Track Limit Abuse by most Top 10 Drivers

[Robben]

It was the last lap and he won. No penalty.

But did he get an orange SR at the end? That's where it really hurts.

 

[cleanLX]

No orange SR, he was praised in the racing media for weeks, months, even years afterwards...
At the time it was called "The pass in the grass"... I guess now it's just called the "The pass".

 

[Brzlav]

But did he get an orange SR at the end? That's where it really hurts.

You could play "CART world series" and see what happens :-)

 

[JacksHerer]

That pains me.

 

[Mr P]

Just tried one of today's TT events @ Dragon Trail II in the X-bow.. seems you can't go outside any of the rumbles onto the red stuff without getting slapped with a penalty? What gives PD? make your minds up please! Can we go outside the rumbles or not?

You gotta love the inconsistency of this games applied track limits!! haha 👎

 

[zzz_pt]

Just tried one of today's TT events @ Dragon Trail II in the X-bow.. seems you can't go outside any of the rumbles onto the red stuff without getting slapped with a penalty? What gives PD? make your minds up please! Can we go outside the rumbles or not?

You gotta love the inconsistency of this games applied track limits!! haha 👎

Depends on what's outside of the rumbles. On DT, if I remember correctly, you have a red surface beyond the black and white strips. If you put 4 wheels there you get a penalty. In Lake Maggiore's, if you put 4 wheels on the red surface you also get a penalty.

 

[demeaning pie]

No orange SR, he was praised in the racing media for weeks, months, even years afterwards...
At the time it was called "The pass in the grass"... I guess now it's just called the "The pass".

The media is the key word there. If the sports reporters like you, they will praise. Rossi's pass on Stoner in 08 is no different, same with Marquez on Rossi a few years later. The position should have been returned in all cases IMO, as you should not be able to gain a position by running off designated track boundaries.

 

[rex1825]

I don't mind all the cutting if kerbs allow it, what I do mind is locked setup and driving aids that are not valid (TCS, ESP and ABS is OK if you really need it) adding cauntersteer help, brake cones etc is absurd in competitive racing game. It is OK for practise... But please.

One of the solutions to this cutting scenarios could be addition of rule that none of the wheels can be out side of drivable surface in turns, this way only two wheels could be placed on kerbs and other two on asphalt.

Cheers...

 

[Stotty]

The media is the key word there. If the sports reporters like you, they will praise. Rossi's pass on Stoner in 08 is no different, same with Marquez on Rossi a few years later. The position should have been returned in all cases IMO, as you should not be able to gain a position by running off designated track boundaries.

Seriously... you just called out one of the single greatest battles in motorsports history (Rossi v Stoner, Laguna '08)... meh, stop stuff like that in the heat of battle and you kill the beauty of the sport.

 

[demeaning pie]

I don't mind all the cutting if kerbs allow it, what I do mind is locked setup and driving aids that are not valid (TCS, ESP and ABS is OK if you really need it) adding cauntersteer help, brake cones etc is absurd in competitive racing game. It is OK for practise... But please.

Every track I've been to has brake markers at virtually all of the corners. This game, not so much.

 

[Leggacy]

@Famine : I’ve read what you’ve said and i see where you’re coming from and in some ways agree but; For instance, eau rouge. Spa is historic and has been used for some time, the cars are going faster than ever and now are starting to dictate the line of the track. There is no penalty for leaving the track there such as barriers or gravel traps etc. Anything you put there would cause a massive possibly life ending accident. This is kind of an inherited grey area and I think changing the track would spoil it. As for COTA, it’s a poorly designed track. Don’t get me wrong it’s great/challenging to drive but there is no incentive to stay on the track, no gravel traps or grass to slow you or unbalance the car. On that note I’m not really looking forward to Paul Ricard this year, it too has massive tarmac runoffs. Get ready for lots of dummy throwing as they accuse each other of leaving/cutting the track.
Verstapens penalty was justified as he completely left the track at COTA to make that move, if that had been a qualifying lap it would have been nulled.
Which brings me back to the vid of the lap in question. If that’s for a leaderboard then it should be treated the same as a qualifying lap, so in my opinion not Valid. In a race you might make those cuts through being off line or making a mistake but that’s not what’s happening here.
Also, Ziardi’s overtake at the corkscrew at laguna seca: it was gutsy, brilliant and a little too much off track for me. I would have thought anyone making that move today would get a penalty. It’s some amazing driving and great to watch but I guess I was just down to the stewards on the day.

 

[zzz_pt]

I don't mind all the cutting if kerbs allow it, what I do mind is locked setup and driving aids that are not valid (TCS, ESP and ABS is OK if you really need it) adding cauntersteer help, brake cones etc is absurd in competitive racing game. It is OK for practise... But please.

One of the solutions to this cutting scenarios could be addition of rule that none of the wheels can be out side of drivable surface in turns, this way only two wheels could be placed on kerbs and other two on asphalt.

Cheers...

I like "my" CSA for when I'm not serious and just want to put a lap in asap and have fun. Yeah, I'm lazy. On the other hand, I don't like TCS unless my tires are dying off.

Drive with whatever the game puts at your disposal. Fastest way will be without aids, but I don't mind when I'm driving with ABS only and others aren't. Sometimes I'll use TCS too, especially if I'm physically tired. If I'm slower, I don't mind, as long as I'm having fun. It's a game.

/off topic

Which brings me back to the vid of the lap in question. If that’s for a leaderboard then it should be treated the same as a qualifying lap, so in my opinion not Valid

Opinions are what divide people in this thread. But the game says it was valid. And the game is not biased. All leaderboards in GT ever have been filled with laps like the one in the OP where people will push the limits of what the game allows them to push.

 

[Mr P]

Depends on what's outside of the rumbles. On DT, if I remember correctly, you have a red surface beyond the black and white strips. If you put 4 wheels there you get a penalty. In Lake Maggiore's, if you put 4 wheels on the red surface you also get a penalty.

Yes you are correct zzz_pt, The red stuff on DT is right next to the rumbles.. and at turn 4 on maggiore for example there is a 10 foot gap after the rumbles before the red stuff even appears! So either PD is saying the red stuff is the track edge or they messed up at maggiore and let some kid mess with the programming whilst they were out having lunch and he added all that extra road beyond the rumbles and they didn't notice it was still there when finalizing the game? haha

Either way the red stuff gives you the penalty.. what a dilemma

 

[Spurgy 777]

@Famine You call that going past the white lines? How about this.

From this video;

 

[Leggacy]

I like "my" CSA for when I'm not serious and just want to put a lap in asap and have fun. Yeah, I'm lazy. On the other hand, I don't like TCS unless my tires are dying off.

Drive with whatever the game puts at your disposal. Fastest way will be without aids, but I don't mind when I'm driving with ABS only and others aren't. Sometimes I'll use TCS too, especially if I'm physically tired. If I'm slower, I don't mind, as long as I'm having fun. It's a game.

/off topic



Opinions are what divide people in this thread. But the game says it was valid. And the game is not biased. All leaderboards in GT ever have been filled with laps like the one in the OP where people will push the limits of what the game allows them to push.

Maybe I’m too sportsman like to survive in this world anymore

 

[Famine]

@Famine : I’ve read what you’ve said and i see where you’re coming from and in some ways agree but; For instance, eau rouge. Spa is historic and has been used for some time, the cars are going faster than ever and now are starting to dictate the line of the track. There is no penalty for leaving the track there such as barriers or gravel traps etc. Anything you put there would cause a massive possibly life ending accident. This is kind of an inherited grey area and I think changing the track would spoil it.

I didn't say anything about putting barriers or gravel traps anywhere. I certainly didn't say anything about doing so at real-life circuits, and even more didn't say anything about doing it at Spa. Most of all I didn't say anything about doing it to Eau Rouge...

... although you might be surprised to learn that Eau Rouge was reprofiled as recently as 2002. You'd be amazed at how different it looked right up until the early 1980s. Enjoy.

@Famine You call that going past the white lines? How about this.

Bahaha. "He needed to get Siri out to find out where the track was."

I recall the exit to Porsche Curves at Le Mans is routinely lengthened too.

 

[zzz_pt]

Maybe I’m too sportsman like to survive in this world anymore

Maybe. Maybe I'm too competitive.

 

[Mr616]

@Famine You call that going past the white lines? How about this.

View attachment 708616
View attachment 708617
View attachment 708620

From this video;

End of thread now surely!

 

[baldgye]

@Famine You call that going past the white lines? How about this.

View attachment 708616
View attachment 708617
View attachment 708620

From this video;

Oh yeah, the video I posted on the first few pages that everyone ignored

 

[Stotty]

@Famine You call that going past the white lines? How about this.

 

[demeaning pie]

End of thread now surely!

Nope. Those racers are unethical, cheaters and immoral.

 

[Leggacy]

I didn't say anything about putting barriers or gravel traps anywhere. I certainly didn't say anything about doing so at real-life circuits, and even more didn't say anything about doing it at Spa. Most of all I didn't say anything about doing it to Eau Rouge...

... although you might be surprised to learn that Eau Rouge was reprofiled as recently as 2002. You'd be amazed at how different it looked right up until the early 1980s. Enjoy.

Bahaha. "He needed to get Siri out to find out where the track was."

I recall the exit to Porsche Curves at Le Mans is routinely lengthened too.

Sorry I thought I saw a pic of Spa used in one of your posts :\ I was just pointing out that modifying it could be dangerous and wrong.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

The track limits for GT Sport are set by the stewards and organising body of the series. That's Polyphony Digital. For 20 years and all of its titles, it has routinely defined track limits as out-of-bounds being grass or gravel, with a car considered beyond the limit if it places a third or fourth wheel beyond that. Tarmac, kerb and concrete is all considered within the track limits. On occasion it makes the limits tighter, at some corners, but this is pretty much where PD draws its line.

On occasion would not be really accurate within this game to describe the track out of bounds limits of placing a 3rd or 4th wheel being beyond the limit of a curbing into the grass or gravel.
oc·ca·sion·al
əˈkāZHənl/
adjective
adjective: occasional
occurring, appearing, or done infrequently and irregularly.

The infrequently or irregularly part is what may be questionable.

This game there are quite a few corners throughout the game where even putting a wheel on the grass will draw a penalty and many more that having 2 wheels still on the curb will also draw a penalty.

The without rhyme or reason of why one corner, one limit of distance going off the designated tarmac on the circuit of car widths is legally allowable while the next 3 corners could be totally different distances is where the problem lies.

That is my biggest gripe not really where they set the limits but the variance in what those limits are for every corner in the game and nothing visual to indicate where those limits actually deemed legal may be.

The drivers, the stewards and the organising body of the series decide where the track limits are in the driver briefing. What's good for one series and set of drivers might not be good for another, even at the same circuit.

The game does not provide briefings, track maps or any other method of defining the limits other than trial and error of cutting the corners and see if the penalty box pops up.

If PD wants variable limits then provide a map for each circuit that shoes what is allowed for each corner. Even the penalties assigned for cutting the same corner vary and could be anywhere from .6 of a second to 4.0 seconds guessing the game is calculating how much time you gained.

If the calculations for the time assigned for the penalty works as well as the rest of the penalty system we can really be guaranteed of equal treatment of all racers for the same penalty right?

No different than what GTS allows without penalty at the spoon curve on Suzuka.

 

[Brzlav]

I like "my" CSA for when I'm not serious and just want to put a lap in asap and have fun. Yeah, I'm lazy. On the other hand, I don't like TCS unless my tires are dying off.

Drive with whatever the game puts at your disposal. Fastest way will be without aids, but I don't mind when I'm driving with ABS only and others aren't. Sometimes I'll use TCS too, especially if I'm physically tired.

While GT Sport Calls it "Group 3", it is clearly emulating GT3 (same for the other "groups"). In my opinion, allowed aids should be what GT3 rules allow, therefore ABS and TCS yes, but no steering aid.
But if the game explicitly allows it, it is ok if you use it. I call it a good lap if I am 2 seconds of the leader, so I play for fun and not for the rankings anyway.

 

[Mr616]

Nope. Those racers are unethical, cheaters and immoral.

I'm off to nick candy from a child and rob a granny. I shouldn't be in this thread anyway. I'm supposed to be going cold turkey.

 

[Famine]

The infrequently or irregularly part is what may be questionable.

This game there are quite a few corners throughout the game where even putting a wheel on the grass will draw a penalty and many more that having 2 wheels still on the curb will also draw a penalty.

I'm not familiar with them. In fact I've been deliberately driving off the circuit in order to prevent my SR rising (for research purposes for this site), and even when literally four wheels into the grass on some areas of most tracks I've still had an SR up indication.

Four wheels off into the grass/gravel on the inside of just about every corner I can think of would be a penalty or SR hit. Two wheels off into the grass/gravel on the inside of just about every corner I can think of would not be a penalty or SR hit. I'm not aware of any corner where one wheel into grass/gravel is a penalty or SR hit, although I'm aware of a couple where there is no grass/gravel and taking four wheels past the kerb (Dragon Trail chicane entry, for example; also Interlagos pit entry/turn 15) is a penalty or SR hit.

The game does not provide briefings, track maps or any other method of defining the limits other than trial and error of cutting the corners and see if the penalty box pops up.

If you'd just carried on reading beyond the part you quoted:

But again, the FIA doesn't make the rules on this. The drivers, the stewards and the organising body of the series decide where the track limits are in the driver briefing. What's good for one series and set of drivers might not be good for another, even at the same circuit. The simplistic "white lines are the limits" isn't necessarily the be-all and end-all. In fact it rarely is - most events allow the kerbs to be treated as part of the racing surface, although commonly they're also the limit of the racing surface, and wheels should not be put beyond them. That doesn't necessarily apply to F1, as you can see from the images.

The track limits for GT Sport are set by the stewards and organising body of the series. That's Polyphony Digital. For 20 years and all of its titles, it has routinely defined track limits as out-of-bounds being grass or gravel, with a car considered beyond the limit if it places a third or fourth wheel beyond that. Tarmac, kerb and concrete is all considered within the track limits. On occasion it makes the limits tighter, at some corners, but this is pretty much where PD draws its line.

In normal racing, the drivers, stewards and officials all get together in a room and talk it over beforehand. We don't get the two-way dialogue because it's a game, so we live with the rules set out for us.

In general, and for the last 20 years, that's "don't put a third wheel into grass/gravel", but occasionally it's less forgiving than that.

 

[Spurgy 777]

Oh yeah, the video I posted on the first few pages that everyone ignored

I must of missed it, one of my friends mentioned the video to me earlier when I was showing them some of the hilarious posts in this thread.

I'm not familiar with them. In fact I've been deliberately driving off the circuit in order to prevent my SR rising (for research purposes for this site), and even when literally four wheels into the grass on some areas of most tracks I've still had an SR up indication.

Four wheels off into the grass/gravel on the inside of just about every corner I can think of would be a penalty or SR hit. Two wheels off into the grass/gravel on the inside of just about every corner I can think of would not be a penalty or SR hit. I'm not aware of any corner where one wheel into grass/gravel is a penalty or SR hit, although I'm aware of a couple where there is no grass/gravel and taking four wheels past the kerb (Dragon Trail chicane entry, for example; also Interlagos pit entry/turn 15) is a penalty or SR hit.

I'm not aware of any corners where you are penalised for driving any less that 2 wheels on track where kerb is track either. And as the video below proves I'm a dirty cheater who pushes the track limits as far as the game will allow.

 

[Mr P]

Where in that lap does the car go 10 foot off track? In fact I saw no off at all tbh! just the car clinging onto the edge of the rumbles finding the best lines.. unless under close scrutiny it does goes off marginally at one of the turns but that is still no comparison to the maggiore turn 4 discrepancy imo..

There's always 2 sides to every debate as it should be.. but it seems some of the guys who are in favor of the track limit exploit come across like a gang/lynch mob against the naysayers ready to pounce with some smart or idiotic comment

I tried the debate tactic in here for a few days now, but with all the constant ridiculing of peoples opinions and glorifying them with comparisons to the lowest scum walking the earth is not good taste.. A debate is exactly that! don't push it any further! I'm basically done with this subject now it started to stink bad 👎 See my avatar

 

[demeaning pie]

Where in that lap does the car go 10 foot off track? In fact I saw no off at all tbh! just the car clinging onto the edge of the rumbles finding the best lines.. unless under close scrutiny it does goes off marginally at one of the turns but that is still no comparison to the maggiore turn 4 discrepancy imo..

There's always 2 sides to every debate as it should be.. but it seems some of the guys who are in favor of the track limit exploit come across like a gang/lynch mob against the naysayers ready to pounce with some smart or idiotic comment

I tried the debate tactic in here for a few days now, but with all the constant ridiculing of peoples opinions and glorifying them with comparisons to the lowest scum walking the earth is not good taste.. A debate is exactly that! don't push it any further! I'm basically done with this subject now it started to stink bad 👎 See my avatar

Poor taste started when people classified others as immoral and cheaters. Yeah, it's all the "pro exploits" fault. HGAD

 

[zzz_pt]

Where in that lap does the car go 10 foot off track? In fact I saw no off at all tbh! just the car clinging onto the edge of the rumbles finding the best lines.. unless under close scrutiny it does goes off marginally at one of the turns but that is still no comparison to the maggiore turn 4 discrepancy imo..

There's always 2 sides to every debate as it should be.. but it seems some of the guys who are in favor of the track limit exploit come across like a gang/lynch mob against the naysayers ready to pounce with some smart or idiotic comment

I tried the debate tactic in here for a few days now, but with all the constant ridiculing of peoples opinions and glorifying them with comparisons to the lowest scum walking the earth is not good taste.. A debate is exactly that! don't push it any further! I'm basically done with this subject now it started to stink bad 👎 See my avatar

Where did people call you (and others with you opinion) cheater, exploiter, uneducated, dirty, unethical or immoral? Or compared you to wall riders, pit glitches and rammers?

Now, if you read through the thread you'll probably find someone calling me one or multiple of those things on every page.