there are people that come in just to try to start a fight, but for the most part, it doesn't come across that way.

If we get serious about this, we'll find that all those games you said are pretty bad because no one makes you feel G forces at all.

How does that make a game bad?

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Yeah, maybe everything you said is true to a degree...
What I dont understand is the permanent bashing I see here concerning GT games... like GT is always terrible, the rest always good. Thats what I usually see. And I thought we were in GT Planet, GT Sport section.
If we get serious about this, we'll find that all those games you said are pretty bad because no one makes you feel G forces at all.
Driving with or without G forces (real life and videogame) is quite a lot different, you know it.

Criticism =/= bashing. You still seem to have a problem understanding this.

Go to any of the other game-specific subsections. There will be similar criticisms there. Assetto Corsa had a lousy career mode. PCARS had a bunch of glitches at launch. Forza's had very inconsistent wheel implementation. DiRT Rally had its own much-discussed physics issues (try pulling a donut).

Why are you so bothered by any comparison where GT doesn't come out ahead?

 

[skazz]

And likewise criticism of weaknesses doesn't mean we won't be buying GTS or any of the other pending titles.

Each game has something unique to offer, and going into it with your eyes open and willing to accept the flaws as well as the positives is the only way to avoid disappointment.. nothing is perfect.

 

[Scaff]

Yeah, maybe everything you said is true to a degree...
What I dont understand is the permanent bashing I see here concerning GT games... like GT is always terrible, the rest always good. Thats what I usually see. And I thought we were in GT Planet, GT Sport section.

The section we are in doesn't matter. I also simply replied to a post stating that GTS was high fidelity with a comment that disagreed in some areas that it was.

It was you that brought other titles into it, when you asked who did it better. You don't get to cry foul about other titles when you brought them into the conversation.

I've been critical of every title I've reviewed, my AC review ended with a recommendation not to touch it unless you wanted a hot lap sim, SLRE has an excellent physics engine in an ugly package that needs a PS4 Pro to run at its best, Dirt Rally had issues with vehicle weight and D4 fixed that while adding in new issues around physics and making the package uglier, Pcars was bug and glitch filled at launch and DC plain didn't work online.

I can keep going on these as well if you like, but what you don't get to do is infer that I am only critical of the GT series, because that's simply nonsense.

If we get serious about this, we'll find that all those games you said are pretty bad because no one makes you feel G forces at all.
Driving with or without G forces (real life and videogame) is quite a lot different, you know it.

And?

While I can't feel g-forces, I am fortunate enough to have a tactile set-up on my rig which does help to recreate the more minor forces acting on the car, from impacts, curbs, engine vibrations, etc.

In that regard the order from best to worst would be:

PCars > AC > Dirt > GTS > F1 2016 > DC > SLRE > WRC6

Oh and you seem to have forgotten to answer a question I posed to you.

Which of the titles in question do you have experience with and to what degree?

 

[PzR Slim]

Yeah, maybe everything you said is true to a degree...
What I dont understand is the permanent bashing I see here concerning GT games... like GT is always terrible, the rest always good. Thats what I usually see. And I thought we were in GT Planet, GT Sport section.
If we get serious about this, we'll find that all those games you said are pretty bad because no one makes you feel G forces at all.
Driving with or without G forces (real life and videogame) is quite a lot different, you know it.

I drive with simulated g forces in my Motion rig in PCars, Assetto Corsa, RFactor 2, Dirt Rally, etc. It adds something to the experience, however, not having g forces in a game does not in anyway stop you from making an objective comparison of it to real life.

 

[NixxxoN]

Criticism =/= bashing. You still seem to have a problem understanding this.

Go to any of the other game-specific subsections. There will be similar criticisms there. Assetto Corsa had a lousy career mode. PCARS had a bunch of glitches at launch. Forza's had very inconsistent wheel implementation. DiRT Rally had its own much-discussed physics issues (try pulling a donut).

Why are you so bothered by any comparison where GT doesn't come out ahead?

Not in here but in life in general, I find tiresome to see people complain all the time.
Bothered? Another tiresome thing is to go to the GT section to read about GT and GT only and so many times you have to read "x game is better than GT because this or that" its so tiresome to me, reminds me of youtube comments section.

 

[Scaff]

Not in here but in life in general, I find tiresome to see people complain all the time.
Bothered? Another tiresome thing is to go to the GT section to read about GT and GT only and so many times you have to read "x game is better than GT because this or that" its so tiresome to me, reminds me of youtube comments section.

Your complaining about a direction you lead the conversation in!

And which ones does? [insert your favorite game here]

 

[NixxxoN]

Your complaining about a direction you lead the conversation in!

That was ironical, obviously it wasnt meant to lead the conversation in there...

 

[Silver Arrows]

These arguments will never die, will they?

 

[Scaff]

That was ironical, obviously it wasnt meant to lead the conversation in there...

Well no, it wasn't obvious at all, but nice try.

And you have still forgotten to answer the question, it wasn't difficult

 

[NixxxoN]

Well no, it wasn't obvious at all, but nice try.

And you have still forgotten to answer the question, it wasn't difficult

I suppuse you have played all those games more than me, thats what you want to hear ? I tried most of them but mainly play only GT because I usually dont have time for anything else.

 

[Scaff]

I suppuse you have played all those games more than me, thats what you want to hear ? I tried most of them but mainly play only GT because I usually dont have time for anything else.

I asked because its rather relevant to the discussion, I have to say for someone who seems to demand specifics off others, you don't hold yourself to anything like the same standard.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Not in here but in life in general, I find tiresome to see people complain all the time.
Bothered? Another tiresome thing is to go to the GT section to read about GT and GT only and so many times you have to read "x game is better than GT because this or that" its so tiresome to me, reminds me of youtube comments section.

Again, you misconstrue criticisms as complaints.

GT doesn't exist in a vacuum. It can — and will — be compared to other games in the genre by people who, y'know, play games in the genre. Some aspects it does better than the competition. Some it does not.

You're also (willingly?) ignoring all of the positive comments around the boards. If you want an echo chamber of nothing but praise, you'll have to look elsewhere. Constructive criticism should be welcomed: in fact, it very much is, considering Polyphony actively invited it with the beta.

Like @skazz said, being critical doesn't also mean people will not play these games, or enjoy them. Here are my thoughts from the beta from another post, as an example:

I've had a fun enough time with the beta, though the physics are actually not a major concern for me. GT hasn't been the pack leader there for ages, and I don't think that's ever actually been a major setback in terms of sales success. It's considered realistic enough by most, and that's probably good enough. I don't want to say it's so easy that anybody can jump in and get to grips with some of the cars — this isn't NFS, and I saw some horrifying laps at E3 — but I think PD is smart in aiming for the middle-ground, while still leaning towards sim. There are enough hand-holding aids available to make it pretty approachable, too.

My bigger concern is the penalty system. As is, it's... less than ideal, and from the evidence of the beta, hasn't really bred better driving etiquette. I suppose the argument there is that it is a beta, and people are testing to find the limits of the system. We'll see come October if it translates to the masses, then. Considering the game is being marketed as such an esports-focused title, that aspect needs to be nailed down day one, IMO.

As ever with racing games, it's a lot more fun when you're racing with people you either know, or are at least on the same level of speed and sportsmanship. I had a handful of really great races, a good chunk of them with people I met through the beta.

I'm a little sad that Fanatec wheel support wasn't included in the beta. I would've liked to get a more direct comparison between the game and the rest of the genre! On pad, it's a fair bit better resolved than GT6, though it doesn't yet match Forza for controller implementation in my eyes. In terms of physics, it feels like an evolution of GT6's engine, while rumble feedback still feels muted, even on max settings.

 

[Johnnypenso]

These arguments will never die, will they?

I find the healthy back and forth between informed and logical GTP members quite entertaining and informative. There are a lot of people here that have deeper knowledge of many aspects of racing and driving simulation than I do and many have more real life experience than me as well. In the rare instance that someone hops in to moan and cry from an emotional rather than a reasoned perspective, it is distracting but not at all that common. But to answer your question, no. As long as there are games to be compared, comparisons will be made, some logical, some not.

 

[Silver Arrows]

I find the healthy back and forth between informed and logical GTP members quite entertaining and informative. There are a lot of people here that have deeper knowledge of many aspects of racing and driving simulation than I do and many have more real life experience than me as well. In the rare instance that someone hops in to moan and cry from an emotional rather than a reasoned perspective, it is distracting but not at all that common. But to answer your question, no. As long as there are games to be compared, comparisons will be made, some logical, some not.

Sure, healthy discussion is good, but some of this is leaping into fanboy territory, and god knows we already have enough of those dick measuring contests with regards to which games are better graphically, and which games are more realistic in terms of handling models.

 

[The_Lurker]

I mostly have issues with the obvious lack of a decent and well-done career mode. The reason i bought every Gran Turismo to date has nothing to do with realism and graphics: It has to do with the progression. Starting with a small compact japanese car and ending with a Formula One machine was always extremely rewarding, and i'm pretty sure this game will have none of that: There are only a few road cars, the rest being race cars, unable to be tuned. I jumped a boat a few weeks ago: Forza Horizon 3 is truly an awesome game, in spite of it's flaws.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Sure, healthy discussion is good, but some of this is leaping into fanboy territory, and god knows we already have enough of those dick measuring contests with regards to which games are better graphically, and which games are more realistic in terms of handling models.

Some games are better graphically than others and some have more realistic physics. Not sure why anyone would be afraid to have an honest discussion about it.

 

[glassjaw]

I mostly have issues with the obvious lack of a decent and well-done career mode. The reason i bought every Gran Turismo to date has nothing to do with realism and graphics: It has to do with the progression. Starting with a small compact japanese car and ending with a Formula One machine was always extremely rewarding, and i'm pretty sure this game will have none of that: There are only a few road cars, the rest being race cars, unable to be tuned. I jumped a boat a few weeks ago: Forza Horizon 3 is truly an awesome game, in spite of it's flaws.

See you're new here. Welcome!

Yeah, you'll find many people have been waiting for ages for a game like GT Sport to shed that old-school structure, while for others it's what has kept us coming back consistently over the last 20 years, even if the recent games haven't been as wholly immersive or enjoyable as in the PS1/PS2 heyday. I definitely fall into the latter camp, so I can relate. Forza Motorsport, ironically enough, has become the only game really carrying that torch anymore.

 

[NixxxoN]

Again, you misconstrue criticisms as complaints.

GT doesn't exist in a vacuum. It can — and will — be compared to other games in the genre by people who, y'know, play games in the genre. Some aspects it does better than the competition. Some it does not.

You're also (willingly?) ignoring all of the positive comments around the boards. If you want an echo chamber of nothing but praise, you'll have to look elsewhere. Constructive criticism should be welcomed: in fact, it very much is, considering Polyphony actively invited it with the beta.

Like @skazz said, being critical doesn't also mean people will not play these games, or enjoy them. Here are my thoughts from the beta from another post, as an example:

Sorry, I still think its ****ing tiresome and some here have some interest to do permanent comparisons, I think its not normal
I used to play Call of duty a lot many years ago, and I never thought "medal of honor this, medal of honor that", "battlefield this, battlefield that" when I played it.
Learn to enjoy the games just how they are for god sake

 

[Tornado]

Posting almost exclusively to complain about people talking about things you have no actual experience with and no demonstrable knowledge of being the more "normal" behavior, presumably.

 

[Scaff]

Sorry, I still think its ****ing tiresome and some here have some interest to do permanent comparisons, I think its not normal

Comparing two similar things is not normal?

I think its a fairly normal thing to do, and it would seem that many others agree.

I used to play Call of duty a lot many years ago, and I never thought "medal of honor this, medal of honor that", "battlefield this, battlefield that" when I played it.

Good for you; again I thing you will find many, many others did.

Learn to enjoy the games just how they are for god sake

How about you don't tell others what they can and can't do.

This is the second thread in a short period of time you have effectively attempted to force your view onto as the only one, if you don't want to discuss these kind of comparisons then that's fine, but don;t then get into the middle of them and moan about it.

This is after all a discussion forum, if that doesn't work for you then its not exactly the site or the other members issue is it.

 

[PJTierney]

• I don't play Gran Turismo to collect cars.
• I play Gran Turismo to race.

Gran Turismo Sport is ticking all the right boxes for me, as it places a heavy emphasis on clean, fun, close racing with human opponents. After years of "bumper cars" with console racing games it's about time somebody took the Multiplayer environment seriously and tried to craft an experience where getting shoved off the road is a rare occurrence.

 

[JulesDennis]

Sorry, I still think its ****ing tiresome and some here have some interest to do permanent comparisons, I think its not normal
I used to play Call of duty a lot many years ago, and I never thought "medal of honor this, medal of honor that", "battlefield this, battlefield that" when I played it.
Learn to enjoy the games just how they are for god sake

Sorry about what I'm gonna say here but you my friend do the same thing you say others do.You have posted a lot of "GTS is far better than..-add title here-" doing comparisons with other games,even though you did not actually -said it yourself- had a chance to test the beta.
So calling people out for posting their opinion the same time your did wrote that (example)

not as realistic as assetto maybe... but pcars? lol

when you dont even have played GTS its a little weird,dont you think?

 

[doblocruiser]

Is there any info available if PS+ is needed for all types of GT:S online racing?

 

[Scaff]

Is there any info available if PS+ is needed for all types of GT:S online racing?

It wasn't for the beta, but I would say it will almost certainly be required for the final game, as only Free to play titles can currently be played online without PS+.

 

[JulesDennis]

Is there any info available if PS+ is needed for all types of GT:S online racing?

Its just my opinion (no info on that) but I think that PS plus is needed (similar to any other PS4 game).

 

[doblocruiser]

It wasn't for the beta, but I would say it will almost certainly be required for the final game, as only Free to play titles can currently be played online without PS+.

ts just my opinion (no info on that) but I think that PS plus is needed (similar to any other PS4 game).

For the BETA PS+ wasn't needed because they needed to test their infrastructure (understable not to put their online services behind a paywall for testing purposes) but I assume as well PS+ is needed for the final game, maybe not for all online stuff though. As I suggested in another post, maybe official tournaments will require PS+ while the regular online play and shootouts could be PS+ free?