- 11,660
- GTP_Orido
The video is still private when clicking on the link 
The No Driving Assist Tuner Challenge
- Thread starter FastAShecK
- 326 comments
- 15,820 views
FastAShecK
(Banned)
- 599
- Road to Inferno
The video is still private when clicking on the link
Sucks cuz I'm on my iPad and I can't find any setting or reason why the video is private, it's freeking me out, I'm gonna try and upload it to photobucket or someplace else any suggestion? The video is on my iPad.
Got it uploading to Photobucket now, first video I've put on photobucket, hope this works out
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dr_slump
Premium
- 7,425
- Switzerland
- the_dr_slump / GTP_dr_slump
Probably because it automatically logs you in on youtube. Happens if you click the "remember me" option.
No matter what I do, the rear tyres are always at their limit while the front tyres would still have some grip left for better braking. It's not necessarily the absolute strength, it's more the balance which is messed up.
- 459
- N'Ireland
- TRL_CAGE
I havent the equipment to upload replays yet an i duno what you guys have done times etc but with the RGT i did a 2:06.142 on my 4th lap.. Great Tune ziz.. very odd testing someone else tune, but anyway thumbs up 
i have no other tuners on FR List so i cant test them.. p.s what do i need to upload these replays??
an i duno what you guys have done times etc but with the RGT i did a 2:06.142 on my 4th lap.. Great Tune ziz.. very odd testing someone else tune, but anyway thumbs up i have no other tuners on FR List so i cant test them.. p.s what do i need to upload these replays??
- 3,131
- IL, USA
- DigitalBaka
- DigitalBaka587
I think Roj has Praiano's Yellowbird hosted. Or was it the Miura.....? 
- 12,639
- paracuru
- praiano63
I think Roj has Praiano's Yellowbird hosted. Or was it the Miura.....?
Yes , VTiRoj have my Yellow bird and dr_slump my miura.
👍
dr_slump
Premium
- 7,425
- Switzerland
- the_dr_slump / GTP_dr_slump
MiuraI think Roj has Praiano's Yellowbird hosted. Or was it the Miura.....?
I think Jonnypenso has the YB, but I could be wrong.
- 12,639
- paracuru
- praiano63
Need to inform in post 2 that my Miura is shared by VTiRoj. I can't add some new friends till day 23 +-
If new testers that are not in my friend list need to test my yellowbird , somebody will have to build it too....
Thanks again.
praiano63
Yellow Bird
Muira Shared by VTiRoj
Sorry
Muira Shared by VTiRoj
I don't remember about the YB with johnny..... I have it but i can't add new FR.
- 1,847
- London
- Ziz528
dr_slump
Premium
- 7,425
- Switzerland
- the_dr_slump / GTP_dr_slump
YYEEEEEEESSSSS!!!!!!!!!
Rojjie's M5 finally did it!!! It broke the 🤬 2:07 mark in its last lap!!!
Dear god, I'm dead now. But it's nice to see a 2:06 time.
It's such a heavy car and the rear brake doesn't seem to help at all.
The car starts doing weird things with stronger rear brakes though; I'm quite sure it's due to very soft front settings.
All in all not the most enjoyable drive, but we shouldn't expect too much of a super heavy car like the M5.
Rojjie's M5 finally did it!!! It broke the 🤬 2:07 mark in its last lap!!!
Dear god, I'm dead now. But it's nice to see a 2:06 time.
It's such a heavy car and the rear brake doesn't seem to help at all.
The car starts doing weird things with stronger rear brakes though; I'm quite sure it's due to very soft front settings.
All in all not the most enjoyable drive, but we shouldn't expect too much of a super heavy car like the M5.
FastAShecK
(Banned)
- 599
- Road to Inferno
Can anybody build my car n share it for me please?
- 1,184
- Glass Village
- OK8_
Yes, and because of that I already started testing your RGT yesterday. Really good car, I'll post a proper review of it once I've driven all of the cars.
- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
That Yellowbird on my profile is not Praiano's it's a hybrid, Yellowbird on an RGT chassis if memory serves. I don't think I've even driven it yet.
All this talk of no ABS BB's always makes me wonder. I have seen guys before post about using balances like 5/4, 7/2 etc. I've tried to use them with my DFGT and G27 and always locked them up with less than 50% pedal travel. As I lowered the BB I found I could use more pedal which allows for much more accurate braking. I can still lock up at 2/0 or 3/0 on most cars, so I figured what's the point of going to 7/2? Breaking distances aren't shorter with any figure higher than what creates lockup.
As for Rido's 9/8, not a chance. Heavy breathing on the pedal would make it lockup. Got to be a huge difference in equipment for that kind of BB to even be functional.
- 11,660
- GTP_Orido
With 9/8 BB, on comfort tires, I can go up to 50-60% red bar filled before lock up on higher speed and around 25-35% on low speed ( less than 50mph ) - using DS2 stick face button - circle for gas, triangle for brake. A total BB of 10 would allow up to 75-80% red bar before lock up on medium speed, 5/3 BB would be very ideal for hard braking, at high speed I can have 100%, then decreasing to 75%-60% at low speed.
I don't know how this red brake bar percentage translated to pedal - how much travel or how deep before reaching 25% red bar ? As long as the driver is comfortable to modulate the brake with the pedal at quarter/half travel, then high BB is possible without ABS.
I used to have old PC T2 Thrustmaster wheel, and I used to modulate the brakes when playing GP3, I could modulate with only 50-75% pedal travel at max before locking up - a bit hard at first though - it was sensitive to pressure.
This is why with no ABS, BB is very personal and not tune related anymore
- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
Thank my stick for making high BB possible and easy to manage. I always use the HUD red brake bar for reference of brake force, it indicates how much total BB value used from how high it fills before lock ups occur at certain speed + tire combo.
With 9/8 BB, on comfort tires, I can go up to 50-60% red bar filled before lock up on higher speed and around 25-35% on low speed ( less than 50mph ) - using DS2 stick face button - circle for gas, triangle for brake. A total BB of 10 would allow up to 75-80% red bar before lock up on medium speed, 5/3 BB would be very ideal for hard braking, at high speed I can have 100%, then decreasing to 75%-60% at low speed.
I don't know how this red brake bar percentage translated to pedal - how much travel or how deep before reaching 25% red bar ? As long as the driver is comfortable to modulate the brake with the pedal at quarter/half travel, then high BB is possible without ABS.
I used to have old PC T2 Thrustmaster wheel, and I used to modulate the brakes when playing GP3, I could modulate with only 50-75% pedal travel at max before locking up - a bit hard at first though - it was sensitive to pressure.
This is why with no ABS, BB is very personal and not tune related anymore
I believe the point is, why use only 50% brake travel when you can use closer to 100%? Locking up at 51% gives you no better braking than locking up at 98%, but being able to get to 98% before lockup gives you a much wider range in which to operate and therefore more accuracy.
The G27 pedals as far as I can tell are completely linear. About 2" or so of travel and you reach 100% on the brake bar about 1/8" from the end.
FastAShecK
(Banned)
- 599
- Road to Inferno
Consider you MAY be using more pedal travel then necessary or would be used IRL in these circumstances, lowering the BB to allow more liberal pedal application. I'm NOT saying this is the case, but something to consider.
I'm working on uploading my video to show how much actual braking I do with no lock ups at all, I'm interested in hearing others experience, seems nobodies driven my car yet so I have no idea how she going to handle for others.
FastAShecK
(Banned)
- 599
- Road to Inferno
That tidbit about the G27 pedal is interesting and may be the problem.
My DFGT won't hit 100% until I hit max travel, and that's more then 2" travel. I gotta push hard near the end too. 25% travel gives 25% red bar on the screen, 50 = 50, 75 = 75 and so on.
If you get 100% brake indicated on the screen but are not pushing the pedal all the way, the problem is the pedals and the lower BB value is to accommodate the G wheels pedals. That could be a common trait of the G25 and 27, sounds like it may be the case. Also 2" of pedal travel is not that much.
I opened my pedal set and cleaned out the insides of hair and dust (dog and cat) it's been much more presise since. I think dirty sensors may be why others using the DFGT feel 0 ABS and a unmodified set of DFGT pedals are near impossible to drive with yet that's just the way I drive.
My DFGT won't hit 100% until I hit max travel, and that's more then 2" travel. I gotta push hard near the end too. 25% travel gives 25% red bar on the screen, 50 = 50, 75 = 75 and so on.
If you get 100% brake indicated on the screen but are not pushing the pedal all the way, the problem is the pedals and the lower BB value is to accommodate the G wheels pedals. That could be a common trait of the G25 and 27, sounds like it may be the case. Also 2" of pedal travel is not that much.
I opened my pedal set and cleaned out the insides of hair and dust (dog and cat) it's been much more presise since. I think dirty sensors may be why others using the DFGT feel 0 ABS and a unmodified set of DFGT pedals are near impossible to drive with yet that's just the way I drive.
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- 6,380
- United Kingdom
- RoJJieE
- mb6roj
YYEEEEEEESSSSS!!!!!!!!!
Rojjie's M5 finally did it!!! It broke the 🤬 2:07 mark in its last lap!!!
Dear god, I'm dead now. But it's nice to see a 2:06 time.
It's such a heavy car and the rear brake doesn't seem to help at all.
The car starts doing weird things with stronger rear brakes though; I'm quite sure it's due to very soft front settings.
All in all not the most enjoyable drive, but we shouldn't expect too much of a super heavy car like the M5.
I didn't know the M5 had a 2:06 in it.
Nice time. 👍Yeah I had problems with 3/1. I figured longer braking distances would be better than trying to "fix" the handling to accommodate stronger rear brakes.
- 1,289
- Salt Lake City
- Ferraridude308
I know I'm nowhere close to Rido's insane BB's, but I do know I'm higher up than most.
I race a 4/3 setup on all of my cars as default. I can go to about 75% brake pressure on my G27, then back off as I slow down, to about 15-25% depression before turning in. I learned to drive NoABS with a DFGT that'd been worn out by 2 years of abuse. I had 2 bungee cords wrapped around my brake pedal because it depressed way too easily for me to be consistent with NoABS.
I like to have a lot of bite when I brake, and I like to always have a little 'reserve' braking power. What I mean, is that when in a tight racing scenario, I like to be able to press the pedal a little harder if necessary, to make sure my car slows down enough that I don't tap the guy in front, but I may lock up one or two tires.
Another reason why I choose this brake balance as default, is that I like to steer with my brakes. Last summer, when I made the NoABS plunge, I didn't use light FR's on sports tires like most. I took the plunge to 650PP @ Nordschleife in the CLK LM, on RH tires. I developed 4/3, because the rear brakes had just enough bite, so that I could rotate the rear of the car through the corners. I steered minimally, and used minimal lockups on the rears when the corners cambered, so that the car would almost drift through every corner. I spent about 2 weeks doing this, so it stuck with me, and that's my driving style. (As some of you who have raced me can see that I like to kick out the rear of my car.)
Recently, in a racing series, I've gone down to 4/2, just because when the racing gets tough, as the same reason stated by Johnny, I like to have more room to modulate my braking amount.
This was 4/3 at High Speed Ring in a 1600kg Maserati GT, going about 160mph. As you can see, I initially go 90% pressure, but back off quickly.
Will edit post with more examples when the videos finish uploading.
I race a 4/3 setup on all of my cars as default. I can go to about 75% brake pressure on my G27, then back off as I slow down, to about 15-25% depression before turning in. I learned to drive NoABS with a DFGT that'd been worn out by 2 years of abuse. I had 2 bungee cords wrapped around my brake pedal because it depressed way too easily for me to be consistent with NoABS.
I like to have a lot of bite when I brake, and I like to always have a little 'reserve' braking power. What I mean, is that when in a tight racing scenario, I like to be able to press the pedal a little harder if necessary, to make sure my car slows down enough that I don't tap the guy in front, but I may lock up one or two tires.
Another reason why I choose this brake balance as default, is that I like to steer with my brakes. Last summer, when I made the NoABS plunge, I didn't use light FR's on sports tires like most. I took the plunge to 650PP @ Nordschleife in the CLK LM, on RH tires. I developed 4/3, because the rear brakes had just enough bite, so that I could rotate the rear of the car through the corners. I steered minimally, and used minimal lockups on the rears when the corners cambered, so that the car would almost drift through every corner. I spent about 2 weeks doing this, so it stuck with me, and that's my driving style. (As some of you who have raced me can see that I like to kick out the rear of my car.)
Recently, in a racing series, I've gone down to 4/2, just because when the racing gets tough, as the same reason stated by Johnny, I like to have more room to modulate my braking amount.
This was 4/3 at High Speed Ring in a 1600kg Maserati GT, going about 160mph. As you can see, I initially go 90% pressure, but back off quickly.
Will edit post with more examples when the videos finish uploading.
FastAShecK
(Banned)
- 599
- Road to Inferno
On your G27 does it hit full brake on the screen before full depression.
- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
If driven it for testing already...nice car
The DFGT is about 2.5" of travel, the G27 about 2". It's only the last 1/8" of so that's full pedal, which is 6% of the travel distance. I don't think that has anything to do with it, it's just that the higher the BB the less travel you have to work with, regardless of what pedals you use. I've done noABS with both the DFGT and G27 and the G27 is far superior and much more accurate for me.
When you go from one car where you can use the whole pedal in braking and get real comfortable with it, then go to another where you're locking up at 40% you have to completely reorient your braking foot to the new car. Must be easier for some people because I don't find it that easy...
FastAShecK
(Banned)
- 599
- Road to Inferno
There lies my point, think about it. 2.5 vs 2 is a 25% increase in travel, on top of you don't even get 2 full inch of travel. That's quite a bit less travel distance overall. If you give the G27 6% dead zone, thats about 30% more travel in DFGT then a G27. That actually makes allot of sense to me and explains quite a bit.
From my experience the pedals on the DFGT leave much to be desired however they don't require compensation in the brake balance to accommodate a much reduced amount of travel to work with.
By lowering the BB you effectively stretch out pressure across the reduced travel to make it easier to work with. It's like exponential settings on a RC transmitter and servo used for both steering and throttle/brake, a near must on high power hobby grade RC's.
On the flip side using those low BB settings with the DFGT pedals requires waaaaay too much travel on the brake pedal, and to get the job done I'd have to bury the pedal in every hard corner.
That means low BB on the DFGT will be crap for both of our driving styles
while low BB is perfectly suited to the G27. When you go from one car where you can use the whole pedal in braking and get real comfortable with it, then go to another where you're locking up at 40% you have to completely reorient your braking foot to the new car. Must be easier for some people because I don't find it that easy...
I always take a few laps to get used to new cars and lowering the rear BB is often a first step as the default 5/5 with 0-ABS is not good for most cars. I usually start at 6/3 and work from there.
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- 1,289
- Salt Lake City
- Ferraridude308
I haven't tested, but I'm doing some driving tonight, so I'll check. 👍
EDIT: I tested it, and it does, but very slightly. I'm talking about maybe the size of "_" that underscore. Its not noticeable, as you have to hold your foot very carefully if you even want watch the on-screen brake change. However, there is some travel in the gas pedal, you have to depress it about "__" that far before it registers, but it registers the correct amount, which is odd. Definitely a huge step above my DFGT though.
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- 11,660
- GTP_Orido
True for wheels - where pedal travel is shorter; as for me it, all also comes down to the different input device I have. There's no issue with high BB on my stick face buttons, in fact I like it with shorter travel to lock up as I had to press really - really hard to get 100% input pressure. High BB makes it easier on my thumb on longer drive as I don't get the drawbacks of shorter travel - I can modulate any amount of pressure in a whim
. Then, there is also that point when a lot lower BB would make the car brake performance worsen, I often set 0/0 or 1/0 or classic cars like pre 70's Japanese/US/British vintage cars. On comfort hard tires, these BB are perfect to simulate the brake level of their real life counterparts, from high speed, the brakes needs longer distance to scrub speed even with constant 100% brake input.
I believe the total BB value where maximum brake performance achieved on a certain car/tire combo varies between 4 to 12. Weather + worn tire also affect braking performance ( wet + worn out tire : nightmare )
I have an old video - one of the first from last year :
Ferrari 458 stock at Monza rain, CM tire, grip real, tire wear on, 7/5 BB.
Ferrari 458 Italia at Monza Rain, 2:07.xxx
The BB in that particular video allowed for quite late braking in the rain on CM tire and I was very comfortable with the amount of brake needed until very close to lock up - 1st chicane on 1st and 2nd lap. The car also did got easier to lock up in the rain, I was modulating the brake at 70-75% at most ( not travel but the red bar )
I never knew G27 has short pedal travel
, must be a real pain, I always thought that to get 100% brake ( red bar HUD ), burying the foot would be needed and the travel/resistance relation would be like in real car ( harder as it gets closer to full travel )
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- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
There lies my point, think about it. 2.5 vs 2 is a 25% increase in travel, on top of you don't even get 2 full inch of travel. That's quite a bit less travel distance overall. If you give the G27 6% dead zone, thats about 30% more travel in DFGT then a G27. That actually makes allot of sense to me and explains quite a bit.
From my experience the pedals on the DFGT leave much to be desired however they don't require compensation in the brake balance to accommodate a much reduced amount of travel to work with.
By lowering the BB you effectively stretch out pressure across the reduced travel to make it easier to work with. It's like exponential settings on a RC transmitter and servo used for both steering and throttle/brake, a near must on high power hobby grade RC's.
On the flip side using those low BB settings with the DFGT pedals requires waaaaay too much travel on the brake pedal, and to get the job done I'd have to bury the pedal in every hard corner.
That means low BB on the DFGT will be crap for both of our driving styles
I always take a few laps to get used to new cars and lowering the rear BB is often a first step as the default 5/5 with 0-ABS is not good for most cars. I usually start at 6/3 and work from there.
As I mentioned earlier, I have both wheels, and slightly shorter throw and all, the G27 is far superior to the DFGT in terms of accuracy. The movement of brake/throttle is 100% linear. With the DFGT it was close but not quite 100% accurate. Driving without ABS is easier with the G27 and I use the exact same settings I used with the DFGT, 2/0, 3/0, 3/1 etc. Interesting to note that all the cars I've tested so far all have typical brake balances that I would normally use in setting up a car, but for one, and it's only slightly off (1 too high in the rear) and they were all pretty fast and relatively easy to drive. Either they are all wrong...or...💡💡
Now that I've got 50 laps in without ABS, I'll go back and test Rido's car and yours if I can find out where it's on share.
The BB in that particular video allowed for quite late braking in the rain on CM tire and I was very comfortable with the amount of brake needed until very close to lock up - 1st chicane on 1st and 2nd lap. The car also did got easier to lock up in the rain, I was modulating the brake at 70-75% at most ( not travel but the red bar )
I never knew G27 has short pedal travel
Two things. I see most of the braking at 50% or less strength in the video most of the time and the stock springs in the G27 are not very progressive. You need an aftermarket kit for that and I intend to get it at some point, but I find the stock pedals pretty good anyway, far superior to the stock DFGT, although they ended up pretty good when I modded them.
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- 4,803
- Dearborn, MI
- MotorCtyHamilton
I bought the Nixom brake pedal mod for my G27 and love it. It provides three different levels of braking. It provides a much better feel for how hard you are onto the brakes. Well worth the $35 or so.
FastAShecK
(Banned)
- 599
- Road to Inferno
I think your not getting what I'm saying.... 2/0 & 3/0 work we'll with a G27, they SUCK with a DFGT so if you used those settings on both OBVIOUSLY your going to find the G27 better
No they are NOT wrong, just probably using G27 wheels
not DFGT's for tuning If you have the DFGt set up like that your brake pedal on the DFGT has to work twice as much to get the same end result pressure.
If that's how people have had the BB set up (running tunes tuned with G27's) when running a DFGT it's no wonder the pedals got a bad rep, user error.
So hard to build one? Maybe you can share it? It seems my car is the only one un-driven and nobody is sharing. My fault as I don't have PSN access, but I would of though it not such a problem to get a lil help on that...
I won't big-up the DFGT pedals but at least they have full pedal travel, and don't require to be accommodated in the BB settings. That is a downer for the G27.
Basically tells me that the wheel used when Tuning is important to BB settings. If a Tune was tuned with a G27 and a DFGT used to drive it then the BB should be raised to accommodate the wheel change. If a tune was tuned with a DFGT and a G27 is used to drive it then the BB should be lowered to accommodate it.
It also tells me that when I see low settings like 2/0, if a G27 is used for tuning the low setting is to accommodate the brake pedal, and not the tuner simply using low settings to make her easier to drive in a cheesy way sans ABS.
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