Track Limit Abuse by most Top 10 Drivers

[Mr616]

Don't you want to see what else can be scraped from the bottom of the barrel to support opinion? I'm sure there's something left in there to push another 10 pages out of this thread.👍

Perhaps this thread could complete a holy trinity of things you don't discuss down the pub. Politics, religion and PD's track limits.

(I thought the AI twist to the story was hilarious until I realised they were being serious. Sadly, a non starter but an entertaining concept.)

This made me lol so hard. Brilliant.

Right, I must bow out of this thread, but it's so addict-able. Almost like a morbid curiosity. I'm going cold turkey. Bye

 

[Outspacer]

I do not want to get sucked back into this conversation as it seems futile to try to reasonably discuss any concept that varies at all with a lot of the people in this thread.

But what Skiddy is saying makes sense from a concept point about track limits, maybe even about PD'S intents on the limits. Hell maybe it is just the broken penalty system but because of the history of GT in the past that is ruled to be ludicrous to be even a possibility.

But what has been brought up is a reasonable point to be part of a discussion about track limits but rather than reasonably evaluate such concept the poster is crucified for bringing up a point that does not fit with the consensus that the current track limits is what PD wants and you are treated as being an inferior gamer if you cannot adapt.

I agree that PD could easily make the AI run any line they wanted the AI to run within and on whatever was on the screen of your tv. They could let the AI driving a GR4 car run the same speeds as if they were in a GR1 car and the only difference would be to how they wrote or entered the code.

AI could easily be coded to where not even the aliens could win a race if the devs chose this is what they wanted to do.

So bringing up a suggestion or even question as to why the lines the AI run within the game are different or possibly the limits the game intends to be the out of bounds limits than what the track limits that allow completely leaving the circuit is legal is not is not not a topic that is far fetched or does not deserve serious legitimate debate or discussion. But that does not happen here.

Everything from PD as far as instructional videos, AI behavior and track limits apparently imposed on that AI by the devs does indicate the limits that gamers are using although legal to use do not match anywhere near close to anything you see where PD is controlling the racing line or cars on screen.

Their are two sides to every discussion and viewpoints and opinions from individual to individual can vary greatly but just because someones has a different viewpoint does not mean they are wrong just because you say so or believe so.

The only documented racing lines SHOWN IN USE BY PD in any official capacity including the limits of game controlled cars actually support the tighter track limits as being correct in theory.

The lines available by users show no penalty so from being legal within the game are also correct.

So regardless of which side of the line in the sand you find yourself on you are not wrong and have something within the game that backs your position to an extent.

Sure, nothing is 100% certain about whether the limits are exactly as intended. But when arguing from the far less likely end of the spectrum, it's not fitting to be so adamant about it. Suggesting that perhaps the track limits aren't as intended isn't ludicrous, but declaring the AI to be a useful reference and claiming anyone who doesn't agree "fails to see" that the track limits were meant to be elsewhere... is.

Make no mistake, the limits that exist in game were put there by someone. They are pretty consistent. There is a point, even on, say, the hairpin at Maggiore where cutting it too much will give a penalty. So they exist and work. This is exactly the kind of thing that gets decided in dev meetings before being implemented - there's no sign of different tracks having different track limit design rules in general, just the odd tweak here and there. Counter any of that with examples and then maybe there's a useful discussion to be had, but until then this thread has more to do with where different people would like the track limits to be rather than how they were actually meant to be.

 

[FPV MIC]

Don't you want to see what else can be scraped from the bottom of the barrel to support opinion? I'm sure there's something left in there to push another 10 pages out of this thread.👍

Perhaps this thread could complete a holy trinity of things you don't discuss down the pub. Politics, religion and PD's track limits.

(I thought the AI twist to the story was hilarious until I realised they were being serious. Sadly, a non starter but an entertaining concept.)

Case closed

 

[NommyNom]

Did you play GT5/6 when they did the GT Academy races? They placed cones at all the corners where they wanted your car to stay, "boundaries" if you will, and if you hit one, your lap disqualified. Those cones were often placed well beyond the curbs, allowing people to cut to a certain amount. I highly doubt they changed what they deem the limits of the track so whatever is being allowed now, just let it go.

And you on the other hand work for PD, I assume.

you're fighting a losing battle and are just trying to save face at this point. Do you have a problem with your opinion being questioned? just let it go, no one cares that much. Hell, if it makes you feel better, yes you're right. There, happy? Now the rest of us can move on and continue racing within the present limits which are much faster and wider than your slow, narrow ones.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

Presumably as much sense as saying that PD's fairly consistent two decade design philosophy for track boundary design is invalidated as a basis to form a hypothesis for intent because they made some narrated videos

Oh yes oh wise one!

I should leave the dark side and walk towards the light!

Then all will be well in the universe and none of the sheep will have then departed from the flock of those that think they know all .

I beg your forgiveness for my transgressions and having the actual gall to have my own opinions oh mighty one.

 

[kilesa4568]

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View attachment 708414

Case closed

I like it.

Perhaps they've chosen not to go with track limit cones with how dangerous they are in GTS. They feel like a moose when you hit them.

 

[zzz_pt]

View attachment 708413
View attachment 708414

Case closed

Now that I see this I think I never saw where the cones are placed in this track. Maybe for the first few days but I can't remember. Another "aid", like the "line" on the track, that helps you to an extent but doesn't give you the better / perfect information in order to go fast. Just to go "tidy" as someone put it.

 

[Scaff]

Did you even see the AI race on Maggiore? Try the campaign, FR event in the Amateur events I think. Drive something underpowered so you can spend some time around the AI. Then tell me what you think about that very center of the track idea.

'Could'

That's the word you either misunderstood or ignored in my post.

Not that you have still provided anything of substance to support your claim.

 

[FPV MIC]

Now that I see this I think I never saw where the cones are placed in this track. Maybe for the first few days but I can't remember. Another "aid", like the "line" on the track, that helps you to an extent but doesn't give you the better / perfect information in order to go fast. Just to go "tidy" as someone put it.

Yeah I have no idea where they are in reality as well for the same reason, I turned them off very early because as @kilesa4568 said 'They feel like a moose when you hit them.'

 

[Tornado]

Oh yes oh wise one!

I should leave the dark side and walk towards the light!

Then all will be well in the universe and none of the sheep will have then departed from the flock of those that think they know all .

I beg your forgiveness for my transgressions and having the actual gall to have my own opinions oh mighty one.

As long as you realize your mistake that is good enough for me.

 

[Jumbone1]

I think PD should get the FIA to approve the track limits, as GTS is carries the FIA badge.

Maybe a more productive use of this thread would be to contact or petition the FIA about the over generous track limits in the game. This is probably the only way PD will take note for the better. I will email them.

 

[dylan86_exe]

This thread is awful.
The only thing anybody can take away from this thread is: if you can't beat them, join them.

This entire thread has been illuminating. I mean you have people saying track limits are exactly that. Limits. So use them! And they start quoting engineers from real life Motorsport claiming to be experts on the subject - most likely never even been on a real track in their lives.

But then on the other hand when somebody abuses another poorly designed aspect of the game That they don't agree with, they start moaning about it...It's amusing.

 

[Famine]

I think PD should get the FIA to approve the track limits, as GTS is carries the FIA badge.

The FIA doesn't approve track limits. It defines them, "for the avoidance of doubt", as the area between the white lines, excluding kerbs. That's not the bottom line though, as the circuit stewards, race/series organising body and drivers decide the track limits for any given race at any given circuit. It may not be the same as that baseline definition in some places, although it might be in others.

Still, here's some of the FIA's very best sticking to the track limits they've approved:

 

[cleanLX]

wow... this continues...
Hello?
Race the game
Race your morals

Make a decision and end this.

 

[GTFraker]

The FIA doesn't approve track limits. It defines them, "for the avoidance of doubt", as the area between the white lines, excluding kerbs. That's not the bottom line though, as the circuit stewards, race/series organising body and drivers decide the track limits for any given race at any given circuit. It may not be the same as that baseline definition in some places, although it might be in others.

Still, here's some of the FIA's very best sticking to the track limits they've approved:

​

The stewards have been pressured by the FIA to warn drivers who constantly ignore track limits, the past couple of years it has been a significant part of the dominant discourse.

 

[Leggacy]

I after watching the vid i would also call cheat! The track ends at the white line, if you don’t have at least one wheel on the track you’re out of bounds. I hope PD rectify this.

 

[Famine]

I after watching the vid i would also call cheat! The track ends at the white line, if you don’t have at least one wheel on the track you’re out of bounds. I hope PD rectify this.

Welcome to page 1 of this thread. I'm afraid that the bolded part of your post is patently incorrect, in the game and in the real world of motorsports.

The stewards have been pressured by the FIA to warn drivers who constantly ignore track limits, the past couple of years it has been a significant part of the dominant discourse.

And yet one of those images is from the season we've just had. If you watched the 2017 race at COTA, you're probably aware that one corner was habitually taken well inside the white lines - and only one driver was punished for this, seemingly because he overtook another car while doing so.


But again, the FIA doesn't make the rules on this. The drivers, the stewards and the organising body of the series decide where the track limits are in the driver briefing. What's good for one series and set of drivers might not be good for another, even at the same circuit. The simplistic "white lines are the limits" isn't necessarily the be-all and end-all. In fact it rarely is - most events allow the kerbs to be treated as part of the racing surface, although commonly they're also the limit of the racing surface, and wheels should not be put beyond them. That doesn't necessarily apply to F1, as you can see from the images.

The track limits for GT Sport are set by the stewards and organising body of the series. That's Polyphony Digital. For 20 years and all of its titles, it has routinely defined track limits as out-of-bounds being grass or gravel, with a car considered beyond the limit if it places a third or fourth wheel beyond that. Tarmac, kerb and concrete is all considered within the track limits. On occasion it makes the limits tighter, at some corners, but this is pretty much where PD draws its line.

 

[uMayBeSeated]

I'm sorry, but you don't know what you're talking about.
You're trying to compare a foot here and a foot there to a guy cutting ten feet in GTS? Bwaaahahaha. But, whatever makes you feel like you are doing right. Such excuses. Here's a vid of some good cheating. But hey, according to you this guy in the Viper should be commended for his awesomeness!
If only others could learn to race like him! Whoo hoo. Enjoy each other!

How do you upload a replay from GT Sport to here?

 

[Scaff]

How do you upload a replay from GT Sport to here?

Shareplay or a capture card, to YouTube, to GT Planet.

 

[Walkinshaw]

...
The track limits for GT Sport are set by the stewards and organising body of the series. That's Polyphony Digital. For 20 years and all of its titles, it has routinely defined track limits as out-of-bounds being grass or gravel, with a car considered beyond the limit if it places a third or fourth wheel beyond that. Tarmac, kerb and concrete is all considered within the track limits. On occasion it makes the limits tighter, at some corners, but this is pretty much where PD draws its line.

But surely the community(drivers) get input as well, considering this thread went 20 pages (lol) it's obviously an emotive issue. Slightly disappointing that those who have objected were kinda shouted down or laughed at for raising their objections (granted some didn't word their reasoning all that clearly), the GTPlanet community should be above that imo. It has always been an inclusive and respected community for as long I remember.

GTSport is a breakaway fresh start from the "traditional" GT games that came before it, so PD have a great opportunity to fix known concerns. They listened when everyone said they wanted the single player cups back etc. So maybe if the community want adjustments made re cornering limits then they may listen and take action also.

 

[shaunus]

But surely the community(drivers) get input as well, considering this thread went 20 pages (lol) it's obviously an emotive issue. Slightly disappointing that those who have objected were kinda shouted down or laughed at for raising their objections (granted some didn't word their reasoning all that clearly), the GTPlanet community should be above that imo. It has always been an inclusive and respected community for as long I remember.

GTSport is a breakaway fresh start from the "traditional" GT games that came before it, so PD have a great opportunity to fix known concerns. They listened when everyone said they wanted the single player cups back etc. So maybe if the community want adjustments made re cornering limits then they may listen and take action also.

Honestly I do not think anyone would be harsh in response to a post saying that someone thought the track limits were too generous.. if that was where it went it could have been a civil discussion. Calling, by name, a member a cheat/dirty driver/bad player is always going to be flame-bait and always going to attract the flames it asks for.

For the record I think the track limits ARE too generous, but they are what they are, PD set the rules not me. If there was a useful feedback mechanism I would sign the petition for tighter limits in a second, but I will not criticise people who play to what I consider the intended rules.

 

[Jumbone1]

The FIA doesn't approve track limits. It defines them, "for the avoidance of doubt", as the area between the white lines, excluding kerbs. That's not the bottom line though, as the circuit stewards, race/series organising body and drivers decide the track limits for any given race at any given circuit. It may not be the same as that baseline definition in some places, although it might be in others.

Still, here's some of the FIA's very best sticking to the track limits they've approved:

​

Two wheels on the 1st strip of kerbing in those pictures is very different to all four wheels beyond it which is what is possible and more in GTS. I have contacted the FIA just to make them aware of the issue.

 

[rikcougar]

Two wheels on the 1st strip of kerbing in those pictures is very different to all four wheels beyond it which is what is possible and more in GTS. I have contacted the FIA just to make them aware of the issue.

Really? Don`t imagine it will feature very high on their list of priorities!

 

[Brzlav]

I haven't read the entire thread, so I apologise if I am just repeating someone.
One of my biggest problems with the game's physics is that you seem to be able to cut corners no matter how the curbs are designed. It is possible to cut most corners on the Nordschleife when in reality touching the same curb would result in a crash. Maybe we had less discussions about this if the game weren't as forgiving.
For the Lago Maggiore track, the bumps inside to curbs neither upset nor slow your car, hence you can use the track limits to the extreme. Which is ok in my opinion, I blame the game for this.

Sebastian Vettel was asked in an interview post race how F1 should enforce track limits...
His answer was brilliant...
Design tracks so that exceeding track limits does not allow a benefit...

My first racing game was Microprose Grand Prix (released for Amiga and PC, you needed a 2/86 :-)). You were racing the F1 season 1991 and on most tracks, it was impossible to use the inside curbs. They were simply too high. No discussions about track limits. Watch some footage of F1 from that era.
One of the reasons for the tarmac run-out zones vs gravel was to keep more cars in the race as cars tended to get stuck in the gravel. At that point it should have been made clear by the FIA or other governing bodies that the white lines remain the enforced track limits in my opinion.

Side question: Why are so many people ok with "the pass"? Never understood that one. Yes, he did overtake on the track and left the track after the overtaking maneuver but he wouldn't have been able to complete the maneuver without illegally leaving the track.

 

[cleanLX]

Side question: Why are so many people ok with "the pass"? Never understood that one. Yes, he did overtake on the track and left the track after the overtaking maneuver but he wouldn't have been able to complete the maneuver without illegally leaving the track.

"Pass in the grass"... I was watching that live ... could not believe it... had it been Herta on Zanardi, I bet there would have been a different view from the media... the media placed a "golden boy" aura on Zanardi if you recall.
No surprise, Cart changed the rule book the next season regarding track limits.

 

[GT_Alex74]

Track limits are quite a subjective thing. In the end, it comes to the organizing body to define what's right or wrong. GTS may have its lot of bugs, but surely programming track limit detection is not that hard. This is not a bug, this is design : if after 3 months of people doing this, nothing has been changed, then it means that's what the devs intended and you have to work with that. Remind that for GT Academy online qualifiers, they put cones on critical parts of the track to prevent corners being cut that much so they can shrink those limits all they want, but chose not to.

Now if you're hosting your own championships, you're free to vouch for other limits and enforce them manually. Usually, what I do for my events is put a general baseline (white lines + curbs are part of the track, 2 wheels on track at all times) and show pictures for all special cases there might be along the track, something like this (pit entry limits on Brands Hatch here) :

 

[GTFraker]

Side question: Why are so many people ok with "the pass"? Never understood that one. Yes, he did overtake on the track and left the track after the overtaking maneuver but he wouldn't have been able to complete the maneuver without illegally leaving the track.

"The Pass" is a lie, manufactured.

 

[JacksHerer]

That 'pass' is a failed pass, I don't know the history of what happened, but he should have given the position back.

 

[Robben]

He blatantly cut the corner!

 

[Brzlav]

That 'pass' is a failed pass, I don't know the history of what happened, but he should have given the position back.

It was the last lap and he won. No penalty.