Track Limit Abuse by most Top 10 Drivers

[zzz_pt]

Its not the rules of the game,its more like a glitch in the game just like the pit one.

Can't believe people are defending Turn 4.

Then why has the manner in which corners can be taken in GT titles been consistent for 20 years?

And why didn't they put grass on the inside of T4, T3, T8 and T11 but deliberately used a white surface instead. I mean, they did put grass on T1, T2, T9, T10, ,T12, T13.

One would think they wanted to extend the track limits in ones and not in the others.

 

[Robben]

The pit glitch is a miscalculation. The track limits will have been drawn intentionally. That is the difference.

 

[JacksHerer]

I'm surprised Lewis didn't 'use' the fastest line when he did his lap in front of Kaz.
Although I think I recall he cut the chicane on the first day, the next day he said 'where did that cone come from', I think Kaz put the cones on to make the chicane less straight.

This is a game, there are easter eggs and 'bugs/known exploits' in every game. Use them at your own choice.

 

[dylan86_exe]

You mean apart from the track limits being exactly the same in every GT title?

So that would actually be twenty years worth of evidence of a consistent approach to track limits by PD.

You're basing evidence off previous titles? Titles that are decades old? ...

 

[baldgye]

I'm surprised Lewis didn't 'use' the fastest line when he did his lap in front of Kaz.
Although I think I recall he cut the chicane on the first day, the next day he said 'where did that cone come from', I think Kaz put the cones on to make the chicane less straight.

This is a game, there are easter eggs and 'bugs/known exploits' in every game. Use them at your own choice.

Lewis is probably used to driving the track in an F1 car, so the lines and how he positions and moves will be different to a GT3 car, something Kaz mentioned in the video.
It's probably also worth pointing out that Lewis didn't set the fastest time of the Nurb GP track.

 

[Outspacer]

You're basing evidence off previous titles? Titles that are decades old? ...

Well, what evidence do you have that the limits aren't how PD intended them?

 

[Scaff]

You're basing evidence off previous titles? Titles that are decades old? ...

Name one GT title that's had a different approach to track limits.

 

[Mr P]

Name one GT title that's had a different approach to track limits.

GTHD .. 1 track 1 rule! stay on the track or get redded..

 

[dylan86_exe]

Rofl. Get your story straight, mate. In one breath you say that I don't know that this was intended, and then in the next you say it was obviously created intentionally?

I'll take that as your complete and utter admission of defeat, that you can't make a reply without contradicting yourself within three sentences. Go back and have a little think about what you actually want to say, and get back to me if you can put together a cogent and reasoned argument as to why your arbitrary rules are a better representation of what the game is than the arbitrary rules that the developers made and put in the game.



It's interesting that some of the older PD fantasy tracks are actually designed in a way that you'd have to assume it was meant that you "cut" certain places.

Jesus.
Whatever helps you cope I guess. I'll take the emotional response as an obvious indication that you can't cope with other people's differing opinions without having an aneurysm. I thought you could read between the lines to a degree, but obviously not.

Anyway, hypothetically, If you have a corner with an available working limit of 4m with an extra 2m added padding to allow for margin of error (penalty allowance), should people be allowed to abuse the extra 2m allowance even though it was never intended to be used in that way?

If yes, then you also have no issue with me bumping and running without penalty.I mean, is that allowed too? PD put that there..
If I can wall ride and shave off a second without penalty, is that also permissible? Who gets to decide?.. you?

 

[dylan86_exe]

Name one GT title that's had a different approach to track limits.

Not the point. At all...
Why should this title, or any other for that matter follow the same static rules as the title before. That's the whole point of evolution.

 

[JacksHerer]

I think it's fair to say that everyone in this thread is aware that you can drive to the penalty limits set by PD or drive to the track limits set by the track designer.

 

[Scaff]

Not the point. At all...
Why should this title, or any other for that matter follow the same static rules as the title before. That's the whole point of evolution.

You stated that no evidence existed that this was deliberate on the part of PD.

Every other GT title is evidence that this is how PD deliberately design track limits, as it been the same in ever GT produced, regardless of the track in question.

That they follow the same static rules is evidence of PDs intent and design approach to track limits.

 

[baldgye]

I think it's fair to say that everyone in this thread is aware that you can drive to the penalty limits set by PD or drive to the track limits set by the track designer.

Why have you assumed that they are different?

 

[JacksHerer]

Maybe the developers at PD have the same mind set as me, they always tried to drive within the designed track limits and put the penalty limits there to stop blatant grass cutting.

When they tried racing the track limits and had 2 or 3 cars trying to race through a section and found that the penalty system was ruining the fun of racing, they expanded the penalty limit. They didn't expand the track.

Edit : I've had a race ruined because of sticky walls at bathurst, PD had to make the walls sticky to stop people wall riding. I accept it, but I would rather have damage than sticky walls.

 

[Woodybobs]

Isn't this the same rationalization given by just about every burglar, thief, hacker, etc?

Not really. Your examples are all illegal. We just haven't come up with fool proof ways of catching everyone who commits these crimes. Burglars know they are committing a crime, but do it anyway. People who use all the track as defined by PD, believe they are playing within the rules.

 

[Robben]

Like with the oversized kerbstones through the chicane at Dragon Trail. They don't need to be there, but imagine the chaos that would be caused if you couldn't take them at a reasonable pace...

Also the chicane at Nurbugring GP. If you get that JUST right, you can have all 4 wheels off the tarmac

EDIT: this was in reply to JacksHerer

 

[baldgye]

Maybe the developers at PD have the same mind set as me, they always tried to drive within the designed track limits and put the penalty limits there to stop blatant grass cutting.

When they tried racing the track limits and had 2 or 3 cars trying to race through a section and found that the penalty system was ruining the fun of racing, they expanded the penalty limit. They didn't expand the track.

Why would it be fun to race off the track and not get a penalty?

 

[dylan86_exe]

You stated that no evidence existed that this was deliberate on the part of PD.

Every other GT title is evidence that this is how PD deliberately design track limits, as it been the same in ever GT produced, regardless of the track in question.

That they follow the same static rules is evidence of PDs intent and design approach to track limits.

Yeah good point. Fair enough.

But I'd also argue that every other GT title didn't have an online element to this degree like GTS does. The competitiveness with this title has taken things to the next level. It's possible that they weren't anticipating abuse of the smallest of details..

 

[baldgye]

Yeah good point. Fair enough.

But I'd also argue that every other GT title didn't have an online element to this degree like GTS does. The competitiveness with this title has taken things to the next level. It's possible that they weren't anticipating abuse of the smallest of details..

Other GT games had GT Academy, which I'd argue, was the most competitive thing in a sim racing game that I've ever heard of

 

[JacksHerer]

Why would it be fun to race off the track and not get a penalty?

You missed my point,
When they tried racing the track limits and had 2 or 3 cars trying to race through a section and found that the penalty system was ruining the fun of racing, they expanded the penalty limit. They didn't expand the track.

racing is the number 1 objective. If people got a penalty everytime they had more than two wheels off track, then the 'bashers' would exploit that and push people off the track at every opportunity. Fair drivers may not dare to overtake at the same time as avoiding contact.

Why ignore the bit about PD choosing to expand the penalty trigger instead of expanding the track? On fantasy tracks that shows intent.

 

[Scaff]

Yeah good point. Fair enough.

But I'd also argue that every other GT title didn't have an online element to this degree like GTS does. The competitiveness with this title has taken things to the next level. It's possible that they weren't anticipating abuse of the smallest of details..

Don't get me wrong I'm not commenting on if this is right or wrong in terms of good design from PD, simply that this is always what they have done in terms of track limits.

As such they are clearly OK with it, even if many are not.

As has been said you only have to go and look at old GT Academy threads from GT5 and GT6 days to see that not only were the same issues raised back then, but also that PD has never done anything about them.

 

[baldgye]

You missed my point, racing is the number 1 objective. If people got a penalty everytime they had more than two wheels off track, then the 'bashers' would exploit that and push people off the track at every opportunity. Fair drivers may not dare to overtake at the same time as avoiding contact.

Why ignore the bit about PD choosing to expand the penalty trigger instead of expanding the track? On fantasy tracks that shows intent.

Because, with this reasoning, there is no logical through line.
If that was the case, why isn't contact penalised in a harsher way? Why do some turns (first corners in some cases) have grass run-offs?
If they wanted to make them more forgiving for players to be pushed off, why do any of the tracks have grass on the inside/outside of corners?

I can't say why PD do the things they do, all I can do is look at what they are doing and what they have done. There is no reason to think that PD altered the track limits some specially lenient amount, just in case people crash... especially as they put work into making a Sportsmanship and Driver rating systems to match make people together.


Conversely, there is extensive evidence to suggest that the track limits in the video, are the designed limits of the track, as designed and dictated by the creators and adjudicators.

 

[Tornado]

Yeah good point. Fair enough.

But I'd also argue that every other GT title didn't have an online element to this degree like GTS does. The competitiveness with this title has taken things to the next level. It's possible that they weren't anticipating abuse of the smallest of details..

I don't have any experience with GT5: Prologue, but nothing I saw in the OP is particularly different from the things that people were doing in the first GT Academy Time Trial way back in 2009:




Take particular note of around 0:15 and 1:15 in both videos. Those two laps were (and the second one maybe still is?) the world records for that demo. And I daresay the public's first, free chance to play GT5 was a bigger deal than anything in GT Sport thus far. PD knows about this stuff.

You stated that no evidence existed that this was deliberate on the part of PD.

Every other GT title is evidence that this is how PD deliberately design track limits, as it been the same in ever GT produced, regardless of the track in question.

That they follow the same static rules is evidence of PDs intent and design approach to track limits.

But... narrated videos!

 

[JacksHerer]

I can accept some people will use the penalty system and any holes in it to drive to.. some people will use the designed track limit white lines that are clearly visible to drive to.

Arguing that PD intend us to drive to the penalty system and not the track design is just so wrong in my opinion that it is laughable.

 

[Scaff]

I can accept some people will use the penalty system and any holes in it to drive to.. some people will use the designed track limit white lines that are clearly visible to drive to.

Arguing that PD intend us to drive to the penalty system and not the track design is just so wrong in my opinion that it is laughable.

Then why was no GTA entry ever thrown out for doing just that?

 

[baldgye]

I can accept some people will use the penalty system and any holes in it to drive to.. some people will use the designed track limit white lines that are clearly visible to drive to.

Arguing that PD intend us to drive to the penalty system and not the track design is just so wrong in my opinion that it is laughable.

You drive to the limits of the rules and your ability.
This is how motor-racing and sim racing has always been. You can like it, laugh at it or hate it, it doesn't really matter.

 

[JacksHerer]

Then why was no GTA entry ever thrown out for doing just that?

The fastest drivers will be the fastest drivers, when they are all using the same lines it really doesn't matter.

If you want to succeed in motorsport nowadays, you need to exploit everything possible to the letter of the penalty system, and sometime even above - when the penalty is less than the gain.

@everyone
Trying to suggest PD and the fantasy track designers wanted us to drive to the penalty system instead of the track design ?? give your head a wobble?

 

[baldgye]

The fastest drivers will be the fastest drivers, when they are all using the same lines it really doesn't matter.

If you want to succeed in motorsport nowadays, you need to exploit everything possible to the letter of the penalty system, and sometime even above - when the penalty is less than the gain.

@everyone
Trying to suggest PD and the fantasy track designers wanted us to drive to the penalty system instead of the track design ?? give your head a wobble?

I don't really understand the idea of 'driving to the penalty system' you drive within the rules and the laws... I don't live my life to the penalty system, I just follow the laws... Also I don't understand 'give your head a wobble' ?

Edit;
Guess this needs asking again;

I think it's fair to say that everyone in this thread is aware that you can drive to the penalty limits set by PD or drive to the track limits set by the track designer.

Why have you assumed that they are different?

 

[SkylineR88]

you seem to be applying some real world logic to a video game.

 

[John Crellin]

I really don't get why this is so hard to swallow.

Wall riding is an exploit (within the rules but gets punished)
Pit glitch is a cheat (not within the rules and goes unpunished)
Driving on the absolute limit of the curbs is driving fast (within the rules and doesn't get punished)

For it to be a cheat it has the be against the rules. There is no argument to forcing self imposed track limits on the general populace, they won't follow it anyways. Everyone will take the track as it was designed and race it as fast as they can legally.