Time Trial #74: 600pp GT500 @ Grand Valley Speedway

[photonrider]

Fascinating discussion . . . . 👍

Even more amazing is the level of civility between you guys as you discuss this; thank you for that, as many would be following the discussion, dependent on the outcome, but unsure as to a resolution, and how you reason with one another as you play out your roles here, is vital.

As Lorne says:

Both sides have fair points. The problem is, it's possible to extract setup data from replays...................XsnipX

If the data is legally extractable, vetted by PD, then it's part of the game - as much a part as someone saving someone else's replay.
If the data is being hacked into, that's another matter - let alone publishing it.

If someone comes up with an identical tune to the leader (possible, right?) and publishes it, is it wrong?

And then there is the question of the archer and the arrow. Better arrows = better archers?

And from there - will the perfect arrow always have the same point?

And so . . . who owns the design of that point?



Why am I whispering?

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

That's good to hear Rido, I knew you were mature enough to handle the discussion in a good manner. 👍 I knew you weren't trying to cause trouble but was only trying to help people here, I just think maybe you should have asked the owners of the tunes permission to post their tunes, that's all. Its a common courtesy type of thing when it comes to situations like this. I also had a few pm's asking me to post other peoples tunes and how to extract the data. I just politely responded back that it is against the AUP to discuss how to extract the replay data and if they wanted a certain person's tune, then they should contact that person and not me. In each case, the person completely understood and there were no hard feelings.

I deleted the content of the post ( tunes ), I am terribly sorry for the post, to anyone who are offended or having objection. This won't happen again in the future.

 

[GTP_CargoRatt]

I think you did the right thing here Rido. It takes a mature person to admit their mistakes, and an even more mature one to correct them. I have more respect for you Rido than ever before. 👍 Good for you for doing the right thing, in my opinion.

 

[Dalone]

Something which I find interesting here regarding the sharing of tunes is, who does and who doesn't....... and why.

Now, many do, and why would that be? Only reason I can think of is to help their fellow man do better, even when it sometimes means others will overtake them on the leader board. The sharers though appear totally unconcerned about that and are often seen congratulating the overtakers, seemingly happy to have been able to help.

Then we have some top drivers who do not share (with the great unwashed) although again, some do encourage others who get a better time for themselves, but usually not with tune tips.
One of them, we all know who that is, even goes so far as to direct us to the latest winning video he has posted, actually asking for our accolades. But that is at the far end of the spectrum.

The top drivers have access to each others tunes and no doubt put that info to good use, all the while the great unwashed just get on with it and do the best they can with what they have available.

Like most here I think Doodles is a good bloke and I am always happy to see him take the lead, but not sharing tunes here amongst his 'GPT friends' because, because......um, I'm sure there is a good reason....... somewhat devalues his contributions here, in my opinion.

But it can't be because he thinks we will be able to use them and beat him as the other top drivers can see it/use it, (although apparently as of now, not post it) which begs the question, why the secret tunes in the first place?

And we all know that the top drivers have many good tunes for many cars/tracks stored away so it's ludicrous to suggest that they start fresh for each race and must put in hours and hours of play time to get a tune they are comfortable with.
I reckon that there would only be some tinkering around the edges by the top boys (who will share amongst themselves anyway) compared to many here who would actually start from scratch were it not for the sharers amongst us.

Some of us will still be able to access the tunes though and some will use that information for their own benefit, not that everyone would admit to that.

 

[RavingBonkers]

As Ridox (and many others) have said, tunes are only as good as the driver who uses it.
From my perspective, I'm knocking on the door of 1.50, way behind you boys, but I'm happy with that. I tried every one of the deleted tunes that were available on two cars using ABC settings, so I could compare them, but I couldn't improve my times, I'm not saying other people couldn't, but they didn't work for me, so for those of you who are way off the pace, don't think it was a magic way of producing top 10 times.

For what it's worth, I'm still using Stotty's tune, which seems to suit my driving style.

 

[photonrider]

I'm a pretty average driver myself - but managed a low 1:49 with one of Ridox's cars, and jumped thousands of positions. The car was tuned, but after a few laps I tweaked it myself - I like over-steer more than under-, and I brake hard, having more of a 'Troy Bayliss' approach to cornering. I also ride my gears a lot. All these meant I had to do a wee bit of re-tuning to fit my style.
Tunes aren't engraved in stone as a magic potion. They are good starter points. However, propriety is another issue. Can people actually 'own' tunes? Once someone figures out the fastest combination, is that then barred from use by all others?
And let's not start with RL allusions; this is a game, albeit a game based on reality.

Crossing the floor of this courtroom, I would say, though: is hacking permitted? And was it used? Would this be like copying in the classroom? We must remember that there is only one correct answer to a question sometimes - whether copied or figured out on one's own - but how we get at that answer (in this case the perfect tune) is what may the problem here.

 

[suba1960]

Finally its not a game......the only i can say is ''CONGRATULATIONS" to Ridox and I appreciate the attempts to help the forum... i think that he did the best

my setup...(its not a top secret)....(Stotty's setup with some changes)..i did 1.46.379
buttons,tc 7,abs 10
Takata 03
543 hp 1200 kgr ballast 30/50(44/56)
-10/-15
18,5/19,5
8/5
8/4
7/1
1,6/1,2
-005/015
bb 6/7
aero 35/57
lsd 5/11/5
gears
1.4589
2.3365
3.2731
4.2291
5.1968
6.1707
final 2600
max 200

I tried 2 of the 5 top setup (before Ridox delete) and i was 1 sec slower.....hahaha...so ...driver does the setup not setup the driver...lol

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

I'm a pretty average driver myself - but managed a low 1:49 with one of Ridox's cars, and jumped thousands of positions. The car was tuned, but after a few laps I tweaked it myself - I like over-steer more than under-, and I brake hard, having more of a 'Troy Bayliss' approach to cornering. I also ride my gears a lot. All these meant I had to do a wee bit of re-tuning to fit my style.
Tunes aren't engraved in stone as a magic potion. They are good starter points. However, propriety is another issue. Can people actually 'own' tunes? Once someone figures out the fastest combination, is that then barred from use by all others?
And let's not start with RL allusions; this is a game, albeit a game based on reality.

Crossing the floor of this courtroom, I would say, though: is hacking permitted? And was it used? Would this be like copying in the classroom? We must remember that there is only one correct answer to a question sometimes - whether copied or figured out on one's own - but how we get at that answer (in this case the perfect tune) is what may the problem here.

But, there's no ultimate "perfect" tune it may be "perfect" to someone, but it won't be guarantee "perfect" for others. The same method used to read/extract car data is very useful to spot cheaters where there are rules in a event ( race or TT - WRS for example ). I never use other's tune for myself as I have rather unique driving style + stick controller, and almost all others used ABS 1, so yeah no other tune works for me I was just trying to help. I will try to help the best I can well into GT6.

I think you did the right thing here Rido. It takes a mature person to admit their mistakes, and an even more mature one to correct them. I have more respect for you Rido than ever before. 👍 Good for you for doing the right thing, in my opinion.

I had discussion with one of the mod and he gave input/feedback on this -thanks for that , it wasn't against AUP, but it was still deemed inappropriate, regardless if it was right or wrong and I think for the greater good, removal of the tune is the best way.


I feel bad now Please don't shoot me ...

 

[MusicracerAu]

I've gotten my time down to a 1:46.4?? and that's where I will leave it... I don't have the time or patience to spend hours trying to get every corner 100% or find every last 100th in a tune.. I used the standard PS3 controller and I am pretty sure it holds me back to some degree but thats what I have and thats all I can have for the foreseeable future.

BTW I tried the cherry Takata 03 (I didn't change it much as I was borrowing it) and was over a second slower than my own tune with the Mobil 1 car...

 

[Dalone]

But, there's no ultimate "perfect" tune it may be "perfect" to someone, but it won't be guarantee "perfect" for others. The same method used to read/extract car data is very useful to spot cheaters where there are rules in a event ( race or TT - WRS for example ). I never use other's tune for myself as I have rather unique driving style + stick controller, and almost all others used ABS 1, so yeah no other tune works for me I was just trying to help. I will try to help the best I can well into GT6.




I had discussion with one of the mod and he gave input/feedback on this -thanks for that , it wasn't against AUP, but it was still deemed inappropriate, regardless if it was right or wrong and I think for the greater good, removal of the tune is the best way.


I feel bad now Please don't shoot me ...

A great many people here appreciate what you have done and what you tried to do Ridox and clearly you went to some lengths for our benefit. I applaud you.

So then, the meeting with you at dawn, with the black hood, has been cancelled. Next up please!

 

[Bluecat84]

immortalpilot ask .. how many hours you are in front of the playstation? in life there are other things besides video games .. You have too much free time.

 

[Jaywalker]

immortalpilot ask .. how many hours you are in front of the playstation? in life there are other things besides video games .. You have too much free time.

Envious, much?

 

[Julian_Ross]

Really Ridox? Are you seriously giving away our tunes without permission? Please delete tunes 2-4. I'm disappointed of you. 👎

Also, they're not in random order. I can tell.

fear, you have fear... if not you don't say to ridox remove the setup....

fear and child, you and immortalpilot!

 

[zona99]

When I woke up this morning which is always a good thing for me I read through the latest comments it made better reading then the daily newspapers

 

[JK83]

No hybrids on top10?

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

No hybrids on top10?

Surprise I have some interesting findings ( other than the car setup ) verifying the top 10, if that means anything

 

[Jaywalker]

When I woke up this morning which is always a good thing for me ( !) I read through the latest comments it made better reading then the daily newspapers

See attachment below.

No hybrids on top10?

This was fixed with the last update. 👍

 

[Dalone]

Surprise I have some interesting findings ( other than the car setup ) verifying the top 10, if that means anything

Perhaps I read that wrong Ridox but are you saying you found some interesting things when verifying the top 10 which you haven't so far posted?

 

[Lorne]

Surprise I have some interesting findings ( other than the car setup ) verifying the top 10, if that means anything

I'm guessing these interesting findings are something to do with; learning how many hours/miles the top 10 have invested in the TT, or how many aborted laps they have? I hope it's nothing to do with some trick that very few know about that gives them an advantage. If the latter, is there any reason why it should remain a secret?

Btw, thanks a lot for your effort to share the setups. You have eased the minds of a lot of people by confirming that there's no magic setup that will easily help you shoot up the rankings. It really is 99% driving skill... hence, I'm sure the top guys who's setups were exposed have gained even more of our respect-----there's no question, they really are aliens.

 

[Lorne]

While you won't find it in the replay data, I have no doubt some of the top guys are taking performance enhancing drugs

Like Xanax or Lorazapam to reduce the stress and anxiety of seeing that you're several tenths of a second up on your ghost----or do they end up choking on 90% of those laps like I do!?

On a serious note, back in the 70's I read an interview with an F1 driver who actually admitted that he had a few drinks to calm his nerves prior to qualy/race sessions. He said it helped him drive better/safer. Dang I wish I could remember what driver it was. . .

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Perhaps I read that wrong Ridox but are you saying you found some interesting things when verifying the top 10 which you haven't so far posted?

I'm guessing these interesting findings are something to do with; learning how many hours/miles the top 10 have invested in the TT, or how many aborted laps they have? I hope it's nothing to do with some trick that very few know about that gives them an advantage. If the latter, is there any reason why it should remain a secret?

Btw, thanks a lot for your effort to share the setups. You have eased the minds of a lot of people by confirming that there's no magic setup that will easily help you shoot up the rankings. It really is 99% driving skill... hence, I'm sure the top guys who's setups were exposed have gained even more of our respect-----there's no question, they really are aliens.

It's just a bizarre phenomena of distance traveled in correlation with possible max power/torque ( engine stage 3 ), I'd rather keep it to myself for now, will need to make further tests with several Takatas with variety mileage, maybe I'll get 2nd opinion from someone who have the same experience. Most likely just how peculiar GT5 calculate engine wear after many miles driven.

 

[Dalone]

While you won't find it in the replay data, I have no doubt some of the top guys are taking performance enhancing drugs

Like Xanax or Lorazapam to reduce the stress and anxiety of seeing that you're several tenths of a second up on your ghost----or do they end up choking on 90% of those laps like I do!?

On a serious note, back in the 70's I read an interview with an F1 driver who actually admitted that he had a few drinks to calm his nerves prior to qualy/race sessions. He said it helped him drive better/safer. Dang I wish I could remember what driver it was. . .

I recall, back in the day, how the catch cry was, 'I always drive better after a few drinks.' Not sure it stands up to today's scrutiny though.
Having said that I can attest that at night I drink, albeit light beer although I have been known to have a sip of Dimple (scotch) on the odd occasion, anyway, sometimes, late at night, I sneak past my ghost for a lower time.
And others here have said their medication allows them to relax better, to drive calmer when it counts, which sometimes helps their best time.
All I know is that I'm going to have a few runs tonight, as the girlfriend will be here tomorrow and my attention will be elsewhere for a day or two.

 

[Lorne]

I recall, back in the day, how the catch cry was, 'I always drive better after a few drinks.' Not sure it stands up to today's scrutiny though.
Having said that I can attest that at night I drink, albeit light beer although I have been known to have a sip of Dimple (scotch) on the odd occasion, anyway, sometimes, late at night, I sneak past my ghost for a lower time.
And others here have said their medication allows them to relax better, to drive calmer when it counts, which sometimes helps their best time.

Yep, from the mid 90's to the early '00's I was seriously into all the PC F1 sims - tourneys, hotlap comps, etc. and I ALWAYS did better after a few drinks. It was part of my setup lol> I'd have 2 drinks in the first hour of playing followed by one drink per hour. However, I guess I'm getting old because I've lost most of my taste for booze and I'm too lazy to even bother setting up my wheel. I just really enjoy laying around on my bed/sofa with the DS3 and seeing how good I can do.

 

[Trusefusker]

Yep, from the mid 90's to the early '00's I was seriously into all the PC F1 sims - tourneys, hotlap comps, etc. and I ALWAYS did better after a few drinks. It was part of my setup lol> I'd have 2 drinks in the first hour of playing followed by one drink per hour. However, I guess I'm getting old because I've lost most of my taste for booze and I'm too lazy to even bother setting up my wheel. I just really enjoy laying around on my bed/sofa with the DS3 and seeing how good I can do.

Ehm, Deleted # Open forum

 

[suba1960]

 

[CBH]

Munching on a carrot just before doing the TT helps me a lot.

 

[photonrider]

It's just a bizarre phenomena of distance traveled in correlation with possible max power/torque ( engine stage 3 ), I'd rather keep it to myself for now, will need to make further tests with several Takatas with variety mileage, maybe I'll get 2nd opinion from someone who have the same experience. Most likely just how peculiar GT5 calculate engine wear after many miles driven.

Hmmm. TTgate?

Yes, a second, and maybe even a third opinion would magnetize that reality.

 

[when_in_doubt]

hi, I got back to GT5 this week-end, after over a year.. I'm no driver like you, I barely did 1:53:50 after over a hundred hot laps... I guess I just have to put more time to it. Also, I was just wondering why you guys all have the DOME 03, wihle I have an 06.. does it have to do with my Level? (29)

 

[Stotty]

Also, I was just wondering why you guys all have the DOME 03, wihle I have an 06.. does it have to do with my Level? (29)

The '06 is the Premium car - most people are using the '03, which is a standard car.

 

[GTP_CargoRatt]

Munching on a carrot just before doing the TT helps me a lot.

Taking a few hits from the good stuff (medical cannabis) usually does the trick for me. If that doesn't do the trick, then I have other options available to me. Its been said that the house could burn down around me and I would still be hotlapping, with not a care in the world.