The NSX is making a return...

[Bo]

Why don't you come up with something proving me wrong instead of just dissecting my posts sentence by sentence?

It was the very first thing that I and @McLaren did.

That's a terribly narrow train of thought. It doesn't matter where your car is made, the same robots will put it together, programmed from the same CAD files, and everything will undergo identical checks. Craftmanship only comes into bespoke products in the 21st century, that exactly the reason why large companies search for cheap labour - they produce the same product from the same materials for a lot less pay. Anything else is pure logical fallacy.

I own one of those US-made cars & nothing from the Honda side at the time was in any way better built. But, they weren't supposed to be because Honda's reliability stretches across the line-up regardless of where it's manufactured. It is the same with Toyota/Lexus; the Japanese are extremely meticulous about remaining consistent with their production across the globe. Whilst I can not directly speak for Honda, I know Toyota makes it a point to send its top assembly line workers over seas to oversee production at other plants.

Getting upset much? Let me guess, I offended your car?

Nope, I just feel as though you're deliberately avoiding everything in front of you and writing the same thing again and again, absolutely oblivious to what's been written.

 

[CodeRedR51]

Why don't you come up with something proving me wrong instead of just dissecting my posts sentence by sentence?

You don't even specify exactly where the actual difference is (if there is any), you just believe it. And then call someone naïve for not believing what you believe.

This.

I personally have seen Nissan's built in Japan and the same car(s) built here and in Mexico. Zero difference.

 

[Speedracer8218]

It was the very first thing that I and @McLaren did.



Nope, I just feel as though you're deliberately avoiding everything in front of you and writing the same thing again and again, absolutely oblivious to what's been written.

Yea that's what we call "your opinion"

 

[1241Penguin]

Yea that's what we call "your opinion"

And what you've written isn't?

 

[Bo]

Yea that's what we call "your opinion"

I'm pretty sure this:

It doesn't matter where your car is made, the same robots will put it together, programmed from the same CAD files, and everything will undergo identical checks.

Is slightly more than just opinion, but if you wanted to go down that road, how come your opinion can stand in good stead and be any more valid than everything else that's been written here?

 

[Speedracer8218]

I'm pretty sure this:

Is slightly more than just opinion, but if you wanted to go down that road, how come your opinion can stand in good stead and be any more valid than everything else that's been written here?

I stated my opinion and you stated yours. You called me naive for my belief and I replied back that you were the naive one. Obviously neither one of us is going to convince each other so I guess we can agree to disagree

Edit: @R1600Turbo so you determined that how? With a visual inspection?

 

[Grandea GTR]

Why does it seem like you're stuck in the 90s?

 

[RACECAR]

So you question how someone else determined there being no difference in quality yet you still have specified any yourself. What difference is there that you see yourself that makes your believe that their is a massive difference in quality?

Also, I fail to see how @hsv 's post regarding the same assembly machinery doing the same for both region's models is him posting his "opinion".

 

[CodeRedR51]

Edit: @R1600Turbo so you determined that how? With a visual inspection?

The fact that I work around them every day.

 

[Speedracer8218]

If 2 countries can produce the same exact car then why is there such a discrepancy in costs from country to country? According to you guys there's no different in built quality right? So then what's the reason for the manufacturing costs discrepancy? Countries like Japan, UK and Germany are just overcharging for something any other country can do?

One day every manufacturer will have their cars built somewhere else besides their "home" country. For me that will be a sad day when that happens, but I am not blind of where the auto industry is headed

 

[1241Penguin]

If 2 countries can produce the same exact car then why is there such a discrepancy in costs from country to country? According to you guys there's no different in built quality right? So then what's the reason for the manufacturing costs discrepancy? Countries like Japan, UK and Germany are just overcharging for something any other country can do?

So basically you still have no proof of the difference in build quality. You're making an assumption.

 

[Speedracer8218]

Bingo just like everyone else here

But I think if you tried answering my questions you would find my answer no?

 

[Bo]

If 2 countries can produce the same exact car then why is there such a discrepancy in costs from country to country? According to you guys there's no different in built quality right? So then what's the reason for the manufacturing costs discrepancy? Countries like Japan and Germany are just overcharging for something any other country can do?

Labour costs. Labour costs. That's the only difference. If you're looking at overall lower prices, it's also worthwhile factoring in lower expenses from having resources closer to you - less transport costs.

You've asked it several times and got the same answer. I don't know if you're looking for one that supports your opinion, so you'll ignore or dismiss any others, but that's literally the only answer to your question.

 

[Grandea GTR]

One day every manufacturer will have their cars built somewhere else besides their "home" country. For me that will be a sad day when that happens

Right.

How would making cars outside of the home country be a "sad day?" That means that more people would have access to that one specific model.

This is today. US, Japan, and Europe are all capable of manufacturing the same cars of near-to-same build quality.

 

[Speedracer8218]

Labour costs. Labour costs. That's the only difference. If you're looking at overall lower prices, it's also worthwhile factoring in lower expenses from having resources closer to you - less transport costs.

You've asked it several times and got the same answer. I don't know if you're looking for one that supports your opinion, so you'll ignore or dismiss any others, but that's literally the only answer to your question.

I. Asked. Why. Not what............

 

[Tornado]

If 2 countries can produce the same exact car then why is there such a discrepancy in costs from country to country?

Because cars built in other countries have to deal with other country's laws regarding labor. Cars built in other countries have to deal with shipping (components and finished cars) back and forth. Cars built in other countries have to deal with currency fluctuations.

According to you guys there's no different in built quality right?

Toyota and Honda are not Volkswagen. You're aware that the entire reason that GM cofounded NUMMI and bankrolled an automobile plant for Toyota to build cars in was because GM wanted to copy the Toyota manufacturing methods, yes?

 

[Bo]

I. Asked. Why. Not what............

"Why is there a discrepancy in costs" will yield the answer I gave you. "What is cause of the discrepancy in costs" is exactly the same question with different wording. You're trying unnecessarily hard to avoid an answer that doesn't support you opinion.

 

[McLaren]

If you actually believe that 2 cars built in different countries are exactly the same quality wise, sorry to say but you are the one being naive in my opinion. If that was the case then why such a difference in cost depending on which country the car is built? Why don't every manufacturer build their cars in Germany if cost and quality were relatively the same?

What your arguing has absolutely no relevance to why cars cost different amounts of money in different markets.

Try starting with the fact that the economies in the US/Europe/Japan are not the same & the monetary value of something does necessarily hold across all markets.

FYI I drive a Lexus right now, from Japan... The RX was initially made in Japan but it started being built in the US the same time the ES did. Those cars are based on the Camry so it would make sense to build the RX and now the NX here in the States.

I owned made cars so far, all of them true Japanese cars. I know from experience the cars from Japan are better built then the ones from here. Not being prejudiced towards US built products, they're good, just not better the JDM imho

And I know from actually working with them that you're wrong. I have driven both Canadian & Japanese-built RXs numerous times over the last 2 years.

There is no difference in build quality.

Yea that's what we call "your opinion"

Toyota has sent people from Japan to Kentucky to train the folks there. They have sent some of them to remain as lead production managers. The same build process & inspection requirements in Japan are in place in Kentucky. We have gone as far as to actually meet some of these folks alongside Toyota/Lexus executives that explain to my bosses what Lexus is planning, how the new plant will operate, & what we need to expect.

What I have are facts from the manufacturer vs. 1 owner who has a JDM-yo favoritism.

When they started NUMMI, and later with their first plant in Kentucky a few years later, they also sent plant managers and line runners to Japan for training as needed.

110% correct.

As I'm sure you're aware of, Toyota/Lexus has a tiny group of craftsmen I believe they call Takumi. From last I was told, a few of these folks have traveled to the US to train folks as well.

 

[mustafur]

Yes dead serious... and where was that Integra type R built? Not in the US that's for sure

because it's impossible to think that any car can be made in any country.

 

[Tornado]

When they started NUMMI, and later with their first plant in Kentucky a few years later, they also sent plant managers and line runners to Japan for training as needed.

 

[mustafur]

If 2 countries can produce the same exact car then why is there such a discrepancy in costs from country to country? According to you guys there's no different in built quality right? So then what's the reason for the manufacturing costs discrepancy? Countries like Japan, UK and Germany are just overcharging for something any other country can do?

One day every manufacturer will have their cars built somewhere else besides their "home" country. For me that will be a sad day when that happens, but I am not blind of where the auto industry is headed

Learn the difference between Currency exchange rates.

My Mazda 2 is made in Thailand yet the CX3 is made in Japan, yet sit inside and you will find no build quality difference.

 

[Speedracer8218]

Because cars built in other countries have to deal with other country's laws regarding labor. Cars built in other countries have to deal with shipping (components and finished cars) back and forth. Cars built in other countries have to deal with currency fluctuations.



Toyota and Honda are not Volkswagen. You're aware that the entire reason that GM cofounded NUMMI and bankrolled an automobile plant for Toyota to build cars in was because GM wanted to copy the Toyota manufacturing methods, yes?

Yes you're right about the laws/regulations of different countries but that also means manufacturers lean more towards the cheaper labor countries because they're more "flexible" with their laws/regulations. So in that case the car wouldn't be built the same way it would in Germany as it would be in let's say Mexico ( I'm not bad mouthing Mexico btw just an example)

 

[mustafur]

Yes you're right about the laws/regulations of different countries but that also means manufacturers lean more towards the cheaper labor countries because they're more "flexible" with their laws/regulations. So in that case the car wouldn't be built the same way it would in Germany as it would be in let's say Mexico ( I'm not bad mouthing Mexico btw just an example)

The Cost of labor is the only difference, they are still using the same parts with the same part numbers.

If it was a car designed and made for 1 country and nothing else maybe you would have a point, i know VW makes cars cheaper in India for example using older spec engines, but that doesn't apply to countries sold in other countries that is simply for 1 country as Indian Tax law adds massive tariffs to cars made outside the country.

 

[Speedracer8218]

Just a general question for everyone here... Do you all think the new cars nowadays are better built then cars from 10-15 yrs ago when building manufactuing plants in other countries was rare? I say no, and the reason I think that is just look at the recalls auto makers are doing lately... No QC!

 

[Tornado]

Yes you're right about the laws/regulations of different countries but that also means manufacturers lean more towards the cheaper labor countries because they're more "flexible" with their laws/regulations. So in that case the car wouldn't be built the same way it would in Germany as it would be in let's say Mexico ( I'm not bad mouthing Mexico btw just an example)

And for Volkswagens, they somewhat infamously don't keep the quality standards consistent. Volkswagen themselves practically draw attention to it, with the versions of their cars exclusively built in Germany. US manufacturers have had the problem too at times.



Toyota and Honda had that problem figured out before the 1980s were even over. They've been building cars without issue in the US for nearly 30 years. The only practical reason flagship models tend to be built in Japan is because of capacity concerns with US plants. Seriously, read up on NUMMI. It will tell you everything about how easily Toyota was able to adapt exacting Japanese quality tolerances to US built cars, as well as how much of a miserable failure GM's attempts at copying what Toyota trained GM's workers to do for their other plants.

Just a general question for everyone here... Do you all think the new cars nowadays are better built then cars from 10-15 yrs ago when building manufactuing plants in other countries was at its infant stage? I say no, and the reason I think that is just look at the recalls auto makers are doing lately... No QC!

10-15 years ago Toyota and Honda had already been producing cars in America for 10-15 years.

 

[CodeRedR51]

Bingo just like everyone else here

Since I actually work for one of the manufactures, unlike you, I see these things first hand. No assumptions here.

 

[McLaren]

Just a general question for everyone here... Do you all think the new cars nowadays are better built then cars from 10-15 yrs ago when building manufactuing plants in other countries was rare? I say no, and the reason I think that is just look at the recalls auto makers are doing lately... No QC!

Because recalls weren't a thing 10-15 years ago.

 

[Speedracer8218]

And for Volkswagens, they somewhat infamously don't keep the quality standards consistent. Volkswagen themselves practically draw attention to it, with the versions of their cars exclusively built in Germany. US manufacturers have had the problem too at times.



Toyota and Honda had that problem figured out before the 1980s were even over. They've been building cars without issue in the US for nearly 30 years. The only practical reason flagship models tend to be built in Japan is because of capacity concerns with US plants. Seriously, read up on NUMMI. It will tell you everything about how easily Toyota was able to adapt exacting Japanese quality tolerances to US built cars, as well as how much of a miserable failure GM's attempts at copying what Toyota trained GM's workers to do for their other plants.



10-15 years ago Toyota and Honda had already been producing cars in America for 10-15 years.

Thank you for your answer, not only did you shut me up but you did it with class and backed it with informantion I could check for myself

I did not start commenting here to ruffle anybody's feathers but all I got was attacked for what I mentioned was my personal opinion.

Stay classy GTplanet

 

[Grandea GTR]

At least that's over with.

 

[mustafur]

Just a general question for everyone here... Do you all think the new cars nowadays are better built then cars from 10-15 yrs ago when building manufactuing plants in other countries was rare? I say no, and the reason I think that is just look at the recalls auto makers are doing lately... No QC!

Yes easily, cars these days will be more trouble free then they ever where despite signficant increases in tech, this gets missed because when they do go wrong they tend to be harder to fix.