Transgender Thread.

[Danoff]

I don't really consider it odd. If there was a separate wing for black women that segregated them from all other races I assume there would be a similar reaction from black women, no matter if the segregation was instituted for their benefit (e.g. to protect from racist attacks).

There's simply no expectation on the part of the criminally convicted for how they are incarcerated outside of guaranteed safety, which should be the standard we hold ourselves to. They shouldn't be mistreated, or arbitrarily subjected to worse conditions. If segregation is how we have to keep them safe, they have no expectation against it.

Segregation along gender is currently a major tool for keeping prisoners safe. There is a massive gender disparity among criminals, and we use that to practical effect today. Perhaps there is a better way, and if so, we should adopt it. For now, we currently segregate criminals on the basis of gender primarily to ensure safety of the population, and I see no reason why that shouldn't extend to transgender individuals as well.

 

[HenrySwanson]

For now, we currently segregate criminals on the basis of gender primarily to ensure safety of the population, and I see no reason why that shouldn't extend to transgender individuals as well.

I think that's the crux of the issue.

MtF trans prisoners may see themselves as female - the same gender as cis-women.

 

[Danoff]

I think that's the crux of the issue.

MtF trans prisoners may see themselves as female - the same gender as cis-women.

I understand this. The prison system can see them according to safety.

 

[HenrySwanson]

I understand this. The prison system can see them according to safety.

Sorry I should have said I understand your logic, but was giving a reason why it's not odd to me that there was a mixed reaction from the community.

I wonder if there were separate wings according to race, religion or sexuality if there would be a similar response.

 

[Scaff]

Meta analysis of regret following medical transitioning shows a less than 1% regret rate, with some of that being temporary.

How common is transgender treatment regret, detransitioning?

Lawmakers often cite concerns about young people regretting irreversible body-altering transgender medical treatment, but studies suggest regret is uncommon.

apnews.com

 

[Liquid]

It's a deeply personal question but I wonder if anyone on the forum who has transitioned would be comfortable confirming so?

My ignorance and general staying out of the debates with trans issues is that, to my knowledge, I don't know anybody who is trans.

 

[Danoff]

It's a deeply personal question but I wonder if anyone on the forum who has transitioned would be comfortable confirming so?

My ignorance and general staying out of the debates with trans issues is that, to my knowledge, I don't know anybody who is trans.

Well I'm not but I mentioned earlier that I have a relative that is trans. I know we have forum members that are.

 

[Uncreative]

It's a deeply personal question but I wonder if anyone on the forum who has transitioned would be comfortable confirming so?

My ignorance and general staying out of the debates with trans issues is that, to my knowledge, I don't know anybody who is trans.

I haven't said anything on their thread yet, but I'm non binary (and I guess demigirl too)

 

[Aphelion]

It's a deeply personal question but I wonder if anyone on the forum who has transitioned would be comfortable confirming so?

My ignorance and general staying out of the debates with trans issues is that, to my knowledge, I don't know anybody who is trans.

I'm a nonbinary-trans woman. Im actually really lucky and I'm genuinely quite enjoying my experience (two months on hormone therapy so far) because I have an incredibly supportive group of friends, family and co-workers. Turns out, being trans is really fun if you aren't surrounded by bigotry and loathing! 😊

 

[Dan]

I’m also a trans woman (possibly non-binary, but I’m still doing some introspection). I’ve been meaning to do it for a while but I should really look into changing my name here.

 

[Aphelion]

I’m also a trans woman (possibly non-binary, but I’m still doing some introspection). I’ve been meaning to do it for a while but I should really look into changing my name here.

Just shoot Jordan a DM! (Pretty sure thats how it works as long as you have premium)

 

[Daniel]

I’m also a trans woman (possibly non-binary, but I’m still doing some introspection). I’ve been meaning to do it for a while but I should really look into changing my name here.

I have dibs on 'Dan' when you change it.

 

[Famine]

Just shoot Jordan a DM! (Pretty sure thats how it works as long as you have premium)

If you have Premium you can change your name yourself.

 

[Danoff]

Tennessee has banned gender affirming care for minors (including hormone therapy, it is not limited to surgery). This ruling has been allowed by a federal court to take effect. This case seems likely headed for the supreme court.

Children cannot be denied a life-saving blood transfusion on the grounds that their parents are Jehovah's Witnesses and that it violates their freedom of religion - at least based on my understanding, please correct me if that's wrong. This Tennessee ban strikes me almost as the opposite - as if JW's managed to get a ban on blood transfusions for minors enforced by the state. The legal argument seems almost the other way around, that children should not be legally able to be denied.

If the child's life is at risk (and that's demonstrable in many of these cases), and the child's doctors believe that this is a necessary treatment to address that risk, it strikes me that Tennessee should have the exact opposite law - that the child's guardians can be forced to allow treatment.

What this law is saying is that even if the child's doctors and parents all agree, the state has prevented them from taking this course of action, which could be a life-saving act. Pretty far out of bed with where it should be.

 

[TexRex]

Tennessee has banned gender affirming care for minors (including hormone therapy, it is not limited to surgery). This ruling has been allowed by a federal court to take effect. This case seems likely headed for the supreme court.

Children cannot be denied a life-saving blood transfusion on the grounds that their parents are Jehovah's Witnesses and that it violates their freedom of religion - at least based on my understanding, please correct me if that's wrong. This Tennessee ban strikes me almost as the opposite - as if JW's managed to get a ban on blood transfusions for minors enforced by the state. The legal argument seems almost the other way around, that children should not be legally able to be denied.

If the child's life is at risk (and that's demonstrable in many of these cases), and the child's doctors believe that this is a necessary treatment to address that risk, it strikes me that Tennessee should have the exact opposite law - that the child's guardians can be forced to allow treatment.

What this law is saying is that even if the child's doctors and parents all agree, the state has prevented them from taking this course of action, which could be a life-saving act. Pretty far out of bed with where it should be.

The consistent inconsistency of conservatives concerning consent.

 

[novcze]

From now on, female transgender athletes who have transitioned after (male) puberty will be prohibited from participating in women's events on the UCI International Calendar – in all categories – in the various disciplines.

The UCI Management Committee has taken note of the state of scientific knowledge, which does not confirm that at least two years of gender-affirming hormone therapy with a target plasma testosterone concentration of 2.5 nmol/L is sufficient to completely eliminate the benefits of testosterone during puberty in men. In addition, there is considerable inter-individual variability in response to gender-confirming hormone therapy, which makes it even more difficult to draw precise conclusions about the effects of such treatment. Given the current state of scientific knowledge, it is also impossible to rule out the possibility that biomechanical factors such as the shape and arrangement of the bones in their limbs may constitute a lasting advantage for female transgender athletes.

https://www.uci.org/pressrelease/th...ransgender-athletes-in/6FnXDIzvzxtWFOvbOEnKbC


... it took some time but finally the world governing body of cycling is protecting female athletes, it also should be noted, that trans athletes can compete in Masters, because Men categories will be renamed to Men/Open

 

[Danoff]

it is also impossible to rule out the possibility that biomechanical factors such as the shape and arrangement of the bones in their limbs may constitute a lasting advantage for female transgender athletes.

Seems like a slam-dunk argument for basketball as well.

 

[Uncreative]

It's a deeply personal question but I wonder if anyone on the forum who has transitioned would be comfortable confirming so?

My ignorance and general staying out of the debates with trans issues is that, to my knowledge, I don't know anybody who is trans.

I'm a non binary trans woman, I haven't fully transitioned, and I'm still not sure if I want to, but I'm on HRT, and ever since I've started I've been way happier. In almost every case of a person being trans GAC or just being affirmed in every day life is the best thing they can do for themselves.

 

[Liquid]

I'm a non binary trans woman, I haven't fully transitioned, and I'm still not sure if I want to, but I'm on HRT, and ever since I've started I've been way happier. In almost every case of a person being trans GAC or just being affirmed in every day life is the best thing they can do for themselves.

And if I may ask,

How much bigotry or uncomfort from other people have you experienced? Is there a typical day-to-day thing you have to put up with?

 

[Uncreative]

And if I may ask,

How much bigotry or uncomfort from other people have you experienced? Is there a typical day-to-day thing you have to put up with?

I'm still pretty male passing, so I'm assuming most people just think I'm just a feminine man, but there's the occasional F or T slur by particularly vocal transphobes, so I guess they can tell.

Irl transphobia is WAY different than online transphobia though, on social medias (especially Instagram and Twitter after musk bought it) there is an insane amount of general LGBTQ phobia, and it's way easier to find. I've had people send me death threats and call me a pedophile before just because I'm trans.

I think that if I made more of an effort to try to pass in everyday life, I think more people would notice I'm male and say something, but currently it's not very obvious I'm trans just by looking.

Tldr I don't really look trans, so irl transphobia isn't too bad, but online transphobia is vicious.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

I'm still pretty male passing, so I'm assuming most people just think I'm just a feminine man, but there's the occasional F or T slur by particularly vocal transphobes, so I guess they can tell.

Irl transphobia is WAY different than online transphobia though, on social medias (especially Instagram and Twitter after musk bought it) there is an insane amount of general LGBTQ phobia, and it's way easier to find. I've had people send me death threats and call me a pedophile before just because I'm trans.

I think that if I made more of an effort to try to pass in everyday life, I think more people would notice I'm male and say something, but currently it's not very obvious I'm trans just by looking.

Tldr I don't really look trans, so irl transphobia isn't too bad, but online transphobia is vicious.

Just curious here - you identify as non-binary as a transitionary step? I know non-binary people who wouldn't characterize themselves as man or woman (which I thought was the point). Again - just curious.

Second question...and lets limit it to a sport where pure biological ability is the most paramount to success (such as cycling, I'd argue its a lot less critical in other sports, but thats a different topic) how do you feel about trans women competing against biological women? My non-binary friend is an avid cyclist and will only participate in open-gender classifications, but I think that's less about competitive issues (primarily because they aren't very competitive ) and more about identity (I feel weird asking them specifically pointed questions like that). Feel free to either not answer or say you don't have an opinion, I'm just genuinely curious.

Competitive sports are only a small part of the human experience, and for most people, not even that much, so the whole question/debate is largely unimportant in the grand scheme of gender identity. But I think it's still a tricky question.

 

[Liquid]

Competitive sports are only a small part of the human experience

Yet so high-profile and conspicuous. That's what makes it such an issue.

 

[Uncreative]

Just curious here - you identify as non-binary as a transitionary step? I know non-binary people who wouldn't characterize themselves as man or woman (which I thought was the point). Again - just curious.

Second question...and lets limit it to a sport where pure biological ability is the most paramount to success (such as cycling, I'd argue its a lot less critical in other sports, but thats a different topic) how do you feel about trans women competing against biological women? My non-binary friend is an avid cyclist and will only participate in open-gender classifications, but I think that's less about competitive issues (primarily because they aren't very competitive ) and more about identity (I feel weird asking them specifically pointed questions like that). Feel free to either not answer or say you don't have an opinion, I'm just genuinely curious.

Competitive sports are only a small part of the human experience, and for most people, not even that much, so the whole question/debate is largely unimportant in the grand scheme of gender identity. But I think it's still a tricky question.

About the first question, although this is kind of simplifying it, I'd say that most non binary people identify as not man or woman, but there are some like me, who are more specifically demi boy or demi girl which means "a person who feels their gender identity partially identifies with a feminine or masculine identity, but is not wholly binary". I pretty much fall into the camp of demi girl.

I don't really watch sports other than motorsports and some soccer, so I'm not invested enough to have a full answer, but in my opinion sports like cycling shouldn't be separated by gender, but instead something like muscle mass or weight, although like I said I don't know much about sports.

If you have any more questions feel free to ask away

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

About the first question, although this is kind of simplifying it, I'd say that most non binary people identify as not man or woman, but there are some like me, who are more specifically demi boy or demi girl which means "a person who feels their gender identity partially identifies with a feminine or masculine identity, but is not wholly binary". I pretty much fall into the camp of demi girl.

I don't really watch sports other than motorsports and some soccer, so I'm not invested enough to have a full answer, but in my opinion sports like cycling shouldn't be separated by gender, but instead something like muscle mass or weight, although like I said I don't know much about sports.

If you have any more questions feel free to ask away

I've heard of testosterone scales being used to categorize athletes before, but I don't think there's a perfect answer any way you slice it. Separating cycling by muscle mass or weight would obliterate even the current men's cycling peloton if you compare somebody like Egan Bernal to Tim Declerq.

Motorsports is an interesting one because biology doesn't play much into it, men and women have competed against each other (though not much for cultural reason) since the beginning, and presumably anyone anywhere on that spectrum could as well. Maybe we just need more sports that are more neutral towards raw biological ability - in other words sports that don't rely on a person's V02 max being critical to success, like it is in cycling and probably swimming.

 

[Aphelion]

I'm still pretty male passing, so I'm assuming most people just think I'm just a feminine man, but there's the occasional F or T slur by particularly vocal transphobes, so I guess they can tell.

Irl transphobia is WAY different than online transphobia though, on social medias (especially Instagram and Twitter after musk bought it) there is an insane amount of general LGBTQ phobia, and it's way easier to find. I've had people send me death threats and call me a pedophile before just because I'm trans.

I think that if I made more of an effort to try to pass in everyday life, I think more people would notice I'm male and say something, but currently it's not very obvious I'm trans just by looking.

Tldr I don't really look trans, so irl transphobia isn't too bad, but online transphobia is vicious.

It also maaaassively depends where you live. I look pretty non-binary and like wearing jewellery to pass a lil more on the femenine side. Inner city here in brisbane Australia, and most of the inner suburbs, people treat me shockingly well. Most people are happier to see me now than they ever were pre-transition. However, even some suburbs a little as a 30 minute drive out of the city feel quite noticeably colder. No-one genders me correctly, people act confused when i give them a feminine name, people stare for extended periods of time with 0 self awareness. Its definitely isolating, I have a friend who lives an hours drive from me who feels like she cant leave the house because of how many negative experiences shes had with people in her area.

 

[Uncreative]

It also maaaassively depends where you live. I look pretty non-binary and like wearing jewellery to pass a lil more on the femenine side. Inner city here in brisbane Australia, and most of the inner suburbs, people treat me shockingly well. Most people are happier to see me now than they ever were pre-transition. However, even some suburbs a little as a 30 minute drive out of the city feel quite noticeably colder. No-one genders me correctly, people act confused when i give them a feminine name, people stare for extended periods of time with 0 self awareness. Its definitely isolating, I have a friend who lives an hours drive from me who feels like she cant leave the house because of how many negative experiences shes had with people in her area.

Yeah, I live in a suburban area around Chicago, so it's pretty liberal, so people are basically always civil about trans people. I recently went to Tennessee and while the family I was staying with was super nice, there are some places where I'd definitely present more masculine just in case.

 

[ScottPuss20]

Competitive sports are only a small part of the human experience, and for most people, not even that much.

For a lot of people it's a huge part of their life, whether they compete in it or not. Fairness in sport is a very important topic so people have every right to debate it.

 

[UKMikey]

For a lot of people it's a huge part of their life, whether they compete in it or not. Fairness in sport is a very important topic so people have every right to debate it.

You missed out the rest of his sentence. I doubt it's as important to a lot of people who debate it as gender identity is to the people they're attacking.

 

[ScottPuss20]

You missed out the rest of his sentence. I doubt it's as important to a lot of people who debate it as gender identity is to the people they're attacking.

I don't agree with this. The gender debate is very important to a lot of people who wish to see fair sporting competitions.

 

[UKMikey]

I don't agree with this. The gender debate is very important to a lot of people who wish to see fair sporting competitions.

I don't agree with this. I believe the gender debate is being used by a lot of high profile people who'd previously publicly expressed no interest in sports to scapegoat other people and deny their human rights.

If sports were classified by muscle mass then they'd be a lot fairer than they are now with the added benefit of not having to check athletes' genitals in public before competitions.