HKS racer
(Banned)
- 4,802
That's quite a big jump in the middle of nowhere. Why am I not surprised.
No comment.
The war on ISIS.
- Thread starter mister dog
- 3,128 comments
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- 166
- NEW JERSEY
- SlowFWD84
I feel that obama is an incompetent and weak leader.he refuses to acknowledge what the threat is because he insists on being politically correct.other leaders like from jordan and egypt have more machismo than obama.his policies are an embarrassment to the countless lives who have bled and died under much more capable leaders than him.i served three years under him and i personally know two purple heart recipients who would do a much better job as commander in chief.both are hatians.
From isis to the southern border,yes granted many previous presidents failed to secure the southrrn border but he could have done something lasting and at least secure the southern border would comple the isolationisim he insists on having
From isis to the southern border,yes granted many previous presidents failed to secure the southrrn border but he could have done something lasting and at least secure the southern border would comple the isolationisim he insists on having
- 4,464
- Azle, TX
- supermanfromazle
- SanjiHimura
BBC: ISIS burns alive another 45 people after capturing al-Baghdadi last week. The 320 Marines that are stationed nearby are now in grave danger.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-31502863
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-31502863
- 22,551
- Arizona
- HamiltonMP427
Wait so they're not a criminal organization because they don't the same crimes or have the same tailor as the Mafia or Yakuza, well forgive me. My understanding was that any group that committed criminal acts and had no gov't backing but were powerful enough to influence such entities were criminal organizations. Killing Christians or killing Joe for looking at your wife isn't all that different in the sense of how crimes work, reasoning may be different but end result is a dead person or few.
Also there have been plenty of documented moments where other criminal organizations used there means as a way of obtaining power beyond that of monetary amounts but just to have sheer power. This is the same here but it gets watered down with the idea of religion as a phrasing. At the end of the day you read between the lines and it's just power wanting more power.
Also if you don't want it to happen go publicly protest or start an in home group, but don't suggest or agree that the tax money me and others commit should be used to do it (beyond what's already currently being used to do as I've said and still not have answered). Main thing is those regions have the ability and weapons (given by yours truly the US of A) to do something about it, why we have people thinking we should play world police is beyond me.
- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
Attacking US Marines in a frontal assault would be the biggest mistake ISIS could ever make. I have to believe they aren't stupid enough to poke a sleeping tiger.
- 2,734
- Italy
- Yellohead
- Clydeyellow
But they ARE stupid enough. Remember, for them it's holy war. They don't care if they die in droves... At least, al-Baghdadi doesn't care. The number of deserters the ISIL beheaded in the last few weeks tell another story.
The ISIL is something bigger than a criminal organization. They are not acting in the shadows, breaking the law of a State that is somewhat capable to enforce it. They have conquered territories through military action, and now they make their own rules. They are the government - although a government who has no international recognition, and which dabbles in several illegal activities outside of their claimed jurisdiction.
It's all semantics, really. But semantics are important, despite common belief, especially in political and judicial matters.
- 38,876
- Application hell
- MP-Omnis
Y'know what they need if they attack our Marines? I'm thinking a C5 Galaxy full of 30mm ammo flown with a wing of A-10s hooked up to that supply of bullets as they would a refueling boom.
That or enough napalm to turn the sands into glass.
- 1,824
- California
- 22,551
- Arizona
- HamiltonMP427
If they provoke those Marines over there I think that 320 of those Devil Dogs is enough to destroy all of ISIS.
Seriously, I think DoD would finally get up and end this crap once and for all if Marines get involved over there.
Like they did with Al Qaeda...yeah. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure they could do damage to that unit that messes with them but then you've just given more resolve to them and the next group who comes up in the media 3-5 years from now. Not like the DoD isn't doing something that's pretty much on a massive scale and safer to U.S. interests and troops.
Maybe it's because I live in a border state or also for a good amount of time a border town, but what for example certain large groups in mexico do, are not in the shadows. They're quite public about it and it was only a couple years ago the popular thing to talk about.
As for the government, they're not a national government of any nation, they may have taken over regions and put them into dispute or disarray, but then again the same could have been said about other places at one point in history due to also having major terrorist acts occur.
I mean I've yet to see them be elected (like the Muslim Brotherhood or Hamas) or just outright take over (Hezbollah). Funny thing is people make a big huge commotion over this (due to it being media driven), yet don't do the same when groups like I mentioned take over regions of their nations or heck the groups that have been doing it for a long time in Africa. That have just as twisted ideas. I mean it's funny these threads are only made (mostly) when it's highly media driven for people to put their "bleeding hearts" on display. Yet I ask a simple question of what constitutional reason is there to have troops deploy and deal with such a group, and no one gives an answer. Other than the emotional or knee jerk response. "Did you see them cut off that person's head", yeah and I saw Al Qaeda do it too and yet they still exist. Then again history does tend to repeat itself, so maybe those wanting deployed troops will get their wish.
Dotini
(Banned)
- 15,742
- Seattle
- CR80_Shifty
In the recorded history of mankind on Earth, nations and more lately democracies are a recent development of the last few hundred years. Before that, kings ruled by right of conquest. So it is a question as to whether nations and democracies are here to stay. Past, present and likely future, "might makes right", and determines history's winners.
The bottom-line constitutional justification for US intervention in the middle east, from the dripping jaws of the most avid of our politicians, is that we are threatened by terrorist attacks to the homeland a la 9/11/01, and so in fact we must go abroad to slay dragons before they slay us here. Neither congress nor the people need to consent, though that might be helpful. At the moment, it would appear the ISIS dragon is growing too fast and too big to be slain by available conventional armies, so we adopt drone and aerial warfare to suppress the monster. Some cheery day, we will have a vast army of AK-47-proof robots to run unchecked across the landscape and cut our enemies at home and abroad to shreds, then we needn't give the matter a second thought.
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- 38,876
- Application hell
- MP-Omnis
If they provoke those Marines over there I think that 320 of those Devil Dogs is enough to destroy all of ISIS.
Seriously, I think DoD would finally get up and end this crap once and for all if Marines get involved over there.
It's not so simple as ending it once a for all. This new enemy-- this new generation of warfare-- when it cannot fight against a dominating conventional force, it will most likely resort to terrorist acts against it. I think that is the fear at the pentagon.
- 1,824
- California
KSaiyu
(Banned)
- 2,822
Say what you want about them, they are not stupid:
Islamic State 'planning to use Libya as gateway to Europe'
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/islamic-state/11418966/Islamic-State-planning-to-use-Libya-as-gateway-to-Europe.html
Islamic State 'planning to use Libya as gateway to Europe'
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/islamic-state/11418966/Islamic-State-planning-to-use-Libya-as-gateway-to-Europe.html
- 4,464
- Azle, TX
- supermanfromazle
- SanjiHimura
Stripes: 4000 US troops are being shipped to Kuwait while Congress weighs war declaration on ISIS. The soldiers, largely the 3rd Brigade Combat Team from Fort Carson, will serve for the USCENTCOM Middle East, and will be the first soldiers in battle should combat forces be needed in the region.
Many of the soldiers serving the 3rd Brigade have already served in at least one of the unit's four combat tours in Iraq.
http://woundedamericanwarrior.com/4000-u-s-troops-head-to-kuwait-for-possible-showdown-with-isis-2/#
Many of the soldiers serving the 3rd Brigade have already served in at least one of the unit's four combat tours in Iraq.
http://woundedamericanwarrior.com/4000-u-s-troops-head-to-kuwait-for-possible-showdown-with-isis-2/#
- 22,551
- Arizona
- HamiltonMP427
In the recorded history of mankind on Earth, nations and more lately democracies are a recent development of the last few hundred years. Before that, kings ruled by right of conquest. So it is a question as to whether nations and democracies are here to stay. Past, present and likely future, "might makes right", and determines history's winners.Very poetic and dances around the question.
The bottom-line constitutional justification for US intervention in the middle east, from the dripping jaws of the most avid of our politicians, is that we are threatened by terrorist attacks to the homeland a la 9/11/01, and so in fact we must go abroad to slay dragons before they slay us here. Neither congress nor the people need to consent, though that might be helpful. At the moment, it would appear the ISIS dragon is growing too fast and too big to be slain by available conventional armies, so we adopt drone and aerial warfare to suppress the monster. Some cheery day, we will have a vast army of AK-47-proof robots to run unchecked across the landscape and cut our enemies at home and abroad to shreds, then we needn't give the matter a second thought.
Once again full of whimsy. No there is no fact that we must go abroad and slay some metaphorical dragon. Once again if you believe Western (U.S) propaganda that's you, are these guys bad, yes. Is there proof that they are something that could destroy our interests and an invasion is the only key to stopping them beyond the methods (as I've said for the tenth time). Also it's not that they're too big, it's the right method to use, because deploying troops to several nations that have major factions is a bit unrealistic (beyond Special Forces) and unnecessary. This has been the tried and true method of disposing of people with out sending men and women to fight another nation-less enemy in vain a la Iraq or a la Afghanistan.
Also might doesn't make right, if it did then we wouldn't be having this discussion in the first place.
- 29,009
- Glasgow
- GTP_Mars
Dotini
(Banned)
- 15,742
- Seattle
- CR80_Shifty
Here is an influential article on ISIS and what it wants. http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2015/02/what-isis-really-wants/384980/
This article is currently a hot item of discussion on TV, radio and internet forums.
Subtitled "The Islamic State is no mere collection of psychopaths. It is a religious group with carefully considered beliefs, among them that it is a key agent of the coming apocalypse. Here’s what that means for its strategy—and for how to stop it", this article has caused me to revise some of my thinking about ISIS.
Unfortunately, an interpretation of Islam was and is the inspiration for the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria.
This article is currently a hot item of discussion on TV, radio and internet forums.
Subtitled "The Islamic State is no mere collection of psychopaths. It is a religious group with carefully considered beliefs, among them that it is a key agent of the coming apocalypse. Here’s what that means for its strategy—and for how to stop it", this article has caused me to revise some of my thinking about ISIS.
Unfortunately, an interpretation of Islam was and is the inspiration for the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria.
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- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
I didn't read the article so I'm not directly responding to that, but I have no doubt about the ambitions of ISIS and it's to establish an Islamic Caliphate in the Middle East. IMO it has little to do with religion and everything to do with power and control, but the end result is the same. They see a power vacuum in Lybia and Iraq and want to move in and wipe out all the competition and take over. They don't want a town or two, or a province or region, they want the whole thing. I don't think it's possible to do this sort of thing with most of the world including the surrounding nations against you, but the effort will result in 10's of thousands of lost lives and unspeakable suffering if they aren't stopped sooner rather than later.
- 38,876
- Application hell
- MP-Omnis
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KSaiyu
(Banned)
- 2,822
Soooo you think once they have their caliphate in the Middle East they will call it quits and be happy with just that?
Interesting....
Joel
Premium
- 8,141
- Halifax, NS
- Noob616
He said "they want the whole thing", and then later said it's probably not possible when they're surrounded by enemies. As in they're not going to stop but they will be stopped if they continue trying to expand.
Right now they're expanding their caliphate in Iraq, and Syria, with eyes on Libya. Not exactly nations that are going to be able to put up a well coordinated resistance. If they continue trying to expand beyond that, it's going to end very poorly for them if they start threatening Saudi or Iranian territory, to say nothing of Jordan or Turkey.
The implications of the article @Dotini posted are that because of their beliefs about the caliphate and their believed righteousness, they're likely to continue pursuing actions that are counterproductive. There's certainly a lot of realpolitik involved, but because of the foundation of ISIS as a group they won't follow a strictly rational approach. Godwin's law, I know, but just because the main reason for Hitler beginning WW2 was to conquer Europe, that doesn't mean that his beliefs about the Aryan race and ethnic cleansing weren't a part of how and why he did certain things.
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- 1,824
- California
I'm actually kind of afraid because in a worst case scenario, ISIS will invade Europe through the Mediterranean or through Turkey, and the whole world will explode. It's not about victory or loss at that point-- it's about how many people are thoughtlessly killed and caught in the crossfire. A conflict of that sort would also displace many, many people who have nowhere to go after being pushed out of their homes. It's already gone far enough.
ExigeEvan
Premium
- 17,192
@Not_A_Guest - In reality it's much harder to run around Europe in a dish dash, sandles, AK and pretend you're a non-combatant than it is do so in Iraq/Afghanistan/Syria where there is tremendous difficulty in separating non-combatants from the civilian population.
Even in Northern Ireland, it was still relatively easy to spot a 'dicker' than it is in Iraq/Afghanistan.
@Dennisch - Undoubtedly a capable, well equipped and strong army. But why so reluctant to defend a buffer space outside of their borders?
Even in Northern Ireland, it was still relatively easy to spot a 'dicker' than it is in Iraq/Afghanistan.
@Dennisch - Undoubtedly a capable, well equipped and strong army. But why so reluctant to defend a buffer space outside of their borders?
