Transgender Thread.

[PocketZeven]

That's the nice thing about being a middle-aged, heterosexual white guy and therefore not subject to any stereotypes. I can go about my day observing countless conversations about all manner of subjects and not feel as though others are talking about me...except for that one time I walked by a group of women talking about erectile dysfunction and I just snapped.



It's absurd on the face of it, but I imagine being talked about constantly may lead one to think they're being talked about when they're not the target of talk that's taking place in their presence. And if the the talk about one has a tendency to be negative, the effect is probably amplified and one may take offense.

It'd be better for all involved if one who perceives themself a target takes a moment to consider the likelihood they're not the butt of the joke, but I get it.

It is also very important the subject that is talked about. Everytime I talk about guncontrol in any thread I do feel a lot of animosity of being ganged up against, but the same people can be very insightfull and respectfull on another subject.

 

[TexRex]

It is also very important the subject that is talked about. Everytime I talk about guncontrol in any thread I do feel a lot of animosity of being ganged up against, but the same people can be very insightfull and respectfull on another subject.

The same people can be insightful and respectful on that subject...disagree ≠ disrespect.

 

[PocketZeven]

The same people can be insightful and respectful on that subject...disagree ≠ disrespect.

I am aware of that, but the unicorn guy/girl probably not. It is just seems different from my exprience with trans people.

 

[ryzno]

I remember them...
They got mad when I wouldn't call Bruce, Caitlin and when I said it's a mental issue.

 

[PocketZeven]

I remember them...
They got mad when I wouldn't call Bruce, Caitlin and when I said it's a mental issue.

I would agree on it being psychological, but why not call bruce, caitlin? I dont see any problem with that? If a guy is happier when he/she is a girl then let them be a girl. I dont see the problem with that.

 

[Ialyrn]

This is what I posted on page 3 of this thread. I believe it wasn't till around page 7 where I stated some people where starting to look a bit bigoted, based on some of the things that where been said in this thread. And it was a couple of pages later I outright used the "transphobic" word. I tried for a good number of pages of this thread to have an open dialog with people, and anyone who reads my earlier posts within this thread will be able to see that. Before things turned personal, I was providing information from actual research that has gone into all this. As well as doing my best to provide what information I can based upon life experience.

Actually it does, and quite well. You seem to think that been transgender is a choice, that we just wake up one day and decide we want to live as the opposite gender. Its not that at all. Its about knowing for as long as you can remember that you are wrong, that your body is not what it should be, and there is nothing that you can do about it. You gravitate towards what are seen as girls things (I had two older sisters, and I preferred to play with their toys), but get told they are for girls, and that you are a boy so you cant play with them. You learn to hold it in from a very young age as people don't understand (case and point in this thread), always getting told that it is wrong; that you shouldn't be like that. It eventually becomes overwhelming to either do something about it (as I did), or give in and commit suicide. If we choose the former, we then have to deal with people and their bigoted views. Or people who do not understand, and outright refuse to use the pronouns that are associated with the gender we are; treating and addressing us based solely on our physical sex. Or who are just not able to show any sort of empathy for what we have to go through. To the point that most transgender people live below the poverty line, are refused jobs or fired from ones we already hold. Even refused or evicted from rented accommodation. Not the mention the other issues, such as been attacked in the street, and even murdered. There is even a day of remembrance for transgender people, because so many of us have been killed for being 'freaks', or committed suicide because of how we are and how society treats us. We lose family, I lost my mum for 4 years. When I was finally able to open up and talk about it, she took it badly and beat me black and blue. She has come to terms with it now, and we are talking and seeing each other again. But it took 4 years of me not in her life before she was able to come around, and for her to get the courage to apologize for what she did. But that is the sort of thing we have to go through, and just because of who we are.

So if you think we choose to be like this, no, we don't. I would give anything to not be like I am. I just want to be like everyone else and fit in, not to be treated like a freak on a daily basis. No, I didn't choose to be treated like this, non of us did.

Oh, and I am one of the lucky ones. There are lots of trans people who have it far far worse than me.

Given the concerns I raised last time @Famine I thought you might air better Judgement in future posts within this thread. What might be seen as a joke by some, isnt always how it will seem to others. So when I see you making jokes at the expense of people who are gender fluid, and see @Johnnypenso making jokes at the expense of intersex people. Yeh, its going to get my back up. And its also going to make me thing "is it really worth my time to try and open a dialog with people in this thread again".

So yes, I decided to take it to twitter; and to tag GTP in that thread I posted. Because to me, that seemed the best place for me to approach this subject.

Either way, anyone who checks out my earlier posts; will see that a good portion of time passed before I even indicated that "some" people in this thread might be airing on the side of being transphobic.

Do take in account that this person might be bullied his whole life or could have traumatic experiences, but could also just be a simple troll. Empathy is key here. The fact is some can but wont, but some just cant show any empathy. In my discussions about racism I always take in account that most people dont even know how widespread it is because they dont hear anyone near them complain or experience it first or secondhand. I also try to understand when a racist joke is made because the person is genuinly trying to be funny or is malicious. I dont know the details of your discussions with said person, but I think this person is just uncapable of empathy.

You seem to have a good understanding about things, and your the only person who has properly understood why my attitude changed from been open within the dialog within this thread, to been closed off and stating that people are towing a rather transphobic view in some regards.
As you can see in the post of mine that I quoted above, I did mention about people just showing some human empathy towards others. At the end of the day, we all want to be treated how we ourselves expect to be treated. With a modicum of mutual respect, and the ability to discuss without feeling attacked. Within this thread, I felt attacked. I am not the only transgender individual that participated within this thread that felt like that, I was also not the only one to accuse others of coming across as transphobic. I tried to raise concerns with Famine, those concerns where shot down rather quickly. Thats when things started to get heated, and I eventually took a leave of absence from this thread, and the forums in general. I pop on every now and then, but mainly stay within the Forza section.

 

[ryzno]

I would agree on it being psychological, but why not call bruce, caitlin? I dont see any problem with that? If a guy is happier when he/she is a girl then let them be a girl. I dont see the problem with that.

I refused to call her Caitlin till she finished the surgery, which she still hasn't done. I started calling her, her and Caitlin cause I felt like I was going to get a warning.
I honestly don't care anymore as long as they don't hit on me.

 

[baldgye]

I honestly don't care anymore as long as they don't hit on me.

Obviously, not because you're scared or anything...

 

[ryzno]

Obviously, not because you're scared or anything...

I'm not scared. I don't swing that way and I find it disrespectful to even be asked.

 

[baldgye]

I'm not scared. I don't swing that way and I find it disrespectful to even be asked.

Respect, something that's very important to you I see... Which is odd given your prior stance (that you seemingly champion?) about how you refused call someone by their new name, unless they passed you're arbitrary rules...

 

[ryzno]

Respect, something that's very important to you I see... Which is odd given your prior stance (that you seemingly champion?) about how you refused call someone by their new name, unless they passed you're arbitrary rules...

Did you just miss my post where I just called Catlin her and explained why? They are my arbitrary rules. What I do in my personal life is my business. Cortez is still some girl. Caitlin will always be Bruce and I don't want to be hit on by a homosexual/trans because nothing about me screams gay IMO.
Now I said I don't want to be asked. But guess what? I have been asked, said no and we both moved on with our lives...

 

[baldgye]

Did you just miss my post where I just called Catlin her and explained why?

I started calling her, her and Caitlin cause I felt like I was going to get a warning.

So you only decided to respect someone else, because you felt threatened?

 

[TexRex]

I'm not scared. I don't swing that way and I find it disrespectful to even be asked.

Why on Earth would asking be disrespectful? You decline and move on. If the solicitation proceeds despite you indicating your disinterest, it can move into harassment, which is disrespectful of your wishes.

Another's interest in you has absolutely nothing to do with your own interests.

 

[PocketZeven]

This is what I posted on page 3 of this thread. I believe it wasn't till around page 7 where I stated some people where starting to look a bit bigoted, based on some of the things that where been said in this thread. And it was a couple of pages later I outright used the "transphobic" word. I tried for a good number of pages of this thread to have an open dialog with people, and anyone who reads my earlier posts within this thread will be able to see that. Before things turned personal, I was providing information from actual research that has gone into all this. As well as doing my best to provide what information I can based upon life experience.



Given the concerns I raised last time @Famine I thought you might air better Judgement in future posts within this thread. What might be seen as a joke by some, isnt always how it will seem to others. So when I see you making jokes at the expense of people who are gender fluid, and see @Johnnypenso making jokes at the expense of intersex people. Yeh, its going to get my back up. And its also going to make me thing "is it really worth my time to try and open a dialog with people in this thread again".

So yes, I decided to take it to twitter; and to tag GTP in that thread I posted. Because to me, that seemed the best place for me to approach this subject.

Either way, anyone who checks out my earlier posts; will see that a good portion of time passed before I even indicated that "some" people in this thread might be airing on the side of being transphobic.



You seem to have a good understanding about things, and your the only person who has properly understood why my attitude changed from been open within the dialog within this thread, to been closed off and stating that people are towing a rather transphobic view in some regards.
As you can see in the post of mine that I quoted above, I did mention about people just showing some human empathy towards others. At the end of the day, we all want to be treated how we ourselves expect to be treated. With a modicum of mutual respect, and the ability to discuss without feeling attacked. Within this thread, I felt attacked. I am not the only transgender individual that participated within this thread that felt like that, I was also not the only one to accuse others of coming across as transphobic. I tried to raise concerns with Famine, those concerns where shot down rather quickly. Thats when things started to get heated, and I eventually took a leave of absence from this thread, and the forums in general. I pop on every now and then, but mainly stay within the Forza section.

I have experienced in discussions in this forum regarding views on guncontrol and racism. You have to take in account that the USA is a different culture and are more prone to binary thought (good/bad guy, black/white, left/right, democrats/republican, winner/loser) then europeans. That does not mean the intent is malicious, most often then not they are unaware some things that are said are offensive. You can call them out on it, but try to be respectfull and accept it when why just dont understand it. Calling people bigots while they are not is being offensive in the same way as they are... ignorance. And please dont interpet ignorance as an insult. I just mean they lack the experience/knowledge to understand your view/views. That doesnt say anything about his intelligence or moral compass. Give people who dont understand you time to think about it and maybe they will show empathy for your views down the road.

You might actually have more in common with some of the people with opposing views, when speaking about less or other controversial topics.

So you only decided to respect someone else, because you felt threatened?

It often seems that some men feel threatened when a fellow guy comes out as gay or trans. That is giving yourself way too much credit.

 

[Exorcet]

I'm not scared. I don't swing that way and I find it disrespectful to even be asked.

The point of asking might be to find out your feelings, so they could be respected. The only possible way it could be disrespectful is if the person asking knew it would bother you and approached you anyway.

 

[ryzno]

I've edited my post. Which is going to bring more quotes I'm sure...

 

[PocketZeven]

I've edited my post. Which is going to bring more quotes I'm sure...

The name Bruce was given to him/her. Dont you think that a person should be able to choose his/her name? Regardless of gender?

 

[TexRex]

*sigh*

 

[baldgye]

It often seems that some men feel threatened when a fellow guy comes out as gay or trans. That is giving yourself way too much credit.

I mean, it just screams insecurity to me.

Which the edited post only helps to further explain.

 

[Johnnypenso]

This is what I posted on page 3 of this thread. I believe it wasn't till around page 7 where I stated some people where starting to look a bit bigoted, based on some of the things that where been said in this thread. And it was a couple of pages later I outright used the "transphobic" word. I tried for a good number of pages of this thread to have an open dialog with people, and anyone who reads my earlier posts within this thread will be able to see that. Before things turned personal, I was providing information from actual research that has gone into all this. As well as doing my best to provide what information I can based upon life experience.

Given the concerns I raised last time @Famine I thought you might air better Judgement in future posts within this thread. What might be seen as a joke by some, isnt always how it will seem to others. So when I see you making jokes at the expense of people who are gender fluid, and see @Johnnypenso making jokes at the expense of intersex people. Yeh, its going to get my back up. And its also going to make me thing "is it really worth my time to try and open a dialog with people in this thread again".

So yes, I decided to take it to twitter; and to tag GTP in that thread I posted. Because to me, that seemed the best place for me to approach this subject.

Either way, anyone who checks out my earlier posts; will see that a good portion of time passed before I even indicated that "some" people in this thread might be airing on the side of being transphobic.



You seem to have a good understanding about things, and your the only person who has properly understood why my attitude changed from been open within the dialog within this thread, to been closed off and stating that people are towing a rather transphobic view in some regards.
As you can see in the post of mine that I quoted above, I did mention about people just showing some human empathy towards others. At the end of the day, we all want to be treated how we ourselves expect to be treated. With a modicum of mutual respect, and the ability to discuss without feeling attacked. Within this thread, I felt attacked. I am not the only transgender individual that participated within this thread that felt like that, I was also not the only one to accuse others of coming across as transphobic. I tried to raise concerns with Famine, those concerns where shot down rather quickly. Thats when things started to get heated, and I eventually took a leave of absence from this thread, and the forums in general. I pop on every now and then, but mainly stay within the Forza section.

I play hockey and golf from the left but I can bat left or right handed in baseball so that also makes me ambidextrous and a switch hitter. Usually good for a guffaw or two in the right crowd. I've never met an LGBTQ person in my life that didn't appreciate a good joke, most often at their, or my expense. If "ambidextrous" is all that it takes to get your back up that's pretty sad IMO.

 

[PocketZeven]

I mean, it just screams insecurity to me.

Which the edited post only helps to further explain.

I dont really understand it though. Do some people think it is transmissable or something? As long you know you arent gay/trans why should it matter if someone asked you? How is it offensive? If someone asks if you prefer white or black women, skinny or voluptuous women would you be offended?

I play hockey and golf from the left but I can bat left or right handed in baseball so that also makes me ambidextrous and a switch hitter. Usually good for a guffaw or two in the right crowd. I've never met an LGBTQ person in my life that didn't appreciate a good joke, most often at their, or my expense. If "ambidextrous" is all that it takes to get your back up that's pretty sad IMO.

I think it is the situation of how well do you know someone. If you knew the person better he might understand much better that the joke wasnt inended to offend. Someone who doesnt know you can feel hurt and denigrated.

 

[ryzno]

The name Bruce was given to him/her. Dont you think that a person should be able to choose his/her name? Regardless of gender?

Yes. I called her Bruce cause I thought the whole thing was a sham, a publicity stunt. We all know what their family has done for fame and money. Of course I had no proof so I gave up.

 

[baldgye]

I dont really understand it though. Do some people think it is transmissable or something? As long you know you arent gay/trans why should it matter if someone asked you? How is it offensive? If someone asks if you prefer white or black women, skinny or voluptuous women would you be offended?

I think it more stems from a fear "what if I like people of the same sex?! what does it mean!?"

I agree with you, it shouldn't matter. At the end of the day, we are all just animals and we should be able to form happy consenting relationships with whoever we like without labels limiting us.

 

[TexRex]

I don't want to be hit on by a homosexual/trans because nothing about me screams gay IMO.

 

[PocketZeven]

Yes. I called her Bruce cause I thought the whole thing was a sham, a publicity stunt. We all know what their family has done for fame and money. Of course I had no proof so I gave up.

That came from a whole other place. I also have a problem with that family being disengunuine and very bad examples for the youth. But you do understand people can misunderstand your view as being bigoted against all trans people.

View attachment 768763

Some people really think all gay people are the "sissy" stereotype. Ricky Martin, Matt Bomer, Neill patrick Harris, Zachary Quinto (Yes Spock), Wentworth Miller are not really the typical sissys are they?

 

[TexRex]

Zachary Quinto

 

[Johnnypenso]

Yes. I called her Bruce cause I thought the whole thing was a sham, a publicity stunt. We all know what their family has done for fame and money. Of course I had no proof so I gave up.

Semi-related funny story. I don't follow Kardashian drama but of course you can't help but run across an image here or there. I was at a party a couple of weeks ago and some of the girls were talking about the Kardashians and so I said, "Hey whatever happened to the little sister, the one with no lips and the average looks? Did she have to get a real job or something? They all laughed histerically and showed me a current picture of her. I had no idea it was the same person. I'd seen her with her new face from time to time but I thought it was a completely different person!

 

[ryzno]

That came from a whole other place. I also have a problem with that family being disengunuine and very bad examples for the youth. But you do understand people can misunderstand your view as being bigoted against all trans people.

I know it. I've stated here before I don't like the idea of this. Which makes me homophobic. But I can also accept the fact that's what they want to be. I don't get why people get so offended just cause I don't agree with their choice.

 

[PocketZeven]

Most underrated show ever! I watched that one and only season about 3 times!

I know it. I've stated here before I don't like the idea of this. Which makes me homophobic. But I can also accept the fact that's what they want to be. I don't get why people get so offended just cause I don't agree with their choice.

As long there is mutual respect I fully aree you are entitled to your own opinion.

 

[ryzno]

Most underrated show ever! I watched that one and only season about 3 times!



As long there is mutual respect I fully aree you are entitled to your own opinion.

There is. I know I was wrong for calling her Bruce and I'd never say it to her face, she'd probably punch me in the face lol.