The Political Satire/Meme Thread

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Groundfish
That’s 40 so far, children
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Yes, I'm sure that's all very emotive, but their killers are not the people tasked with protecting them, nor are they escaping justice thanks to processes put in place to prevent that from happening, nor are they free to carry on doing their jobs.

People are angry because when cops kill innocent people, the cops are protected by other cops and get to carry on being cops. That's why they're protesting. They're not angry about the murder, or whether the victim is a child or a large man on drugs (or a sleeping paramedic), they're angry that the perpetrators get away with it so completely.


And when I say "get away with it so completely" I don't mean they just get away with it - a lot of the gangbangers who murder get away with it through lack of evidence. If evidence came to light implicating them they wouldn't get away with it, they'd be prosecuted (or likely die in a hail of bullets "resisting arrest"). Three guys murdered Breonna Taylor. We know who they are, we know what they did, and there's evidence not only of them killing her, but of attempting to cover up what they did and silencing the witness. They haven't even been arrested.

This is why the two concepts are not the same thing in the slightest.
Groundfish
You got 40 children killed. Unsafe streets with gang shootouts sending stray bullets.
You need MORE law enforcement.
What’s a social worker gonna do in a gang shootout sing kumbaya?
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You need the right law enforcement. You wouldn't send a social worker (who is apparently now a Christian missionary) to a gang shootout, but then you wouldn't send SWAT to a jumper...

... and whoever got the gang shootout would be there after it had started in any case, so your 40 kids would already be killed in the crossfire; responders can only respond. If your aim is crime prevention, you don't need SWAT or riot police patrolling, and you don't need law enforcement because enforcers can only enforce. You need community cops who aren't going to put seven in your back.
 
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Oops, I got so distracted by unencumbered stupidity that I completely forgot to post what I'd intended.

:lol:

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Famine
(or a sleeping paramedic)
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Just to clarify to the best of my understanding, accounts from those involved and evidence from the scene suggest that Taylor and Walker (assuming you're referring to Taylor in the quoted bit as you refer to her later in the post) may have been asleep, or at least in bed, prior to the events unfolding, but Taylor was in close enough proximity to Walker that she was struck by nearly half of the rounds volleyed at him as he stood inside their home with a registered firearm that he was permitted to possess and that he'd just fired in an attempt to defend said home from intruders that he wasn't aware were law enforcement officers. The unarmed Taylor managed to get to the hallway outside their home before expiring from her injuries.
 
She's crazy, but not Marjorie Taylor-Greene level crazy. That woman won the Republican primary for her congressional district in rural white Georgia, a heavily Republican district, so she'll nearly 100% win the general election. She is a QAnon fanatic, supports 9/11 and New World Order conspiracy theories, has made anti-semitic dog-whistles in the past (subtle references to "The Jews" controlling the world and the usual alt-right Soros conspiracies), suggested that the Las Vegas massacre was staged as part of the Democrats' "anti-gun agenda", has posed for a photo holding an AR-15 pointed at AOC, Ilhan Omar, and Rashida Tlaib's faces, and constantly fear mongers about socialism, saying that "it's time for Republicans to go on the offense against these socialists who want to rip our country apart". She's almost like a female Alex Jones.

This is the Trump effect in action. He's emboldened these crazies enough so that they feel justified in running for Congress. I find it quite frightening that people like her and DeAnna Lorraine are going to have a say in this country's decisions.

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Hopefully, she loses on her way to Congress. DeAnna already did, badly claiming she was going to take down Pelosi; 74% to 1.8%.

That's really odd though to see a die-hard far-right person such as herself believe 9/11 was a conspiracy. In the past, that was usually something you'd see on the far-left out of their disdain for Bush & the Republicans wanting to go to war for oil.
 
GranTurNismo
She's crazy, but not Marjorie Taylor-Greene level crazy. That woman won the Republican primary for her congressional district in rural white Georgia, a heavily Republican district, so she'll nearly 100% win the general election. She is a QAnon fanatic, supports 9/11 and New World Order conspiracy theories, has made anti-semitic dog-whistles in the past (subtle references to "The Jews" controlling the world and the usual alt-right Soros conspiracies), suggested that the Las Vegas massacre was staged as part of the Democrats' "anti-gun agenda", has posed for a photo holding an AR-15 pointed at AOC, Ilhan Omar, and Rashida Tlaib's faces, and constantly fear mongers about socialism, saying that "it's time for Republicans to go on the offense against these socialists who want to rip our country apart". She's almost like a female Alex Jones.

This is the Trump effect in action. He's emboldened these crazies enough so that they feel justified in running for Congress. I find it quite frightening that people like her and DeAnna Lorraine are going to have a say in this country's decisions.

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I absolutely hate gun advocates like this. It makes all of us look bat-🤬 insane.
 
Joey D
I absolutely hate gun advocates like this. It makes all of us look bat-🤬 insane.
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I guess it's worth mentioning that I also hate it when people assume that leftists are anti-gun by default and want gun bans. After all, most leftists are libertarian, and see owning a firearm as a personal freedom. Marx made it central that the common people should be have the right to be armed to prevent a tyrannical government, close to the same philosophy of the 2nd amendment. Supporting common-sense gun reform to keep semi-automatic rifles out of the hands of lunatics and criminals isn't "anti gun". I also hate this notion that right-wingers think ANY restriction on purchasing/carrying a firearm is a violation of the 2nd amendment; it's almost like the NRA has paid them to take this stance. But anyway, I don't think I've ever encountered a leftist who advocates for taking guns away from law-abiding citizens.
 
Famine
You need community cops who aren't going to put seven in your back
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Yes, police patrolling absolutely. Not SWAT.
Funny how police presence tends to deter crime. The presence itself prevents.
Edit community YES, like Andy Griffith hanging out at a coffee shop with the locals, knowing them and everything.

Famine
Yes, I'm sure that's all very emotive, but their killers are not the people tasked with protecting them, nor are they escaping justice thanks to processes put in place to prevent that from happening, nor are they free to carry on doing their jobs
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I look at it as this, yes you have some bad cases for police, but with how many times overall the police respond to calls, how big is the number?
How many Breonna cases are there?
40 children killed within this time frame is more human life lost, far more unjustly.
Overall more people dying is more people dying.
To me more people getting killed is a bigger moral problem than a smaller number, in particular when they are innocent children.
The implication of the BLM spiel is that these outlier events are NOT outlier events.
But statistically they are outliers (Breonna Taylor etc)
So, yeah emotionally 40 kids killed in a few months is a larger concern to me morally than some career criminals death.
That’s only in Chicago. 40 kids.
How many Breonna Taylor’s are there?
When law enforcement officers deal with criminals daily statistically it’s likely there will be mistakes.
All the crime data speaks for itself.
I linked it before. Statistically speaking these events like Taylor are not a big part of the overall human suffering pie.
 
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Groundfish
But statistically they are outliers (Breonna Taylor etc)
So, yeah emotionally 40 kids killed in a few months is a larger concern to me morally than some career criminals death.
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I can't even unpack this.

Breonna Taylor was a career criminal? Her death didn't matter even though the people who caused it got away with it and could easily repeat the same thing with some other innocent?

How many of those 40 kids could you say the same thing about?
 
McLaren
DeAnna is as deranged as they come. She doesn't even hide her racism. Tagged Rep. Omar & Tlaib in a tweet about #NeverForget on 9/11. :odd:
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The crazy thing is she may actually be reasonable compared to this guy, on whom she apparently did quite the number:

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Omar Navarro, a 31-year-old thrice-failed Republican congressional candidate from California, was arrested on charges alleging he'd violated a restraining order filed against him by former girlfriend DeAnna Lorraine Tesoriero. Navarro was also charged for stalking and issuing criminal threats against her. He was found guilty and went to jail. This was his second violation of a restraining order in as many years, his ex-wife being the other filing individual.

Additionally, Navarro was involved in an incident in which vocal but peaceful protesters he and two others managed to walk past safely on the way to their vehicle were then peppersprayed as said vehicle drove off. Unedited footage of the incident, filmed by one of the perpetrating parties, was posted to Facebook and was later reused in a video posted to Navarro's YouTube channel, but not before being carefully edited to omit the part where Navarro asked if others managed to hit anyone and then asked for a can so that he could do some spraying himself. In the YouTube video, which contains a terrible "music" track and features excessive use of slow-down effects, footage of a young boy is freeze-framed with the question "Who's this?" added above him. Super creepy.

Navarro announced in July of this year that he would be running for Governor of California in 2022.

#TheRightStuff #TheNormalStuff

Edit: I completely forgot the part where, in the aftermath of the pepperspray incident that resulted in him resigning from a city council seat as an investigation was launched, Navarro accused those responsible for said investigation of being lackeys for Democratic congressional opponent Maxine Waters. Navarro also published on his Twitter page a letter fraudulently attributed to Waters, in which she purportedly called for Muslim refugees to be homed in her district, with the apparent implication being that they would bolster her campaign.
 
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Groundfish
40 children killed within this time frame is more human life lost, far more unjustly.
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That's rather utilitarian - and again a play on emotion.

People dying at the hands of other people are not necessarily a failing of policing and the justice system. They are, perhaps, a failing of society and something that policing (and not law enforcement) can temper. They're definitely something to be upset about, but they're not a symptom of anything systemic or particularly broken about governance.

People dying at the hands of cops who then get to carry on their lives without any deviation are a failing of policing and the justice system, and people are quite rightly angry about it.

As you like to bring up children and paedophiles, cops killing civilians and going back to being cops are little different from teachers raping children and going back to being teachers. Acting like people (and the media) should be equally upset by kids raping other kids or they can't be outraged by rapist teachers is pretty analogous to the lines drawn here.

These are the people supposed to protect us from the bad guys becoming the bad guys and then being supported as bad guys by the rest of the people supposed to protect us from the bad guys.
Groundfish
40 kids killed in a few months is a larger concern to me morally than some career criminals death.
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Would you agree that prison serves to rehabilitate as much as to punish, and a time-served felon has paid his debt - and seven years (a quarter of this person's life) after the fact is time enough to consider it part of someone's past? Would you agree in innocence until proven guilty? Would you agree that hanging to death is not the appropriate punishment for the allegation of a crime of passing counterfeit money?

Would you not thus agree that George Floyd was denied due process, denied his rights, and summarily killed by someone whose job is to protect them?


A justice system which denies fundamental, Constitutional rights should be a larger concern to you, even if 40 dead kids is more emotionally charged.
 
McLaren
Hopefully, she loses on her way to Congress.
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Unfortunately I do not see that happening. The district is about 80% Republican. I think most voters (most voters are old, anyway) will just vote for the Republican candidate by default. Maybe she won't win by as large of a margin as her predecessor did, but I really doubt she's gonna lose, as much as I want that to happen.
McLaren
DeAnna already did, badly claiming she was going to take down Pelosi; 74% to 1.8%.
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That's a relief.
McLaren
That's really odd though to see a die-hard far-right person such as herself believe 9/11 was a conspiracy. In the past, that was usually something you'd see on the far-left out of their disdain for Bush & the Republicans wanting to go to war for oil.
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It seems to me that both the far-right/alt-right and far-left have touted 9/11 conspiracies at a pretty equal rate. You see alt-righters like Alex Jones, Richard Spencer, Nick Fuentes, and well, Marjorie Taylor-Greene who dispute the traditional 9/11 narrative, as well as lefties like Jimmy Dore, who sometimes has really good takes when it comes to economic issues or the framing of our government, yet will make completely bat**** claims when it comes to 9/11 or Syria. I know I have a reputation around here to be quite left-leaning, but in no way do I agree with or endorse any 9/11 conspiracies or skepticisms, just thought I'd clarify that.
 
GranTurNismo
It seems to me that both the far-right/alt-right and far-left have touted 9/11 conspiracies at a pretty equal rate. You see alt-righters like Alex Jones, Richard Spencer, Nick Fuentes, and well, Marjorie Taylor-Greene who dispute the traditional 9/11 narrative, as well as lefties like Jimmy Dore, who sometimes has really good takes when it comes to economic issues or the framing of our government, yet will make completely bat**** claims when it comes to 9/11 or Syria. I know I have a reputation around here to be quite left-leaning, but in no way do I agree with or endorse any 9/11 conspiracies or skepticisms, just thought I'd clarify that.
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This caused some curiosity, so after a quick Google, I see why you mentioned the New World Order in your original post, reading that Jones and other far-right folks seem to believe 9/11 was done to usher that in. It's been years since I've debated anything around 9/11 conspiracies (of which I also do not endorse or ever care to re-engage), but it has apparently, expanded well beyond just kick-starting a war in another country. The Wiki links the New World Order back to Illuminati, but I can't recall participating in any debates on 9/11 & it being referenced; I remember the Illuminati being more focused on the ol' Hollywood Elites & what not.
 
Famine
People dying at the hands of other people are not necessarily a failing of policing and the justice system. They are, perhaps, a failing of society and something that policing (and not law enforcement) can temper. They're definitely something to be upset about, but they're not a symptom of anything systemic or particularly broken about governance.
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I would say no, not necessarily, but in the case of children’s playgrounds being unsafe, I’d argue that IS a failure of governance. Ok a horrible event or two will probably happen but 40 youths in the same city is what I would call unsafe streets. Imo if the streets are unsafe it’s a failure there, definitely.

Famine
People dying at the hands of cops who then get to carry on their lives without any deviation are a failing of policing and the justice system, and people are quite rightly angry about it.
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Statistically it’s not a big number relative to the number of police interactions with citizens overall, is it a systemic failure, or some bad people within the system?
People are upset yes, but if each human life is equal, then isn’t the larger number statistically a bigger moral problem?


Famine
As you like to bring up children and paedophiles, cops killing civilians and going back to being cops are little different from teachers raping children and going back to being teachers. Acting like people (and the media) should be equally upset by kids raping other kids or they can't be outraged by rapist teachers is pretty analogous to the lines drawn here
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Does it matter to the rape victim who raped them? They were raped.

Famine
These are the people supposed to protect us from the bad guys becoming the bad guys and then being supported as bad guys by the rest of the people supposed to protect us from the bad guys
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Again my position is that statistically it’s highly likely in any industry some of the workers will be bad guys.
Some ‘bad guys’ existence is not a systemic problem. Remove the bad guys.

Famine
Would you agree that prison serves to rehabilitate as much as to punish, and a time-served felon has paid his debt - and seven years (a quarter of this person's life) after the fact is time enough to consider it part of someone's past? Would you agree in innocence until proven guilty? Would you agree that hanging to death is not the appropriate punishment for the allegation of a crime of passing counterfeit money?
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Re rehab 100 percent. My favorite part of the ‘Seattle is dying video’ was when they showed a different city at the end who enforced their laws, had a rehab program with a 94 percent success rate. It’s right towards the end of the video, and only a few minutes long.
Of course yes to the others.

Famine
Would you not thus agree that George Floyd was denied due process, denied his rights, and summarily killed by someone whose job is to protect them?
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In an ideal world all criminals would be apprehended without a fight, no police would be bad, but actual circumstances happen...
That was a horrible event, but ultimately it’s one human life, and further the killer is having justice served.
And yes he was violated-right to fair trial etc.

Famine
A justice system which denies fundamental, Constitutional rights should be a larger concern to you, even if 40 dead kids is more emotionally charged.
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The system doesn’t do that though imo.
Animalistic situations don’t change the my view that if all humans are viewed equally, that more of them being slaughtered in ONE city is more of a moral concern.
Jmo
 
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Groundfish
The system doesn’t do that though imo.
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The system absolutely does that. You even agreed George Floyd was denied a right to a trial. If the system didn't violate Constitutional rights then Floyd wouldn't be dead, he'd either be in jail, out on bond, or acquitted of the charges.

You've said repeatedly that you are all for the law. In America, there's no higher law of the land than the Constitution. It's the actual foundation of our government, including the judicial branch.
 
Joey D
The system absolutely does that. You even agreed George Floyd was denied a right to a trial. If the system didn't violate Constitutional rights then Floyd wouldn't be dead,
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To me the above is conflating the actions of one bad guy with the setup of a system of law.
It would be analogous to getting a flat on your car and selling it and buying a bike.
“Dang cars are bad systems, look at this flat tire! This car violated my right to drive!”
Further I think a similar conflation is made when thousands riot and loot and burn over the statistical anomalies in the dealings of police with criminals, in general.
 
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Groundfish
To me the above is conflating the actions of one bad guy with the setup of a system of law.
It would be analogous to getting a flat on your car and selling it and buying a bike.
Further I think a similar conflation is made when thousands riot and loot and burn over the statistical anomalies in the dealings of police with criminals, in general.
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Except it's not just one person, in the past year there have been over 1,000 people killed by police. While there's a percentage of those that were justified, there's also a percentage where the shooting wasn't. There's also a percentage where the shooting might've been justified, but the officer could've used a less than lethal method at subduing a suspect. Every time law enforcement kills a suspect, they're denying a person their Constitutional right and I have a problem with that.

Criminals should be brought to justice, but they should also be granted a trial with a jury. I don't care how big or small the crime is and whether they're absolutely, 100% guilty or not, as an American citizen they're granted that right.
 
Joey D
xcept it's not just one person, in the past year there have been over 1,000 people killed by police. While there's a percentage of those that were justified, there's also a percentage where the shooting wasn't. There's also a percentage where the shooting might've been justified, but the officer could've used a less than lethal method at subduing a suspect. Every time law enforcement kills a suspect, they're denying a person their Constitutional right and I have a problem with that.
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I agree there’s far too much violent crime.
At many times in the cases of these criminals, who are not law abiding citizens, fight the police, often they are on drugs, committing heinous crimes, resisting arrest etc.
Pointing out the fact that it’s necessary for police to employ deadly force sometimes is a painful reality police must live with every day.
I’d like to see 1000 deaths vs number of crimes against people committed every year.
Also re your argument that every person killed by the police has had their Constitutional rights taken from them, this imo is a point worth exploring further.
You claimed always when an officer kills this is the case.
I’d like to ask you if this is the hard claim you are making in your argument?
Is the always always or mostly?
For example let’s say police encounter an active shooter and killing the suspect can prevent innocent citizens from being shot.
Do you also agree in this case that the police were in the wrong?
 
This thread - like the notion of decent, respectful political discourse itself - is on its last legs.

Watching lefties gang up and stroke each other with five responses at a time to a few righties who have made it really clear they're gonna wonder in circles with their fingers in their ear doesn't inspire a lot of faith in your fellow man.

Politics has become such an ego stroking, self back patting device that I just don't want to engage in it. Progressive leftists absolutely refuse any debate, because anyone who disagrees with them on one point MUST have a lifestyle utterly incompatible with the modern world and must be rectified, yokel, rectified with reams and reams of data, and peer reviews, and consensus.

It's very easy to be smug and put someone down when you are on the 15 man side of the 15 v 3 fight. It's not decent to pile onto someone who is making a point that goes against whatever status quo you want to see established.

Right, or left, not everyone will agree with what you see as correct or important. It's just not ever going to happen. What honestly annoys me particularly about the left is that they act as if we are inexorably all heading towards agreeing on all the good, principled and noble things that have been parroted repeatedly.

The right, at least, have not lost their sense of humour (where the left seem capable only of the snarkiest of in-jokes) but have lost grip on reality. Right wing politics used to focus on the prosperity of the state and the preservation of its peoples, the importance of family etc. Now everything seems to hinge on my right to be a violent, indignant piece of **** that doesn't need to move one inch for my fellow man. That's not what conservatism is meant to be.

As for the left wing - well, I thought I was a liberal for the longest time, but I don't seem to be welcome anymore. I don't care to champion every minority - be that skin colour, amputees, or whatever else - I believe we've created a society where those people are capable of standing up for themselves (maybe not certain amputees, but...). I don't think shows of solidarity or celebrations of pride are important. I think they're important for people's egos and sense of community. I think the modern liberal longs, yearns to be part of some massive revolution or social change for the better to the point they are willing to overlook how much better things are than any time in history because they feel like they missed out on fixing the world. The modern "conservative" longs for a fight, a reason to dig the heels in and stick the fingers in the ears because hey, these are the way things have ALWAYS been (again, no, not even 40 years ago) and ain't these triggered liberals a spectacle.

That's all it is - a spectacle. We have just built political discourse into a sickly, characterless, plastic smiled game show of a spectacle.

Tl;Dr: being secure in your beliefs doesn't mean ******** on the beliefs of others. It's possible to be a good person in more than one mould. Quit being ****** to each other.
 

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