Time Trial Discussion

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ikon_313
Managed a 6:58 on DS4. The tyres don't seem to be connected to the tarmac at all while setting up a car without telemetry is more or less trial and error, making tuning feel like a gimmick. Did improve high speed stability by a margin compared to my first setups, though. Yet it still drives like a forklift.
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yeah, lot of things to tweak, high speed cornering felt difficult, going to take it on again this weekend, maby sensitivity DS4 down a bit and play with the LSD and downforce, try to "de-forklift" it :lol:
 
ikon_313
Managed a 6:58 on DS4. The tyres don't seem to be connected to the tarmac at all while setting up a car without telemetry is more or less trial and error, making tuning feel like a gimmick. Did improve high speed stability by a margin compared to my first setups, though. Yet it still drives like a forklift.
Click to expand...
I've spent an hour on this today, making changes to setup from a sim racing tuning guide based on real car physics. The car does not appear to respond to tuning in the way it should according to that guide.

Just for further annoyance, the fact you have to back out to the menu to make a change and then re-enter is horribly time consuming.
 
What is wrong with this car? How do you even drive it? No matter what tune I try, or even stock, this is one of the worst cars to drive for me, I just don't understand - understeer, snap oversteer all the time, lift off oversteer, every single possible steer is present at all times, I can't make one fast corner without the weight transfer and spinning out, sliding, snaping, correcting it all the time and then crashing, it's horrible.

I've never driven a NSX in real life, but from what I know, it is supposed to be one of the best handling cars of all time, I remember the documentaries where it destroyed Ferraris and Porshes with much more power, so what is the issue?

I mean, I didn't start GT yesterday, you can say I have experience and I have driven most cars in the game, golded all the challenges and licences, won many daily races, but this is impossible for me.
 
Those of you in the gold time, care to share your tunes?

At this point, knocking enough time off my 7 flat to get gold seems fruitless... so I am wondering if it's more me or the tune. I'm 99% sure it's the former, but want to give some other tunes a try to see.

This is why doing a tuning TT is a bit frustrating. You can watch other people's replays to see how they're driving, but it likely won't translate since the car is set up differently.

ETA - Don't forget to change your oil. Since this is a non BoP event, your oil wears.
 
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Tried one lap last night, with close to stock HP(302), race suspension(no tuning), and widebody. Me and MR cars don't get along, and I usually avoid them, but really like Nurb, and have done 1000's of virtual miles there.

With that said, it went as expected, lift off oversteer sucks. I wrecked probably 6-7 times, and finished with a 8:25. A whole minute from Bronze.
A wreck free lap would surely get bronze, but the car is going to need some help.
 
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My tune. Not yet gold, but 6:57.2. So one sec away. More of a skill issue for me.

Note that you get more torque if you choose right parts and not use the ecu to lower power.
For transmission, played with it for a while, so no instructions for it.

Car is slidy, you need to use throttle/brakes to control it in high speed turns.
06A4B13B-1EC4-41DD-97DB-C1A213640E13.jpeg
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Fezzik
The stock car is so nice to drive, I don't really want to mess it up. Tuning would just ruin it. A wasted opportunity for a fun TT.
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Yea, and the extra b*tch of it is once you install a number of parts they can't be uninstalled. So, if you have a tune and want to try someone else's tune you can't because of those extra installed parts.

MCA's tune is good. But, I need to try some other ones to even consider being competitive for a gold here. I am now down in the 6s with a 6:59.X. But, there in lies the problem... I am finding some tenths here and there but not the seconds I need.

I'd have loved it if they did the exact same TT, but no tuning and RM tires on the NSX. That would've been better IMO.
 
Always, always seeing people complaining about street cars with street tires sliding when pushed to the absolute limit. It should not be news. This is a street car (even if quite tuned) with street tires, doing sub 7min lap on full Nordschleife. There is nothing wrong with the car.
 
Tried a few laps with the tunes from kie, mistah MCA, and praiano (haven't tested his most recent updated tune) and my main take away is I'm not sure the tuning aspect of this time trial will even matter that much. Those three tunes have some pretty extreme differences in different places, but in some ways they feel fairly similar, although you can tell there's a difference and they need to be driven a bit differently. Praianos in particular seems more stable. But I saw minimal difference in my times. Hard to make a fair comparison, especially since every single lap had some degree of lawn mowing and I didn't do that many, but I suspect the most important thing is getting used to the tune you choose and then driving it to the limit. At the end of the day they are all 345 bhp and 1050kg, and I think on a long track like this in theory a lot of tunes even out, since tunes that are better in corners make up time on some parts of the course, whereas other tunes may make up time on the straighter sections. If you look at the acceleration performance, stability and rotational g values for the tunes they just aren't that different. In theory then tuning should be more of a tool to level the playing field as the car can be tailored to a driving style rather than something which increases field spread.

I might be wrong though and maybe some tunes really are 10+ seconds faster no matter the driver. I think the bigger problem is most people just don't know how to tune (myself included) and/or don't want to spend lots of time testing and fiddling with values.

It's an interesting problem though, cause tuning is a big part of racing and adds a whole other level to daily races and the like, it just doesn't seem to work that well in practice since it's beyond what most people want to spend time on.
 
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I've tried MCA's tune, I've tried Kie's tune, both are way too slippery...after a few hours though, I managed to stabilize the rear end somewhat, at least to a comfortably manageable level. This thing does not like to ride low. The higher I put it, the more grip I got in the rear. Stiff dampers and a soft suspension will absorb the bumpy track well, stiff front compression and rear expansion will help keep the car in line under braking, but you'll still need to be careful. A slight rake angle improved downforce on the rear end and allowed the car to turn in better at low speed. Wide body, wide tire offset, roll cage...all other things standard iirc.

I have a rare engine part installed, a "high lift camshaft S", not sure how that affects the car, but I guess it's worth noting. These things mess with the max rpm of the car, which affects the gear ratios.

Yes, I did move the ballast all the way to the back. Yes, it does improve traction, but only if your rear end is not riding too low.

nsxtime.png
 

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specops
Always, always seeing people complaining about street cars with street tires sliding when pushed to the absolute limit. It should not be news. This is a street car (even if quite tuned) with street tires, doing sub 7min lap on full Nordschleife. There is nothing wrong with the car.
Click to expand...
Not really a street car, is it, it's not a Fiat Punto. This is the Honda NSX, a legendary sports car that became famous especially because of the amazing handling. And in game it handles like it has a broken rear suspension.

Regarding street tires, take for example a '07 M3, put SS on it and take it for a spin on any track, to see how nicely a stock car with street tires can drive.
 
Talon16
Those of you in the gold time, care to share your tunes?

At this point, knocking enough time off my 7 flat to get gold seems fruitless... so I am wondering if it's more me or the tune. I'm 99% sure it's the former, but want to give some other tunes a try to see.

This is why doing a tuning TT is a bit frustrating. You can watch other people's replays to see how they're driving, but it likely won't translate since the car is set up differently.

ETA - Don't forget to change your oil. Since this is a non BoP event, your oil wears.
Click to expand...
I think this combo is a lot about skills as well, like I literally copy pasted Kie's tune and still like 9 secs slower than him.

But yeah his tune felt more predictable and less understeery from the tune I used yesterday. This car is all about managing the oversteer it seems while still pushing plenty. You actually don't want the car too understeery either.

Down to a 7.00.2 now after only a few laps with the new tune, 2 secs faster than yesterday (actually like 1,5 since that lap had one slight mustake but anyways). Honestly a very solid lap without mistakes and should be enough for silver. Maybe some tweaks to my taste and sub 7 minutes is absolutely doable, maybe even sub 6.59 🤔
 

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NekoPufferPPP
I've tried MCA's tune, I've tried Kie's tune, both are way too slippery...after a few hours though, I managed to stabilize the rear end somewhat, at least to a comfortably manageable level. This thing does not like to ride low. The higher I put it, the more grip I got in the rear. Stiff dampers and a soft suspension will absorb the bumpy track well, stiff front compression and rear expansion will help keep the car in line under braking, but you'll still need to be careful. A slight rake angle improved downforce on the rear end and allowed the car to turn in better at low speed. Wide body, wide tire offset, roll cage...all other things standard iirc.

I have a rare engine part installed, a "high lift camshaft S", not sure how that affects the car, but I guess it's worth noting. These things mess with the max rpm of the car, which affects the gear ratios.

Yes, I did move the ballast all the way to the back. Yes, it does improve traction, but only if your rear end is not riding too low.

View attachment 1218013
Click to expand...


This tune definitely makes the car feel more planted and the rear is much less prone to dancing around compared to Mistah_MCA's and the tune on the previous page. Can definitely get on the power earlier and harder coming off corners with this tune. Good stuff.
 
Soo i did a bit research today and looked over some profiles in the top 20, and so far the profiles are open for trophys i have some interresting findings.
70% in the top 20 are on ps4 and ca. the half are on dualshock the rest on wheel.
The other 30% are on ps5 but non of them is on a dualsense so far i can see it after watching the replays in cockpitview.

I mention it in the dualsense thread after patch 1.16 and got flames for it but it seems it happens again since patch 1.24 and especialy since patch 1.27.
I installed gt7 on my old ps4 pro and used the exact same settings, and guess what. First sector 43.2 instead of 44.8 second sector 1:15,8 instead of 1:17,8 and i stoped then. That is proof enough for me.
It seems the ps4 calculate the physiks in a diffrent way then ps5 And results in a bit more grip or the dualshock is more mild in steering and didnt cause a snapy rearend.

And no i dont search for an excuse, i will understand what happens and why ps5 user on Dualsense have to struggle.
Im not a child of sadness when it becomes to setting up a car the right way and carrie it fast arround the track like my SF19 times shows

7D11C64D-1623-4970-9CBB-90499EC3E57E.jpeg


Something is going on here and i wanna know whats the plan behind it.
Is the ps4 not capeable to calculate it the same way or is it the dualsense, I really dont get it.
So far i can read it here in the forum some are also struggle since a wile.
Let me know whats youre thoughts about it.
I hope we can figure it out.
 
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RacinLei
Soo i did a bit research today and looked over some profiles in the top 20, and so far the profiles are open for trophys i have some interresting findings.
70% in the top 20 are on ps4 and ca. the half are on dualshock the rest on wheel.
The other 30% are on ps5 but non of them is on a dualsense so far i can see it after watching the replays in cockpitview.

I mention it in the dualsense thread after patch 1.16 and got flames for it but it seems it happens again since patch 1.24 and especialy since patch 1.27.
I installed gt7 on my old ps4 pro and used the exact same settings, and guess what. First sector 43.2 instead of 44.8 second sector 1:15,8 instead of 1:17,8 and i stoped then. That is proof enough for me.
It seems the ps4 calculate the physiks in a diffrent way then ps5 And results in a bit more grip or the dualshock is more mild in steering and didnt cause a snapy rearend.

And no i dont search for an excuse, i will understand what happens and why ps5 user on Dualsense have to struggle.
Im not a child of sadness when it becomes to setting up a car the right way and carrie it fast arround the track like my SF19 times shows

View attachment 1218095

Something is going on here and i wanna know whats the plan behind it.
Is the ps4 not capeable to calculate it the same way or is it the dualsense, I really dont get it.
So far i can read it here in the forum some are also struggle since a wile.
Let me know whats youre thoughts about it.
I hope we can figure it out.
Click to expand...
... I was finding it a bit too strange that a lot of the posters that were getting decent times on the previous X2019 TT in Road Atlant were also DS4 users.

I've seen you around for a while and yes, you are a very good driver, not the top of the crop but still a very high-tier driver, so I trust your judgement. I can't try myself since I don't have the PS4 version of the game.
And yes, a 2 second difference from just changing console/pads is waaaaaay too much. Something really must be going on.
 
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RacinLei
Soo i did a bit research today and looked over some profiles in the top 20, and so far the profiles are open for trophys i have some interresting findings.
70% in the top 20 are on ps4 and ca. the half are on dualshock the rest on wheel.
The other 30% are on ps5 but non of them is on a dualsense so far i can see it after watching the replays in cockpitview.

I mention it in the dualsense thread after patch 1.16 and got flames for it but it seems it happens again since patch 1.24 and especialy since patch 1.27.
I installed gt7 on my old ps4 pro and used the exact same settings, and guess what. First sector 43.2 instead of 44.8 second sector 1:15,8 instead of 1:17,8 and i stoped then. That is proof enough for me.
It seems the ps4 calculate the physiks in a diffrent way then ps5 And results in a bit more grip or the dualshock is more mild in steering and didnt cause a snapy rearend.

And no i dont search for an excuse, i will understand what happens and why ps5 user on Dualsense have to struggle.
Im not a child of sadness when it becomes to setting up a car the right way and carrie it fast arround the track like my SF19 times shows

View attachment 1218095

Something is going on here and i wanna know whats the plan behind it.
Is the ps4 not capeable to calculate it the same way or is it the dualsense, I really dont get it.
So far i can read it here in the forum some are also struggle since a wile.
Let me know whats youre thoughts about it.
I hope we can figure it out.
Click to expand...


I hadn't thought about this in a while, but I did notice something like this in the past. I had a PS5 in one residence and a PS4 in my other initially when GT7 came out. I would play on the PS5 1/2 the time and the PS4 the other 1/2 depending on where I was staying. I was noticing that I was able to go a bit quicker on the PS4 for some reason. Seemed strange to me considering with the DualSense on the PS5 I'm better able to modulate the throttle and brakes due to the feedback you get from the triggers that isn't there on the PS4. I would have assumed that meant less prone to instability problems if you can modulate brake/throttle easier.....but apparently not.

I've since picked up another PS5 and have stopped playing GT7 on my PS4 for several months now, but it sounds like that perceived advantage is still there maybe. I'm wondering if when I head to my other place if I should dig out my PS4 and give this TT a try on it and see if I can improve my time, haha.
 
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NekoPufferPPP
I've tried MCA's tune, I've tried Kie's tune, both are way too slippery...after a few hours though, I managed to stabilize the rear end somewhat, at least to a comfortably manageable level. This thing does not like to ride low. The higher I put it, the more grip I got in the rear. Stiff dampers and a soft suspension will absorb the bumpy track well, stiff front compression and rear expansion will help keep the car in line under braking, but you'll still need to be careful. A slight rake angle improved downforce on the rear end and allowed the car to turn in better at low speed. Wide body, wide tire offset, roll cage...all other things standard iirc.

I have a rare engine part installed, a "high lift camshaft S", not sure how that affects the car, but I guess it's worth noting. These things mess with the max rpm of the car, which affects the gear ratios.

Yes, I did move the ballast all the way to the back. Yes, it does improve traction, but only if your rear end is not riding too low.

View attachment 1218013
Click to expand...
This tune is seriously good. Loads of rear grip and the stupid oversteer is gone.

I’ve got it to a 6:57.1xx but there’s easily a few more seconds and a sub 6:50 might be possible with a perfect lap.

Thanks for sharing.
 
SPL170db
This tune definitely makes the car feel more planted and the rear is much less prone to dancing around compared to Mistah_MCA's and the tune on the previous page. Can definitely get on the power earlier and harder coming off corners with this tune. Good stuff.
Click to expand...
Yes I agree. I did run his tune first. But which tune to use also depends on driving style a bit.

Like I changed to Kie's which is more oversteery, but I still went faster. I guess controlled oversteer is more in the region what I want with this car. I feel like I can get earlier on the throttle with Kie's tune since the car turns in better. That's what I want really, my driving style is aggressive and early on the throttle, which is why I struggle with tyre saving so much. But one one lap I tend to go quicker with a bit more oversteer.
 
@Grimm6Jack

Thx m8, Dito ;)
i really hope they fix it with the next update again. I run a 5:06 green hell with super formula a 5:16 with the porsche gr1.
Its a shame what pd is doing. Also the new Bop setting for SF19 are horrible. Max 2000 rearwing mid 1400 frontwing, it is all set towarts steering wheel user. Before it was 1400 front and 1800 rear and i was able to go a low 1:48 at Spa and now it barly turns.
Pd forgot the roots where they come from.
It is still a consol game with its roots in controller gaming and at least 80% overall are on controller.
But this happens when Simracer dial in a Simracer with only there own faver in mind.
We will see what happens with the next update but i have only little hope for it 😞
 
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