Toronto Gun Violence - Blame America!

[FoolKiller]

Here is the story.

TORONTO, Ontario (AP) -- Canadian officials, seeking to make sense of another fatal shooting in what has been a record year for gun-related deaths, said Tuesday that along with a host of social ills, part of the problem stemmed from what they said was the United States exporting its violence.

Canadian Prime Minister Paul Martin and Toronto Mayor David Miller warned that Canada could become like the United States after gunfire erupted Monday on a busy street filled with holiday shoppers, killing a 15-year-old girl and wounding six bystanders -- the latest victims in a record surge in gun violence in Toronto.

yadda yadda yadda

"It's a sign that the lack of gun laws in the U.S. is allowing guns to flood across the border that are literally being used to kill people in the streets of Toronto," Miller said.

Miller said Toronto, a city of nearly three million, is still very safe compared to most American cities, but the illegal flow of weapons from the United States is causing the noticeable rise in gun violence.

"The U.S. is exporting its problem of violence to the streets of Toronto," he said.

Blame America (Canada)

Times have changed
Our kids are getting worse
They won't obey their parents
They just want to fart and curse!
Should we blame the government?
Or blame society?
Or should we blame the images on TV?
No, blame America
Blame America
With all their beady little eyes
And flappin' heads so full of lies
Blame America
Blame America
We need to form a full assault
It's America's fault!

Joking aside, is this really an issue that is America's fault or should the governing officials possibly look into what is making these kids become violent to begin with? The article goes on to mention other officials saying that this is just all political talk for reelections and that the real issue is that a gang problem is developing due to people in the impoverished areas not having the same access to aid programs they once had.

I was curious what others thought, especially from GTP members living in Toronto.

 

[Grand Prix]

Here is the story.




Joking aside, is this really an issue that is America's fault or should the governing officials possibly look into what is making these kids become violent to begin with? The article goes on to mention other officials saying that this is just all political talk for reelections and that the real issue is that a gang problem is developing due to people in the impoverished areas not having the same access to aid programs they once had.

I was curious what others thought, especially from GTP members living in Toronto.

Nah, it's just Paul Martin trying to win the election coming up, by blaming problems on another country. Things will be back to normal soon enough.

 

[Ghost C]

If it's "America's fault", as it were, that the Toronto locals were getting guns from America, should we not blame Canada's border patrol for allowing the weapons to get into the country in the first place?

Stupid article.

 

[Solid Lifters]

That guy is in idiot. Gun laws mean nothing to criminals. Criminals are the only people who shoot into crowds. Plus, we have so many stupid gun laws as it is. So many, that some are either being eliminated, changed or just flat-out being ignored.

Plus, Para Ordinance is a high quality, high capacity .45acp pistol manufacture from Canada. Why blame the US?

 

[Kylehnat]

Canadian Prime Minister Paul Martin and Toronto Mayor David Miller warned that Canada could become like the United States after gunfire erupted Monday on a busy street filled with holiday shoppers, killing a 15-year-old girl and wounding six bystanders -- the latest victims in a record surge in gun violence in Toronto.

Yeah, streets in American cities are sooooooo dangerous. It's a wonder any of us ever leave the house with impending death waiting outside

 

[Slicks]

There's an election coming up in a little over a month in Canada, so it's mainly Paul Martin attempting to cover his ass.
And Canada's gun laws are practically useless. Our Gun registry introduced a number of years ago (Must be 7 or so) has been an enormous waste of money and is making little difference. If you want a gun and don't want the government to know about it, it's entirely doable and possible. Just like any other country in the world.

 

[Disturbed07]

First, the world *****es that America is playing world police, then, they blame us for not having their laws. isnt it ironic?
I'll bet as much money as you'll believe that they never realize that the only people who won't listen to gun laws are criminals, and also that in a world without guns, like some people seem to want, it'll simply go to swords... then it's go to kitchen knives, somebody's always gonna have a weapon
I'd mention border patrol, and how they knabbed my brother with a tiny knife that's perfectly legal in America, and all that story, but that'd just make them look bad for not seeing those guns in somebody else's car....
I could also mention them banning my brothers girlfriend from America for a while, because she had to many shoes......and American's travel light. By the way, she's Canadian.....and I'm not kidding

 

[Ev0]

This is just a metter of passing the blame to an easy, popular target. America bashing is very trendy in Canada right now.

As for the gun violence, the city has nobody to blame but itself. The only way this can end is by eliminating the alienation people in gangs (or those who want to be in gangs) feel. They feel as if nobody cares about them, so in return, they don't care about anything. Even shooting a random person by accident.

And I'll be sick to my stomach if the government thinks another stupid gun law will help solve the problem. Guns don't kill people. Stupid people with guns kill people.

And on a side note, I think one of my friends might know one of the people who got shot in this incident. I'll have to talk to my friend after Christmas break ends.

 

[Swift]

Wow, nice to see the Canadian members chiming in with well informed opinions. 👍

You've all said what I would say. So I'll leave it there.

 

[Anderton Prime]

The girl who was shot on Boxing Day went to the same highschool as my cousin, but I haven't talked to her since Christmas Day.

I don't think the problemhas much - if anything - to do with America. In fact, it seems like a copout to simply blame America instead of taking a look at ourselves and trying to find ways to fix / improve our situation within Canada.

I don't know what it's like to live in some of the violent or crime-ridden neighbourhoods of the U.S., so I can't really say if we're "heading down the same path" or not. What I do know is that as recent as five years ago, you'd have to look hard to find a bad neighbourhood in Canada, and Toronto seems poised to become similar to New York, as it is the biggest city in Canada.

I live in the suburbs of Toronto, and I still feel relatively safe. But I have noticed an increase in petty crime out here; case in point I have had my car broken into once, my neighbour has caught a thief rummaging through his car in the middle of the night, the police busted a marijuana grow-house a few doors down from me, and other things like that. Right now there's not much violent crime where I live. Granted, we do have the odd sex crime, but that's to be expected in a large gathering of people. I'm afraid that things are only going to get worse, though. I don't see a solution, and it starts to wear thin the 80th time the mayor and the Police Chief of Toronto get together for a press conference after a fatal shooting death has occurred to officially "denounce" the violence and the criminals. We have been given more police to patrol the areas of Toronto that are becoming quite dangeorus, so we'll see if that makes any difference.

 

[Plague.Ghost]

If it's "America's fault", as it were, that the Toronto locals were getting guns from America, should we not blame Canada's border patrol for allowing the weapons to get into the country in the first place?

Stupid article.

We could just as easily blame your country for not banning guns and having them to bring to our country just as easily. Don't start an argument like that.

 

[Swift]

We could just as easily blame your country for not banning guns and having them to bring to our country just as easily. Don't start an argument like that.

No, you can't. It's not America's fault(in general) that Canada let's contraband weapons over it's borders. We could say the same thing about illegal immagrants from Mexico. It's OUR job to keep them out. Not the Mexican government's job. Though it would be nice if they helped. But when all is said and done, your borders are YOUR borders and it's up to no one but yourself( national government) to enforce those borders.

 

[Ev0]

In all honesty, smuggling stuff past the Canadian border is very easy. I've heard numerous stories of Canadians driving back into Canada from the US, where basically all Canada Customs does is ask a few questions, checks for ID, and lets you go on your way. Smuggling stuff into the country is easy as long as you have a clean record. This has to change if we want to limit the amount of illegal firearms brought into Canada (this I believe will be a problem that will never completely go away).

Also stepping up security at ports will be a good idea; lots of firearms and other bad things come in through Canadian ports with great ease. Again, an issue with Customs.

 

[Plague.Ghost]

Well it's not like they're going to search every car that goes through. If there's not suspicion or reason to do so, then why would they do something?


My point was, was that you're the source of the weapons, we're the source of the hostility. You have to keep the two seperate. An argument like that can go on forever, it's pathetic and I'm not going to be dragged into something as trivial as that.

 

[Disturbed07]

We could just as easily blame your country for not banning guns and having them to bring to our country just as easily. Don't start an argument like that.

here it is, like I said. First they complain and call us the "world police" than, they say they could blame us for not adapting their laws

 

[McLaren]

Well it's not like they're going to search every car that goes through. If there's not suspicion or reason to do so, then why would they do something?

My point was, was that you're the source of the weapons, we're the source of the hostility. You have to keep the two seperate. An argument like that can go on forever, it's pathetic and I'm not going to be dragged into something as trivial as that.

Then its the Canadian Border Patrols partial fault. They let the gun in. 👎

 

[Swift]

Then its the Canadian Border Patrols partial fault. They let the gun in. 👎

Amazing how that comes around so quickly huh?

 

[Duke]

We could just as easily blame your country for not banning guns and having them to bring to our country just as easily. Don't start an argument like that.

This is quite possibly one of the more stupiderer arguments I've ever heard.

The US is the only country that makes weapons, now? They couldn't come in from, ohhhh, ChinaRussiaCheckoslovakiaGermanyItalyIsraelEnglandCanadaorFrance, maybe? All of those are known to be major manufacturers and exporters of weapons.

 

[Ghost C]

Well, Duke, obviously those countries you listed only make guns because the war mongering psychopathic violent serial killers that is the population of the US want them. Obviously if we weren't so violent and quick to shoot people, there wouldn't be so many guns available in the US, and thus we're directly to blame for Canada's gun violence because possibly a few guns got smuggled over the border.

Obviously one hundred percent America's fault, we should be ashamed of ourselves, because it's obviously not Canada's problem to control Canada's borders, or to stop Canada's gun crimes, it's America's.

 

[Solid Lifters]

Hey! Look what's made in Canada! It's called, "The Duke!"

OK, if you want to know why all this "America is the fault" crap is being slung lately, just read below and figure out why.

Prime Minister Paul Martin incorrectly blamed the United States for gun crime in Canada by using an unsubstantiated figure to assert that 50 per cent of this country's gun crimes involve smuggled firearms, U.S. Ambassador David Wilkins said yesterday.
Mr. Wilkins said that Canadian officials admitted in meetings with U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice this week "that that figure was just grabbed out of thin air."...

The figure, which others have used previously, is not based on any statistical study that could be traced by The Globe and Mail, and police forces and other authorities said yesterday it is not verifiable.

"I know that figure of 50 per cent has been bandied about, but no one can substantiate that figure," said Staff Sergeant Paul Marsh, a spokesman for the Royal Canadian Mounted Police.


As noted Oct. 24, Martin's government says it is considering suing American gun manufacturers for failing to prevent the smuggling of their products across the border. (Campbell Clark, "Don't blame U.S. for gun crime, Canada told", Globe and Mail, Oct. 27).

Raising the question: did we do this during Prohibition to Canada's whisky distillers, when their products flooded into this country across both land and water borders? And if we didn't sue, could there be a lesson in that about the need for nations to respect each others' sovereignty?

Canada is looking into ways to sue U.S. gun manufacturers for the spread of illegal weapons into this country, the Toronto Star has learned....

The policy will also be seen as another shot by Prime Minister Paul Martin's government across the bow of Canada-U.S. relations.

Government sources told the Star yesterday that Canada will be looking into "every legal option" to stem a tide of crimes involving weapons that make their way into this country illegally from the United States, whether they're sold through the Internet or smuggled across the border.

That includes possible suits against U.S. manufacturers, launched either in the United States or in this country if the firm has assets here as well, the sources said. Though no precise estimates are available, Toronto police have said repeatedly that almost half the gun crimes committed in Canada involved illegal, U.S. weapons.


(Susan Delacourt and Les Whittington, Toronto Star, Oct. 22 (reg))

 

[Plague.Ghost]

This is quite possibly one of the more stupiderer arguments I've ever heard.

The US is the only country that makes weapons, now? They couldn't come in from, ohhhh, ChinaRussiaCheckoslovakiaGermanyItalyIsraelEnglandCanadaorFrance, maybe? All of those are known to be major manufacturers and exporters of weapons.

*sigh*

They've supposedly traced the weapons back to USA. That's why I use USA as the comparison. I kind of live 10 minutes away from this, so I'm quite familiar with it.


And you've all missed my point. It's a blame fest, nothing more. I'm not advocating it. I'm not taking sides. What I'm saying is that you could blame Canada for letting the guns in, or we could blame you for having so many weapons readily available and free to held with little consequence. They cancel each other out and there's no productive point in arguing over it.

 

[Jay]

As noted Oct. 24, Martin's government says it is considering suing American gun manufacturers for failing to prevent the smuggling of their products across the border.

Lmao for real?

 

[Solid Lifters]

Lmao for real?

Yeah, it's for real! These Canadian morons actually think American gun manufacturers can control their products after they are shipped from their manufacturing facilities. Stupid, huh?

 

[Ghost C]

Canada should be fired. We gave them a trial run to see if they could manage on their own, they failed. Time for a big fat "REJECTION" to be stamped on the "Please don't hurt us Mr. U.S." form submitted by Canada. We'll just call it "Norther America"

Lawsuits filed against gun manufacturers? Come on, US citizens can't even win lawsuits against gun manufacturers, and US courts tend to like US citizens, what makes Canada think they'll do better?

 

[McLaren]

*sigh*

They've supposedly traced the weapons back to USA. That's why I use USA as the comparison. I kind of live 10 minutes away from this, so I'm quite familiar with it.


And you've all missed my point. It's a blame fest, nothing more. I'm not advocating it. I'm not taking sides. What I'm saying is that you could blame Canada for letting the guns in, or we could blame you for having so many weapons readily available and free to held with little consequence. They cancel each other out and there's no productive point in arguing over it.

But how?

The Canadian border will actually be at fault.

The side leans more in the America's favor in that situation.
Besides, the gun was made in Canada.

Why should we take responsibility for another country's stupidity? They obviously don't have the big a problem with gun makers if they manufactrer their own weapons.

 

[Plague.Ghost]

But how?

The Canadian border will actually be at fault.

The side leans more in the America's favor in that situation.
Besides, the gun was made in Canada.

Why should we take responsibility for another country's stupidity? They obviously don't have the big a problem with gun makers if they manufactrer their own weapons.

Don't ask me, I never said you have to. I'm merely pointing our the stupid arguments that 2 sides can take and that we should avoid it.

I heard the gun was made in USA, I didn't say it was.
I'm not saying who should take responsibility because it was a single person (or maybe 2— I heard it was rival gangs and people caught in crossfire as well) killing someone else. The only people to blame are the killers, and Paul Martin for being such a ****.

Just to be clear— voting for him was like choosing between Margeret Thatcher or Stalin.

 

[emad]

Yeah, it's for real! These Canadian morons actually think American gun manufacturers can control their products after they are shipped from their manufacturing facilities. Stupid, huh?

Bush and Kerry both made some similarly outrageous claims when election time came up. Just look at all the 'video game bills' that are popping up all over the place. They have no substance behind them, but they do it because it's these sensational claim that gets votes for politicians.

 

[Solid Lifters]

Bush and Kerry both made some similarly outrageous claims when election time came up. Just look at all the 'video game bills' that are popping up all over the place. They have no substance behind them, but they do it because it's these sensational claim that gets votes for politicians.

That, but both are more about money. The video game industry has no Government interference. They want to come in and do their typical snow-job and suck funds from the industry. The votes from women they'll gain are only the icing on the cake.

 

[VeilsideR33sub]

Man , this is serious , gun-running will produce defense-with-firearms for criminal scenarios . But the problem cannot be laid on the US doorstep , even though Canada is the Neighb in question . The epidemic is worldwide gun sanctions or no .
Ideas about controling the population are not ideas about incorporating the population and in what ? Yep , what vessel ?

 

[emad]

That, but both are more about money. The video game industry has no Government interference. They want to come in and do their typical snow-job and suck funds from the industry. The votes from women they'll gain are only the icing on the cake.

I haven't seen funds sucked from the industry. What I HAVE seen is bills being passed and then shot down in court within weeks of being passed. States continue to try and pass these bills despite the fact that they're gross encroachments on freedom of speech.

Tax payers money gets blown, news headlines get made, the enemy of the day looks bad. That's really all that's happening lately.