Toyota Supra (A90)

  • Thread starter RocZX
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Silver Arrows
I wish I had the endless capacity for denial and not wanting to admit I got owned on the internet by people who actually know a thing or two.
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Oh so owned by jealous people desperate for an affordable "supra" badged toyota.

05XR8
It was already addressed why GT-R moved up-market. They've got the Z car to do that. Next!
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And toyota has the 86, but better to sale a 40k "Supra" then that. lmao
 
Supaboost
I have no need to pretend or tout company lines like some. The supra community despises this car, just pointing that out sure infuriated many of you.
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Assuming that broad stroke you just painted is actually true. You mean, specifically, the Mk IV Supra community "despises" this car?

Good.

The Mk IV Supra community will never be happy with anything other than some idealized, fantasy idea of what the Mk IV Supra was, and all the circle jerking confirms it. The Mk IV Supra is a specific product unique to the social, cultural, economical, technological, political and legal forces of that time. So what's the point of catering specifically to this impossible group when there's no way Toyota could ever win?

Now that's out of the way, the rest of us can just ignore that tiny, and frankly irrelevant, group and we can actually focus on the merits of the Mk V Supra as a contemporary sports car.
 
Supaboost
Oh so owned by jealous people desperate for an affordable "supra" badged toyota.



And toyota has the 86, but better to sale a 40k "Supra" then that. lmao
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Uh, no. GT86 has nowhere near the performance of the Z or Cayman. A factory turbo won't fit on the flat four, to boost power to your end all be all Camaro or C7 hp levels.

In Australia, a BR-Z costs about $42kAUD. To get that platform to 350hp+, have all the creature upscale GT car comforts, leather, fat wheels and tyres, suspension, premium dash, switchgear, exterior design changes to bring it upmarket, Is think it'd be the same price as the A90. Imagine those development costs.

They'd have to reengineer the 86/BRZ just to accommodate the new engine. Not to mention R&D the chassis balance they'll lose with such a dramatic change.

Man, listen. I don't know all the minute details like many of the memebera here with such experience, but I don't kid myself when faced with facts. And trust... I'm a dreamer.
Whatever profession you're in, change to selling fertiliser. You'd make a mint!
 
For a community that absolutely "despises" this car, they sure have been inquiring like crazy about dealer allocations.
https://www.supraforums.com/forum/showthread.php?1114131-Unable-to-configure-order
https://www.supramkv.com/threads/wh...ships-when-should-we-expect-test-drives.1553/

Or where to see one.
https://www.supraforums.com/forum/showthread.php?1114457-Where-to-see-the-MKV-Supra-in-person

Or what the Japanese think.
https://www.supramkv.com/threads/japans-mkv-reception.1605/

The reality is much like everything else in life these days. The car only appears to be a "flop" because the most vocal about it are the Mk. IV owners who wanted their exact car, & end up resorting to arguments about what you can buy used for the same money.
Slightly used 650hp C7 Z06. Some are in the mid 50'sK anyway.
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How much does that really say about the intelligence to these people then?
Maybe. Of course a MKIV auto sold for $50K today on BAT and a very low mile 6-spd sold for $121K not long ago on BAT!
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If people are being projected as morons for buying a new Supra when a used C7 Z06 is a better car, then Mk. IV owners must be colossal idiots for spending $121,000 on a used Mk. IV when this starts at $120,900.
1528915769808.jpg
 
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The ama on Reddit about this car was quite a trainwreck (click the title to see the questions and responses).


I'm all with the "not as cool as FT1 and Mk4" or "Not powerful enough". But the most turn off about this car is the fact that apart from the front and rear fenders and some Toyota stickers and logo, everything, even the interior and engine, are exatly the same as the new BMW Z4.

Hell, they even didn't have a manual gearstick transmission just like the BMW counterpart, something that basically all car enthusiasts let alone Supra Enthusiasts will cave into.

It's just disappointing that its not original enough for its namesake.
 
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FoRiZon
The ama on Reddit about this car was quite a trainwreck (sclick the title to see the questions and responses).


I'm all with the "not as cool as FT1 and Mk4" or "Not powerful enough". But the most turn off about this car is the fact that apart from the front and rear fenders and some Toyota stickers and logo, everything, even the interior and engine, are exatly the same as the new BMW Z4.

Hell, they even didn't have a manual gearstick transmission just like the BMW counterpart, something that basically all car enthusiasts let alone Supra Enthusiasts will cave into.

It's just disappointing that its not original enough for its namesake.
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Okay. Take the badges off the Mk IV. File the letters, numbers and emblem off the engine. What makes it a Supra?
 
05XR8
Okay. Take the badges off the Mk IV. File the letters, numbers and emblem off the engine. What makes it a Supra?
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Atleast past Supras are all original from Toyota. It seems bit wrong that apart from the exterior, all from most of the interior, engine, and chassis are made from another manufacturer, especially considering its for one of Toyota's flagship.

I do know Toyota has a relationship with BMW to make the car. But I dont expect on what extent Toyota "borrows". It has exact same spareparts and even has a iDrive system. It also didnt have a gearstick option just like the BMW counterpart, which many drivers / tuner car like Nissan 370Z and many sports cars from similar price point have.

I get it that it has to be done to cut costs and they reserve all high end and powered ones to the Lexus. But for what it stands its a bit dissapointing imho. If you play Gran Turismo 6, think about this car:
latest

Which is basically a Viper based Alfa, right down to the chassis, engine, and interior. Except instead of limited concept car, its actually sold commercially as a flagship.
 
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FoRiZon
The ama on Reddit about this car was quite a trainwreck (sclick the title to see the questions and responses).


I'm all with the "not as cool as FT1 and Mk4" or "Not powerful enough". But the most turn off about this car is the fact that apart from the front and rear fenders and some Toyota stickers and logo, everything, even the interior and engine, are exatly the same as the new BMW Z4.

Hell, they even didn't have a manual gearstick transmission just like the BMW counterpart, something that basically all car enthusiasts let alone Supra Enthusiasts will cave into.

It's just disappointing that its not original enough for its namesake.
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This is almost right up there with Steven Seagals', different is this one isn't hilarious, just total trainwreck.
 
FoRiZon
It also didnt have a gearstick option just like the BMW counterpart, which many drivers / tuner car like Nissan 370Z and many sports cars from similar price point have.
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According to Jalopnik, the Z4 counter-part does have a manual.
The easiest path to our manual swap might be to look at the European spec 2019 BMW Z4 2.0i, which will be available with a manual transmission. While that transmission is not a good choice for the Supra since it only comes mated to the four-cylinder engine, and in the U.S. market the Supra is six-cylinder only for now, the surrounding components can be useful.

One of the bigger pieces in doing a manual swap may have already been taken care of by BMW, as the manual version of the Z4 appears to use the exact same firewall as the Supra. This means that even though the Supra is not available with the manual, all the mounting points for a clutch pedal and clutch master cylinder should already be present. Using the same firewall between cars is not unusual, especially in the case of BMW, as the E46 M3 had provisions for a clutch pedal even in the SMG version. Since we know that the Z4 clutch pedal and master cylinder will mount to the car, they can be ordered from European BMW dealers once the parts become available to solve that part of the equation.
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https://jalopnik.com/what-it-would-take-to-give-the-2020-toyota-supra-the-ma-1832173633

In any case, it's hard to fault Toyota on the transmission. For as much as others are still offering it, the other side of the market is still moving away from it. Your link outlines that Toyota will wait and see what the demand is; they want to see if there's an actual consumer base or if it's just a bunch of internet folks. Ford is likely doing the same with the GT500. The link even further touches on why Toyota (& others) have moved away from the manual.
Kai added that a stick-shift Supra is possible. Market feedback will play a big role, but Kai also hinted that if it does develop one, it needs to fall within the right financial reasons. Developing a manual-transmission Supra for the masses is the most expensive option, though not necessarily the best one.
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Gone are the days of pouring money into developing different transmissions and 1 of them ends up taking up 90-95% of the production line. Makes the costs of building the other appear wasteful b/c they developed a product no one actually ended up wanting.
 

Video should start at appropriate timestamp
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I suspect that the best way forward for the manual Supra is the same model described by Chris Harris here and later employed by Porsche on the 911R. They could most likely charge $10k more for a manual Supra and sell several thousand of them. If they made a special edition like the R (add a wing, a bodykit, and maybe a few performance changes like an exhaust and some form of weight reduction, and call it the RZ) and limited the production, the demand would probably be even higher. If they make 5k units with a $10k markup then they'd have $50,000,000 in revenue to work with in order to cover development costs, and they could probably get away with using a BMW gearbox. If they could get the gearbox from the M240i then I suspect that they'd come out ahead financially, and once the development costs are covered could charge $4-5k for a manual option later in the car's lifespan without the other special edition bits, which might help reinvigorate sales and boost profit margins without costing Toyota much at all.
 
Beeblebrox237

Video should start at appropriate timestamp
​

I suspect that the best way forward for the manual Supra is the same model described by Chris Harris here and later employed by Porsche on the 911R. They could most likely charge $10k more for a manual Supra and sell several thousand of them. If they made a special edition like the R (add a wing, a bodykit, and maybe a few performance changes like an exhaust and some form of weight reduction, and call it the RZ) and limited the production, the demand would probably be even higher. If they make 5k units with a $10k markup then they'd have $50,000,000 in revenue to work with in order to cover development costs, and they could probably get away with using a BMW gearbox. If they could get the gearbox from the M240i then I suspect that they'd come out ahead financially, and once the development costs are covered could charge $4-5k for a manual option later in the car's lifespan without the other special edition bits, which might help reinvigorate sales and boost profit margins without costing Toyota much at all.
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We'll see about the supposedly TRD and GRMN versions. TRD might be cosmetic while GRMN might be the hotter version.
 
05XR8
Uh, no. GT86 has nowhere near the performance of the Z or Cayman.
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But the Z is nowhere near as good a car as the Cayman, though.

But I agree. I own a GT86, but when I got into my mate's Cayman S for a week I was in love with the thing. It's just a completely different level of sportscar.

Then again, I've always thought the Cayman S is the perfect sportscar.

Here in Europe, you're looking at €7-8k for a supercharger kit that will deliver 300hp. But then you're looking at all the additional stuff: tyres, brakes, two things which the GT86 desperately needs with additional performance, suspension, performance parts to accommodate the supercharger kit like exhaust, header, that kind of stuff, etc. it's just way too expensive for what you get in return. At that pricepoint, you may as well just get a Cayman or an M2.
 
Bram Turismo
But the Z is nowhere near as good a car as the Cayman, though.

But I agree. I own a GT86, but when I got into my mate's Cayman S for a week I was in love with the thing. It's just a completely different level of sportscar.

Then again, I've always thought the Cayman S is the perfect sportscar.

Here in Europe, you're looking at €7-8k for a supercharger kit that will deliver 300hp. But then you're looking at all the additional stuff: tyres, brakes, two things which the GT86 desperately needs with additional performance, suspension, performance parts to accommodate the supercharger kit like exhaust, header, that kind of stuff, etc. it's just way too expensive for what you get in return. At that pricepoint, you may as well just get a Cayman or an M2.
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Or a Supra! :P:sly:
 
Beeblebrox237

Video should start at appropriate timestamp
​

I suspect that the best way forward for the manual Supra is the same model described by Chris Harris here and later employed by Porsche on the 911R. They could most likely charge $10k more for a manual Supra and sell several thousand of them. If they made a special edition like the R (add a wing, a bodykit, and maybe a few performance changes like an exhaust and some form of weight reduction, and call it the RZ) and limited the production, the demand would probably be even higher. If they make 5k units with a $10k markup then they'd have $50,000,000 in revenue to work with in order to cover development costs, and they could probably get away with using a BMW gearbox. If they could get the gearbox from the M240i then I suspect that they'd come out ahead financially, and once the development costs are covered could charge $4-5k for a manual option later in the car's lifespan without the other special edition bits, which might help reinvigorate sales and boost profit margins without costing Toyota much at all.
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Afterwards, Toyota releases a normal Supra with a manual under the Touring Package and pisses off all the Supra boys again. :P
 
Silver Arrows
I've so desperately wanted to say that but I don't want to get banned.
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I'm sure I have no idea what you're talking about.

;)

I can't imagine such a remark is in violation of forum guidelines as it wasn't directed at anyone in particular, rather it was a paraphrasing of a common expression to adress an internet archetype that is just so far beyond cliché at this point.
 
TexRex
I'm sure I have no idea what you're talking about.

;)

I can't imagine such a remark is in violation of forum guidelines as it wasn't directed at anyone in particular, rather it was a paraphrasing of a common expression to adress an internet archetype that is just so far beyond cliché at this point.
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The hilarious thing is that all this bashing from the A80 fans is legitimately pointless considering that the most any automotive journo has gotten with the A90 Supra is a controlled first drive of the car. I'd be able to at least not laugh their complaints out of the building instantly if they waited until magazines and sites were able to actually give comparisons and tests, both short and long term. Until then - all of this whining and the hissyfits being thrown is literally for nothing.
 
Silver Arrows
The hilarious thing is that all this bashing from the A80 fans is legitimately pointless considering that the most any automotive journo has gotten with the A90 Supra is a controlled first drive of the car. I'd be able to at least not laugh their complaints out of the building instantly if they waited until magazines and sites were able to actually give comparisons and tests, both short and long term. Until then - all of this whining and the hissyfits being thrown is literally for nothing.
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I have a feeling it won't matter. The car could turn out to be a real surprise, but magazine benchmark racing with numbers is all they actually care about. "Good ol' Americuh" boys used to have the same mentality in the 2000's (when the Euro/Japanese companies had less power, but built a better track car) before Chevy/Ford decided to show everyone they could build a circuit monster as good as anyone else.
 
McLaren
I have a feeling it won't matter. The car could turn out to be a real surprise, but magazine benchmark racing with numbers is all they actually care about. "Good ol' Americuh" boys used to have the same mentality in the 2000's before Chevy/Ford decided to show everyone they could build a track car as good as anyone else.
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Which is pretty much what everybody has been trying to tell Supaboost since he made his burner account and barged in here trying to defend the honor of the A80.

to the A80 fans and owners, all they want is just a modern MkIV. Even then - they probably would find something to pick apart that it isn't up to their standards. It really goes back to the cult of personality that many JDM sports cars, and especially the marquee ones like the Supra and the GT-R, have built up in the late 90's and early 2000's, even forgetting the vehicles that came before it, especially in the Supra's case.

But as you said, it won't matter because these people are all living in their own enclosed bubble of a world. Well - at least some of them will be able to afford said vehicles instead of it being a $100,000 boondoggle that barely moves the needle like the new NSX was.
 
Crash
The Mk IV Supra community will never be happy with anything other than some idealized, fantasy idea of what the Mk IV Supra was, and all the circle jerking confirms it. The Mk IV Supra is a specific product unique to the social, cultural, economical, technological, political and legal forces of that time. So what's the point of catering specifically to this impossible group when there's no way Toyota could ever win?
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Yup, and I love the MKIV.

Still diggin' the A90.
 

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