The Unofficial GT6 VS Project Cars Debate Thread (Read the Rules!)

[Johnnypenso]

Comparing games from different generation consoles from the same studio is one thing, but comparing different games from different studios across platform generations is another. It's like comparing a '63 Corvette to a Pagani Huayra. Different technologies from different time periods. Or how about comparing Schumacher to Fangio?

Which also makes me say, it's interesting how people compare games to GT but I rarely see any other games compared to each other. How about Forza 5 to PCars? Or Drive Club to Assetto Corsa? Whether you agree or not, all this proves to me is that GT is (or was) considered the defacto standard for all driving simulators by the majority of fans.

GT6 has the most sales by far so of course it's the game most games are compared to. As for the rest, console games tend to be compared to console games and pc sims to pc sims, it's just the way it is. That's why you see Forza vs. GT vs. (now) PCars vs. DC because they are on the same platform and console racers are most likely to crossover between them. PC racers tend to stick to pc although there is some crossover, but not nearly as much, just because of the sheer numbers. Forza, DC, GT, and now Project Cars are compared all over the place on GTPlanet, just type in the names in a search and there are hundreds of posts with multiple mentions of those names.

I think Gt is more hardcore simulator than Pjc

You mean in terms of physics or something else? How much time do you have on Project Cars so far and have you been playing with "real assists" or some other setup?. Wheel or controller?

 

[metramt8]

Homogeneus content, more tracks (many more), better sounds (a lot better), much better physics , better graphics (ok, it's past gen), all cars are full premium, all tracks with variable weather/time...

In addition, PCars is a true racing game.

I'm sure there are a lot of people here that have not tried it, the only thing that I'm agree with, is the number of street cars compared to GT.

Ok, I know that I'm on GTPanet but...

 

[Mr Grumpy]

I can join in now I've officially played P-Cars & although I didn't spend to much time playing with the settings I quickly turned off all aids except abs (using DS4) jumped in the M3 GT & took it for a spin against a full grid of 100% difficult AI.......

And came dead last or crashed out

But it was so immense, fresh & fun, and that was against the AI. I loved it & that is what I never got from GT (offline only of course) but I can only imagine that online is even better so regarding what games got better gfx or more cars or what platform its on I'm voting for the game that makes me smile & that my friends is P-Cars.

 

[NixxxoN]

...yet on the same page:

That's certainly a selective comparison: "the entire game aside, GT6 is better."

The gameplay in GT4 is great. The physics were a notable weak-spot even back then (GT4 being an understeery mess in general), but the gameplay still holds up quite well. It's a far cry from the condescending start you're thrown into when you first load up GT6. I replayed GT's 1 through 4 leading up to 6's release, and they all still have charm. GT4 also still manages to feel massive.

I have just pointed out that the graphics in GT6 feel more natural, I have not said GT6 is better because of it (even though I think GT6 is better, but for several other reasons)

GT6 has online, GT4 has not. So what I said makes sense. In my opinion in a game like this, online mode is by far the main thing, and the offline mode just becomes a routine to grab money and cars. The fun is online.

What you mean by gameplay then? In driving games physics and gameplay are pretty much the same if you ask me. Surely GT4 is a very long game, but its a very long game with primitive and unevolved physics. You simply can't go back and play GT4 when you're used to GT6 because you have enough of it in 5 minutes.

 

[Johnnypenso]

In my opinion in a game like this, online mode is by far the main thing, and the offline mode just becomes a routine to grab money and cars. The fun is online.

And that would be wrong even though it's your opinion. It wasn't hard to see here on GTP that the most excitement for Project Cars was centred around the offline portion of the game, specifically the career mode. Most of the posts are around offline gameplay. GT is the same. Offline is still king and likely will be forever in console gaming simply because online gameplay is too hit and miss and too dependent on other people for enjoyment. Offline you are in total control of your schedule and your driving experience and there's a huge appeal in that.

What you mean by gameplay then? In driving games physics and gameplay are pretty much the same if you ask me. Surely GT4 is a very long game, but its a very long game with primitive and unevolved physics. You simply can't go back and play GT4 when you're used to GT6 because you have enough of it in 5 minutes.

If you think physics and gameplay are pretty much the same, again, you are entitled to your opinion, but opinions can also be wrong and yours is. Having driven in arguably the 5 popular racing sims outside of Forza including GT and PCars, I can tell you definitively, that with a G27, they all have a very distinct feel to them and they all behave somewhat differently, some moreso than others. Note I'm not making any judgement on better or worse, that's a personal choice, but they are all very different. It's as clear as night and day, no argument at all really.

 

[David Talle]

Offline is still king and likely will be forever in console gaming simply because online gameplay is too hit and miss and too dependent on other people for enjoyment.

But the GT6 Online sub forum is very active though. The thing is career mode in pC is pretty new and will eventually get boring and on the other hand online series are being scheduled as we speak so it takes some time to run like it does on GT6.
I bet that in few months people won't talk too much about career mode anymore but probably the online will be much more active too.

If you think physics and gameplay are pretty much the same, again, you are entitled to your opinion, but opinions can also be wrong and yours is. Having driven in arguably the 5 popular racing sims outside of Forza including GT and PCars, I can tell you definitively, that with a G27, they all have a very distinct feel to them and they all behave somewhat differently, some moreso than others. Note I'm not making any judgement on better or worse, that's a personal choice, but they are all very different. It's as clear as night and day, no argument at all really.

Actually I think there's a misunderstanding, I think he was saying that gameplay is more or less the same as physics in a driving game not that all driving games have the same gameplay and physics. But I may be wrong.

 

[Johnnypenso]

But the GT6 Online sub forum is very active though. The thing is career mode in pC is pretty new and will eventually get boring and on the other hand online series are being scheduled as we speak so it takes some time to run like it does on GT6.
I bet that in few months people won't talk too much about career mode anymore but probably the online will be much more active too.


Actually I think there's a misunderstanding, I think he was saying that gameplay is more or less the same as physics in a driving game not that all driving games have the same gameplay and physics. But I may be wrong.

You could be right about the latter part. Semantically it could be either way.

 

[PowerSlide77]

To me PCars is the "best" game out there for motorsport lovers on console, they have different kind of racecars that can race against each other under the same rules, it has mechanical damage, a flag system, etc... GT doesn't have many racecars that can race with each other under the same rules, they only have outdated SuperGT and a only few GT3, too many championship missing from GT.

PCars has a better Race Track selection that will attract a lot more motorsports lovers and classic tracks lovers (such as Imola, Hockenheim, and other I can't think of right now), GT doesn't have these tracks, it only has a couple of them which isn't good enough but at least they have some, hopefully they'll bring more soon. ^^

However, GT has a lot more to offer to car enthusiasts who would be perfectly satisfied driving around on the grass to have fun with the cars they just customized without racing it once. GT allows you to drive a lot of classic cars, sadly a huge amount of them are standards but that's not the topic here.

None of these 2 games bring anything more to the table in terms of racing game, I think they're both aiming at different crouds to be honest, GT6 isn't quite enough for motorsports lovers, they're aiming at a much bigger croud which includes motorsport lovers, when PCars is clearly aiming at motorsports lovers. PCars will only bring something (different kind of motorsports) to motorsports lovers who only wants to race, that's what PCars is.

 

[David Talle]

PCars has a better Race Track selection that will attract a lot more motorsports lovers and classic tracks lovers (such as Imola, Hockenheim, and other I can't think of right now), GT doesn't have these tracks, it only has a couple of them which isn't good enough but at least they have some, hopefully they'll bring more soon. ^^

BUT... pCARS doesn't have Suzuka ! Nor Fuji...

But there is a selection of US tracks, american people must be pleased and I personally enjoy learning these tracks I don't know yet !
Hoping for Interlagos BTW !

 

[metramt8]

BUT... pCARS doesn't have Suzuka ! Nor Fuji...

But there is a selection of US tracks, american people must be pleased and I personally enjoy learning these tracks I don't know yet !
Hoping for Interlagos BTW !

Suzuka was in PCars like Sakitto, it was removed on final version due to licensing issues I think. It's possible to see it back again.

 

[Zlork]

PCars is cool but GT is better

I played on PS4 and my impressions on Project Cars :

- Graphically, it's ugly.
- Technically also : some big drop in framerate, clipping, aliasing, etc.
- AI completely stupid, it doesn't hesitate to **** you out and ignore the rules. It's a shame because it seems to attack you.
+ Good sound

+ Physics. Personally, I put GT6 above and Assetto Corsa, even above. But it's still good.
+ Course simulation. It's his theme, but it does it well

- Too little car, it's cruelly lacking in diversity
-/+ The tracks list is quite good - for me tracks list of GT6 is much better - but on modeling, it's very far from level of Polyphony Digital

- Banal career mode
+ Presence of Leaderboard

Project Cars gave me want to see GT7 !

 

[David Talle]

- Graphically, it's ugly.
- Technically also : some big drop in framerate, clipping, aliasing, etc.

The AI is arguable and quite random but for this 2 we didn't play the same game. Clearly not the most beautiful game ever, I'm sure Driveclub is a good step above not to mention PC gaming but "ugly" isn't a word that came to my mind.

Clipping, yes indeed, a lot in the mirrors mainly...

Aliasing ? Probably but it didn't catch my eye.
Frame rate, yes actually I had small drops from time to time (by rule of thumb I'd say down to about 40FPS), it happened few times in 30 cars WEC races, in certain corners when there's a lot of trafic. Other than that I honestly didn't notice serious drops.

Are you a PC gamer ? What did you expect from a console ?
All your points are valid and mostly true but you're harsh !

- Banal career mode

I guess that's a matter of taste. I like it, it doesn't deserve to be the highlight feature but it's immersive.
It's basically what GRID AS single player should've been.

 

[Terronium-12]

The discussions going on thus far are fine, I'm only stopping by to say one thing:

Please stop with the "...but this is GTPlanet" rhetoric. It is, quite honestly, the most daft rebuttal to any response I've seen in regards to the topic. So what if this is GTPlanet? If it were truly that transparent, this thread, and every other thread, forum, comment, private message/conversation, and status update like it would all be explicitly prohibited.

As you were.

 

[PowerSlide77]

BUT... pCARS doesn't have Suzuka ! Nor Fuji...

But there is a selection of US tracks, american people must be pleased and I personally enjoy learning these tracks I don't know yet !
Hoping for Interlagos BTW !

Yes, Suzuka and Fuji would be nice for a game like PCars, but to be honest, I'd much rather have all the tracks PCars has and not have Suzuka in GT6, even though Suzuka is one of my absolute favorite racetrack ever.

I always love to race on different tracks and mostly tracks that we don't usually see in racing games, that's why I would much rather have PCars' track selection than GT's track selection even though PCars would be missing Suzuka, Fuji.

 

[SVPSkins]

Backwards
Why not? It happens all the time with GT1-6. In fact, GT4 usually gets the most rave reviews in spite of being on a system that is less powerful than a microchip in a coffee maker these days. I don't see why we can't compare things like how the career(s) are structured, physics, audio, force feedback, atmosphere, tuning, accuracy of the car models etc.

comparing all the GT games is completely different. after are past im not going to say anything else.

 

[KilzoneStrife]

PCars seems more like a NFS Shift 3 to me, even the game engine. The way it chugs along, not sure how it can be called "sim" when it hits mid 30fps at times ..

 

[Terronium-12]

PCars seems more like a NFS Shift 3 to me, even the game engine. The way it chugs along, not sure how it can be called "sim" when it hits mid 30fps at times ..

What is this, I don't even...

 

[SlipZtrEm]

GT6 has online, GT4 has not. So what I said makes sense.

Yes, but like I said, with the most blatant case of cherry-picking yet seen.

In my opinion in a game like this, online mode is by far the main thing, and the offline mode just becomes a routine to grab money and cars. The fun is online.

Offline mode is a routine because PD has tried their damnedest to make it that way. There is no reason the offline portion of the game should be devoid of fun, nor is there any reason to suppose that going online, on its own, immediately makes a game fun.

I recognize you've been told this dozens of times, so it's unlikely to sink in this round: how you play games is not how everybody else plays games. While you see offline as unimportant, that view is not shared, and you are not an arbiter of what is and isn't fun. Say it with me now: options!

What you mean by gameplay then?

Let's see: a Sim Mode that had a far less linear approach, without the silly star system of GT6 (which was nothing but the XP system even Kaz said wasn't the best choice in GT5, with a new coat of paint). A used car dealership. An Arcade Mode that didn't feel like an afterthought. Driving Missions. A better Photo Mode. A better B-Spec Mode (and it didn't take 12 months to shoe-horn in). AI that somehow was more clever, in ways, than what we have in GT6, and certainly more of a challenge than the rabbit-chase we've got now.

In driving games physics and gameplay are pretty much the same if you ask me.

I'm not. Physics are an aspect of gameplay, but they're certainly not synonyms. What are your thoughts on Mario Kart?

Surely GT4 is a very long game, but its a very long game with primitive and unevolved physics. You simply can't go back and play GT4 when you're used to GT6 because you have enough of it in 5 minutes.

I can, because I have. I've regularly gone back to older GT games to replay them. Because they can be fun.

What you're suggesting (that only the newest iteration can be entertaining) is the same line of logic that would suggest you only choose the fastest car for every single race in GT6. Are you only driving the Red Bull cars?

Comparing games from different generation consoles from the same studio is one thing, but comparing different games from different studios across platform generations is another.

Why is one okay but the other isn't?

The interesting thing is a lot of the comparisons have very little to do with system power. Sure, graphics is an obvious talking point - and for better or worse, graphics still sell a lot of games these days - but things like GT's back-off-once-passed AI, or the rolling start rabbit race, or the small selection of offline events, are hardly due to a lack of horsepower under the PS3's hood.

Which also makes me say, it's interesting how people compare games to GT but I rarely see any other games compared to each other. How about Forza 5 to PCars? Or Drive Club to Assetto Corsa? Whether you agree or not, all this proves to me is that GT is (or was) considered the defacto standard for all driving simulators by the majority of fans.

...fans on GTPlanet. In the GT section. You're surprised?

There's a PCARS vs Forza thread. It's over in the relevant section.

 

[dice1998]

not sure how it can be called "sim" when it hits mid 30fps at times ..

 

[Johnnypenso]

comparing all the GT games is completely different. after are past im not going to say anything else.

Why is it different? People compare the gameplay between PS3 and PS2 for GT and the older console seems to stand up very well, often preferred. I can understand not comparing things that are hardware limited like number of cars on the track but why can't you compare gameplay, career modes and other things that are not hardware limited, between consoles?

 

[KilzoneStrife]

What is this, I don't even...

Is it too much to expect a NEXT GEN driving sim to be a solid 60 fps? GT 6 is more stable

 

[FoRiZon]

Is it too much to expect a NEXT GEN driving sim to be a solid 60 fps? GT 6 is more stable

Yes.

Did you even play both games? (or read about it).

To be fair, both has relatively stable fps.

 

[Terronium-12]

Is it too much to expect a NEXT GEN driving sim to be a solid 60 fps? GT 6 is more stable

And what does frame rate have to do with its qualification as a simulator?

 

[Zlork]

The AI is arguable and quite random but for this 2 we didn't play the same game. Clearly not the most beautiful game ever, I'm sure Driveclub is a good step above not to mention PC gaming but "ugly" isn't a word that came to my mind.

Clipping, yes indeed, a lot in the mirrors mainly...

Aliasing ? Probably but it didn't catch my eye.
Frame rate, yes actually I had small drops from time to time (by rule of thumb I'd say down to about 40FPS), it happened few times in 30 cars WEC races, in certain corners when there's a lot of trafic. Other than that I honestly didn't notice serious drops.

Are you a PC gamer ? What did you expect from a console ?
All your points are valid and mostly true but you're harsh !

I played on PS4 - I can't imagine XBone version -

I made a screenshot - without cheating -:

You think it's beautiful, you ?

Wait.... Even Deep Forest on GT6, looks better. No really, PCars is unclean and besides, there are framerate drops ....

I'm sorry but I'm sure PS4 can do much better than that.

 

[KilzoneStrife]

And what does frame rate have to do with its qualification as a simulator?

" "For a racing game, 60fps is hugely important," Tudor continued. "

" "What people don't know is that the physics underneath runs at 600 times a second. We measure the input you're doing on the
controller 250 times per second. Project Cars does that way more
than any other game - they're all doing that significantly lower. The
screen refreshes 60 times per second - we're measuring the tires, the physics, the suspension, all that stuff, 600 times."

www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014-09-28-project-cars-shooting-for-1080p-60fps-on-both-xbox-one-and-ps4


" You were pretty slavish as regards hitting 60fps, and did receive
some criticism from the community for apparently trading off some
poly budget to achieve it. In retrospect, are you glad you stuck to
the 60 frames goal, or could you have created something more
visually attractive if you’d lowered the target to, say, 30?
We get asked this question a lot by the press and my answer hasn’t
changed much from Forza 2 to Forza 3. The reality is that racing
games running at 30fps have to deal with visual shuttering artifacts
in the environment and backgrounds that fly by your field of view
when the car is traversing at high speeds. So you then go and mask
that using motion blur for your environments, which end up eating
into your GPU cycles, which take up resources from other features
you want on-track.
It really turns into a trade-off for the type of visual direction you’re
trying to achieve, and with Forza Motorsport, the visual style is
clear, crisp graphics, and highly-detailed environments and textures.
But in truth, the decision is less about graphics than feel. We
prioritize 60fps as an important feature because it gives the games
a feel you just can’t achieve at 30; for instance, the responsiveness
and feedback of the controls, or physics calculations and visual
manifestation of that on how we model our tire flex and body roll.
While those calculations are decoupled from the graphics and run as
high as 360 frames per second, we found that graphical framerate
impacts the feel of those systems as well. Simply put, we couldn’t
have achieved the experience we wanted if the game only ran at
30fps. I’m sure you would get a similar response from Infinity Ward
regarding Call of Duty."

www.vg247.com/2010/02/03/interview-forza-motorsports-dan-greenawalt/



YET, in 2009, SMStudios disagree? or LIE?

www.kotaku.com.au/2009/09/30fps-vs-60fps-is-negligible-says-need-for-speed-dev/

 

[super_gt]

+ Physics. Personally, I put GT6 above and Assetto Corsa, even above. But it's still good.

It is obvious that you will put GT6 physics above all games physics including best PC simulators.
In that case you will put GT7 physics above real world physics

 

[Zlork]

It is obvious that you will put GT6 physics above all games physics including best PC simulators.
In that case you will put GT7 physics above real world physics

I think you have not understood.

GT6 > Project Cars
Assetto Corsa >> Project Cars

Assetto Corsa > GT6 > Project Cars

But that's just my opinion.

 

[KilzoneStrife]

I think you have not understood.

GT6 > Project Cars
Assetto Corsa >> Project Cars

Assetto Corsa > GT6 > Project Cars

But that's just my opinion.

100% agree

 

[super_gt]

I think you have not understood.

OK 👍 my fault

 

[OHM_fusion]

That's something I've always noticed/thought about when it comes to GT5's and GT6's graphics. Games like PCars have much better graphics, but something about them that I can't really describe just seems to make them... artificial; you can tell they're from a video game by how it looks rather than the details (graphical detail, etc.). However, the lighting and everything in GT5 and GT6 just makes it seem like its real, even if graphics aren't as great/ you overlook the flaws (i.e. square sun, pixellated clouds).

This is pretty much what I think too. I won't comment on other aspects of PCars as I haven't played it, but it seems that the when it comes to the graphics the developers relied too much on effects. The material shaders are not that great to me. I think depth of field looks awkward in the game, and the cars have this weird shine to them. Yeah you have the god-rays on the trees and all those shiny visual effects but to me it's not nearly subtle enough, so you end up with graphics that look good but not in a natural or realistic kind of way. In that sense it kind of reminds me of Forza.