Track Limit Abuse by most Top 10 Drivers

[Spurgy 777]

Where in that lap does the car go 10 foot off track? In fact I saw no off at all tbh! just the car clinging onto the edge of the rumbles finding the best lines.. unless under close scrutiny it does goes off marginally at one of the turns but that is still no comparison to the maggiore turn 4 discrepancy imo..

I never said it was as bad as Maggiore, but I went past the white lines on the inside of the corners at least 7 times which according to a number of people who have posted in this thread is cheating and exploiting the game because it doesn't penalise you.

There's always 2 sides to every debate as it should be.. but it seems some of the guys who are in favor of the track limit exploit come across like a gang/lynch mob against the naysayers ready to pounce with some smart or idiotic comment

I tried the debate tactic in here for a few days now, but with all the constant ridiculing of peoples opinions and glorifying them with comparisons to the lowest scum walking the earth is not good taste.. A debate is exactly that! don't push it any further! I'm basically done with this subject now it started to stink bad 👎 See my avatar

No one here has said that the PD track limits are fine as they are, in fact it hasn't even been a debate in this thread really. The main argument has been between those who say that the track limits should be changed but that it's perfectly fine to drive to the track limits the game sets until they are and those who say the track limits should be changed and try to argue that it is in some way cheating if people drive to how they are now, saying that the same doesn't happen in real life and calling those who do the list of things @zzz_pt mentioned. The latter are the ones who have been "ganged up on" so to speak because they are blatantly and hilariously wrong as has been proven on multiple occasions.

 

[Outspacer]

Many, including me, that are defending the lines as being what PD meant us to use have said they wouldn't mind if they were stricter, especially w.r.t. T4 at Maggiore. But that hasn't helped to calm anyone down.

 

[baldgye]

Many, including me, that are defending the lines as being what PD meant us to use have said they wouldn't mind if they were stricter, especially w.r.t. T4 at Maggiore. But that hasn't helped to calm anyone down.

I’d also like Dragon Trail’s final chicane totally reprofiled

 

[kilesa4568]

Where in that lap does the car go 10 foot off track? In fact I saw no off at all tbh! just the car clinging onto the edge of the rumbles finding the best lines.. unless under close scrutiny it does goes off marginally at one of the turns but that is still no comparison to the maggiore turn 4 discrepancy imo..

There's always 2 sides to every debate as it should be.. but it seems some of the guys who are in favor of the track limit exploit come across like a gang/lynch mob against the naysayers ready to pounce with some smart or idiotic comment

I tried the debate tactic in here for a few days now, but with all the constant ridiculing of peoples opinions and glorifying them with comparisons to the lowest scum walking the earth is not good taste.. A debate is exactly that! don't push it any further! I'm basically done with this subject now it started to stink bad 👎 See my avatar

The high horse brigade did battle with their nose bags and blinkers still on and ignored the fact that the cut is legit from page one of the twenty two.

I'm not in favour of the cut but quickly accepted it was totally legal.

Were you debating or were you stamping your foot about something you didn't agree with? The last couple of lines in your post makes me think the latter. Quite petulant really.

 

[BallPtPenTheif]

Isn't there a way to report a lap?

Not to get the player in trouble but simple to make PD aware.

 

[Nando deBem]

Isn't there a way to report a lap?

Not to get the player in trouble but simple to make PD aware.

They are aware! They put a bright orange cone there!

 

[STR1K3_4CE]

Why is there 20+ pages of discussion about this? 4 tires off of the "candy cane" and you will be penalized. Period.
Now, you might notice some turns (at Maggiore specifically, T4, T8, and the big bowl turn T11) there is white concrete beyond the candy cane curb which is clearly painted with red stripes. Red stripes are spray painted onto the white concrete to indicate that this concrete can be treated as an extension of the candy cane curb. As long as you don't go 4 tires off, you are within the track limits. Very simple.

 

[war_ops_84]

Nope. At that point in the conversation people were already leaping to the defense of the driver as if he'd been attacked when the OP had already clearly indicated his post wasn't about the driver it was about the game. The reason people are defending the driver is because they don't read the OP and don't know how to have a proper discussion. There's also no need to assume the driver did abuse the track, that's a strawman argument. He didn't. He stayed within the lines that the game allows. End of story. @zzz_pt is a straight up alien and he'd be at the top no matter what, but again, that's another strawman and completely irrelevant.

He was attacked. The OP said he "abused" the track limits. So people rightly defended the driver. It's really not that hard to understand.

Some people seem to believe that "track limits" really means "my personal opinion on what the track limits should be".

That is false.

The "track limits" are defined by the game, not your personal opinion of what they should be.

The driver was within the track limits as defined by the game, therefore he abused nothing.

This thread and the complaints found within it are just people venting their own frustration and jealously.

Just accept the fact that you will never come close to being as good as the top GTS drivers and move on with your day. Trust me, you will be much happier as a result.

 

[Johnnypenso]

He was attacked. The OP said he "abused" the track limits. So people rightly defended the driver. It's really not that hard to understand.

What's also not hard to understand is that the OP clearly stated that it wasn't about the driver it was about the game. The driver responded and the OP...again clarified that it wasn't about the driver it was about the game...at which point it devolved into mostly an attack/defense thread...which is because...people didn't read the OP, or maybe didn't understand the OP or read it, understood it and deliberately ignored it.

Some people seem to believe that "track limits" really means "my personal opinion on what the track limits should be".

True, but it's also true that we can have a discussion about what the track limits should be and that was the entire point of the OP.

The "track limits" are defined by the game, not your personal opinion of what they should be.

Obviously, but we can still have a discussion about track limits which was the point of the OP.

The driver was within the track limits as defined by the game, therefore he abused nothing.

Yes, and I said so many times.

This thread and the complaints found within it are just people venting their own frustration and jealously.

You have no idea what anyone's motivations are so I'd suggest not going down that road and just addressing the comments themselves.

Just accept the fact that you will never come close to being as good as the top GTS drivers and move on with your day. Trust me, you will be much happier as a result.

Not sure what this has to do with me but whatever.

 

[DGXR]

Yes for sure the game is the problem, no argument there. The track boundaries need to be more strictly defined, and penalized. For example, why would the game penalize going wide off-track where time is lost, but not penalize a cut inside off-track where time is gained? It's nonsense.

Besides, nobody can call those inside sections "pavement." It is beyond the pavement and beyond the curbing. It is off-track. But again, the game is definitely at fault for not penalizing such greedy lines.

Also: "I do it because I can get away with it. Don't blame me because other people choose not to do it."
Isn't this the same rationalization given by just about every burglar, thief, hacker, etc? "I did it because I can." LOL nice job. So many people are missing the whole reason why this game is called SPORT. If winning at any cost is your thing, then go for it... cue the end of sportsmanship

 

[war_ops_84]

What's also not hard to understand is that the OP clearly stated that it wasn't about the driver it was about the game. The driver responded and the OP...again clarified that it wasn't about the driver it was about the game...at which point it devolved into mostly an attack/defense thread...which is because...people didn't read the OP, or maybe didn't understand the OP or read it, understood it and deliberately ignored it.
True, but it's also true that we can have a discussion about what the track limits should be and that was the entire point of the OP.
Obviously, but we can still have a discussion about track limits which was the point of the OP.
Yes, and I said so many times.
You have no idea what anyone's motivations are so I'd suggest not going down that road and just addressing the comments themselves.
Not sure what this has to do with me but whatever.

For some reason, a MOD merged two separate posts into one, so most of what you're responding to wasn't directed at you personally.

The only part of that post I directed at you was the following: He was attacked. The OP said he "abused" the track limits. So people rightly defended the driver. It's really not that hard to understand.

The rest of the post was a separate post until a MOD merged them together.

Just a note to the MOD who did that, I separated those posts for a reason. One post was directed at a specific poster and the other was directed at a general audience. I would appreciate it if in future you didn't micromanage how I communicate.

Anyway, what you seem to be missing Johnny is that the OP's title is an attack on the driver. I realize he clarified himself later on, but that does not change the attack contained in the thread title. Moreover, there are other people who have been calling the driver a cheater and calling his integrity into question throughout the thread. So people are defending the driver from them as well. Again, I don't see what's so hard to understand about that.

 

[regnar]

The problem with the thread, it was supposed to be a static discussion of track limits that the OP intended, whoever was driving the car was irrelevant to the discussion, the problem the OP unfortunately created was to have player “X” identity known, thus creating a victim, in which your either attacking or defending the victim when discussing the issue.

 

[Outspacer]

...at which point it devolved into mostly an attack/defense thread...which is because...people didn't read the OP, or maybe didn't understand the OP or read it, understood it and deliberately ignored it.

No mate. The tone was set by the OP in naming the thread, even if he was unaware of how it would turn out. It doesn't matter much to posters like 9 and 11 (and 640) that there was some backtracking later in the OP - their pitchforks were already drawn before they opened the thread.

TBH, there's zero chance of this thread turning in a good direction, to actually discuss what 'the community' would agree are reasonable track limits. (Instead, the list of insulting words used has just grown longer by a few).

 

[VFOURMAX1]

Some people seem to believe that "track limits" really means "my personal opinion on what the track limits should be".

That is false.

The "track limits" are defined by the game, not your personal opinion of what they should be.

The driver was within the track limits as defined by the game, therefore he abused nothing.

This thread and the complaints found within it are just people venting their own frustration and jealously.

Just accept the fact that you will never come close to being as good as the top GTS drivers and move on with your day. Trust me, you will be much happier as a result.

Have you actually thoroughly read all 22 pages and 643 post in this thread?

There has been much more discussion and points raised about other issues as well as track limits and whether their current placement is legal or not. There have also been posters that do not like the current variances throughout the game but have never once said that the lap turned by zzz was anything but legal because that is how the game defined the limits and the lap was within those limits defined by the game.

I have no problem with people defending their position and saying it is in the game and legal, they are right.

But those same people can be very hypocritical as other issues that fall into the same reasoning and exact same situation are called wrong and the people that use those limits are exploiters and cheaters.

How are they behaving any different than those that disagreed with the lap shown being not accepting that the players being called cheaters are playing by the rules the game allows.

Are those just posters "venting their own frustration and jealousy as well?

Same with the other issue which most will know is the wall riding,
The driver was within the limits defined by the game are actually your words not mine.

That does not mean that a discussion about whether such allowable limits about any issues that should not be tightened up or not is a subject that viewpoints may be entirely different. , That is not venting frustration and jealousy.

That is having a different viewpoint or opinion about how far off the tarmac the legal in bound limits should be within the game.

At the end of the day what any of us think does not matter about any of the issues about limits we may discuss and disagree with each other on, whatever PD does or does not do will be the deciding factor about track limits, wall riding, Bop limits or anything else that concerns the game.

We are just along for the ride.

And your attitude towards apparently everyone that has a differing opinion about the current placement of legal track limits is not to much above those that was attacking the original member who was the lap runner of the thread.

You seem to place ANYONE that has a viewpoint that differs from your own all within your defined category along.

You actually have no way of knowing for what reasons anyone may be expressing their opinion on the subject and stating what their reasons and intents are with absolutely zero knowledge otherwise is just showing your own arrogance.

 

[kilesa4568]

But those same people can be very hypocritical as other issues that fall into the same reasoning and exact same situation are called wrong and the people that use those limits are exploiters and cheaters.

I imagine the hypocrite comment was for me.

Is the wall riding bone still stuck in your craw or maybe that I used the pit lane glitch to get cars? Still?

As I said in that thread, wall riding isn't legal as you get penalties for it but the nature of the track means the penalties can be rolled off without impacting pace, making them pointless and actually beneficial. If you're going to defend wall riding again, based on anyone can do it, I'll let you reread the other thread for replies. My horse died under flogging in that one but the best of luck to you if you try.

The pit lane glitch: Done in arcade mode and it didn't have any impact on anyone else's progress.

One small detail I forgot to mention was that I was struggling to play the game (less than 10 minutes) at the time as I had ligament damage to my hand. New console + new game / no way of doing a race = frustrated. Oh look. A glitch... I'm weak, OK? Not much of an excuse but I didn't realise I would need one.

GT6's glitch was a lot easier to do but I didn't have a problem with my hand then so never did it. I guess that makes me an hypocritical hypocrite?

This thread was based on opinion. The wall riding thread wasn't.

I wouldn't merge them.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

I imagine the hypocrite comment was for me.

Is the wall riding bone still stuck in your craw or maybe that I used the pit lane glitch to get cars? Still?

As I said in that thread, wall riding isn't legal as you get penalties for it but the nature of the track means the penalties can be rolled off without impacting pace, making them pointless and actually beneficial. If you're going to defend wall riding again, based on anyone can do it, I'll let you reread the other thread for replies. My horse died under flogging in that one but the best of luck to you if you try.

The pit lane glitch: Done in arcade mode and it didn't have any impact on anyone else's progress.

One small detail I forgot to mention was that I was struggling to play the game (less than 10 minutes) at the time as I had ligament damage to my hand. New console + new game / no way of doing a race = frustrated. Oh look. A glitch... I'm weak, OK? Not much of an excuse but I didn't realise I would need one.

GT6's glitch was a lot easier to do but I didn't have a problem with my hand then so never did it. I guess that makes me an hypocritical hypocrite?

This thread was based on opinion. The wall riding thread wasn't.

I wouldn't merge them.

Actually it really was not aimed at any individual at all.

There have been a lot of people that have taken the same position on the wall riding issue.

I have very plainly stated I do not race that track and I have no personal stake at all concerning the wall riding.

I just hate to see people defend some actions as legal because the game allows it and those people that use those limits are fine upstanding gamer's and out of the other side of their mouth call other players that uses another variance that is questionable exploiters and cheaters.

Both actions at the current time are within the rules currently allowed by PD and available to use or exploit depending on whether you agree with the actions or not apparently and is available to all players within the game.

If that is not being a hypocrite as forcing an opinion on one action as being legal because the game allows it and another that falls under that same the game allows it moniker but its users are cheaters I do not know how much plainer it can really be.

I have repeatedly stated I do not agree with either issue as they currently are allowed but I accept that as the game deems the action legal whether I agree or like them at all that their uses are legal to currently use within the game.
If being legal by the game deems something to be acceptable it is the same for all issues the game deems legal and allows.

But my post was not aimed at any one individual period or any one situation but the whole it is legal because the game allows it argument.

 

[MidFieldMaven]

I hate corner-cutters. In my personal time trials, if so much as one tire touches dirt, I restart the whole lap.

 

[TheGeologist]

@zzz_pt didn't do anything anyone else can't do. Honestly I applaud them for handling this thread so well

Didn't they already show they can be just as fast without that corner cut?

I can't believe how big a deal everyone has made this lmao

 

[Imari]

There's always 2 sides to every debate as it should be.. but it seems some of the guys who are in favor of the track limit exploit come across like a gang/lynch mob against the naysayers ready to pounce with some smart or idiotic comment

Still labelling it an exploit I see, instead of recognising valid use of game mechanics that you happen to disagree with the design of. And you wonder why people reply aggressively when you slap pejoratives on them...

 

[dylan86_exe]

Still labelling it an exploit I see, instead of recognising valid use of game mechanics that you happen to disagree with the design of. And you wonder why people reply aggressively when you slap pejoratives on them...

Because it's just your own personal opinion. Not everyone agrees with it. It's been stressed multiple times in this thread.

 

[Imari]

Because it's just your own personal opinion. Not everyone agrees with it. It's been stressed multiple times in this thread.

The rules of the game are the rules of the game. As such, no, it's not my opinion. It's supported by objective evidence within the game itself. The game defines track limits in a certain way. Driving within the track limits as defined by the game is not an exploit, and you are unable to bend the English language enough to make it so.

Your opinion, on the other hand, seems to be based entirely upon what colour textures the polygons were made with. It's an interesting approach, but you're yet to provide any evidence that it's what the designers intended instead of the already available penalty system which is in the game specifically to moderate this type of behaviour.

Do you think that there were two factions within Polyphony that disagreed about track limits? One made the penalty system, the other drew the track outlines and hoped that players would be conscientious enough to follow them instead of competing fiercely like in real motorsport? Or are you simply placing your own interpretation onto the game despite copious evidence that the designers think differently of their own game?

I saw an interesting video about Monopoly not long ago. TL;DR, basically everyone plays it wrong with house rules that ultimately make the game substantially more aggravating and likely to cause conflict. Nobody bothers to stick with the rules of the game, everyone has their own rules that are "better" because they know better than the designers.



You play how you want, but don't claim that your made up rules take precedence over the rules of the people that worked to make the game. They pick the mechanics, and they pick what's valid use. Not you. At best you have "house rules". The definitive way to play the game will always be as the developers designed it.

 

[dylan86_exe]

The rules of the game are the rules of the game. As such, no, it's not my opinion. It's supported by objective evidence within the game itself. The game defines track limits in a certain way. Driving within the track limits as defined by the game is not an exploit, and you are unable to bend the English language enough to make it so.

Your opinion, on the other hand, seems to be based entirely upon what colour textures the polygons were made with. It's an interesting approach, but you're yet to provide any evidence that it's what the designers intended instead of the already available penalty system which is in the game specifically to moderate this type of behaviour.

Do you think that there were two factions within Polyphony that disagreed about track limits? One made the penalty system, the other drew the track outlines and hoped that players would be conscientious enough to follow them instead of competing fiercely like in real motorsport? Or are you simply placing your own interpretation onto the game despite copious evidence that the designers think differently of their own game?

I saw an interesting video about Monopoly not long ago. TL;DR, basically everyone plays it wrong with house rules that ultimately make the game substantially more aggravating and likely to cause conflict. Nobody bothers to stick with the rules of the game, everyone has their own rules that are "better" because they know better than the designers.



You play how you want, but don't claim that your made up rules take precedence over the rules of the people that worked to make the game. They pick the mechanics, and they pick what's valid use. Not you. At best you have "house rules". The definitive way to play the game will always be as the developers designed it.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. You're speculating that this is an intended part of the game with absolutely no evidence to back up your claims. You don't know that this wont be patched in future versions. Yes it was obviously created by a dev with an intended rule behind it. But so was every other shortcoming in this game. That doesn't mean it was meant to be abused.
There's still a ton of broken elements in this game that I could get away with and they're (by your logic) technically legal - but from a community stand point, are not.
That's not how it works. It's either legal (where the game allows it without penalty - or it's doesn't) And if that's how we're basing acceptable driving standards, then according to this thread, I have every right to exploit every other known "limitation".
And I use the word "limitation" because the word bug/exploit seems to only be used by people when they don't agree with it.

 

[Robben]

Don't hate the player, hate the game

 

[Scaff]

You're speculating that this is an intended part of the game with absolutely no evidence to back up your claims.

You mean apart from the track limits being exactly the same in every GT title?

So that would actually be twenty years worth of evidence of a consistent approach to track limits by PD.

 

[Mr616]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. You're speculating that this is an intended part of the game with absolutely no evidence to back up your claims. You don't know that this wont be patched in future versions. Yes it was obviously created by a dev with an intended rule behind it. But so was every other shortcoming in this game. That doesn't mean it was meant to be abused.
There's still a ton of broken elements in this game that I could get away with and they're (by your logic) technically legal - but from a community stand point, are not.
That's not how it works. It's either legal (where the game allows it without penalty - or it's doesn't) And if that's how we're basing acceptable driving standards, then according to this thread, I have every right to exploit every other known "limitation".
And I use the word "limitation" because the word bug/exploit seems to only be used by people when they don't agree with it.

Did you ever drive on the yellow paint markings on Deep Forest (the one leading into the tunnel and the long looping left hander after the straight)? Did you ever drive over the concrete at Trial Mountain in sector 1? Did PD ever change that?

Now I believe there was a glitch/exploit at Le Mans 24hr in GT5 or 6 where you could flat out the last chicain and still post a valid time. THAT is a shortcut/exploit/cheat. That is ignoring a complete section/corner of the track. No I do not condone that as it is obviously not what PD intended.

The proof you are looking for is in previous GTs and the track limits within those games with the examples above, and the fact that this has a precedent in previous titles.

PS. If the thread was titled, "Do track limits need tightening/revising?", this thread may have gone a completely different way (with the same posters present).

 

[kilesa4568]

I just hate to see people defend some actions as legal because the game allows it and those people that use those limits are fine upstanding gamer's and out of the other side of their mouth call other players that uses another variance that is questionable exploiters and cheaters.

I do believe that's close to verbatim from what you said to me before but I'll take your word for it that it wasn't directed at me. The strong sense of déjà vu got me biting though.

I'm one of 'those people' who speaks out of the front of my mouth when he sees a wall rider sail past me into a corner at full speed, using no brakes and fully accepting the inconsequential penalty they'll get knowing it won't affect them. I've no qualms about calling them a cheat if they do it against me or anyone else.

Besides, "there goes another exploiter" doesn't have the same ring to it.

Both actions at the current time are within the rules currently allowed by PD and available to use or exploit depending on whether you agree with the actions or not apparently and is available to all players within the game.

How you're drawing a parallel to this cut thread is beyond me as they're nothing alike. One gets a penalty, the other doesn't.

Seriously, how low do you have to go to scrape your car round a wall to get a pass you otherwise wouldn't? That's way beyond rules. That's aimbot territory.

 

[Imari]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. You're speculating that this is an intended part of the game with absolutely no evidence to back up your claims.

Yes it was obviously created by a dev with an intended rule behind it.

Rofl. Get your story straight, mate. In one breath you say that I don't know that this was intended, and then in the next you say it was obviously created intentionally?

I'll take that as your complete and utter admission of defeat, that you can't make a reply without contradicting yourself within three sentences. Go back and have a little think about what you actually want to say, and get back to me if you can put together a cogent and reasoned argument as to why your arbitrary rules are a better representation of what the game is than the arbitrary rules that the developers made and put in the game.

Did you ever drive on the yellow paint markings on Deep Forest (the one leading into the tunnel and the long looping left hander after the straight)? Did you ever drive over the concrete at Trial Mountain in sector 1? Did PD ever change that?

It's interesting that some of the older PD fantasy tracks are actually designed in a way that you'd have to assume it was meant that you "cut" certain places.

 

[FUNanywhere]

Its not the rules of the game,its more like a glitch in the game just like the pit one.

Can't believe people are defending Turn 4.

 

[Scaff]

Its not the rules of the game,its more like a glitch in the game just like the pit one.

Can't believe people are defending Turn 4.

Then why has the manner in which corners can be taken in GT titles been consistent for 20 years?

 

[Outspacer]

Its not the rules of the game,its more like a glitch in the game just like the pit one.

Can't believe people are defending Turn 4.

Do you have any logical argument that T4 isn't as PD intended? That it is a bug?

The pit lane is clearly a bug - nobody would defend using it on the basis that PD meant them to be able to it, only that they can do it. Same goes for wall-riding.