Triumph Spitfire Series #2
- Thread starter watermelon punch
- 266 comments
- 13,291 views
- 6,392
- Pennsylvania
- wat3rm370n
Well then post some Mount TopMore lap times, big man! LOL
Let's see where you're at!
I did find a magical tune for Cape Ring North. 👍
Not that my driving there is anything like magical. 👎
I'd really need something on the order of a miracle on that track.
Thanks for letting me join in!lots of fun at Eiger, and yes my car is in an original colour, Maple. Topmore was bit of a handful, not because of the track (hehe) but the night (here) was taking its toll..and I saw my car being notably slower on the straight than yours. Are you all using power limiters or were my settings just horrible..who knows, its a car that needs a lot of finetuning to perform well, but it sure was fun getting to drive it!
1) when we arrived at Mount TopMore, and you said you were tired... All I could think was... being sleepy on one's 1st visit to Mount TopMore would be NOT GOOD.
Best to try such a track for the 1st time while fully alert!! haha.(I'm thinking it was quite late in CET time zone when you left? It was merely dinner time for me.)
2) Most of us are using some combination of engine upgrades and intake/exhaust, and then using the power restrictor, yes. It does make a distinct difference to the foot pounds of torque when it comes to Mount TopMore's hills. This much I'm sure about.
I know some people are using 2nd stage engine, some 3rd stage engine. Some use various sports, semi-racing, or racing exhausts.
I can tell various differences when I hear the cars pass me. It's interesting the different sounds between the exhausts.
I have long suspected that some use the racing exhaust simply because of the drumbeat sort of VROOM VROOM sound it makes. haha
Otherwise, some say fixed sports kit is fine. Others use height adjustable sports kit. Others use full suspension at default. Others have extremely detailed tuning set-ups.
What's interesting is that among the fastest Spitfire racers... Tuning does not seem to be something they all agree on. For example, AOK I think does a lot with his tuning set-up. IMZIZ says he does not. They seem to be the most consistently fastest in the previous event, and in the practices for this one. And if they don't agree... then I think it's a case that with the Spitfire, one size does not fit all.
- 1,281
- ID_racing
I believe, tuning is more about adapting a given car to your own style of driving. A good driver can take any corner maybe 5/10´s faster than a bad one, tuning wont help the bad driver much in that case!
The power restrictor gives me a headache, because it seems judging also from more powerful cars, you do get an advantage (with torque as you said) and I like to keep cars as stock as possible to enjoy their differences in driving character.
But it was great driving with you guys, and yes it was close to 0.50 am when I decided I couldnt really judge the corners anymore.. hope I can join in some other time.
(and BE WELCOME to boot..LOL)
The power restrictor gives me a headache, because it seems judging also from more powerful cars, you do get an advantage (with torque as you said) and I like to keep cars as stock as possible to enjoy their differences in driving character.
But it was great driving with you guys, and yes it was close to 0.50 am when I decided I couldnt really judge the corners anymore..
hope I can join in some other time.(and BE WELCOME to boot..LOL)
- 6,392
- Pennsylvania
- wat3rm370n
Oh definitely I think tuning is much to do with getting a car to behave more to your own liking.
And I believe the fastest drivers are the ones who can go fast in any car, with or without a custom set-up.
I really don't think there's some "magic tune" for a car that suddenly you can win races automatically. Practice makes perfect... someone who plays a lot, has an opportunity to become quite experienced and natural, I think.
Of course it's also true that someone who practices tuning, will also be better at that.
But it's very personal. There's no magical tune that's going to work 100% for every person.
BUT, I do believe set-ups play a key role as well, as for general car abilities.
In the case of my car on Cape Ring North.
The practice the other days... I would see in the replays, some cars going on the Circle at over 95mph. If I went 1 over 85mph, my car would go WILD. It was literally IMPOSSIBLE to make my car go that fast on the circle, as it was. There was no technique which could achieve this. And what technique should be needed for a simple circle?? The car just would NOT maintain any grip whatsoever over 87mph.
Then CC570 said, "Circle is easy peasy, the car drives itself" - and he had NO problem going over 90mph on the circle.
Noting that on other tracks, my set-up is very very nice for me. (I don't blame the car on other tracks at all.) But no minor adjustments seemed to really nail down the car on the Circle.
So in this last practice... I wrote down all my settings, to save them for the other tracks. And I made a RADICAL tuning change.
And suddenly now I can easily go over 90mph on the Circle at Cape Ring North.
That's a set-up issue, not a driver skill issue. The serious problems I was having on the Circle was not me... it was my car's settings.
Am I the fastest on Cape Ring North? NOT AT ALL. But at least I'm no longer 10+ seconds behind the best time!! And now people aren't passing me like I'm standing still on the Circle... I don't have to baby it at 83mph to keep from spinning out on the darn Circle.
In a perfect GT5 world, you would be able to restrict or allow each tuning part for a race. Alas, it's not a perfect GT5 world.
You will always... BE WELCOME.
No no, please don't practice anymore... You're fast enough. LOL
But I was just thinking... I think the slowest 1st grid start may have put a few people off-balance on Mount TopMore. It's kind of tricky to pass there, and if you're practiced in being able to go a certain speed in certain parts, having a car in front of you could really change things drastically - because 1st you have to slow when they slow, & 2nd, you catch a draft & speed up.
In your case though - if you were on heaven forbid comfort tires... I can't imagine how you made it through that 1st turn at all. hahaha.
I had switched it from fastest 1st to slowest 1st on Eiger in the rain, because I noticed I was a tad more practiced on that track in the rain than the others who were there at the time (I had set the best lap *gasp*), and I wanted to get in some practice with following people in the rain (instead of shoved up front at the start). It's very difficult to find passing opportunities on Eiger, and I get kind of tight following closely on that track, so I wanted the practice... Because I've noticed sometimes I lose time because I'm reluctant to follow too closely, and therefore pull back too much and then lose time. (Overall I'd rather lose time than rear-end another car. But overall I'd rather just be able to not lose time and still not rear-end another car!)
And I believe the fastest drivers are the ones who can go fast in any car, with or without a custom set-up.
I really don't think there's some "magic tune" for a car that suddenly you can win races automatically. Practice makes perfect... someone who plays a lot, has an opportunity to become quite experienced and natural, I think.
Of course it's also true that someone who practices tuning, will also be better at that.
But it's very personal. There's no magical tune that's going to work 100% for every person.
BUT, I do believe set-ups play a key role as well, as for general car abilities.
In the case of my car on Cape Ring North.
The practice the other days... I would see in the replays, some cars going on the Circle at over 95mph. If I went 1 over 85mph, my car would go WILD. It was literally IMPOSSIBLE to make my car go that fast on the circle, as it was. There was no technique which could achieve this. And what technique should be needed for a simple circle?? The car just would NOT maintain any grip whatsoever over 87mph.
Then CC570 said, "Circle is easy peasy, the car drives itself" - and he had NO problem going over 90mph on the circle.
Noting that on other tracks, my set-up is very very nice for me. (I don't blame the car on other tracks at all.) But no minor adjustments seemed to really nail down the car on the Circle.
So in this last practice... I wrote down all my settings, to save them for the other tracks. And I made a RADICAL tuning change.
And suddenly now I can easily go over 90mph on the Circle at Cape Ring North.
That's a set-up issue, not a driver skill issue. The serious problems I was having on the Circle was not me... it was my car's settings.
Am I the fastest on Cape Ring North? NOT AT ALL. But at least I'm no longer 10+ seconds behind the best time!! And now people aren't passing me like I'm standing still on the Circle... I don't have to baby it at 83mph to keep from spinning out on the darn Circle.
In a perfect GT5 world, you would be able to restrict or allow each tuning part for a race. Alas, it's not a perfect GT5 world.
But it was great driving with you guys, and yes it was close to 0.50 am when I decided I couldnt really judge the corners anymore..
(and BE WELCOME to boot..LOL)
You will always... BE WELCOME.
No no, please don't practice anymore... You're fast enough. LOL
But I was just thinking... I think the slowest 1st grid start may have put a few people off-balance on Mount TopMore. It's kind of tricky to pass there, and if you're practiced in being able to go a certain speed in certain parts, having a car in front of you could really change things drastically - because 1st you have to slow when they slow, & 2nd, you catch a draft & speed up.
In your case though - if you were on heaven forbid comfort tires... I can't imagine how you made it through that 1st turn at all. hahaha.
I had switched it from fastest 1st to slowest 1st on Eiger in the rain, because I noticed I was a tad more practiced on that track in the rain than the others who were there at the time (I had set the best lap *gasp*), and I wanted to get in some practice with following people in the rain (instead of shoved up front at the start). It's very difficult to find passing opportunities on Eiger, and I get kind of tight following closely on that track, so I wanted the practice... Because I've noticed sometimes I lose time because I'm reluctant to follow too closely, and therefore pull back too much and then lose time. (Overall I'd rather lose time than rear-end another car. But overall I'd rather just be able to not lose time and still not rear-end another car!)
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- 819
- Kingdom of Fife
- jackargent
Yeah mucking about with the set up has definitely improved my ability to keep the car on the track although it's hard to tell sometimes how much is set up & how much is practice. As a relative newcomer to this online racing malarkey, I would welcome any feedback on my driving style both in terms of ability & etiquette.
- 1,325
- In the gravel trap
- RDAardvark
- 819
- Kingdom of Fife
- jackargent
- 6,392
- Pennsylvania
- wat3rm370n
Well, in the case of my car & Cape Ring North... it was pretty obvious that it was the set-up, because the car simply wouldn't stay on the track at anywhere near the speeds others were going on the Circle.
You're not hitting other cars & rear-ending at corners and stuff. I almost never see your car have contact with other cars. So as far as that's concerned I think most people would rate you at aces for proper conduct & good sportsmanship.
As for anything else, I'm not in a position myself to critique techniques. I just know you're very clever about defending your leading line - and legally so I'm not complaining, I'm just saying don't think I don't notice. haha.
Even in the rain on Eiger?
Care to share?
There's no magic tune for Eiger in the rain, that will allow you to go full throttle top speed with blustery abandon.
Sorry to rain on your parade.
So if that's what you're looking for, it's a vain hope. haha.
*throws over a wet blanket*
It's just simply wet, and if you push it too fast, you're going to wind up counter-steering... and if you can't counter-steer well enough, you're going to spin out. Either way you're losing gobs of time, compared to someone who's moseying along like a grandpa with a hat on.
Eiger in heavy rain... SLOWER = FASTER.
- 6,392
- Pennsylvania
- wat3rm370n
- 1,325
- In the gravel trap
- RDAardvark
Eiger in wet conditions: 1:24.889 Don't like this!
Mt TopMore: 1:14.761 (hanging on by the seat of my pants!)
Cape Ring North: 1:50.260 (This is what I have recorded, think I've gone faster!)
Not even driven the other three tracks yet. Should be able to rectify this tonight.
Don't like this!Mt TopMore: 1:14.761 (hanging on by the seat of my pants!)
Cape Ring North: 1:50.260 (This is what I have recorded, think I've gone faster!)
Not even driven the other three tracks yet. Should be able to rectify this tonight.
- 1,325
- In the gravel trap
- RDAardvark
- 819
- Kingdom of Fife
- jackargent
- 1,325
- In the gravel trap
- RDAardvark
- 121
- Las Vegas, NV
- IMZIZ
I can indeed confirm JLawrence was running those times. The man drives like a bat out of hell... and I mean that in a good way.
Of course, I can't confirm Eiger because we didn't run that one together, but knowing what my times were like, that truly rocks.
If it was full rain, it's positively amazing. If it was clearing up, but still a little wet, that makes a fair amount of sense.
Of course, I can't confirm Eiger because we didn't run that one together, but knowing what my times were like, that truly rocks.
If it was full rain, it's positively amazing. If it was clearing up, but still a little wet, that makes a fair amount of sense.
- 819
- Kingdom of Fife
- jackargent
c'mon guys! what's with all this practice... you're making me nervous.
- 1,283
- GTP_FreakinWolfy
Topmore Update: Fast laps mid 14's consistent 14.9s =)
I think we're gonna have a race IMZIZ!
I did a little tweaking to the suspension to fix the understeer we were talking about last night. I'm loving it.
Oh, and I have a lobby open right now for those who are interested.
PSN JLawrence_
I think we're gonna have a race IMZIZ!
I did a little tweaking to the suspension to fix the understeer we were talking about last night. I'm loving it.
Oh, and I have a lobby open right now for those who are interested.
PSN JLawrence_
- 6,392
- Pennsylvania
- wat3rm370n
Sports soft tires.
jackargent is right... sports soft tires have tread.
You also won't be going fast in too many straight lines on Eiger short track.
I race Eiger in the rain in shuffle races on comfort softs regularly... It's not a problem in lower power road cars.
(And believe me, I'm the 1st to complain about crappy tires in lousy situations. Sports soft tires are perfectly reasonable in this context.)
I'm pretty sure I didn't see anyone get down past the mid 1:21 on Eiger when the rain was set to fixed. And those were by IMZIZ, AOK, me, and possibly Aceboy127 (but I think Aceboy127 didn't get that time until I'd switched it to non-fixed - I'm not sure Aceboy127 got in a timed lap with it set to fixed, but I may be wrong).
If the rain is set to non-fixed - it's never quite as bad as the fixed setting.
That said, it won't be set to fixed for the actual event race.
There's a reason you & I do better in the heavier rain, you know. It has to do with patience, more than anything else.
Upper 1:18 is about my average 1st lap time during a race on Mount TopMore. Lower 1:18s are my average consistent times during races.
I think I've only ever gotten down to low 1:17... and only on a track by myself, not during a race.
Since the race is 8 laps, even if you can get a 1:15/1:16 lap on Mount TopMore... if you go off track or spin out, you will never be able to catch up with & pass all the 1:18 people drafting each other, by the end of 8 laps.
So if someone sets a low lap time... it could be in the middle of flying laps where they went flying off track or spinning out. They may not be able to set those kinds of times during a race, driving cleanly with other people on the track, & especially if they have to pass someone first before they can do that. Especially on the 7th or 8th lap, when tire wear may come into play if you're consistently pushing it hard the 1st 6 laps.
So take heart Jujubean & jackargent... Mount TopMore does reward patience.
jackargent is right... sports soft tires have tread.
You also won't be going fast in too many straight lines on Eiger short track.
I race Eiger in the rain in shuffle races on comfort softs regularly... It's not a problem in lower power road cars.
(And believe me, I'm the 1st to complain about crappy tires in lousy situations. Sports soft tires are perfectly reasonable in this context.)
I'm pretty sure I didn't see anyone get down past the mid 1:21 on Eiger when the rain was set to fixed. And those were by IMZIZ, AOK, me, and possibly Aceboy127 (but I think Aceboy127 didn't get that time until I'd switched it to non-fixed - I'm not sure Aceboy127 got in a timed lap with it set to fixed, but I may be wrong).
If the rain is set to non-fixed - it's never quite as bad as the fixed setting.
That said, it won't be set to fixed for the actual event race.
There's a reason you & I do better in the heavier rain, you know. It has to do with patience, more than anything else.
Ive run 18s on topmore, which means 16s are possible
Upper 1:18 is about my average 1st lap time during a race on Mount TopMore. Lower 1:18s are my average consistent times during races.
I think I've only ever gotten down to low 1:17... and only on a track by myself, not during a race.
Since the race is 8 laps, even if you can get a 1:15/1:16 lap on Mount TopMore... if you go off track or spin out, you will never be able to catch up with & pass all the 1:18 people drafting each other, by the end of 8 laps.
So if someone sets a low lap time... it could be in the middle of flying laps where they went flying off track or spinning out. They may not be able to set those kinds of times during a race, driving cleanly with other people on the track, & especially if they have to pass someone first before they can do that. Especially on the 7th or 8th lap, when tire wear may come into play if you're consistently pushing it hard the 1st 6 laps.
So take heart Jujubean & jackargent... Mount TopMore does reward patience.
- 1,283
- GTP_FreakinWolfy
Maybe a sharp stick in the eye instead?
Edit:
Sorry guys, there is a big storm going through here as of now, and my power is cutting on and off. I won't be able to host the lobby for now.
If one of you do start one I'll certainly try to join!
Edit (Again)
Looks like we're good afterall! =p
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- 2,600
- Saint Louis
- diabolicwyvern
I'm going to test the car in my lobby then. I just built it and hear its a bit sketch at times. 
- 6,392
- Pennsylvania
- wat3rm370n
So did anyone get together & practice tonight?
That sounds like great fun. Maybe we could have a post event fun race for this. Considering the length of the pit exit road, I'm quite sure everyone would drive very carefully!! haha.
Anyway, no it's not a typo. It's just as it says. 18 laps @ Eiger Nordwand Short Track Weather Change (rain/non-fixed)
The top determining factor in my decision was that the tracks that were the most popular among those polled would be the longest races.
I had sent out a poll to everyone involved in the last Spitfire series, as well as to a few people who were interested but didn't make the last event series simply because of scheduling.
I came up with a list of 13 tracks, based on suggestions from people in the last event series, and ones I was interested in.
Everyone assigned numbers to the tracks, in order from their favourite to their least desired track to be included.
I took everyone's listed #s for each track, & added them together to get a value. The tracks with the lowest combined added numbers were of course the ones that were rated higher overall by all.
If someone didn't number all tracks (1 through 13), I took the ones they didn't number, and put them in order of how other people rated them.
Those who did # them, I added theirs together 1st, and then assigned the #s to the rest of the people's lists according to that.
In other words, if someone only numbered 5 of the 13 tracks. Whatever track was already highest among the others, was set to #6, and so on down.
So if you didn't bother to number them all, that's your fault for not following instructions, & allowed other people who did take the trouble to number them all, to have more influence about how to order those other tracks. LOL
For example, 2 people failed to assign a # to Eiger Weather & a couple other tracks, at all, so the will of everyone else who did number it, determined the # assignment it was given in their lists.
3 people rated Eiger Weather Change in their top 3.
And 2 people rated Eiger Weather Change as their #1 choice!!
Can you guess which 2 people rated Eiger Weather Change as their #1 choice? Just take a guess which 2 people!!
I bet you could guess one of them.. But the other you would probably laugh about if you knew!
Here was the end result, of adding all the polling together:
As you can see, the top 6 most popular tracks from my polling are the 6 tracks included in this 6 race series.
The top 2 were set up to be 25-30 minute races.
The other 4 will be ballpark +/- 15 minute races.
I hope this gives everyone a better understanding how I decided these things.
I really did my best to please all parties interested, when organizing this race series. I did it in the most fair & mathematical way I could come up with. And mathematically, I did not give myself any more weight in the final decisions than anyone else I polled. I did the poll myself, & counted it in with all the others.
For the 1st race series, all the tracks included were included based on suggestions from interested parties. There were fewer of us then, so the decision was easier.
Perhaps with this full disclosure, you'll know how I work for the next time I send out a poll to organize a race. And you'll be very careful to follow my polling instructions very specifically to make sure you get your most fair & detailed 2 cents in. haha
That sounds like great fun. Maybe we could have a post event fun race for this. Considering the length of the pit exit road, I'm quite sure everyone would drive very carefully!! haha.
Anyway, no it's not a typo. It's just as it says. 18 laps @ Eiger Nordwand Short Track Weather Change (rain/non-fixed)
The top determining factor in my decision was that the tracks that were the most popular among those polled would be the longest races.
I had sent out a poll to everyone involved in the last Spitfire series, as well as to a few people who were interested but didn't make the last event series simply because of scheduling.
I came up with a list of 13 tracks, based on suggestions from people in the last event series, and ones I was interested in.
Everyone assigned numbers to the tracks, in order from their favourite to their least desired track to be included.
I took everyone's listed #s for each track, & added them together to get a value. The tracks with the lowest combined added numbers were of course the ones that were rated higher overall by all.
If someone didn't number all tracks (1 through 13), I took the ones they didn't number, and put them in order of how other people rated them.
Those who did # them, I added theirs together 1st, and then assigned the #s to the rest of the people's lists according to that.
In other words, if someone only numbered 5 of the 13 tracks. Whatever track was already highest among the others, was set to #6, and so on down.
So if you didn't bother to number them all, that's your fault for not following instructions, & allowed other people who did take the trouble to number them all, to have more influence about how to order those other tracks. LOL
For example, 2 people failed to assign a # to Eiger Weather & a couple other tracks, at all, so the will of everyone else who did number it, determined the # assignment it was given in their lists.
3 people rated Eiger Weather Change in their top 3.
And 2 people rated Eiger Weather Change as their #1 choice!!
Can you guess which 2 people rated Eiger Weather Change as their #1 choice? Just take a guess which 2 people!!
I bet you could guess one of them.. But the other you would probably laugh about if you knew!
Here was the end result, of adding all the polling together:
23 = Laguna Seca
32 = Eiger Nordwand Short Track Weather Change
36 = Nurburgring Nordschlife
38 = Mt Aso course creator track (short & available for all for practice)
41 = Indy Superspeedway
47 = Cape Ring North
53 = Nurburgring 24hr Weather Change
56 = Grand Valley East
56 = Circuito de Madrid
57 = Eiger Nordwand Track W Trail (dirt)
63 = High Speed Ring
66 = Dirt track course creator track (short & available for all for practice)
69 = London
32 = Eiger Nordwand Short Track Weather Change
36 = Nurburgring Nordschlife
38 = Mt Aso course creator track (short & available for all for practice)
41 = Indy Superspeedway
47 = Cape Ring North
53 = Nurburgring 24hr Weather Change
56 = Grand Valley East
56 = Circuito de Madrid
57 = Eiger Nordwand Track W Trail (dirt)
63 = High Speed Ring
66 = Dirt track course creator track (short & available for all for practice)
69 = London
As you can see, the top 6 most popular tracks from my polling are the 6 tracks included in this 6 race series.
The top 2 were set up to be 25-30 minute races.
The other 4 will be ballpark +/- 15 minute races.
I hope this gives everyone a better understanding how I decided these things.
I really did my best to please all parties interested, when organizing this race series. I did it in the most fair & mathematical way I could come up with. And mathematically, I did not give myself any more weight in the final decisions than anyone else I polled. I did the poll myself, & counted it in with all the others.
For the 1st race series, all the tracks included were included based on suggestions from interested parties. There were fewer of us then, so the decision was easier.
Perhaps with this full disclosure, you'll know how I work for the next time I send out a poll to organize a race.
And you'll be very careful to follow my polling instructions very specifically to make sure you get your most fair & detailed 2 cents in. hahaSimilar threads
