The non-muscle American car thread (READ THE OP)

[The87Dodge]

So on topic includes discussions about American cars that aren't muscle cars or hold rods, as long as you aren't questioning their performance. Got it.

It's fine to question their performance, but please don't start what went on before again.

I think you just need to not bring up non-American cars.

*cough* *cough*

You need to stop. Post something on topic or else I kindly ask you to leave.

 

[VXR]

How is it not on topic? The thread itself has a poll asking which country makes the best looking cars, how is that any different to discussing other cars, especially in light of some highly myopic hyperbole.

 

[The87Dodge]

How is it not on topic? The thread itself has a poll asking which country makes the best looking cars, how is that any different to discussing other cars, especially in light of some highly myopic hyperbole.

It's off topic because the title clearly says, "The non-muscle American car thread". I added the pole so I can know what country makes the best cars. That was never meant to be a part of the discussion.

 

[Sage Ages]

The Spirit is higher performing, though, but many refuse to believe it since the M3 E30 is so overrated.

You have anything to support that? So far, you've just rambled on about it's power and barely touched any other aspects.

 

[The87Dodge]

You have anything to support that? So far, you've just rambled on about it's power and barely touched any other aspects.

The M3 E30's have 197 and 215 horsepower. Spirit has 224. 30 more horsepower is substantial enough for it to win against the M3's, even though it does not handle as good.

 

[Razor440]

And I thought someone comparing Herbie to K.I.T.T. was a stupid argument.

I'm just going to fund some Kickstarter to put a 2JZ from a twin turbo Supra in a '69 Camaro, so people you have something to really talk about one of these days.

How about we actually make this topic...I don't know...truthful? Enter the 1979 Dodge Magnum.

Well...it's actually a B-Body Mopar like a Charger but it's styled like a Monte Carlo...and i've posted this on one too many topics but these are cool as hell to look at.

 

[VXR]

The M3 E30's have 197 and 215 horsepower. Spirit has 224. 30 more horsepower is substantial enough for it to win against the M3's, even though it does not handle as good.

Your logic is great. A Golf GTi has 200bhp and a Lotus Elise 111S from 1998 has 143bhp, so therefore the Golf is magnanimously faster.

It doesn't matter what you intended the discussion to be, as non-muscle American cars don't exist in a vacuum.

 

[TS050]

30 more horsepower is substantial enough for it to win against the M3's

So despite the fact that the M3 is over 100kg lighter and is FR (meaning less understeer), the Spirit will win?

Ok then.

And anyway, 30 horsepower really isn't anything.

 

[VXR]

It's a real shame I couldn't dig up any track times for the Spirit, so we could see just how well it does in that environment.

 

[AnthonyD1993]

2JZ Camaro has already been done as has 2JZ C3 Corvette. The Camaro got a hell of a lot of flak when it was done (Car was a numbers matching 396 car before 2JZ was installed). The Corvette- not so much because C3 Vettes as a whole were kind of trash and nobody cared. Of course, the Camaro was also done in 2008 and the C3 was recent (attitude's can change over time), and again, most people could care less about a C3 Corvette in the first place.

Also Chevrolet Citation. Because Chevrolet Citation.

 

[The87Dodge]

So despite the fact that the M3 is over 100kg lighter and is FR (meaning less understeer), the Spirit will win?

Ok then.

And anyway, 30 horsepower really isn't anything.

Ok, I can only say this one more time before I officially explode.

The fact that you say "30 horsepower doesn't mean anything" just proves how little you know about cars. Thirty horespower is certainly enough for the Spirit to beat the M3, despite the handling.

100kg lighter isn't that big of a deal. And your "FF means understeer" nonsense? Give me a break, I'm so tired of people just assuming that FF always equals understeer. The Renault Clio 16v Cup, not the Clio V6 can handle better than almost all of it's FR counterparts. The Spirit R/T (just like the E30 M3) was masterfully engineered and only 100kg heavier, so handling characteristics wouldn't be that much worse.

 

[TS050]

The fact that you say "30 horsepower doesn't mean anything" just proves how little you know about cars.

AHAHAHHAAHAHHAHAAHHAAHHAHAHAHAAA


Shut up.

Your stupid 30 horsepower argument means nothing.

Let's look at the BMW M4 and the Lexus RC-F. The M4 has about 50 horsepower less than the RC-F, so by your logic, it's slower, right?

Wrong.

Because the RC-F weighs at least 200kg more than the M4, it's slower. Do you not know what POWER TO WEIGHT RATIOS are?

And the only reason FF's don't produce as much understeer today is because of their trick differentials; hence why cars like the Megane RS are stupidly quick around incredibly technical tracks like the Nurb. I'm pretty sure a car from the 80's/90's isn't going to have a crazy good differential in it to reduce most of the understeer to make it quicker than a car that is...ready? Over 100kg lighter.

 

[The87Dodge]

AHAHAHHAAHAHHAHAAHHAAHHAHAHAHAAA


Shut up.

If anyone needs to "shut up" here, it's you. Not only are you in denial, you are resorting to unkind words.

AHAHAHHAAHAHHAHAAHHAAHHAHAHAHAAA


Your stupid 30 horsepower argument means nothing.

Let's look at the BMW M4 and the Lexus RC-F. The M4 has about 50 horsepower less than the RC-F, so by your logic, it's slower, right?

Wrong.

Oh yeah, it means nothing, okay. A kei car with 31 horsepower obviously is slower than a kei car with 63 horses. With low powered cars, more horespower matters. With supercars like the M4 and RCF, it doesn't as much.

Because the RC-F weighs at least 200kg more than the M4, it's slower. Do you not know what POWER TO WEIGHT RATIOS are?

And the only reason FF's don't produce as much understeer today is because of their trick differentials; hence why cars like the Megane RS are stupidly quick around incredibly technical tracks like the Nurb. I'm pretty sure a car from the 80's/90's isn't going to have a crazy good differential in it to reduce most of the understeer to make it quicker than a car that is...ready? Over 100kg lighter.

I know what power to weight ratio is. If I didn't, I would not before arguing that a 100kg difference doesn't matter. A 400kg difference, let's say, definitely matters. It would diminish acceleration and the car will not handle good.

1992 wasn't that long ago. It wasn't one of those atrociously engineered 70's crapboxes.

Seriously, drop the attitude.

 

[Razor440]

2JZ Camaro has already been done as has 2JZ C3 Corvette. The Camaro got a hell of a lot of flak when it was done (Car was a numbers matching 396 car before 2JZ was installed). The Corvette- not so much because C3 Vettes as a whole were kind of trash and nobody cared. Of course, the Camaro was also done in 2008 and the C3 was recent (attitude's can change over time), and again, most people could care less about a C3 Corvette in the first place.

Also Chevrolet Citation. Because Chevrolet Citation.
View attachment 519839

Nobody has done a 2JZ Citation, though! But that wouldn't...upset anyone.

The Spirit R/T (just like the E30 M3) was masterfully engineered and only 100kg heavier, so handling characteristics wouldn't be that much worse.

Even though I love oddball American cars, how is a Spirit going to be better than an E30?

This would make little sense, but I can see the potential in a Neon, not a Spirit to defeat the likes of an E30 M3.

Plus, STRIPES FACTORY OPTION!

Edit: if this was Gran Turismo 2, yeah but nononononononoononono

 

[DurWinning]

Meh. Figured I'd leave this here.

 

[Razor440]

1992 wasn't that long ago. It wasn't one of those atrociously engineered 70's crapboxes.

Seriously, drop the attitude.

"atrociously engineered 70's crapbox" Hmm... I'm assuming you mean Vega, Pinto, and Gremlin....yeah...

Well, your not going to see a Cosworth do a burnout. Sad, but that's because maybe it'll do nice in the corners.

It's a hatchback. If you can put an SVT Lightning here, why not a Hornet with it's back end chopped off?

The Pinto however, i'll wont give you an example. But why not Fairmont?

 

[TS050]

1992 wasn't that long ago.

Clearly you're not aware of how much technology has progressed in the last 20 years.

Seriously, drop the attitude.

Oh, sorry 'dad'.

I'll drop the attitude when you accept the fact that the Spirit would not beat an E30 M3. It's illogical.


I've stayed relatively nice throughout this, and not willing to get my first warning points over something as menial and dumb as this.

 

[AnthonyD1993]

Fairmonts have become some go-to cars for drag racing as budget built street-strip cars since they're still stupid cheap and are a part of the Fox Body platform. They make epic sleepers because nobody takes them seriously like they do with their Mustang chassis mates and often can be found for even cheaper prices than the Mustangs (which are usually rather cheap themselves).

 

[Razor440]

1995 Ford Taurus SHO

1963 Chrysler Turbine

1995 Lincoln L2K Concept (still exists, as is!)

1997 Dodge Copperhead Concept :tup:👍👍 I haven't seen one in real life, but when I do I will be looking at it as long as I can because I love it!

1997 Dodge Dakota Sidewinder.

Have fun with your spirit

 

[The87Dodge]

First of all, I'd like to congratulate everyone who is actually posting pictures of cars, keep it up!

Clearly you're not aware of how much technology has progressed in the last 20 years.



Oh, sorry 'dad'.

I'll drop the attitude when you accept the fact that the Spirit would not beat an E30 M3. It's illogical.


I've stayed relatively nice throughout this, and not willing to get my first warning points over something as menial and dumb as this.

Oh, yes I am aware of how technology has improved over twenty years. Back then cars didn't have things like standard ABS, touch-screen navigation, rearview cameras, etc. And some of the best handling cars were made before '92.

And you don't want warning points? It's easy, don't say stupid smartmouth things like "AHAHAHAHA SHUT UP" or "Oh sorry, 'dad'". Because if youmsay something like that again, I'll report you. Totally had enough of the nonsense.

 

[The87Dodge]

but I can see the potential in a Neon, not a Spirit to defeat the likes of an E30 M3.

Plus, STRIPES FACTORY OPTION!

Are you even kidding? The Neon R/T has almost a hundred less horsepower than the Spirit, so go on, tell me why that would have a higher chance of beating the M3.

 

[TexRex]

That's...gorgeous. Well, except for the pillar tacked atop the leading edge of the door and that awkward rollbar.

 

[TS050]

And you don't want warning points? It's easy, don't say stupid smartmouth things like "AHAHAHAHA SHUT UP" or "Oh sorry, 'dad'". Because if youmsay something like that again, I'll report you.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHA

go.

--

And some of the best handling cars were made before '92.

Did I dispute this?!

Did I actually ****ing dispute this?!

No, I didn't.

I don't need to be told this.

Back then cars didn't have things like standard ABS, touch-screen navigation, rearview cameras, etc.

Congrats. You know something.

Ridiculous differentials for FF cars are why they are held up as pretty damn good nowadays. The Civic Type R can tell you that with its Sub 8 minute Ring lap.

FF cars were looked down upon then. Know why? A little thing called UNDERSTEER. Granted, some FF cars are known as amazing to drive (Renault Clio Williams), but I'm pretty sure a FF Dodge will NOT hold a DAMN CANDLE to an M3 that is +100kg lighter. And don't you dare bring up that 'hurr durr 30 horsepower means it'll win' argument because it's literally the most ****ing idiotic analogy I've heard in my life.

Totally had enough of the nonsense.

AHAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

you brought it all on yourself.

 

[Razor440]

Are you even kidding? The Neon R/T has almost a hundred less horsepower than the Spirit, so go on, tell me why that would have a higher chance of beating the M3.

This.

And if no no to that, say hello to this FF V8 powered thingy.

Or this, if you really want to take your chances with a E30.

Heard someplace this could outrun a 308 GTS (WHAT???)

I question that.

 

[The87Dodge]

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHA

go.

--



Did I dispute this?!

Did I actually ****ing dispute this?!

No, I didn't.

I don't need to be told this.


Congrats. You know something.

Ridiculous differentials for FF cars are why they are held up as pretty damn good nowadays. The Civic Type R can tell you that with its Sub 8 minute Ring lap.

FF cars were looked down upon then. Know why? A little thing called UNDERSTEER. Granted, some FF cars are known as amazing to drive (Renault Clio Williams), but I'm pretty sure a FF Dodge will NOT hold a DAMN CANDLE to an M3 that is +100kg lighter. And don't you dare bring up that 'hurr durr 30 horsepower means it'll win' argument because it's literally the most ****ing idiotic analogy I've heard in my life.



AHAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

you brought it all on yourself.

Ok, I reported it. You asked for it, so don't be surprised when you get a PM from Famine.

Seriously, never have I seen someone on GTP as out there and in denial as you. It is clear that you are just flamebaiting, and half of the tings you are saying aren't even related to the Spirit. Don't ask me how you have over 50 followers.

Yeah, it's obvious that a Civic Type R can handle better than the Spirit, because it's lightweight and is more modern.
FF cars were looked down upon in 1992 because of the crapboxes that actually weren't reliable and handled like a cinderblock. But not all FF cars were this way, contrary to popular belief.

Yes, I will dare to bring up that 100kg is not that big of a difference, an 30 horsepower actually means something. Because that's correct. And if it's the most ****ing idiotic analogy you've ever heard, than you probably don't know what an analogy is.

Oh, and I brought it all on myself, huh? Well you were never involved, but for some reason, you jump in here randomly and post a whole bunch of flamebait nonsense.

I do hope the mods ban you from this particular thread when they read my report. Because you caused a whole sh**load of problems that were never asked for.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

How about this?

You both drop this now, or - since you both seem fond of AUP violations - you both can have points.

To suggest a glorified K-car is comparable to a car with a seriously impressive touring car record is laughable at best.

 

[The87Dodge]

How about this?

You both drop this now, or - since you both seem fond of AUP violations - you both can have points.

To suggest a glorified K-car is comparable to a car with a seriously impressive touring car record is laughable at best.

It's TexRex and TS040 you need to tell this to, not me. They started the flamewars and they were the ones who decided to turn a debate into a large arguement. And TS040 should already get warning points for his smartmouth comments like "AHAHAHAHA SHUT UP" and "Oh sorry, dad.".

 

[wvmgmidget]

Can we all just calm down?

Panoz Esperante Convertable. I've always thought these were absolutely beautiful cars.

 

[TS050]

It's TexRex and TS040 you need to tell this to, not me. They started the flamewars and they were the ones who decided to turn a debate into a large arguement. And TS040 should already get warning points for his smartmouth comments like "AHAHAHAHA SHUT UP" and "Oh sorry, dad.".

You should stop telling mods how to do their jobs.

 

[Razor440]

Can we all just calm down?

Panoz Esperante Convertable. I've always thought these were absolutely beautiful cars.
View attachment 519871

So were these! Midtown Madness series were the only games (until rFactor 2) that had this car. Better than the Plymouth Prowler for sure.