The Political Satire/Meme Thread

[Johnnypenso]

I seem to find his point of view hypocritical and that seems to be the joke to me.

I don't like identety politics but I love my jewish identity (an identity he didn't even choose are never had to do something for to be achieved). Ow yeah and I love a state based on the identity of being jewish but I hate identity politics.

Or am I missing something.
On top of that shapiro is just an ass. There is at least one video of him explaining how to defeat liberals in a discussion where he explains.how to set up strawman arguments and such. Well if that's how you want to win a debate be my geust but I'm going to call him an ass if he does so.

If you base your evaluation of someone on a single point of discussion you don't like, it's hard to see how anyone on the planet could come out looking good. If such a video exists I'd guess it's a reaction to some of the strawman questions he faces on a regular bases in the various talks and lectures he gives. Like say for example someone says or infers Americans have no regulations that's why they have no healthcare, unions or minimum wage.

Got a link to the video by the way?

 

[Mr Tree]

If you base your evaluation of someone on a single point of discussion you don't like, it's hard to see how anyone on the planet could come out looking good. If such a video exists I'd guess it's a reaction to some of the strawman questions he faces on a regular bases in the various talks and lectures he gives. Got a link to the video by the way?

I'm going to look for the link this evening (in a few hours).

I find shapiro to be an ass for multiple reasons. Whenever something in someones life is going bad it's usually his default it's due to the persons own responsability.

He just is the opposite of those people who just blame white males. I do watch him it's important to hear the ideas you don't nessecarilly agree with. Doesn't mean I can't have an opinion about him as such I find him an ass.

You probably don't really like some speakers either no problem we have diffrent opinions. As long as you and I try to articulate them properly (something you do imo) we can disagree in a respectfull manner.

Edit: he also once said something like socialism is an egoistic ideologie. This is just inaccurate. It really depends how you look at the world when you look at it from a me needing things perspective socialism is rather egoistic. Take my father for example a rightwinger who started to vote for socialism the second his retirement was approaching. When you look at it from a view society needing things it becomes the opposite and becomes a very empathic worls view. I'm ok sharing my money through taxes with people who need it.
I'd have to say that was the idea that pulled me over the edge to just outright think he's an ass.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I'm going to look for the link this evening (in a few hours).

I find shapiro to be an ass for multiple reasons. Whenever something in someones life is going bad it's usually his default it's due to the persons own responsability.

Is that your position or is that one of his positions you don't agree with? It's not clear.

He just is the opposite of those people who just blame white males. I do watch him it's important to hear the ideas you don't nessecarilly agree with. Doesn't mean I can't have an opinion about him as such I find him an ass.

I don't see how personal responsibility which means holding yourself accountable for your personal decisions is the same as blaming an entire sex of a race or any other large block of human beings. Sounds like the exact opposite to me. Please explain though.

You probably don't really like some speakers either no problem we have diffrent opinions. As long as you and I try to articulate them properly (something you do imo) we can disagree in a respectfull manner.

So calling someone an ass is disagreeing in a respectful manner. Gotcha. Is that what Ben does and you're just emulating him?

Edit: he also once said something like socialism is an egoistic ideologie. This is just inaccurate. It really depends how you look at the world when you look at it from a me needing things perspective socialism is rather egoistic. Take my father for example a rightwinger who started to vote for socialism the second his retirement was approaching. When you look at it from a view society needing things it becomes the opposite and becomes a very empathic worls view. I'm ok sharing my money through taxes with people who need it.

How can it be inaccurate if you admit it depends on how you look at the world? So what exactly did he say, what specific points did he make and what specifically do you disagree with? By the way, where do you draw the limit at sharing money with people who need it? 30%? 40% 50% 60% 70%? More? What is your limit? Right now I pay 13% sales tax on everything except food and a couple of necessities, almost 50% on fuel, property taxes on my property, income taxes on business income and personal income taxes in case there's some money left over the government forgot to collect. Oh, and after I pay all those taxes, on the money I managed to save and invest, I pay taxes again when I show a gain or profit, even though I've already paid massive taxes on the money that was invested.

What is your limit? How high will you go?

I'd have to say that was the idea that pulled me over the edge to just outright think he's an ass.

Respectful disagreement.

 

[Mr Tree]

Is that your position or is that one of his positions you don't agree with? It's not clear.
I don't see how personal responsibility which means holding yourself accountable for your personal decisions is the same as blaming an entire sex of a race or any other large block of human beings. Sounds like the exact opposite to me. Please explain though.

So calling someone an ass is disagreeing in a respectful manner. Gotcha. Is that what Ben does and you're just emulating him?

How can it be inaccurate if you admit it depends on how you look at the world? So what exactly did he say, what specific points did he make and what specifically do you disagree with? By the way, where do you draw the limit at sharing money with people who need it? 30%? 40% 50% 60% 70%? More? What is your limit? Right now I pay 13% sales tax on everything except food and a couple of necessities, almost 50% on fuel, property taxes on my property, income taxes on business income and personal income taxes in case there's some money left over the government forgot to collect. Oh, and after I pay all those taxes, on the money I managed to save and invest, I pay taxes again when I show a gain or profit, even though I've already paid massive taxes on the money that was invested.

What is your limit? How high will you go?

Respectful disagreement.

Point 1 it's how I interpret his opinion I might be wrong. Please do explain.

Point 2 they both are about the same subject and both are the unnuanced ends of the spectrum you can be on. It's either you own responsability or it's due to someone else. SJW's say it's all someone else his fault, Shapiro argues it's all personal responsability. Both the unnuanced ends of the spectrum. I believe it's a combination of both.

Point3 I'm not really arguing with Shapiro currently, in a debate I wouldn't result to calling him an ass. You've never called someone an ass?

Point 4 it was inaccurate as he only uses the point of view showing it to be egoistical. Only showing the part of 1n idea as to make it coincide with your ideas imo is showing the idea in an inaccurate way. Isn't it?

How high? Wel currently I pay about 30-40% on my income before that my boss has payed taxes on it.
2/3 of the gasprice is taxes I smoke so thats mostly taxes. Everything you buy is taxed for added value 6% for tjing you can't mis (and that list is **** as not even electricity is included) 21% for all other 'luxury' items.

I'm ok I get by I have no issue giving this money to my government as long as I get things in return. Something that was the case under previous socialistic governments but sadly currently isn't under our rightwing neolib government.

What are you prepared to give to the government so they can implement things to help the community?

Respectfull disagreement.. I'm having a disagreement with you am I calling you an ass? I just genuinly dislike Shapiro and won't be resctfull about a persson who frames all leftists as over the top SJW's and actually nazis because you know nazis where socialsists... (again an argument he uses and only ises the things that fit his worldview ignoring ideas not compromisable with common current leftist views)

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I seem to find his point of view hypocritical and that seems to be the joke to me.

Yes I got that, which is why I posed the question I did. Because the effort at trying to make Shapiro sound hypocritical based on his own identity, that he has as far as I can see, never tied to his political outcry.

I don't like identety politics but I love my jewish identity (an identity he didn't even choose are never had to do something for to be achieved). Ow yeah and I love a state based on the identity of being jewish but I hate identity politics.

He supports Jews and their homeland...you don't have to be political to do that. So to infer that it must be identity politics and he's equally a hypocrit in return is quite loaded. And seems like a cheap way to try and get at the guy.

Or am I missing something.

Seems to be my question considering the person who posted it and the person I'm asking directly for their reasoning and personal understanding has yet to give any insight.

On top of that shapiro is just an ass. There is at least one video of him explaining how to defeat liberals in a discussion where he explains.how to set up strawman arguments and such. Well if that's how you want to win a debate be my geust but I'm going to call him an ass if he does so.

Okay so because he's an ass this is justification? I don't see that as a real justification. "Ah I really hate this guy's attitude, and I wouldn't mind someone making a comic that mislabels him so others unknowingly latch on and believe it"

I mean there are a lot of asses in the world, don't really see the reason to take the time to stoop to some silly level to try and at best annoy their base. I don't agree with Shapiro's view of politics fully but I agree less with people passing BS, joking or not. As I said if there is something there that is tangible to make the joke/comic funny by all means clue me in.

 

[Mr Tree]

Yes I got that, which is why I posed the question I did. Because the effort at trying to make Shapiro sound hypocritical based on his own identity, that he has as far as I can see, never tied to his political outcry.



He supports Jews and their homeland...you don't have to be political to do that. So to infer that it must be identity politics and he's equally a hypocrit in return is quite loaded. And seems like a cheap way to try and get at the guy.



Seems to be my question considering the person who posted it and the person I'm asking directly for their reasoning and personal understanding has yet to give any insight.



Okay so because he's an ass this is justification? I don't see that as a real justification. "Ah I really hate this guy's attitude, and I wouldn't mind someone making a comic that mislabels him so others unknowingly latch on and believe it"

I mean there are a lot of asses in the world, don't really see the reason to take the time to stoop to some silly level to try and at best annoy their base. I don't agree with Shapiro's view of politics fully but I agree less with people passing BS, joking or not. As I said if there is something there that is tangible to make the joke/comic funny by all means clue me in.

Let's start with the ass comment it wasn't meant as a justification. It's my opinion of the person.

Well I think to see what we see diffrently.
Imo supporting a jewish state (a state based on the jewish identity) is identity politics he's in favour of a state based on identity.

Uou seem to disagree with that.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Let's start with the ass comment it wasn't meant as a justification. It's my opinion of the person.

Well I think to see what we see diffrently.
Imo supporting a jewish state (a state based on the jewish identity) is identity politics he's in favour of a state based on identity.

Uou seem to disagree with that.

That's like me saying that I'm glad Mexico exist cause I'm half Mexican or my mother is Mexican... So because of such I dabble in the identity politics of not only Mexico but its social-economic issues it has with America?

I disagree with the idea that just because someone has heritage or ethnicity based on a region and they recognize that region for such, they somehow are not directly mired in their politics. I also disagree with the idea that even if they do that somehow it is unequivocally related to their said heritage. Now if he had said it like you seem to think or paint it, then sure you have a point and he is hypocritical. I've seen some of his stuff, and other than wearing a kippah, I've not seen him make a big deal on his Jewish background and/or tie it to the nation state of the Jewish people.

 

[VolkswagenX]

Seems to be my question considering the person who posted it and the person I'm asking directly for their reasoning and personal understanding has yet to give any insight.

Don't feel like getting into an argument in the political cartoon/image/meme thread. Some people get it, some people don't.. This page had zero political cartoons, images of meme's up until now...

 

[UKMikey]

If such a video exists I'd guess it's a reaction to some of the strawman questions he faces on a regular bases in the various talks and lectures he gives. Like say for example someone says or infers Americans have no regulations that's why they have no healthcare, unions or minimum wage.

Have you a link to a post which actually tries to make this point?

The one I read directly answered a post which tried to argue that regulations were in themselves inherently bad and made no such point.

Not sure what it has to do with Ben Shapiro either.

Don't feel like getting into an argument in the political cartoon/image/meme thread. Some people get it, some people don't.. This page had zero political cartoons, images of meme's up until now...

Liberals are apparently fair game but when you start to attack the darlings of the right, make sure you're wearing a hard hat.

 

[TexRex]

Don't feel like getting into an argument in the political cartoon/image/meme thread.

Well, let's look at the first two sentences of the thread:

Let's argue about/with some political cartoons. Intellectual discussion is frowned upon in the funny picture thread.

Discussion is practically mandated, and while you're not obligated to initiate discussion about others' posts, it's appreciated if you explain assertions made by cartoons you post, as you interpret them, should questions be asked.

Liberals are apparently fair game but when you start to attack the darlings of the right, make sure you're wearing a hard hat.

I mean...we're all peace-and-love long-hairs, right? Any attacks from us are deemed hypocrital and open us up to further attacks.

¯\_(ツ)_/ ¯

 

[TenEightyOne]

This page had zero political cartoons, images of meme's up until now...

Nope, look back through the thread for plenty of cartoons.

You didn't reply to this, incidentally:

People should be more tolerant of someone's national identity, no?

 

[VolkswagenX]

Well, let's look at the first two sentences of the thread:

.
Discussion is practically mandated, and while you're not obligated to initiate discussion about others' posts, it's appreciated if you explain assertions made by cartoons you post, as you interpret them, should questions be asked.

I will change my statement in this post.

I don't feel like having an argument in the political cartoon/image/meme thread. I will go back to enjoying other people's post political cartoon/image/meme in this thread. I have removed the post from this thread.

People should be more tolerant of someone's national identity, no?

I don't know, should we? Do you mean all national identities?

Liberals are apparently fair game but when you start to attack the darlings of the right, make sure you're wearing a hard hat.

Bad ideas are bad ideas. doesn't really matter to me if they come from the left or the right

 

[UKMikey]

Bad ideas are bad ideas. doesn't really matter to me if they come from the left or the right

No argument from me here, but you were talking about the pages of reactions and lack of cartoons and memes and so was I.

 

[TenEightyOne]

People should be more tolerant of someone's national identity, no?

I don't know, should we? Do you mean all national identities?

I don't know, they were your words originally.

To me "national identity" is an idea... I'm not sure we can or should judge people by their thoughts, I think it's better to judge them by their actions either in public or against others.

Bad ideas are bad ideas. doesn't really matter to me if they come from the left or the right

Quite, but see the above.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I will change my statement in this post.

I don't feel like having an argument in the political cartoon/image/meme thread. I will go back to enjoying other people's post political cartoon/image/meme in this thread. I have removed the post from this thread.

Seems like a rinse and repeat of what you said when quoting me, not much difference if any. No one is stopping you from enjoying said images, it just so happens that one of the images you posted was quite reaching in the message it was trying to convey. I simply wanted to know what your end game was, clearly it was to not be asked.

Bad ideas are bad ideas. doesn't really matter to me if they come from the left or the right

Considering I'm not a liberal or conservative, I don't really understand this anymore than your initial "cartoon". I simply called you out on something, you probably were correctly called out on. And rather than admit or even argue the point you said "nothing to see here, ignore it all but let me cast snarky remarks before doing so" (interpretative, don't take it as a literal quote of yourself).

Most of the people that are frequent contributes to the OCE threads know my stance on politics and how I hate both parties equally but also dislike propaganda/bias in favor of one over the other.

 

[Dennisch]

 

[Mr Tree]

That's like me saying that I'm glad Mexico exist cause I'm half Mexican or my mother is Mexican... So because of such I dabble in the identity politics of not only Mexico but its social-economic issues it has with America?

I disagree with the idea that just because someone has heritage or ethnicity based on a region and they recognize that region for such, they somehow are not directly mired in their politics. I also disagree with the idea that even if they do that somehow it is unequivocally related to their said heritage. Now if he had said it like you seem to think or paint it, then sure you have a point and he is hypocritical. I've seen some of his stuff, and other than wearing a kippah, I've not seen him make a big deal on his Jewish background and/or tie it to the nation state of the Jewish people.

There is a clear diffrence between a state and a state based on a religious identity. Or at least in my opinion. This is what makes supporting Israel identity politics. And leads me to believe your analogy with mexico is flawed.

Delete

Why would you delete a meme...

I found it i'll be as kind to post it again later tonight

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

There is a clear diffrence between a state and a state based on a religious identity. Or at least in my opinion. This is what makes supporting Israel identity politics. And leads me to believe your analogy with mexico is flawed.

It's a state based on a group of people that beyond the religion, ethnically recognize themselves as Israeli, are you saying that Israeli's aren't a ethnical group of people? Nor are the Jewish ancestry? To me it would seem they are and thus someone of same/similar ethnic or heritage who recognizes a nation that people of the same background hail from, isn't a political one. What about Jews who are not religious but still recognize themselves as Jewish because of heritage, culture and fraternity?

It would seem to me you think that people of Israel or by extension Jewish descendants are an ethnic people but a random existence of religious followers. That's quite a line of thought, because others in history have used that reasoning as justification to "cleanse" regions. And even if they weren't a ethnic group, I still find it hard to see how one is using identity politics simply by supporting them.

For example Jerry Seinfeld is quite the democratic donor, and a stark opposite I'd say to Shapiro. Yet he too support his heritage and visits Israel and seems to support the culture and fraternity of the heritage he knows by supporting said nation.

 

[TenEightyOne]

There is a clear diffrence between a state and a state based on a religious identity. Or at least in my opinion. This is what makes supporting Israel identity politics. And leads me to believe your analogy with mexico is flawed.

I think you've bound a few separate things together that don't necessarily bear direct compariosn.

A state can be different from a state-based-on-religious-identity, agreed. It's not always so simple though. Look at the difference between "states" in the Middle East, some are recognised internationally by their border descriptions while those same descriptions aren't recognised by groups of society - their own definitions can transcend/ignore those descriptions. Look at the wide philosophical differences between States in the United States, look at the differences between regions/countries/peoples in Spain... I could go on.

All expressions of identity can be seen as political depending on one's viewpoint and that's certainly true of "national" identity. I infer that you see "identity politics" as a Bad Thing but I'm not sure why. I'm Yorkshire, Norse (genetically), English and British. Each of those has a different meaning to me. Not the UK though, I don't recognise that confederation or its monarch, but I digress. If I support the ideas of the "nations" or "people" that I "belong to" then why is that a good or bad thing? If I don't support the idea of a nation that I'm seemingly supposed to belong to then why is that a bad thing?

Surely it's the actions I undertake in those beliefs that I should be judged by? After all, I could consider myself Aryan (really a religious/cultural affiliation) without having to be Brittun Furst or Nashnul Acshun.

 

[VolkswagenX]

I don't know, they were your words originally.

My words? Where?

To me "national identity" is an idea... I'm not sure we can or should judge people by their thoughts, I think it's better to judge them by their actions either in public or against others.

I don't understand why you keep brought up national identity and your idea of national identity. Your idea (or mine) of national identity is not the subject of the meme I posted.

Seems like a rinse and repeat of what you said when quoting me, not much difference if any. No one is stopping you from enjoying said images, it just so happens that one of the images you posted was quite reaching in the message it was trying to convey.

I don't think you got the message of the meme I posted.

I simply wanted to know what your end game was, clearly it was to not be asked.

You should have asked that from the beginning. Instead you gave me this:

Are you claiming (due to extension of posting the picture) that because Shapiro is Jewish that is why he's conservative?

The meme is not about Shapiro being Jewish and/or conservative. It's also not about my views on identity politics and national identity. It's about Shapiro's hypocrisy when it comes to identity politics.

Considering I'm not a liberal or conservative, I don't really understand this anymore than your initial "cartoon". I simply called you out on something, you probably were correctly called out on. And rather than admit or even argue the point you said "nothing to see here, ignore it all but let me cast snarky remarks before doing so" (interpretative, don't take it as a literal quote of yourself).

Called me out on what? You didn't understand the meme and I didn't feel like getting in a pointless argument about something we clearly disagree on. I don't enjoy arguing with people. I don't think it's snarky.

Most of the people that are frequent contributes to the OCE threads know my stance on politics and how I hate both parties equally but also dislike propaganda/bias in favor of one over the other.

I agree! It's what the meme is kind of about..

Why would you delete a meme...

I found it i'll be as kind to post it again later tonight

I got you

 

[TenEightyOne]

My words? Where?

Here. I was interested in whether you thought it was okay for some people to have a national identity that's partly at odds with their apparent origins or not.

I don't understand why you keep brought up national identity and your idea of national identity. Your idea (or mine) of national identity is not the subject of the meme I posted.

The cartoon you posted is apparently conflicting identity politics being bad with having an identity associated with a nation - surely you saw that?

...meme...message of the meme...the meme...you didn't understand the meme...it's what the meme is kind of about..

S'a cartoon, not enough replicants or social morphology for being a meme

 

[Rage Racer]

Spoiler: Natalia Poklonskaya at Putin's inauguration

 

[TheCracker]

So Ricky Gervais was invited too?

 

[TexRex]

So Ricky Gervais was invited too?

In fairness, he's not nearly so...uhm...rotund.

 

[VolkswagenX]

Here. I was interested in whether you thought it was okay for some people to have a national identity that's partly at odds with their apparent origins or not.

Can't tell if you're being serious, but I was being sarcastic in that post.

The cartoon you posted is apparently conflicting identity politics being bad with having an identity associated with a nation - surely you saw that?

The cartoon is not about identity politics being good or bad. It's about Shapiro's views on identity politics.

S'a cartoon, not enough replicants or social morphology for being a meme

Sure

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

The meme is not about Shapiro being Jewish and/or conservative. It's also not about my views on identity politics and national identity. It's about Shapiro's hypocrisy when it comes to identity politics.
Called me out on what? You didn't understand the meme and I didn't feel like getting in a pointless argument about something we clearly disagree on. I don't enjoy arguing with people. I don't think it's snarky.

So why are you on a forum in the OCE of all places where arguments break out nearly every day in it? I wanted to simply make sure what the perspective was on the image, not that I didn't get it but rather it didn't make any sense.

As for Shapiro I'm still confused, did he do something recently?

I agree! It's what the meme is kind of about..

Showing bias against a certain party personality?

 

[VolkswagenX]

So why are you on a forum in the OCE of all places where arguments break out nearly every day in it?

I enjoy reading about current events and different opinions. I also enjoy having respectful discussions about current events and different opinions. I don't enjoy having a pointless back and forth argument over something we don't agree on. I just don't understand why someone would like to just go on and on..

I wanted to simply make sure what the perspective was on the image, not that I didn't get it but rather it didn't make any sense.

That wasn't clear from your first reaction to my post.

As for Shapiro I'm still confused, did he do something recently?

Not that I know of and I don't think it matters.

Showing bias against a certain party personality?

Are we not allowed to point out the hypocrisy of a public political figure?

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I enjoy reading about current events and different opinions. I also enjoy having respectful discussions about current events and different opinions. I don't enjoy having a pointless back and forth argument over something we don't agree on. I just don't understand why someone would like to just go on and on..

So because someone wanted to clarify the perspective you were attempting with that image, that is somehow pointless to ask you for said clarification?
Doesn't really justify your point and again begs the question why attempt contributing when you somehow are worried about "pointless discussion" on what you post. No one has been disrespectful to you. Furthermore, I don't understand why people feel they can anonymously send stuff in on a forum that invites debate/discussion especially the OCE.

That wasn't clear from your first reaction to my post.

How so? I had a general idea of the point of the picture and simply wanted to make sure that was correct.

Not that I know of and I don't think it matters.

It may not matter to you, but typically the images you see in here have to do with something current, rather than just out of the blue "I think I'll make a satire just because". Which is why I asked, not to say you can't post stuff that isn't topical to current political themes.

Are we not allowed to point out the hypocrisy of a public political figure?

Sure most of us do it all the time, especially with Trump, which I enjoy because it is relevant and can be argued true. I simply didn't see the hypocrisy in your image, asked if perhaps you could provide some insight (still have yet to see that), and here we are.

 

[VolkswagenX]

 

[Liquid]