The war on ISIS.

  • Thread starter mister dog
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prisonermonkeys
Take a closer look at my post. You'll see the joke.
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I think yours makes the most appropriate acronym...but you know it would never fly. The feminists would be up in arms, the feminism thread in GTP would be awash with posts both celebrating and denouncing...people will get banned...it would be a mess. :lol:
 
I will post this from my Facebook minus the swears.

Well done Japan. You didn't directly respond to the beheadings but you give the terrorists legitimacy anyway by taking away peoples passports. Well done.
 
What do you want to happen? Let people travel to the **** hole that is the caliphate, and let them return all mentally scarred and trained to kill?

They should make people who want to fight for IS persona non grata in the rest of the "free" world.
 
Dennisch
What do you want to happen? Let people travel to the **** hole that is the caliphate, and let them return all mentally scarred and trained to kill?

They should make people who want to fight for IS persona non grata in the rest of the "free" world.
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Let them go and then revoke their passport.
 
Dennisch
They should make people who want to fight for IS persona non grata in the rest of the "free" world.
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They are. Yes I understand why they are doing it but they might as well retaliate now if they are cutting passports. Of course they can't due to law.
squadops
Aren't they restricting travel in order to protect citizens from harm rather than out of fear of breeding ISIS fighters?

http://news.yahoo.com/japan-seizes-passport-journalist-trying-visit-syria-reports-081511517.html
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Yes but read my post on legitimacy. All the terrorists have to claim is that they won't allow free travel and are thus evil.
 
haitch40
They are. Yes I understand why they are doing it but they might as well retaliate now if they are cutting passports.
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Maybe they should. Maybe a lot more countries should join in and just obliterate everything and everyone who fights for IS. And when they're done they should do the same in Africa with Boko Haram.

Show those who think alike that you shouldn't behave like some medieval moron.

haitch40
All the terrorists have to claim is that they won't allow free travel and are thus evil.
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That also means that someone needs to take them and their ideas serious.
 
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I read your post and wasn't responding to you directly, of course no one should ever give into or give any ground to, or even give recognition to A.-wipes such as ISIS. Just pointing out for the posts following yours ;)
 
haitch40
They are. Yes I understand why they are doing it but they might as well retaliate now if they are cutting passports. Of course they can't due to law.

Yes but read my post on legitimacy. All the terrorists have to claim is that they won't allow free travel and are thus evil.
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If they were never recognized as a actual country to begin with, then they have no chance to make it stick. Besides, most freedom fighters today, and I am using the term loosely here, travel to ISIS through a third party country anyways, so by itself tracking Jihadis is a bit harder to do than most people think.

If anything, Japan is being aggressive in protecting civilians from those butchers, and I don't blame them.
 
There is a very politically interesting vote looming in Congress over the first AUMF bill in 13 years.
 
Dotini
There is a very politically interesting vote looming in Congress over the first AUMF bill in 13 years.
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That would amount to a hill of horse dung. These animals know that Obama won't send an army to fight for the Christians and the Kurds that are refugees or being executed because of their faith, and that is what the situation calls for.

By the way, CNN is allegedly reporting that the recent hostage that was killed by Jordanian airstrikes was likely been forced into be wed. This, according to counter-terrorism officials. News-AU is also reporting that ISIS didn't value her as a hostage, thus the lack of demands for her.

http://defund.com/us-hostage-kayla-...o-marry/?utm_source=fnot1&utm_medium=facebook
 
Sanji Himura
If they were never recognized as a actual country to begin with, then they have no chance to make it stick.
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So you ignored everything I said?

States don't recognise this but the people they court do. It is like the IRA. They attacked us, we reacted harshly, the IRA got support. If it wasn't for our harsh reaction Ireland could possibly still be part of the UK.
We need to court the same people.
 
haitch40
So you ignored everything I said?

States don't recognise this but the people they court do. It is like the IRA. They attacked us, we reacted harshly, the IRA got support. If it wasn't for our harsh reaction Ireland could possibly still be part of the UK.
We need to court the same people.
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Oh, I get the sympathy card. But the issue at hand is when I have a leader who is calling them the JV team [implied that Al Quedia(sp) was better opponent all along], how is it hard to understand when our MSM doesn't cover the real issue at all?
 
I was just watching a CNN discussion of the motivation for this incident of the murdered Copts. Peter Bergen and Robert Baer, perennial CNN talking heads, both agreed daesh ardently desires US and coalition boots on the ground - in fulfillment of apocalyptic prophecy which proclaims them [wrongly] the victors and the good guys. So they see a deliberate and designed provocation to draw in western armies on the ground.
 
Dotini
I was just watching a CNN discussion of the motivation for this incident of the murdered Copts. Peter Bergen and Robert Baer, perennial CNN talking heads, both agreed daesh ardently desires US and coalition boots on the ground - in fulfillment of apocalyptic prophecy which proclaims them [wrongly] the victors and the good guys. So they see a deliberate and designed provocation to draw in western armies on the ground.
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Exactly. The ISIL believe in holy war to the death of either side involved. Let's not give them an holy war. Let's not send any boots on the ground in offensive actions, let's not start another war of imperialist aggression and send our soldiers to die - it will only bring them closer to their own twisted idea of success, which need I remember, doesn't need them to survive as long as they can drag us to hell with them and put the Islamic and the Western world in a state of perpetual war.
Bomb their training camps and weapon caches with drones and cruise missiles, arm and train anyone who's fighting against them, and at the same time support the creation of social welfare nets that surpass theirs, while allowing refugees safe passage to Europe. In other words, combine extremely focused aggression with support to the population they're trying to co-opt in their mindless crusade. And while we're at that, let's make it very clear that ours is not a fight against Islam per se - it's a fight against the ISIL's demented religious fascism.

Let's see how well the jihadists fare with no weapons and supplies, no support from the population and a lot of pissed peshmerga coming at them with modern rifles and artillery, and with no Western soldier kill to claim.

It will be expensive, sure, and there are risks in a strategy that to a certain degree opens, rather than closing, the borders. It's not that I don't know that - it's just that I don't care. Some expenses can't be spared and some risks can't be avoided if we want to treat everybody with the dignity a human being deserves.
 
LMSCorvetteGT2
I don't get it Sanji, are you saying we should fight ISIS(beyond what's already being done), and if so on what grounds?
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Yes, and the grounds is already made clear. It's genocide. ISIS is killing in the name of religion to wipe out all religions but Islam, but even then they are wiping out sects that don't align with their values.
 
ClydeYellow
a lot of pissed peshmerga coming at them with modern rifles and artillery
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So that the next war will be the Kurds fighting for an independent state. Turkey will love that idea. There are already reports that the PKK are getting their hands on weapons sent to fight IS.

Every decision made will have dire consequences for the future. That's the problem with the region. Nobody likes each other.
 
Dennisch
So that the next war will be the Kurds fighting for an independent state. Turkey will love that idea. There are already reports that the PKK are getting their hands on weapons sent to fight IS.
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I'm quite sure the Kurds would be happy enough if they could get even just Iraqi and Syrian Kurdistan. And it's Iran, more than Turkey, that I fear could oppose an indipendent Kurdish State. As I said, the strategy I outlined presents its risks. But risks can always be managed, and with some political mediation, an indipendent Kurdistan can exist in between Turkey and Iran.

As for the "nobody likes each other" part: one could've said the same of Europe during our long Civil War in between 1914 and 1945. I guess it worked out brilliantly for us after WWII. Could this be the Middle Eastern equivalent? A war so shocking it brings once opposed groups together? I surely hope so.
 
Sanji Himura
Yes, and the grounds is already made clear. It's genocide. ISIS is killing in the name of religion to wipe out all religions but Islam, but even then they are wiping out sects that don't align with their values.
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One you still didn't answer the question, grounds that you believe in but as far as foreign policy goes what grounds are their to send troops? Is it a nation that belongs to us? Last I recall we have trained troops in most of the main regions if not all that ISIS is known to operate, the only difference to you seems to be that an American soldier can get the job done better than an Iraqi or Libyian trained by the same American tax money and personnel.

Seems more like a personal crux than anything, are what they do wrong? Yeah. But no more wrong than any other massive criminal organization. You don't see us sending troops (not in the present era) to Mexico to stomp out the massive drug cartels that do equally horrid things. You don't see us run into Japan and stomp us the massive Yakuza that do equally horrid things abroad and so on and so on. So what makes this group special? The specter of Terrorism?

Personally I'm not religious so, to be honest I don't see why ISIS gets more hang time than other powerful or more powerful and well backed groups. I'd say the constant drone attacks are doing quite enough, perhaps personal investment in not traveling overseas to war torn regions is a key thing. Considering it's well documented through the decades no matter where you go that in such regions you can be taken and never be seen again. Also genocide seems a bit strong.
 
LMSCorvetteGT2
One you still didn't answer the question, grounds that you believe in but as far as foreign policy goes what grounds are their to send troops? Is it a nation that belongs to us? Last I recall we have trained troops in most of the main regions if not all that ISIS is known to operate, the only difference to you seems to be that an American soldier can get the job done better than an Iraqi or Libyian trained by the same American tax money and personnel.

Seems more like a personal crux than anything, are what they do wrong? Yeah. But no more wrong than any other massive criminal organization. You don't see us sending troops (not in the present era) to Mexico to stomp out the massive drug cartels that do equally horrid things. You don't see us run into Japan and stomp us the massive Yakuza that do equally horrid things abroad and so on and so on. So what makes this group special? The specter of Terrorism?

Personally I'm not religious so, to be honest I don't see why ISIS gets more hang time than other powerful or more powerful and well backed groups. I'd say the constant drone attacks are doing quite enough, perhaps personal investment in not traveling overseas to war torn regions is a key thing. Considering it's well documented through the decades no matter where you go that in such regions you can be taken and never be seen again. Also genocide seems a bit strong.
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ISIS is not a criminal organization, it's a political/miltary one with the goal of establishing a Caliphate in the middle east. Were they able to do so, and gain control of vast amounts of oil resources, and were given time to build their military, what then? At what point do you accept what their ambition is and put an end to it. Do you think if Mexican cartels or the Yakuza could get their hands on a nuclear weapon, they'd detonate it over NY? Or do you think they do what they do to be left alone to conduct their illegal activities? ISIS is not a Mexican Cartel or Yakuza any more than Hitler was a little tinpot dictator in a third world country. Different threat levels, different strategies.

Personally I think their days are numbered and I don't want to send soldiers there either, but at some point it may become necessary if the rest of the world doesn't have the guts to commit to it or can't get the job done. Failure is simply not an option in this case.
 
Johnnypenso
ISIS is not a criminal organization, it's a political/miltary one with the goal of establishing a Caliphate in the middle east. Were they able to do so, and gain control of vast amounts of oil resources, and were given time to build their military, what then? At what point do you accept what their ambition is and put an end to it. Do you think if Mexican cartels or the Yakuza could get their hands on a nuclear weapon, they'd detonate it over NY? Or do you think they do what they do to be left alone to conduct their illegal activities? ISIS is not a Mexican Cartel or Yakuza any more than Hitler was a little tinpot dictator in a third world country. Different threat levels, different strategies.

Personally I think their days are numbered and I don't want to send soldiers there either, but at some point it may become necessary if the rest of the world doesn't have the guts to commit to it or can't get the job done. Failure is simply not an option in this case.
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It's a criminal organization, it commits crimes. And it has been tied to drugs (cocaine mainly) and arms sells to fund it's political and militant needs, just like is the case with other criminal organizations. Yes, I've heard the grand boogeymen stories before. Same one that told us if the Muslim Brotherhood were to come to power similar things would happen, yet not the case.

Who says their ambition hasn't been accepted? Or did you miss that mass of drone attacks that span from Pakistan to the horn of Africa? But to you folks the key is sending in troops into a fight against a border-less criminal organization/terrorism group because as history has shown it's such an effective tool.

See your argument is flawed for some reason ISIS has priority because they behead people but when they do it's because of some assurance (to you and others) that they're one step closer to a nuclear weapon. Though that can't be proven anymore than the constant threats that Al Qaeda is getting one after nearly 20 years of being around, these guys are the new flavor because the old one is outdated and no longer scary. Hitler was an actual political leader of a global powerhouse nation with many resources and other political allies, along with structured systems that allowed for some of the greatest and yet sinister advancements of the 20th century. No where has ISIS come close to do this, and taking over dislocated parts of nations where the government is weak (while smart) is not any bit deserving of comparison to a calculated Dictator and spear head of WWII. Neither are the Yamaguchi Gumi, Senal, or Zetas, cause like ISIS I'll they have to draw attention is senseless killings, massive drug exporting, and arms trading and other limited criminal activities that get blown up.

I don't say these groups aren't dangerous they very much are, but the measuring stick for one compared to others is wrong, and the tool to solve the problem at the end of the day is overkill that has a high potential of making the problem worse.
 
LMSCorvetteGT2
It's a criminal organization, it commits crimes. And it has been tied to drugs (cocaine mainly) and arms sells to fund it's political and militant needs, just like is the case with other criminal organizations. Yes, I've heard the grand boogeymen stories before. Same one that told us if the Muslim Brotherhood were to come to power similar things would happen, yet not the case.

Who says their ambition hasn't been accepted? Or did you miss that mass of drone attacks that span from Pakistan to the horn of Africa? But to you folks the key is sending in troops into a fight against a border-less criminal organization/terrorism group because as history has shown it's such an effective tool.

See your argument is flawed for some reason ISIS has priority because they behead people but when they do it's because of some assurance (to you and others) that they're one step closer to a nuclear weapon. Though that can't be proven anymore than the constant threats that Al Qaeda is getting one after nearly 20 years of being around, these guys are the new flavor because the old one is outdated and no longer scary. Hitler was an actual political leader of a global powerhouse nation with many resources and other political allies, along with structured systems that allowed for some of the greatest and yet sinister advancements of the 20th century. No where has ISIS come close to do this, and taking over dislocated parts of nations where the government is weak (while smart) is not any bit deserving of comparison to a calculated Dictator and spear head of WWII. Neither are the Yamaguchi Gumi, Senal, or Zetas, cause like ISIS I'll they have to draw attention is senseless killings, massive drug exporting, and arms trading and other limited criminal activities that get blown up.

I don't say these groups aren't dangerous they very much are, but the measuring stick for one compared to others is wrong, and the tool to solve the problem at the end of the day is overkill that has a high potential of making the problem worse.
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If the primary purpose of ISIS was criminal activity it would be a criminal organization like the Mafia or Yakuza. It's not, the crimes are simply a way of getting to the ultimate goal of an Islamic Caliphate, so their organization is political and military, not a crime syndicate. They aim to establish a hardline, archaic, medieval version of Islam in the Middle East and IMO that simply cannot be allowed to happen.
 

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