I'm a late comer to this thread (literally just read the whole thread in the last two days - well, actually just started reading the mid-January posts forward, given that's when this car finally debuted), and I've seen a lot of valid points...and also a lot of BS it seems. I've been following the development of this car for a while, so naturally I want to add my 2 cents, as well as add some info (and my comments are general, not directed at anyone in particular).
It strikes me as somewhat humorous that so many people don't understand much of the history around the A80. To understand that you need to understand the economic climate of Japan back in the late 80s and early 90s. At the time the Yen was seriously undervalued against the dollar and other western currencies. This gave JDM manufacturers the advantage of building sports cars to ridiculously high technological and quality standards, while still being able to sell them in the west for reasonable amounts of money. Unfortunately that ended when economic conditions changed in the mid 90s. That's why the MSRP of the Supra, RX7, NSX, 3000GT and 300ZX all skyrocketed. The cars had been designed for drastically different exchange rates; there was no way the carmakers could hold pricing without losing a lot of money on every unit sold.
Seems like the only people that consider the MkIV notable for drag racing are people that weren't around (or paying attention) when the car debuted. It was never a one trick pony. Acceleration, handling, braking - the MkIV excelled at all of these and was able to beat up on considerably more expensive cars than it's traditional rivals.
Ever since rumors started circulating about a new Supra, I dismissed the speculation (and desire from some people) for the car to be a $100k+ halo car. First, because I'd never be able to afford one. Second, because it's stupid given how much of a sports car dead zone there is in the $40-75k range for anything under 3500 lb. Third, because the Supra was never about being unobtainium. Fourth, because playing the "inflation adjusted" game is pretty stupid for sports cars (esp given the unique economic situation). The A80 was built to a very high standard but was also done so because it could still be sold at a reasonable amount (see above). In that way, I'm relatively pleased with the A90's market position. Though given the vehicle weight and power ratings, I'd say it's still at least $5000 too high (all amounts quoted in this post are USD).
However, the more technical information we get about the A90, the more it appears to be a rebadged BMW. Which is really unfortunate. I get that the automotive climate is vastly different than it was 25 years ago, but it strikes me as pathetic that the world's largest automaker (I know the title keeps going back and forth with VAG) can't manage to develop it's own flagship sports car (or any sports car for that mater, see: Twins) So that I don't get. Honestly I'd be happy as hell if they had called the Toyota GT86 the Celica, and then made a more high powered version (turbo?) the Supra (just like the Celica/Supra of old) And/or took the Twins' platform, and heavily modified it to be a stand-alone Supra model. Or why not co-develop the Supra to use the next gen Lexus RC platform? God knows the RC is getting long in the tooth, and that platform (mismash) was a disaster from the start so one would think it would be up for replacement soon.
I could still overlook that the car's a rebadged BMW, however. I could get past the fact that I'd be dealing with unreliable (long term) BMW hardware, even though I tend to keep my cars for a while (5+ years) and do most of my own maintenance work. I could still overlook that potential headache. But no manual transmission for me? Dealbreaker. Maybe I'm still tempted to go test drive one at the dealership, but I don't buy sports cars with 2 pedals. I drive sports cars for the fun of driving them. On public roads, and on race tracks. And I couldn't care less if I'm 2 seconds slower around a circuit with a manual than an automatic, because it's more fun and satisfying to me. I realize that's an opinion, but I have a serious problem with transmissions that I can't control via direct mechanical connections. If a computer is involved, it'll override your commands at some point. It's as simple as that. And that drives me crazy. BMW's little stubby (ridiculous) shifter? That's connected to nothing. Tada-san has confidently proclaimed that the Supra will be the most fun and involving car to drive in it's price segment. And that Porsche is their focus. Stating that much and then not offering a manual is hypocritical in my view. Especially given that every Porsche with which this car could potentially compete IS available with a manual transmission.
Bottom line for me, is that if I'm spending $55,000 on a rebadged BMW and prefer a manual transmission, then why buy this over an M2? Unless someone is in love with the styling of the A90, I see very little reason to pick it over the BMW. Ahh, the styling. Overall I'd say it's pretty good! I could do without a lot of the fake vents, SPECIFICALLY the fake rear fender ones built into the rear doors. Has anyone photoshopped those out yet? I bet the car would still look good. The hood looks bloated, and is too tall, but otherwise car looks good. The styling isn't enough to win me over by itself, but compared to some of the hideous designs that are actually green-lit for production these days, it's pretty good. Performance...
Why are people using the Toyota quoted 0-60 time as such a measuring stick for the car's potential performance? I get that it's all we have to go off of at this point, but any reasonable (car) person should be aware of several things. 1) Manufacturer supplied times are usually conservative (though in this case I'm actually not so sure). 2) 0-60 is a horrible performance metric and has very little to do with a car's actual acceleration capabilities. 3) Has very little bearing on real life day to day public street driving. 4) An automatic transmission coupled with a forced induction engine will always have a slight edge in a 0-60 time, as you can build boost while holding the brake down. It's also ridiculously ironic that the same people slamming the A80 for only being good at drag racing are the same people propping up the A90 for having a great 0-60 time!
What's a good metric for a car's acceleration time? 5-60 mph, or 50-100 mph. If anyone thinks that a 335hp 3400lb car is going to magically accelerate harder than a 455 hp 3750lb Camaro SS then you've got another thing coming. BMW's unit for hp isn't different than anyone else's. However, there is the point to be made that BMW underrates their engines. Which isn't technically true, they just tune them to put out their rated power under the worst of conditions. Thus, if you dyno a turbo BMW engine under optimal conditions, chances are you'll best the factory rating. I applaud BMW for this - all manufacturers should do as much. Frankly I'm a bit shocked that the Supra has "only" 335 hp given that the basically same engine puts out 382 hp in the Z40i and M340i (excuse me if I used incorrect BMW model designations, I can't always keep up with their nonsense). It kind of shows you who is wearing the pants in this relationship.
Historically the Supra has competed with the Z/Fairlady, and given that the 370's been around for a while you would think that would make it an easy target for Toyota. So I'm a bit stumped as to why they just didn't try to do that from the start, especially given that the car's performance numbers aren't much better, while costing considerably more. They put themselves into a tight spot, especially claiming that their target is the Cayman. As much as I hate the 718's 4 banger engines, they do make the cars fast. Base Cayman with PDK can hit 60 in 3.9 seconds and the S knocks a few tenths off that. Less weight, similar power output, superior drivetrain configuration - straight up the Cayman wins on all counts. The Mustang GT and Camaro SS are way too large (for my tastes) but despite their weight disadvantages their V8 engines more than make up for it against the Supra. Factor in their roughly $40k costs of entry, it's an uphill battle for the Supra. I'd also like to add that the bias against domestics shown in this thread is pretty funny. Totally justifiable in the past, but the current pony car offerings are world class and to argue otherwise is just being ignorant (this from someone that's never owned a domestic - just saying). It's a bit sad too, seeing that from enthusiasts. Naturally aspirated V8s and manual transmissions should be celebrated these days. And let's not forget how much the domestic automakers actually cater to enthusiasts, with annual revisions and continual upgrades. When's the last time a JDM car maker did that? BTW the Mustang & Camaro -> pony cars; Challenger -> muscle car. Splitting hairs maybe, but that's my context.
Anyway that's my piece. If you didn't read all that because it's too long, well, I'm not sure I'd read it either! Anyway, for context:
Current ride: 987 Porsche Cayman S
Previous: BRZ Limited Supercharged, S2000, Integra GS-R
