The penalty system can't be all bad now. What good has penalties brought to Gran Turismo Sport?

[Crazy Taylor]

Theres so many threads that have a bad word for the penalty system. Most threads created because someone was done wrong by this system. Yes it has some bad points to it, but it can't all be bad can it?

For example would there as much effort to race clean if PD did not implement penalties? A'la GT 1 through to about 4 on single player mode.

 

[NotThirdReich]

Theres so many threads that hace a bad word for the penalty system. Most threads created because someone was done wrong by this system. Yes it has some bad points to it, but it can't all be bad can it?

For example would there as much effort to race clean if PD did not implement penalties? A'la GT 1 through to about 4 on single player mode.

When someone tried to brake check me, I went through them and they got a penalty. Then later they spun out somehow.

 

[BallPtPenTheif]

At the very least the penalty system has completely raised the expectations that we have for how people play racing games. Now we are just at that inevitable point where people are trying to build meta strategies around the penalty system and exploiting it's deficiencies.

 

[mastretta_mx]

Unfortunately I don't think there is somethinglike the perfect penalty system, at least with the current technology (even in real life racing there are controversial penalties happening in Formula 1) even though, the penalty system can be improved, specially when someone hit you and oyu got the penalty (the IA is not doing a good veredict on who is he responsible) also there are moments when people take you out of the track and get a penalty but they know the time of the penalty will not be translated to the time you lose getting back on track and gaining speed again so they end up finishing ahead you, those kind of situations is that make the current penalty system unfair

 

[kilesa4568]

Fear of penalties = fear of close racing for me. Contact happens way too often with attempted bad moves in the lower ranks and the only way to avoid the inevitable penalties is to drive passively. Kinda boring.

 

[05XR8]

The way penalties are implemented, I'm trying to see the good in it, but can't. Not because I don't want them. In the game. Rather, how PD did it.

For years, PD Hve used the auto drive slow you down method. That would work with this game. It's more incentive to race clean as that's fair.

It's wrong, when you get knocked off track and someone gets a 10 second penalty. They are free to make time, while your car gets reset some seconds later. Having players ghost and auto drive right away, may be a fair solution.

However, it's just like real racing. Racers do get served penalties post race. Podiums are stripped, racers may have finished top 10 and a demoted to last. This game though, it doesn't balance out. Had they also added damage and auto drive, THEN, I think we'd see less carnage from dirty drivers.

 

[BallPtPenTheif]

Had they also added damage and auto drive, THEN, I think we'd see less carnage from dirty drivers.

Damage would effect the victim more than the attacker. Getting pitted into a wall would destroy your car while the attacking car just gets a scratch.

 

[OutlawQuadrnt]

The penalty system is a net positive for me. Purely guessing here but I'm finishing 1-2 positions higher on average by taking advantage of other people's penalties. They're the easiest positions to gain, after all.

 

[05XR8]

Damage would effect the victim more than the attacker. Getting pitted into a wall would destroy your car while the attacking car just gets a scratch.

When the car doing the hitting, is getting a time penalty and damage, it could work better. Remember, damage wore off in past games.

 

[JamCar0ne]

For example would there as much effort to race clean if PD did not implement penalties?

There would still be some effort but you wouldn't necessarily see it as the matching would be a jumble of talents. Like the old quickmatch races in the previous title, it was rare to find a clean race which led to people not racing or just not caring how they drove.

I like the penalties even though I think I have been penalized unfairly at times. Overall, penalties for whatever reason make players think about it. I would like to see penalties non-scrubbable where to get rid of it, you could serve a stop-n-go in pit lane except pit lane should be closed on last lap. Losing positions due to a time penalty will cause all sorts of complaining and may lead to people trying even harder to avoid them.

 

[05XR8]

There would still be some effort but you wouldn't necessarily see it as the matching would be a jumble of talents. Like the old quickmatch races in the previous title, it was rare to find a clean race which led to people not racing or just not caring how they drove.

I like the penalties even though I think I have been penalized unfairly at times. Overall, penalties for whatever reason make players think about it. I would like to see penalties non-scrubbable where to get rid of it, you could serve a stop-n-go in pit lane except pit lane should be closed on last lap. Losing positions due to a time penalty will cause all sorts of complaining and may lead to people trying even harder to avoid them.

I've thought about Pit lane penalties(PLP) as well. Auto drive through pit lane, would be good if a penalty isn't served after a certain amount of laps and/or time.

 

[Veinz]

The penalty system was better before 1.15. It has improved a bit but it’s still overly harsh on innocent players.

At this point i’d rather it not be in the game because it just ruins close racing.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

The good it is supposed to bring is not vindictive time penalties to slow people down, it was supposed to separate different driving styles. Agressive vs agressive, clean vs clean. The SR system is far too easy to manipulate to achieve that goal and tweaking time penalties is never going to fix it.

You can't change people's behavior with penalties, you can sort people by analyzing their behavior over time. That's what PD should be focusing on.

 

[BallPtPenTheif]

The good it is supposed to bring is not vindictive time penalties to slow people down, it was supposed to separate different driving styles. Agressive vs agressive, clean vs clean. The SR system is far too easy to manipulate to achieve that goal and tweaking time penalties is never going to fix it.

You can't change people's behavior with penalties, you can sort people by analyzing their behavior over time. That's what PD should be focusing on.

It's a good point. They should just invert the SR ranking. Make it an Aggressive Driving Rating and rank it from E to S, with S being the most aggressive. Then all of the cavemen can hammer on each other thinking they're working up the ladder while the safe E rating drivers with an A+ DR get picked up for tournaments.

 

[phil_75]

Fear of penalties = fear of close racing for me. Contact happens way too often with attempted bad moves in the lower ranks and the only way to avoid the inevitable penalties is to drive passively. Kinda boring.

This.

I darent even try to overtake even when im much faster due to worrying about penalties after having three resets which took weeks to get back each time so i end up just sitting behind someone but not too close or i might get a 10sec penalty for some tap neither of us even felt.

Boring.

 

[Alpha Cipher]

I think this became another complain thread
--
I liked the penalty system the most when it was 1.13. I wish they'd bring it back, but overall I'm still happy with the penalty system. Some oddball races here and there (and mostly those are the races you'd hear from me), but 90% of the time it's serving me well

 

[Crazy Taylor]

I think this became another complain thread
--
I liked the penalty system the most when it was 1.13. I wish they'd bring it back, but overall I'm still happy with the penalty system. Some oddball races here and there (and mostly those are the races you'd hear from me), but 90% of the time it's serving me well

Tell me about it. Bored of complainers. Made an anti-hate penalty thread (quickly got deleted, was a bit unsavoury).

Was not my intention to have folk complain but beggars can't be choosers.

The penalty system is annoying at times but most of the time it can benefit me being a Lowly mid B level player.

 

[VBR]

You can't change people's behavior with penalties, you can sort people by analyzing their behavior over time. That's what PD should be focusing on.

Part of the problem is that PD don't cater to dirty drivers, & I think they really should. Dirty drivers have bought this game too & deserve to play it how they enjoy it just as clean drivers do. In GT5/GT6 hosts would name their lobbies "Clean Or Kick" while others would name them "Dirty Or Kick". Having clean & dirty lobbies online sorted out most of the driving behaviour. Forcing clean & dirty drivers to race together in GTS & then applying a less than ideal penalty system is unfair on clean drivers & probably frustrating for dirty drivers as well. Having separate races for each of them would go some way to solving the issue, just like it did in the public lobbies in GT5/GT6.

 

[Brzlav]

One big point that I like is that the penalty system encourages people to not disconnect from the game.

My previous experiences from online racing have pretty much only been in GTR Evolution. You went to the server with like 16 players. After turn 1, 7-9 were still alive, the rest disconnected and by the end of the race, 3-6 players were left.

Now, if you mess up your race, there is still a meaningless, but fun fight for P17 or so.

 

[ceres2000]

The penalty system while not perfect, actually far from it, is what makes GT Sport better than some of what I've experienced. Sure there are times when the penalties are unfair and really hard to understand, but overall the racing is much cleaner than normal. If there's one complaint I'd wish the penalties and SR downs were done away with for slight touches in close racing. It's almost never intentional and mostly harmless, but thats going to be really hard to implement because people being people will find a way to abuse it. It will improve sure but it's not all bad.

@Brzlav that last point is spot on. It's really fun to have a tight battle even down the order.

 

[2clicks]

Out of all the races I've competed in, I can only recall receiving a penalty unfairly on two occassions: in a race on Maggiore when someone cut on the inside of me going around the hilly hairpin, and on Interlagos, when someone decided it was a good idea to implement their driving style they learned on Burnout. Other than that, I can actually sense when I've made a mistake, and think to myself 'okay, fair enough, I'll take that punishment.' Yesterday, Suzuka East, which I raced three times with plenty of contact from behind in all three races, actually saw me come out unscathed with no penalties incurred. There should still be more parameters included though. How difficult is it to determine whether you were being shunted, or trying to brake check somebody?

 

[Alpha Cipher]

Tell me about it. Bored of complainers. Made an anti-hate penalty thread (quickly got deleted, was a bit unsavoury).

Was not my intention to have folk complain but beggars can't be choosers.

The penalty system is annoying at times but most of the time it can benefit me being a Lowly mid B level player.

I mean, if people have nothing to say good to the penalty system, why bother posting here? There's already tons of complain threads about it so it's not like they have a lack of threads to post on or a lack of attention to this issue

To be fair though, I'm also complaining now

 

[Slapped]

Fear of penalties = fear of close racing for me. Contact happens way too often with attempted bad moves in the lower ranks and the only way to avoid the inevitable penalties is to drive passively. Kinda boring.

This.

I darent even try to overtake even when im much faster due to worrying about penalties after having three resets which took weeks to get back each time so i end up just sitting behind someone but not too close or i might get a 10sec penalty for some tap neither of us even felt.

Boring.

Totally agree - and this is the main reason I rarely venture into sport mode these days

Now I'm not a dive bomber or a dirty racer, and I do try to race clean, but if you're not getting a nudge every now and then, or trading a bit of paint in a corner then you're not in a race, you're just in a time trial with multiple cars on the track.

The biggest problem with the penalty system and therefore the D and S ratings is that people end up caring about their ratings far more than the actual racing.

When I see a driver with a middling DR and high SR then I think that's just somebody who's not even trying to race. On the other hand when I see a high DR and a middling SR then yeah that's somebody who's putting some effort in, trying, and is taking risks - a real racer in other words.

I tried it PD's way, and it was boring as hell. Out of respect to the people who covert their ratings, who seem to be in the majority, I decided not to bother with sport mode again as what I really want to do is race and not play follow the leader.

 

[bmxmitch]

I somehow like the constant fear while overtaking.

Btw, I'm kind of a Masochist

 

[Crazy Taylor]

On Monza I went off track more often than not, letting the car/s past thus not getting a penalty. I like the way the penalty system does things like that.

 

[Veinz]

On Monza I went off track more often than not, letting the car/s past thus not getting a penalty. I like the way the penalty system does things like that.

Just the other day I was doing the Megane Trophy daily at Suzuka. I was going into the final chicane, didn't brake early or do any malicious defending moves, the guy behind who was several car lengths back slammed into the back of me and sent me into the barriers. I got reset to track and received a penalty, he kept driving with nothing. My race was already a write-off before that anyway so I wasn't too upset just slightly annoyed, the thing that irked me though is this guy waited on the pit straight for me and side swiped me off track as I went past, resulting in me receiving another penalty. He still got nothing. We were both DR A/SR S.

After the race I was SR A, he was a blue SR S. This was the first time I was in SR A since early November. How can so many players support a penalty system that works like this? It makes no sense.

 

[Crazy Taylor]

After the race I was SR A, he was a blue SR S. This was the first time I was in SR A since early November. How can so many players support a penalty system that works like this? It makes no sense.

It doesn't make sense. Its wrong that those more gifted in being fast (and consistent) get penalised for it.

 

[Barry R]

SR A needs to be looked at, its too easy to get to this... its like its just dished out for fun. I rock up and every one is "SR A".. yet, ive never met so many animals in a game. Clean racing... yeah more chance of seeing a Unicorn

 

[sundaydriving]

Penalties discourage players from turning every race into a demolition derby so thats good.

 

[fastone371]

I think this became another complain thread
--
I liked the penalty system the most when it was 1.13. I wish they'd bring it back, but overall I'm still happy with the penalty system. Some oddball races here and there (and mostly those are the races you'd hear from me), but 90% of the time it's serving me well

Look at it a different way though, how often are you starting in 10-14 position? It's real easy to have someone knock you off track back there then you are fighting with guys 17-20 and your real problems begin. I'm at a point now that I'm grouped with many A and A+ drivers which puts me mid field. Last night I was in 8th and some idiot is behind and to the side of me, he cuts the chicane and hits my rear bumper, I spin and now I am dead last in 18th and trying to pass cars that will lollygag mid apex, it's almost like getting brake checked mod corner