Transgender Thread.

[Johnnypenso]

Now I am even more confused. So is Imari a he or she?
I used he/she when I was corrected that Ialyrn is a Transgender after I assumed she was male. I somehow also thought she was a female to male transgender.

 

[CodeRedR51]

Why have I been quoted from a super old post?

 

[TexRex]

Why have I been quoted from a super old post?

Beats me...but I love, love, love Dale Hansen.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Why have I been quoted from a super old post?

Must have hit a key by accident. My mistake.

 

[PocketZeven]

Must have hit a key by accident. My mistake.

You have 1 1/2 year old posts mapped as a hotkey?

 

[Johnnypenso]

You have 1 1/2 year old posts mapped as a hotkey?

More than likely I had hit reply to it when it was first posted, intended to respond and never did. GTP doesn't forget. If you put it in the reply box it stays there until you clear it if you don't post again on that thread. I just never noticed it was there when I did my most recent response. Not a big mystery.

 

[novcze]

I'll probably join transphobic olympics with this, but since we have transgender people in the thread who are more informed about the matter, I would like to ask if there is some statistics about what percentage of transgender people are homosexuals.

Premise here is that transgender people are generally dissatisfied with wrong body parts, so someone with male body and female brain don't have a use for male specific parts, but if female brain is also homosexual, would they use their own male specific parts or would they use traditional things homosexual women use?

 

[Johnnypenso]

I'll probably join transphobic olympics with this, but since we have transgender people in the thread who are more informed about the matter, I would like to ask if there is some statistics about what percentage of transgender people are homosexuals.

Premise here is that transgender people are generally dissatisfied with wrong body parts, so someone with male body and female brain don't have a use for male specific parts, but if female brain is also homosexual, would they use their own male specific parts or would they use traditional things homosexual women use?

My head hurts. I think the right answer is though, whatever floats your boat.

 

[Lizard]

I'll probably join transphobic olympics with this, but since we have transgender people in the thread who are more informed about the matter, I would like to ask if there is some statistics about what percentage of transgender people are homosexuals.

Premise here is that transgender people are generally dissatisfied with wrong body parts, so someone with male body and female brain don't have a use for male specific parts, but if female brain is also homosexual, would they use their own male specific parts or would they use traditional things homosexual women use?

1 question.

Why are you so interested in how people have sex?

 

[Johnnypenso]

1 question.

Why are you so interested in how people have sex?

One would think it's a reasonable angle for discussion in a thread that revolves around sexual and gender identity. Is there an issue with asking questions in an attempt to reach some level of understanding?

 

[Lizard]

One would think it's a reasonable angle for discussion in a thread that revolves around sexual and gender identity. Is there an issue with asking questions in an attempt to reach some level of understanding?

True.

Fair enough.

 

[novcze]

Why are you so interested in how people have sex?

My point was different, it's more about how transgender people feel about using their body parts which are in contradiction with their gender indentity and if homosexuality plays some role in it.

 

[Valkyr1313]

I'll probably join transphobic olympics with this, but since we have transgender people in the thread who are more informed about the matter, I would like to ask if there is some statistics about what percentage of transgender people are homosexuals.

Premise here is that transgender people are generally dissatisfied with wrong body parts, so someone with male body and female brain don't have a use for male specific parts, but if female brain is also homosexual, would they use their own male specific parts or would they use traditional things homosexual women use?

Quick reply then I have to get back to work uwu

I don't use the stuff that I have on my body, as I'll feel queasy and sick even thinking about it and basically break down sobbing if it gets touched at all

I'll use traditionally sapphic items instead and my partners know not to touch there at all

Oh, also I'm now roughly 8 months from corrective surgery on it so whoop ^-^

 

[Johnnypenso]

Transgender woman Rachel McKinnon wins cycling world championship

Rachel McKinnon representing Canada won the world title in the master 35-39 women’s sprint at the 2018 UCI Masters Track Cycling World Championships in Los Angeles on Sunday. McKinnon was born a biological male and now identifies as a transgender female. McKinnon celebrated the victory on Twitter writing, “First transgender woman world champion…ever.”

 

[TexRex]

Congratulations to her; keep breaking those barriers.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Transgender woman Rachel McKinnon wins cycling world championship

Rachel McKinnon representing Canada won the world title in the master 35-39 women’s sprint at the 2018 UCI Masters Track Cycling World Championships in Los Angeles on Sunday. McKinnon was born a biological male and now identifies as a transgender female. McKinnon celebrated the victory on Twitter writing, “First transgender woman world champion…ever.”

Third place finisher Jen Wagner-Assali is speaking out:

 

[Whitestar]

It doesn't specifically say anywhere (that I've found) but my understanding is that she (McKinnon) did not undergo hormone therapy, as per IOC guidelines. Is that correct?

 

[mustafur]

Feelings above Science.

I have no problem calling them women, but when it comes to physical feats of strength and endurance we got to be logical here.

 

[baldgye]

Somewhat relevant
Reminds me of that South African (I think) athlete who was accused of being a man.

I wonder how far away we are from abandoning gender segregation (in sport) and instead just having brackets of testosterone levels (or something similar, I'm no expert or biologist). Maybe that'd be more fair for everyone, be they people who have changed and/or people who just have unnatural levels one way or the other?

 

[mustafur]

Somewhat relevant
Reminds me of that South African (I think) athlete who was accused of being a man.

I wonder how far away we are from abandoning gender segregation (in sport) and instead just having brackets of testosterone levels (or something similar, I'm no expert or biologist). Maybe that'd be more fair for everyone, be they people who have changed and/or people who just have unnatural levels one way or the other?

She was a Hermaphrodite, which made things really weird.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caster_Semenya

 

[baldgye]

She was a Hermaphrodite, which made things really weird, I think they lowered her testosterone levels to a point she was more level with the competition.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caster_Semenya

The sex test results were never published officially, but some results were leaked in the press and are widely discussed, resulting in claims about Semenya having an intersextrait.

2018 testosterone rule change
In April 2018, the IAAF announced new rules that required hyperandrogenous athletes to take medication to lower their testosterone levels, effective beginning in November 2018. Due to the narrow scope of the changes, which only apply to athletes competing in the 400m, 800m, and 1500m, many people thought the rule change was designed specifically to target Semenya

 

[Dotini]

Transgender woman Rachel McKinnon wins cycling world championship

I find it funnier than hell that what looks almost a man could steal a woman's medal and some women be happy it about and others not. In the war between the sexes, sew confusion, divide and conquer.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Somewhat relevant
Reminds me of that South African (I think) athlete who was accused of being a man.

I wonder how far away we are from abandoning gender segregation (in sport) and instead just having brackets of testosterone levels (or something similar, I'm no expert or biologist). Maybe that'd be more fair for everyone, be they people who have changed and/or people who just have unnatural levels one way or the other?

I'd say up until the last couple of years ago that men competing against biological men and women competing against biological women was considered fair by about 99.9% of the planet. Just an estimate though based on personal observation.

 

[Danoff]

Transgender woman Rachel McKinnon wins cycling world championship

Rachel McKinnon representing Canada won the world title in the master 35-39 women’s sprint at the 2018 UCI Masters Track Cycling World Championships in Los Angeles on Sunday. McKinnon was born a biological male and now identifies as a transgender female. McKinnon celebrated the victory on Twitter writing, “First transgender woman world champion…ever.”

I'm pretty sure that whatever gender stereotype you identify with has precisely zero bearing on how fast you are.

 

[Lizard]

The problem is, they can't keep up in the men's either. Oestrogen lowers muscle mass, so they are apparently too fast for women and too slow for men.

So do we just ban trans people from sport? Seems a little extreme and unfair.

 

[Danoff]

The problem is, they can't keep up in the men's either. Oestrogen lowers muscle mass, so they are apparently too fast for women and too slow for men.

So do we just ban trans people from sport? Seems a little extreme.

Are we still talking about Rachel McKinnon?

 

[PocketZeven]

I'd say up until the last couple of years ago that men competing against biological men and women competing against biological women was considered fair by about 99.9% of the planet. Just an estimate though based on personal observation.

I guess you mean physical activities?I dont see how competition involving other traits, should be devided between men and women. I think the physical advantage that men have in for example racing is negligeble and should not prevent women from entering racing.

The problem is, they can't keep up in the men's either. Oestrogen lowers muscle mass, so they are apparently too fast for women and too slow for men.

So do we just ban trans people from sport? Seems a little extreme and unfair.

Sports always needs to be fair. I however have not seen enough evidence to prove that a transgender person undergoing hormone treatment will perform on the same level as someone of the gender he/she is transitioning to. I very much doubt if a transgender man can compete at the same level as other male athletes.

The IOC is making a big mistake by not keeping a playing field fair and level in individual sports. As I understand according to the IOC female to male transgenders can compete even without sexrearrangment surgery and female to male have to compete with hormone therapy. I dont think science is settled enough to measure if a transgender male to female who undergo hormone therapy are 100% equal physically to other females.

To me personally I cant understand Rachel mcKinnon could accept that medal. A professional athlete knows how large the difference in performance is between women and men, then how can you accept such a prize without a sense of shame? And to be clear I am not saying she should be ashamed of being transgender, but accepting a prize in a sport where you are aware of having an unfair physical advantage over all the other athletes.

This is not about gender, but about competition with a fair playing field. Like some individual sports, they have weight-classes to level the playing field.

 

[Johnnypenso]

The problem is, they can't keep up in the men's either. Oestrogen lowers muscle mass, so they are apparently too fast for women and too slow for men.

So do we just ban trans people from sport? Seems a little extreme and unfair.

Would you say it was more or less unfair and extreme than forcing women to compete with other women who were biological men at birth?

I guess you mean physical activities?I dont see how competition involving other traits, should be devided between men and women. I think the physical advantage that men have in for example racing is negligeble and should not prevent women from entering racing.

Yes, I didn't specify but I was referring to contests of physical strength, endurance and skill. If men and women want to play backgammon or Monopoly together, I don't think either sex has an advantage. There's no issue with women entering men's events. Women are not as strong or as fast nor do they have the endurance of men and so they cannot compete on an equal basis against athletes at the same level in sports that require performance near human limits. That doesn't mean that a female Canadian world class hockey player, for example, can't compete with men in a third division men's league in Finland, but she won't be able to compete with world class hockey players in the NHL. Motor racing is not a test of extreme endurance or strength. Endurance and strength are required but at a level that is possible for women to obtain.

 

[Johnnypenso]

delete double

 

[Imari]

I dont see how competition involving other traits, should be devided between men and women.

I think that stuff is more a remnant of when women were a subservient class and it would have been improper to have a women competing on a level playing field with a man.

A lot of our culture is a hold over from a time when women and men were very much not equal.

I think the physical advantage that men have in for example racing is negligeble and should not prevent women from entering racing.

It doesn't. What prevents women from entering racing is politics and gender stereotyping. There are plenty of women that are more than physically capable of racing at a high level, and most motorsports have no rules specifying that women cannot enter.