The WTC 600 in Tokyo done without exploits is genuinely one of the hardest races in single player in gt7 - share your setups, tips, and cars

[Tommy_D]

If you manage to do this on softs, you are doing 2 stops?

I used mediums, though even those barely survive 6 laps.
1.st "pass" fastest lap


After that I changed gear ratios to avoid dropping into 2nd.
Using 3rd for those low speed corner traction was better suited to me, also sticking to 4th for the sweeping corners.
5th matched to shift before the uphill on the long straight.
View attachment 1334113
View attachment 1334112
I agree, sub 25m would be possibly - if I could manage to lap my fastest more consistently + shaving off just a bit around the edges.

Looking at my original tune it looks like I used Mediums. Not sure why I have softs on now. I may have messed with the tune to run another race. Not sure. But according to my original post about this car I said:

I ran FM3 on the backside and FM1 on the straight. This helped with keeping the rear tires from spinning up and maintaining good corner exit velocity. Pit after lap 6 for new tires and some fuel.

So, I must have been having some tire wear issues I was trying to resolve by lowering the fuel map. It's just a stupid fast car that really has no business being this good. I don't know how a little Miata can handle that type of power but in this game it does. Maybe we need to do a sub-25 minute challenge.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

What is the logic behind not allowing switching between tire "grades" during a race? I thought I would be clever and setup a car to run fast and hard in the wet for 2 laps on inters and then pit for sport hards or sport mediums and run the rest of the race with a tire and fuel preservation strategy. But to my disappointment, despite it being a lower PP combo, the sport hards were not available when I pit after 2 laps. Lame! There was no way I could be competitive on the inters as they wear out after 2 laps, so I just exited the race.

 

[Tommy_D]

What is the logic behind not allowing switching between tire "grades" during a race? I thought I would be clever and setup a car to run fast and hard in the wet for 2 laps on inters and then pit for sport hards or sport mediums and run the rest of the race with a tire and fuel preservation strategy. But to my disappointment, despite it being a lower PP combo, the sport hards were not available when I pit after 2 laps. Lame! There was no way I could be competitive on the inters as they wear out after 2 laps, so I just exited the race.

I'm pretty sure you can do that. One thing you can't do is swap tires if you have them mixed (hard in front with medium in the rear). If you set your car up that way from the start you are stuck with them. So long as the tire combination you are installing still puts your car within the regulations of the race (pp level in this case) you can change to whatever tire you want. If you are having problems swapping tires, you may want to check your PP levels with the other tires and confirm you are under 600pp.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

I'm pretty sure you can do that. One thing you can't do is swap tires if you have them mixed (hard in front with medium in the rear). If you set your car up that way from the start you are stuck with them. So long as the tire combination you are installing still puts your car within the regulations of the race (pp level in this case) you can change to whatever tire you want. If you are having problems swapping tires, you may want to check your PP levels with the other tires and confirm you are under 600pp.

I'm pretty sure that if you start a race on racing or wet/inter tires, you cannot change to sports or comfort tires, they don't even show up on the menu greyed out.

 

[Meythia]

What is the logic behind not allowing switching between tire "grades"

When the race has a PP limit, you cant switch to tyres that exceed this PP limit.
Usually this will only happen when you take obviously better tyres
RS > RM > RH > SS > SM > SH > CS > CM > CH
But the exception to this is that IM or W will lock you into racing, as they seemingly are intended only for this purpose from PDs point of view.
Yet from the events playfield, you wouldnt want to use them anyway, the extra pit will slow you down more then IMs benefit over SS will be. And the IM wear down within a much shorter period of time.

When using mixed tyres front and rear, this can create strange PP interactions lowering the value more than using a single compound and by that totally removing the option to change tyres during a pitstop.
For example limit is 110 and simplified
SH/SH will be 100
SM/SM will be 110
SS/SS will be 120
with SH you can add power
with SM you can take the car as is
with SS you need to lower power

But you could also do
SH/SS which propably is 95
allowing you to add even more power than SH/SH while at the same time maybe even not driving worse or even better.
But as the game can not refresh this selection during a pitstop (shame!) and can only offer SH/SH you would be at 115 and exceed the limit of the race.
The game will tell you before you actually start any race that you cant change tyres.

 

[Mudda Chod]

I'm pretty sure that if you start a race on racing or wet/inter tires, you cannot change to sports or comfort tires, they don't even show up on the menu greyed out.

No. You can definitely change tires from wet/inters to racing tires. I've done it many times, so unless there's been some change in an update, it should work.

Try this:
1. Check that you bought the desired tires
2. Check the PP rating of the car with the desired tires, to ensure it's under 600.
3. Change back to wet/inters

Race

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

No. You can definitely change tires from wet/inters to racing tires. I've done it many times, so unless there's been some change in an update, it should work.

Try this:
1. Check that you bought the desired tires
2. Check the PP rating of the car with the desired tires, to ensure it's under 600.
3. Change back to wet/inters

Race

To racing tires, yes, but not to sport or comfort.

When the race has a PP limit, you cant switch to tyres that exceed this PP limit.
Usually this will only happen when you take obviously better tyres
RS > RM > RH > SS > SM > SH > CS > CM > CH
But the exception to this is that IM or W will lock you into racing, as they seemingly are intended only for this purpose from PDs point of view.
Yet from the events playfield, you wouldnt want to use them anyway, the extra pit will slow you down more then IMs benefit over SS will be. And the IM wear down within a much shorter period of time.

When using mixed tyres front and rear, this can create strange PP interactions lowering the value more than using a single compound and by that totally removing the option to change tyres during a pitstop.
For example limit is 110 and simplified
SH/SH will be 100
SM/SM will be 110
SS/SS will be 120
with SH you can add power
with SM you can take the car as is
with SS you need to lower power

But you could also do
SH/SS which propably is 95
allowing you to add even more power than SH/SH while at the same time maybe even not driving worse or even better.
But as the game can not refresh this selection during a pitstop (shame!) and can only offer SH/SH you would be at 115 and exceed the limit of the race.
The game will tell you before you actually start any race that you cant change tyres.

I didn't play GT Sport, but I've heard you could mix and match tires during pit stops in that game. I wonder why they've eliminated that option. If you can select a combo before the race starts, why can't you during the race? Seems like an oversight.

 

[Mudda Chod]

To racing tires, yes, but not to sport or comfort.

Let me know the car/tire combination, and I'll test it

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Let me know the car/tire combination, and I'll test it

My test was with a Ferrari 308. It wasn't going to be competitive at like PP550, but I wanted to see how it did on the inters. So I bought inters and sport mediums. The PP was higher with the inters, but it wouldn't let me switch to the SM tires when I pit. I could only put on another set of Inters.

 

[Mudda Chod]

My test was with a Ferrari 308. It wasn't going to be competitive at like PP550, but I wanted to see how it did on the inters. So I bought inters and sport mediums. The PP was higher with the inters, but it wouldn't let me switch to the SM tires when I pit. I could only put on another set of Inters.

Well I am stunned by this game "feature".

You are absolutely correct. It looks like PD decided for us i.e. that we should use the Sports Mediums in lieu of Inters, because SM have higher PP, less wear and essentially similar wet grip as Inters. Nevertheless I don't see any logical reason why they would prohibit this.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Well I am stunned by this game "feature".

You are absolutely correct. It looks like PD decided for us i.e. that we should use the Sports Mediums in lieu of Inters, because SM have higher PP, less wear and essentially similar wet grip as Inters. Nevertheless I don't see any logical reason why they would prohibit this.

So basically, the fact that inters are no better than sport mediums in the wet nor dry but wear out faster has basically broken their ability to be used in the same races. In reality, I would guess that Inters would be between sport soft and racing hard as far as grip levels in the dry, and comfortably better than both in the wet. At least that was the logic I used when I fitted them to my 308 to test at Tokyo!

 

[Mudda Chod]

So basically, the fact that inters are no better than sport mediums in the wet nor dry but wear out faster has basically broken their ability to be used in the same races. In reality, I would guess that Inters would be between sport soft and racing hard as far as grip levels in the dry, and comfortably better than both in the wet. At least that was the logic I used when I fitted them to my 308 to test at Tokyo!

Just tested it again. The distinction is between "Race Tires", or "Road Tires". You can only use one category of tyres in any event. Inters are Race Tires, so the SM road tires cannot be used in the same event... I suppose that makes sense since all racing events have some form of tire restrictions

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Just tested it again. The distinction is between "Race Tires", or "Road Tires". You can only use one category of tyres in any event. Inters are Race Tires, so the SM road tires cannot be used in the same event... I suppose that makes sense since all racing events have some form of tire restrictions

In some cases, but this event is not tire-restricted in any way. You could start the event with any tires you want, but you can't switch to a different category from there, once in the race. I think the sport tires are just too close to the inters but last way longer, which would render the inter tire useless if SM or SS could be used instead.

 

[Tommy_D]

Well, I ran the Miata again. 25:18 race time. I think the slight wet weather physics changes they made in the update a couple months ago has made a small impact on overall drivability of this car. It’s a slippery little devil but I think with some more testing and tuning it could possibly hit a sub-25 minute race time.

I stretched my first stint to 7 laps to try to keep as fresh of tires as I could for the last 5 dry laps. I don’t know if that is a better strategy than pitting after 6 or not. I have no camber in the rear to try to get as much rubber contacting the road on acceleration and hopefully get the tires to last a hair longer. It still corners pretty well despite this. I still recommend switching the FM3 on the brakes in to turn 1 so the back end is much more tame coming out of the corners. In my test runs I was able to get a lot more acceleration out of turn 2 and pass my ghost in to turn 3 while on FM3. The ghost was on FM1 the whole time and needed to early upshift to keep the tires from spinning. I could run out 2nd gear without spinning the tires on FM3.

 

[Meythia]

25:18 race time

It is funny how we are so close on our times.
This was the final time of my first run.

Though my driving is quite different.
Instead of going FM3, I was doing FM1 on the straight, and during the braking zone changed to FM6 for the remainder of each lap.
Still my tyres were almost gone.

 

[Tommy_D]

I’m working on some suspension changes to make the car a bit more predictable around the fast bends. I was having good laps then all of a sudden the car would start acting up and get a snap oversteer on the exit of a turn. I’m thinking a touch more ride height and some compression/rebound damping adjustments may tune some of that out. Maybe softening the suspension will get it to soak up some of these little imperfections and smooth things out.

I’m still using 2nd gear through turns 1, 2, 10, 11 and out of the hair pin until I early shift at the kink to the straight. Something about these big V8 engines makes them really bipolar in the low rev range. They are sometimes tame and you get grip and acceleration. But then they randomly spin up the tires at a moments notice. I find being in the higher rev range to be more predictable. They tend to lose some torque and either spin the tire or don’t. One or the other depending on what you have your gearing set to. Like you, Im trying to get more consistency in my repeatability of low lap times and I think if I can tune the car to soak up a bit more of these little bumps and depressions on the track it will help.

Edit: I've run test laps at 2:00.3 with the same fuel/tire wear settings as the race. My fastest test lap back in August of last year was 1:59.8. I don’t think I set up the test with any of the event settings, though. So fresh tires every lap. I want to get sub 2 minute test laps to prove this car is actually getting faster and may have a chance at sub-25 minutes.

 

[Mudda Chod]

In some cases, but this event is not tire-restricted in any way. You could start the event with any tires you want, but you can't switch to a different category from there, once in the race. I think the sport tires are just too close to the inters but last way longer, which would render the inter tire useless if SM or SS could be used instead.

What I think is; in this event (that has no tire restrictions), you effectively set the tire restriction/category by choosing whatever tire you start on, because the pit lane tire change is hard coded to one category or the other (road/race) but not both. It would be interesting to test this on a different event, and also to see if we can start with a mixed category set and see what's available in the pit e.g. Sports Soft on front and Racing Hard on the rear)...

Edit: Confirmed... If you start the race with any Racing tires on your car, then only racing tires are available in the pit stop. The DP-100 600PP tune uses Sports Hard (front and back) so I changed the front tires to Racing:Intermediate and then reduced the engine power from 100% to 87% to get under 600PP (see pic)

When entering the race, the tire warning popped up which showed only RACING tires could be used (of which only Racing:Full Wet would be available due to the PP restriction).

I also tested it on another 600PP event, with the same result. So for all events without any specified tire restrictions, you effectively chose the category restriction based on what tire you have on your car when you enter i.e only one category can be used in the pit stop, Sport OR Racing, but not both. (not sure what happens for Dirt & Snow tires)

As mentioned earlier, I'm still surprised (shocked) about this; and also that I hadn't noticed it previously (over 4 years playing GT Sport + GT7).

Anyway, back to the grind. I'm going to have to win it in the Ferrari now, since you made me try it!

 

[Meythia]

Edit: I've run test laps at 2:00.3 with the same fuel/tire wear settings as the race. My fastest test lap back in August of last year was 1:59.8. I don’t think I set up the test with any of the event settings, though. So fresh tires every lap. I want to get sub 2 minute test laps to prove this car is actually getting faster and may have a chance at sub-25 minutes.

Can you tell what is wrong here?

Next try, adjusted gears again, and slight changes to suspension and wing setup.

I still stick to FM6 and 3rd gear tactics, it works for me.
But I think this is my personal limit.
I doubt I can break another 4 seconds down, this car just requires too much concentration.
I surrender at this point 😅

 

[Tommy_D]

Can you tell what is wrong here?
View attachment 1334313

Next try, adjusted gears again, and slight changes to suspension and wing setup.
View attachment 1334314
I still stick to FM6 and 3rd gear tactics, it works for me.
But I think this is my personal limit.
I doubt I can break another 4 seconds down, this car just requires too much concentration.
I surrender at this point 😅

25:03 is awesome. I'm going to keep tweaking to see if I can take out all the concentration necessary in this car. I may be able to get close to that, but I don't think I've ever been faster than you with any car on this track. Maybe we need BWM to give this a shot. He's probably the fastest player in this thread. Although JaK is pretty damn fast too and he's pretty used to doing crazy challenges like this.

 

[rheinaoi]

Under 25 Minute Swapped Miata Challenge:
Accepted



@Tommy_D is right about the V8 Swapped Miata's shocking ability to handle over 700hp. It shames a lot of the FR cars in the game who still struggle with less.

Driving and tuning a Superbird that seems to develop negative rear downforce at speed and the swapped MKI Golf and Mini that both have no-traction-until-140mph have prepared me for this... I can drive around on FM1 fine, but the tire wear defeated me in my previous runs.

The run was sloppy, and I got lucky with the positioning of lapped traffic.

IMO, we can get the Miata deep into the 24s. High 24:40s may be my absolute limit at the moment.

TOTAL TIME
25:54.243

BEST LAP
1:59.472

STRATEGY

• FM1 on big straight - Switch to FM6 before turn 1 and stay there until end of last hairpin
• Pit in at end of lap 7 for tires and fuel

I went with @Meythia 's strategy: FM1 on the big straight, then FM6 for the corners. I tried FM4 for a couple of laps, and that may even have been my fastest lap, but I have my doubts about the speed vs tire wear tradeoff. The Miata is hilariously quick accelerating even in FM6. Note, I had to drive on completely shot rear tires for most of my 7th lap because I got greedy.

Optiomal strategy for balancing fastest lap greed and tire life may be FM1 > main straight > FM6 up to big straight before final hairpin > FM4 or higher along that straight to braking zone > FM6 through hairpin > FM1 once you're above ~100mph. Not sure if it's worth the effort though.

SETUP
Ironically, I opted for Racing Brakes and lower downforce (51 / 240). This dropped the PP enough to allow me to fit the Racing Brakes.

I wasn't convinced that the higher downforce at the rear helped enough with the tire wear vs how it made the car feel in corners. The racing brakes however, shortened stopping distances noticeably.

I'm working on the suspension. The car still felt a bit bouncy for my liking. I hate that I just end up stiffening everything. Definitely missing the Praiano magic.

My Miata wanted to grind through its rev limiter at about 230mph. I need to optimize a little bit (A LOT) more on that one. Or just copy @Tommy_D 's.

- edited: I forgot to add the results screen shot

 

[Tommy_D]

Fantastic run! I'm going to have to try your tune because I don't think I've been able to get much faster than 223-225mph on the straight. I tried running lower rear downforce to see if that would make me faster on the straight and it didn't make much of an appreciable difference. I just struggled on the fast bends to keep the rear connected to the road, so I turned it back up.

I'll have to try our tune though. Maybe you have found a secret way to keep the rear planted that I haven't found yet.

Edit: Why didnt the race show you won at the end? Its like it was going to let you keep going but you manually exited out. Kinda sus...

 

[rheinaoi]

Because it's a recording of the replay. The following screen wouldn't show the time / payout - it would just give options to see the replay again. Check the time in the bottom left corner.

I'm still coming to grips with the PS4 record feature. And I restart runs... A LOT.

As for the tune, lower front downforce helped me with the car's skittishness. Before I fit the racing brakes, I started seeing stability problems over 120 front downforce (240 rear).

Also, I got greedy with the diff. I set it around 35 Accel to get more traction and regretted it. I dialed it back to make the car less snappy.

 

[Tommy_D]

Because it's a recording of the replay. The following screen wouldn't show the time / payout - it would just give options to see the replay again. Check the time in the bottom left corner.

I'm still coming to grips with the PS4 record feature. And I restart runs... A LOT.

As for the tune, lower front downforce helped me with the car's skittishness. Before I fit the racing brakes, I started seeing stability problems over 120 front downforce (240 rear).

Also, I got greedy with the diff. I set it around 35 Accel to get more traction and regretted it. I dialed it back to make the car less snappy.

I'm just messing with ya.

Yeah, I noticed that high downforce in the front and mid-range downforce in the rear made the back end super unsettled. You need to find the right balance of the two so the car slides equally both front and rear. Racing brakes are a must for this car. I really don't know why, since it only weighs 2300 lbs, but it makes a massive difference in the car's ability to slow down.

 

[rheinaoi]

2119 pounds

As you said earlier, there's so much acceleration that you don't realize how fast you're actually going... That engine chucks a whole lot of energy into accelerating that little Miata. Those poor brakes need to work triple time or be that much more powerful to cancel out that energy.

Weirdly, even with the stock brakes, I don't think the swapped Miata is the worst braking car I've ever driven here.

From memory, the 959 swapped 356 is the stuff of nightmares to get slowed down. It may be just as fast, if not faster, in a straight line too, AND with worse tire wear!

For stability, I also played with a lower rear ride height. IMO, I don't feel the extra downforce grip from high rake cars anymore, but it may still be there. If all else fails, accept that the car can't max turn and accelerate at the same time and reduce throttle to 90~95% gradually adding throttle until you've unwound the steering. That mad the Superbird somewhat driveable for me.

 

[Tommy_D]

Been doing a bunch of engine swaps lately since I’m flush with cash and already own every car in the game.

Tried the LS7 C4 ZR-1 engine swap the other night:

It’s a decent car. Good mechanical grip, not so bad with the aerodynamic grip, but kind of heavy, so you aren’t flying through the fast bends like you do in the Miata or the Boss 429. Its front end is really good at hitting the apex of corners, but it’s really long, so it’s easy to tap in to the AI even when you think you are giving them plenty of room.

It’s sad to throw that Lotus designed quad-cam engine in to the dumpster, but the LS7 is a pretty good motor. Since it’s no longer a ZR-1 I designed a Grand Sport livery for the car. I think it looks pretty good. Wish they had better wing designs for this car, though.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Been doing a bunch of engine swaps lately since I’m flush with cash and already own every car in the game.

Tried the LS7 C4 ZR-1 engine swap the other night:
View attachment 1335211

It’s a decent car. Good mechanical grip, not so bad with the aerodynamic grip, but kind of heavy, so you aren’t flying through the fast bends like you do in the Miata or the Boss 429. Its front end is really good at hitting the apex of corners, but it’s really long, so it’s easy to tap in to the AI even when you think you are giving them plenty of room.

It’s sad to throw that Lotus designed quad-cam engine in to the dumpster, but the LS7 is a pretty good motor. Since it’s no longer a ZR-1 I designed a Grand Sport livery for the car. I think it looks pretty good. Wish they had better wing designs for this car, though.

View attachment 1335212

FYI I won fairly easily with the standard ZR-1 engine with a supercharger. I find that front heavy cars excel in this race because they have much better turn in, in the wet, without PP-robbing aero. That made me think - what is a very front heavy car with a ton of power and traction?

My first thought was the Nissan GT-R LM. The front wheel drive one. Bad idea. Its terrible. The car has so much downforce that at PP600 you're barely doing 160mph on the main straight. Also the hybrid power is basically useless beyond the first corner.

But then I thought, what about the Audi Quattro Sport Group B? Famously heavy front end. This car is absolutely phenomenal at this race. I installed the high RPM turbo and comfort soft tires. Reduced aero to minimum, final drive to 3.03, used the restrictor to reduce power to 631hp. Thats it. The car is seriously fast and has so much balance and a surprising amount of grip on the front end for comfort softs. Surprisingly, the fuel economy is also decent. As with other race cars, the brakes are fantastic. Without touching the suspension tuning it does have a lot of body roll, but once you learn to drive it, its extremely predictable. I was able to do a no-stopper, running consistently in the 2:12s and passed all the opponents before they pit, and put a ton of time into them after they pit. Ended up running 26:47.xx which is a personal best for me by probably 30 seconds. In more skilled hands, I'm pretty sure this car has a 25.xx.xx in it. There are definitely faster cars for this race, but I've yet to win in anything that's as easy as the Quattro. I set it on FM1 for the main straight and FM6 for the rest of the track. But it's probably possible to just leave it in FM3 or FM4 the whole race. The CS tires were pretty worn by the end, but I still set my fastest lap on lap 12 after I ran the whole lap in FM1.

 

[RCKakashi14]

I have always fallen in love with the fIrst generation Viper GTS ever since I encountered it in Gran Turismo 3.

And it still does not disappoint.

 

[Tommy_D]

FYI I won fairly easily with the standard ZR-1 engine with a supercharger. I find that front heavy cars excel in this race because they have much better turn in, in the wet, without PP-robbing aero. That made me think - what is a very front heavy car with a ton of power and traction?

My first thought was the Nissan GT-R LM. The front wheel drive one. Bad idea. Its terrible. The car has so much downforce that at PP600 you're barely doing 160mph on the main straight. Also the hybrid power is basically useless beyond the first corner.

But then I thought, what about the Audi Quattro Sport Group B? Famously heavy front end. This car is absolutely phenomenal at this race. I installed the high RPM turbo and comfort soft tires. Reduced aero to minimum, final drive to 3.03, used the restrictor to reduce power to 631hp. Thats it. The car is seriously fast and has so much balance and a surprising amount of grip on the front end for comfort softs. Surprisingly, the fuel economy is also decent. As with other race cars, the brakes are fantastic. Without touching the suspension tuning it does have a lot of body roll, but once you learn to drive it, its extremely predictable. I was able to do a no-stopper, running consistently in the 2:12s and passed all the opponents before they pit, and put a ton of time into them after they pit. Ended up running 26:47.xx which is a personal best for me by probably 30 seconds. In more skilled hands, I'm pretty sure this car has a 25.xx.xx in it. There are definitely faster cars for this race, but I've yet to win in anything that's as easy as the Quattro. I set it on FM1 for the main straight and FM6 for the rest of the track. But it's probably possible to just leave it in FM3 or FM4 the whole race. The CS tires were pretty worn by the end, but I still set my fastest lap on lap 12 after I ran the whole lap in FM1.

There is a tune somewhere in this thread with a 600pp tune for the Gr.B Audi. I believe it can run 25’s. I’ve never gotten along with that car, though, so I don’t really use it.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

There is a tune somewhere in this thread with a 600pp tune for the Gr.B Audi. I believe it can run 25’s. I’ve never gotten along with that car, though, so I don’t really use it.

I enjoyed it. You kind of have to drive it like a ship or almost like you are driving on dirt. Turn in waaaay before you would normally (especially compared to a dry track) and the car will lean and settle and nail the apex if you did it right. You can't hurry it or ask it to change directions quickly, but once you get used to the swaying, it can be properly fast and really secure feeling. For some reason I find it really satisfying. The other thing the Quattro excels at is getting the hell out of the final corner - just nail the throttle and it will light up all 4 tires but still launch the car down the main straight. Too much drag for really impressive top speed (I was hitting 185mph or so) but the acceleration up to 150mph is really strong. I would say this is a really beginner-friendly setup.

 

[RCKakashi14]

I revisited and retuned my Flyin' Miata. With all the physics changes, I am more confident in using this than ever before.