Triumph Spitfire Series #2

[jackargent]

Yeah. Was me JLawrence & wyvern... I'm afraid they showed me a clean pair of wheels. It was late Saturday night in the kingdom though & I must confess I would not have passed a breathalyser.

However I did extract some tuning tips from JL which have made a big difference... So watch out!

 

[JLawrence]

I did notice you getting a lot faster throughout the day Jack. Good stuff!

And I noticed something about the Eiger track. It tends to glitch in the rain.
Some of the time when it is raining the game seems to not recognize that there is supposed to be a lack in grip, hence why 1:21s and 22s are possible. When the lack of grip actually occurs you will notice your times drop dramatically, and top speeds in the corners being much lower. A 1:26 should be flying in those conditions.

I wish I had been using my capture card when I was experimenting with this so I could show you a video of what I mean, but for now you'll have to look for yourself.

 

[Jujubean]

I did notice you getting a lot faster throughout the day Jack. Good stuff!

And I noticed something about the Eiger track. It tends to glitch in the rain.
Some of the time when it is raining the game seems to not recognize that there is supposed to be a lack in grip, hence why 1:21s and 22s are possible. When the lack of grip actually occurs you will notice your times drop dramatically, and top speeds in the corners being much lower. A 1:26 should be flying in those conditions.

I wish I had been using my capture card when I was experimenting with this so I could show you a video of what I mean, but for now you'll have to look for yourself.

I was thinking the same thing. I was practicing at Eiger in the dry and I got something like 1:24.3-- Then I switched to wet and I got a 1:24.5--

I know I wasn't doing that well, and things felt awfully similar to before I switched it to rain. Who knows.

 

[JLawrence]

I was thinking the same thing. I was practicing at Eiger in the dry and I got something like 1:24.3-- Then I switched to wet and I got a 1:24.5--

I know I wasn't doing that well, and things felt awfully similar to before I switched it to rain. Who knows.

Watch your speed through the corners. Sometimes in the wet you can carry just as much because the game doesn't throw in the grip reduction.

 

[watermelon punch]

And I noticed something about the Eiger track. It tends to glitch in the rain.
Some of the time when it is raining the game seems to not recognize that there is supposed to be a lack in grip, hence why 1:21s and 22s are possible. When the lack of grip actually occurs you will notice your times drop dramatically, and top speeds in the corners being much lower. A 1:26 should be flying in those conditions.

It's not a glitch.

This is a wet track condition issue.

If you guys successfully completed your AMG Driving School (in Special Events Aspec) in wet conditions, and in particular, read the descriptions & tips provided in the wet condition driving school, you would understand what's going on here.

Not a glitch. It's a wet track.

 

[JLawrence]

It's not a glitch.

This is a wet track condition issue.

If you guys successfully completed your AMG Driving School in wet conditions, and in particular, read the descriptions & tips provided in the wet condition driving school, you would understand what's going on here.

Not a glitch. It's a wet track.

Why does the water not effect grip at all?
There is more to it than that

 

[watermelon punch]

Why does the water not effect grip at all?
There is more to it than that

Did you have the track grip set to REAL?


At any rate, the same things described in the AMG Driving School wet conditions, apply to ALL tracks, to a lesser degree, even when dry, when the track grip is set to REAL.

For example, when track grip is set to real... the driving line is always more grippy, than if you leave the driving line.

This is to I guess simulate track wear in the ideal line.
Parts of a track less driven are always less grippy (ie: more smooth).

On a wet track, the difference is more pronounced.

In Aspec, or with track grip set to "low" (which these descriptions obviously lost something in the translation from Japanese, IMHO)... basically there's NOT a big difference between the slippery-ness of different areas of a track, dependent upon their accumulated traffic over time.

I just highly recommend you go and read the descriptions & tips in the AMG Driving School (I think it's labeled "Advanced"), regarding wet track conditions... And it will give you a more full understanding of track grip physics modeled in the game to attempt to simulate real world conditions.

And again, it doesn't just apply to wet... It applies to the whole surface of all tracks (wet or dry) with track grip set to REAL... in differentiating most traveled line, as opposed to less grip on the track "edges" (ie: outside the most traveled line), and then even more the curbs which can be even more slippery... And then the grass that's even more slippery than that.

Keeping in mind if you're in Aspec, or with track grip set to LOW... these issues do not come into play UNLESS you're on a wet track.

And so with track grip set to REAL... the wet track is not much worse than when it's set to "low".
(This has been complained about before on this forum, I believe.)

But I think it's an exaggeration to say that in heavy rain, your grip on the driving line is just as good as it is on the dry track. It just seems that way because your grip is so bad on the "edges" (ie: outside the driving line), and that's what you're comparing it to at the time.

If you can get X lap time easily on the wet track... Then with some practice with the same car (same set-up same tires) - on the dry track, you should be able to push out the limits a bit more and get an even better time.

The truth is, sometimes when you're not getting a better time, it's because you're not pushing the limits far enough.
I'm not saying that's something you should do always in online racing, because it could mean you'll get a fantastic lap on lap 2, and then crash out 3 other cars when you spin out on your 3rd lap because you're driving sloppy & risky.
And of course it's not something you really can do regularly & confidently on the wet track, because the risk is therefore increased if you make a mistake.

 

[JLawrence]

I made sure it was on real. Wyvern and I both did some testing. There was absolutely no difference in the grip, which there is supposed to be in heavy rain (I had it set to fixed btw)

I think we should do a little further testing on this, but I am fairly certain that there is a hiccup in the system

 

[watermelon punch]

I made sure it was on real. Wyvern and I both did some testing. There was absolutely no difference in the grip, which there is supposed to be in heavy rain (I had it set to fixed btw)

I think we should do a little further testing on this, but I am fairly certain that there is a hiccup in the system

No difference in the grip as compared to what?

Also, were you in a pub lobby, or a lounge?

What were your settings for quality and mic?

I ask this because twice now in your pub lobby... I felt a DISTINCT difference in the car & track as compared to ALL my practices in my Lounge and RDAardvark's lounge and even I think Jujubean's lounge. (Though we didn't do much on Eiger in Jujubean's lounge.)

But I didn't just see the difference on Eiger, it was noticable on Eiger... but it was also noticeable on Mount TopMore.

So I have to think it has something to do with your settings.

Append:
I just thought of something... I have heard it mentioned that the higher you put the mic setting, the lower the connection for the actual game, and the more chance of latency, lag, and/or glitches.

I always set mic quality to low. I tried it once at "standard" when IMZIZ & you were having problems with the mics, and that's when Aceboy127 & AOK wound up having problems with "invisible cars", and I did notice some weird lag/latency on the track during the races.

And in your pub lobby Sat afternoon, there was tons of lag. Your car & jackargent's car, and the other guy's car were all herky jerky.
(I almost never have this problem.)

And, my brake points seemed to change on Mount TopMore and Eiger - significantly.

I'm going to say mic settings might be the issue.
I know you like to chat on the mic, so could it be that you're setting your pub lobby to a high mic quality?

Append again:

Also, I have read somewhere on this forum there's sometimes a glitch where settings don't "take" - you could wind up with tire wear or whatever not being what you want (so maybe it applies to the rain setting too?)... And to reset it to make it right, you need to "reload" the track that's loaded when you first open a lounge or lobby. I don't know if this applies in this case. But on the off chance it's a problem... Perhaps whatever you set the track to when you open the lounge or lobby, you should re-load the track. (If it's the same track, you would do this by loading another track, and then loading the track you want again after that.)

 

[watermelon punch]

I just want to emphasize how important it is, when practicing, to set things up as close as possible as to how it will be for the actual event.

First, the race event will be held in either my Lounge, or RDAardvark's lounge.

The QUALITY setting will be set to HIGH (or very high)
The MIC setting will be set to VERY LOW (minimum or maybe OFF)
So the ideal practice area would be a lounge set to those settings.

You should set these settings & restrictions:

108hp / 810kg
Sports Soft Tires
Skid Recovery Force OFF (aid disallowed)
Grip: REAL
Penalties: Weak
Damage: Off
Boost: Off
Tire Wear/Fuel: ON

If any one of these things is different when you're practicing, you may have a different experience when race event day arrives.

And you should always check your options before entering a track, and make sure aids are set to what you want them to be. (To avoid winding up feeling like you're driving a sofa, for instance. ;o)

And you should always always always clear your cache, before entering any online multiplayer race area. (Such as a lounge or pub lobby room, for racing or practice, regardless of whether or not you will be joined or alone.)

 

[JLawrence]

I haven't ever messed with any of the mic settings or any of that, but everything else was just like it will be for the actual race. Could the mic actually effect my braking points and the like?

And no difference as compared to the same track minus the weather

 

[watermelon punch]

I haven't ever messed with any of the mic settings or any of that, but everything else was just like it will be for the actual race. Could the mic actually effect my braking points and the like?

1) Were you in a pub lobby again?
(I ask because some people swear they see a difference... and I truly believe that's because different people set different settings for race quality & mic quality.)

2) What do you mean you never messed with any of the mic settings?
In your lounge, you have the option to set the race quality and mic quality. (I assumed you have this option when you open a pub lobby?)
Have you just never seen the option, or do you mean that you're leaving it at whatever is default? (Default may be standard or high for mic setting - so there could lie the problem.)

3) Why would lag & latency NOT effect your brake points & the like? If your inputs are even a fraction of a second off to what's going on in the race, on the screen, with the other cars... then yes, it would effect quite a bit if there's even a small lag. (Just think of how you're measuring lap times by fractions of a second. If in one of those fraction of a second, your timing is off because of lag... of course that's going to make a difference.)
So yes, if you jack up the mic quality to high - basically you're telling the game that the sound quality connection for the mics is more important than the connection for the game data. There's only so much that can pass through that internet pipe at the same time smoothly & consistently.

4) Are you using a wireless connection to the PS3?

5) Is there any other internet connections active & occupied on your internet line while you're racing? (Such as downloading or streaming video on a computer in your household at the same time you're in online racing.)

 

[JLawrence]

Is there a difference?
I just go to online and then click open lobby. I'm really not that adept with the ins and outs of this managerial stuff =p
And I've never noticed any of that? Where is it on the options thing?
It is wireless, and I never know when someone else is going to be doing something cause I don't live alone here.
Honestly I only host lobbies because no one else seems inclined to volunteer. I know most of you would be better for it than me.

 

[watermelon punch]

Honestly I only host lobbies because no one else seems inclined to volunteer. I know most of you would be better for it than me.

Yes, and that's great. I wish more people would volunteer.
And you only get better at it as you do it more!!
I only know the things I do from countless people giving me tips, and reading various threads on the forum about online issues, and just reading about other races that people are involved in.

You're having oddities occur when you host practice races? Well this is how we learn about the various things that can go wrong. That's what I'm finding out.
The whole "vision check" thing I decided is necessary after in one of the races I hosted, 2 participants couldn't see the other one's car.

I don't think there necessarily is a difference between a pub lobby & a private lounge, as long as they have the exact same exact settings.
But the thing about pub lobbies is that you never know what the settings were set to by the person who opens the room.

If it's you, you have some control.

When you go to open a lobby... A thing pops up, and you set various things. 2 of those things are "race quality" and "mic quality".
I think they are both set to "standard" as default... if you want them different, you must change them.

For your Lounge:
When you're on your GT Life home area. Go to the "options" button on the bottom left corner - I think it's right underneath the manual save button.
You will see options for "My Lounge Settings".
Go in there, and you can set your race quality & mic quality.

I have had the best experience so far with race quality set to high, and mic quality set at the lowest or somewhere at least less than standard.
(Some organized races actually completely disable mics for their races, to ensure the best possible connection maintained for all... I'm assuming they've decided to do this because they've found it actually helps.)

I prefer lounges for a couple of reasons.

First, I already have those preferred settings set.

Second, you don't have the distraction of strangers unfamiliar with what's going on just popping in.

Third, though I'd rather have the option to restrict settings commands to the host when it's preferred (had a problem with a youngster busting in, for instance). But generally, I like having the option that I don't have to be the host 100% of the time in my Lounge, and doing all the track changing & laps changing & starting the races during casual practices.
It's nice if someone can pop on that and load a new track while I'm making a personal pit stop or going to get a drink. Or instead of having to type in "ready" - the last person who would say "ready" just starts the race instead.
Anyway, when you're racing with people you know from here on the GTP forum, this kind of thing is nice. People I know from the forum, for instance, if they're in my lounge... They're not just going to suddenly change the restrictions & jump in with a ridiculous inappropriate car. LOL If they take the initiative to change the track, or start a race, they're not going to change the track in the middle of people hot lapping, and they're not going to start a race with half the people still in the tuning screen.
So hosting in your lounge can actually take some pressure off.
(Unless nobody steps up & takes any initiative, in which case then I just put the race start timer on, and let it ride! LOL)

RE: Wireless
I've never saw anyone post on this forum, "I switched to hard wire, and I'm switching back because wireless is so much better."
What I have seen people post is, "I got a cat 6 network cable to hook the ps3 to the internet router, and now I have far less problems with online racing!"
So, in short, hard wire is better.
If you must use wireless, you have to accept that you may not be having the same online racing experience as those of us with cat 6 cables stretched all about our living spaces.

RE: Others using the internet while you're racing
I realize that in many households, it would be impossible to control or predict the internet usage going on, plugging up your internet pipe while you're trying to race.
But I would say, IMHO, this is even more incentive to consider a hard wire connection, and especially carefully consider your mic quality settings and your mic usage, and be extra diligent in clearing your cache, if you want a decent online racing experience.

The best thing I can recommend is that you try loading the Eiger rain fixed track in your lounge with the mic setting really low (minimal or something), and see if you have the same phenomenon happen to you, with a track being grippy like it's dry.
Also try different settings for qualities, and see if your brake points change on a particular track, or the general "feel" of things is the same or different, depending on those quality & mic quality settings.

IMHO PSN has good & bad days too... And it seems it comes in waves. And that could certainly explain some oddities, I think.

 

[turbogeit]

So did anyone get together & practice tonight?



That sounds like great fun. Maybe we could have a post event fun race for this. Considering the length of the pit exit road, I'm quite sure everyone would drive very carefully!! haha.

Anyway, no it's not a typo. It's just as it says. 18 laps @ Eiger Nordwand Short Track Weather Change (rain/non-fixed)

The top determining factor in my decision was that the tracks that were the most popular among those polled would be the longest races.
I had sent out a poll to everyone involved in the last Spitfire series, as well as to a few people who were interested but didn't make the last event series simply because of scheduling.
I came up with a list of 13 tracks, based on suggestions from people in the last event series, and ones I was interested in.
Everyone assigned numbers to the tracks, in order from their favourite to their least desired track to be included.
I took everyone's listed #s for each track, & added them together to get a value. The tracks with the lowest combined added numbers were of course the ones that were rated higher overall by all.

If someone didn't number all tracks (1 through 13), I took the ones they didn't number, and put them in order of how other people rated them.
Those who did # them, I added theirs together 1st, and then assigned the #s to the rest of the people's lists according to that.
In other words, if someone only numbered 5 of the 13 tracks. Whatever track was already highest among the others, was set to #6, and so on down.

So if you didn't bother to number them all, that's your fault for not following instructions, & allowed other people who did take the trouble to number them all, to have more influence about how to order those other tracks. LOL
For example, 2 people failed to assign a # to Eiger Weather & a couple other tracks, at all, so the will of everyone else who did number it, determined the # assignment it was given in their lists.

3 people rated Eiger Weather Change in their top 3.

And 2 people rated Eiger Weather Change as their #1 choice!!

Can you guess which 2 people rated Eiger Weather Change as their #1 choice? Just take a guess which 2 people!!
I bet you could guess one of them.. But the other you would probably laugh about if you knew!

Here was the end result, of adding all the polling together:

23 = Laguna Seca
32 = Eiger Nordwand Short Track Weather Change
36 = Nurburgring Nordschlife
38 = Mt Aso course creator track (short & available for all for practice)
41 = Indy Superspeedway
47 = Cape Ring North
53 = Nurburgring 24hr Weather Change
56 = Grand Valley East
56 = Circuito de Madrid
57 = Eiger Nordwand Track W Trail (dirt)
63 = High Speed Ring
66 = Dirt track course creator track (short & available for all for practice)
69 = London​

As you can see, the top 6 most popular tracks from my polling are the 6 tracks included in this 6 race series.

The top 2 were set up to be 25-30 minute races.
The other 4 will be ballpark +/- 15 minute races.

I hope this gives everyone a better understanding how I decided these things.
I really did my best to please all parties interested, when organizing this race series. I did it in the most fair & mathematical way I could come up with. And mathematically, I did not give myself any more weight in the final decisions than anyone else I polled. I did the poll myself, & counted it in with all the others.

For the 1st race series, all the tracks included were included based on suggestions from interested parties. There were fewer of us then, so the decision was easier.

Perhaps with this full disclosure, you'll know how I work for the next time I send out a poll to organize a race. And you'll be very careful to follow my polling instructions very specifically to make sure you get your most fair & detailed 2 cents in. haha

Thanks for the clear explication, and for the great job. I must say your poll came on a moment I was very busy and indeed, I could have done better in following your instructions.

On the other hand, it has indeed sense to do a longer race in changing weather conditions. I remember a 20 minutes changing weather race with full damage a Monza, where we didn't get rain during the race. Frustration, because while reparing damage in lap 1, I decided to change tyres for the rain, which never came.

Concerning lag, connection problems, grip in the rain etc.: It has been reported and I have experienced also that there are sometimes grip differences. Some thoughts about that:

- Given to the limited capacity of internet connections and PS3 memory, it is better to put voice chat off.
- Whether penalty is on or off seems to make a difference to (with penalty on the system has to make extra calculations, what can make a difference if it is already at the limit of its capacities)
- I am 100% certain that grip is better when you are alone in your lounge then when there are 10-15 cars in it. I think that is linked also to the memory limits: I suspect the system to change to a less sophisticated calculation model when it gets close to its limits.
- In changing weather conditions, don't be surprised to have changes that are difficult to understand: that would be rather realistic: in real world racing its like that to.
- What is also clear, is that especially with premium cars, it should be avoided that too many cars are close to each other on the same section of the track. That is an argument for rolling starts, like they did in GT5 Prologue.

 

[watermelon punch]

Thank you kindly turbogeit for your input. I appreciate that you have had much more organizing experience than myself, and much more online racing experience than myself. So I welcome your sharing information & tips a lot!!

Thanks for the clear explication, and for the great job.[/B] I must say your poll came on a moment I was very busy and indeed, I could have done better in following your instructions.

I suspected that was the case for some. But of course I had to deal with the situation as it was, the best most fair way I could think of.
(I may come up with a better mathematical equation for next time, to better allow for "no comment" answers. )

On the other hand, it has indeed sense to do a longer race in changing weather conditions. I remember a 20 minutes changing weather race with full damage a Monza, where we didn't get rain during the race. Frustration, because while reparing damage in lap 1, I decided to change tyres for the rain, which never came.

That is indeed a big issue with changing weather.
If Eiger was lower in popularity, I would've made a shorter race, and fixed to rain. Since it was popular, I went with longer race & changing weather.
(Even though I myself would fair better in the race if it was fixed to rain always!!)
There will be no damage in this race, and tires will be the same restriction - sports soft, so there will be no pit stops... Unless someone's really that desperate for fresh tires to go through the hassle of the longest pit exit in the game. lol

- Given to the limited capacity of internet connections and PS3 memory, it is better to put voice chat off.

If it were just me... I would always have voice chat off for any scheduled races. But I sometimes feel hesitant to insist upon this, particularly in practice sessions, since I do not have a mic myself & never use one, and I notice that many people who do use mics often, see it very much as an integral part of their game experience. (In other words, I wonder if people would be very disappointed at not having the use of their mic.)

- Whether penalty is on or off seems to make a difference to (with penalty on the system has to make extra calculations, what can make a difference if it is already at the limit of its capacities

I have not heard this idea before!
More often than not, I'm in races that have penalties set to weak.
I have not noticed a difference with this setting myself.
Except to say that in a public lobby penalties on high seems to invite griefers, who know how to game the penalty system to their advantage. (IE: by knowing how to give other people penalties and use it to their advantage without getting a penalty themselves.)

My only interest in penalties on weak is to deter people from riding off-road or shorting the track.
In real racing, if you were to spin off the track... you would be expected to re-enter the track at the same point you left it.
In online races, I often see people fly off the track, and use a "grass mowing" technique, to maintain their speed & position. Or to fly back onto the track & cause other cars to wreck. This is improper, IMO. And on some tracks it can be penalized at least somewhat with penalties set to weak.
(For example, cutting the chicane on Cape Ring North, or on Laguna Seca, riding the grass at the last turn or riding down the sand on the corkscrew.)

- I am 100% certain that grip is better when you are alone in your lounge then when there are 10-15 cars in it. I think that is linked also to the memory limits: I suspect the system to change to a less sophisticated calculation model when it gets close to its limits.

I agree with this 100%.
I think the best racing experience is 12 cars or less.

I also suspect when someone with a full cache or spotty internet connection, joins a room, it can effect the experience of all in the track.

- In changing weather conditions, don't be surprised to have changes that are difficult to understand: that would be rather realistic: in real world racing its like that to.

Very true. On Eiger non-fixed rain... The track is sometimes unpredictable.
The timing is somewhat predictable, I have found "trends" with how the weather changes in a time frame. (There seem to be limited variables.)

But even within that... the actual conditions on the track vary within what it "looks like".
IE: The visual cues do not seem to tell a predictable story about the grip of the track.

- What is also clear, is that especially with premium cars, it should be avoided that too many cars are close to each other on the same section of the track.

I HAVE LONG SUSPECTED THIS!!!
I have noticed a trend of having better race experiences in races with ONLY standard cars.
And I have long suspected that I actually race better in standard cars!!

(And also most of the races I've been in with full grids have been shuffle races where connection is variable anyway... or NASCAR races, where there seems to be mostly rolling starts anyway.)

 

[diabolicwyvern]

That was quite good fun last night. With the last disconnect though, I hopped for dinner over more 1 on 1 racing with JLawrence. (whose quite fast)
I coould follow his lines all night long, but the 5 speed transmission was worthless. I'll tune up the racing transmission to match the optimal shift points for the automatic and should be able to give you a better run next time Apparently topping at 89/90 on the Ring was to my disadvantage!

For the first day with car though, it wasnt that bad once I sorted the suspension.

My Eiger 2 cents....Rain conditions + mic on = poor results. JL set up the room and left for a few minutes. I ran a few solo laps and got down to 1:22.101. He returned and we ran 15 laps together chatting in up along the way. Every 3 or 4 laps, one of us would stuff it in the same corner (following the exact same line no less) We'd give the car some gas a bit early and veer off to the left with flair! He did end up running .5 seconds faster than me, but its the averages that get me. I was running consistently between 1:22.8xx and 1:24 flat on clean laps which is a big gap. The grip was very inconsistent. At one point I think I ran low 1:22 and the very next lap (without incident) was a high 1:24. Over the course of 18 laps, I think we can expect each person to have 10-12 normal laps and 6-8 WTF laps! I'm quite looking forward to it though.

 

[watermelon punch]

Geez, the more I hear the more convinced I am it will be better to have mics disabled for the races.
Regardless, I think sticking to having the mics set to very low or even minimal for practices is a good idea, if people want to use mics.
Mostly in my Lounge with the mic quality set to low, the mics are generally audible enough to be useful. The only issue I've had with that is that I will say it makes it harder to distinguish similar toned voices, so I might not recognize their voices as well. But otherwise I think it's been okay. Though I will admit, most of the people I'm thinking of, are not particularly chatty on the mics anyway.

Averaging 1:22 - 1:24 for mostly clean laps on Eiger wet is not bad times at all, IMHO.
I rarely do any much better than that on most laps. I'm not saying I'm the fastest most experienced racer around. But I think I'm a little better than complete rubbish in the Spitfire on Eiger in the rain, and I have done a fair amount of practicing there.

I really think no matter if the rain is set to fixed or non-fixed, it should not be surprising for changes in grip, even in the same places, over the course of several laps.
Rain in the game is supposed to mimic what it's like when it really does rain. Rain & water run-off is never absolutely consistent. It shouldn't be. So I think when the rain is set to fixed... It's just that it rains consistently as opposed to the rain clearing up. Not that it rains at the same rate consistently. It's just raining heavily the entire time, with no chance of it stopping.

I think sometimes differences can be accounted for by the fact that no matter how much of a groove one gets into, and no matter how consistent one is about following the same line... it's really impossible to say you can get all your tires in the same exact places on every lap. If you're human & not a machine, even the best most experienced drivers make errors sometimes, even if they're tiny ones. And I think the Spitfire is particularly sensitive to tiny changes. It's somewhat touchy in handling, and it wouldn't be crazy to suggest that one of the wheels may have been just slightly off the line.

I think of this issue... And I'm almost positive I'm not the only one who experiences this. On any track, if I do one lap, where I get a corner where I go round like stink & the car stays put very well... On the next lap, that definitely influences my desire to try & push it a little bit more on that corner. Sometimes I think I do it without thinking of it consciously.
If you do this in the rain, it's far more risky than doing that on a dry track.

I think this is why I do better in the rain actually... Because I'm not ordinarily very good at hitting the same lines on every lap anyway... So I think generally because I tend to be off the driving line occasionally as a general rule, I'm not so surprised when it happens, as say someone who's very practiced at following the same exact line in the same exact way & braking at the same exact point in the same exact way, on every lap.
I think this is also why I do better lap times in the end, in an actual race, than I can do as a hot lap by myself. Because my tuning & practice is for online racing, not hot lapping. My focus from the get-go in online racing, has been to focus on being able to be fluid & flexible, when there's other cars about me on the track. Because it's rare for me to be out in front in 1st & able to do clean perfect laps. You can't do hot laps during races if you've usually got someone in front of you, and/or people right behind you looking for opportunities to pass. And that's what I plan for when preparing for an online race.

 

[ID_racing]

-about mics..its "interesting" to participate in an open-mic night race. You can unwillingly be witness to everything from screaming children, pizza-eating, phones ringing to someone with a absolut determination to tell some mate every small detail in the race.
Makes me wish I had a mic so I could tell the people to s*** the **** up!!!

 

[JLawrence]

I really think no matter if the rain is set to fixed or non-fixed, it should not be surprising for changes in grip, even in the same places, over the course of several laps.
Rain in the game is supposed to mimic what it's like when it really does rain. Rain & water run-off is never absolutely consistent. It shouldn't be. So I think when the rain is set to fixed... It's just that it rains consistently as opposed to the rain clearing up. Not that it rains at the same rate consistently. It's just raining heavily the entire time, with no chance of it stopping.

I'll have to try the mic thing because I know for a fact that wasn't right.

 

[watermelon punch]

I'll have to try the mic thing because I know for a fact that wasn't right.

Know for a fact what isn't right?
I'm really trying to narrow down what you're describing, but I need more information, more specifics.

Are you saying that inconsistencies in grip during wet raining conditions is not supposed to happen? And that you think it's just a glitch when in rainy conditions, the grip level changes from lap to lap?
Because I know for a fact that should be expected in rainy conditions, and especially when the rain starts to clear up, or rain starts to come on heavier.

Or are you saying that what I'm describing is not what you experienced at all???

 

[JLawrence]

I experience no variation in grip at all from fixed rain to unfixed to dry from time to time on that track.

I've raced in the rain in my '63, so I have a pretty decent understanding of what wet weather driving feels like, and that wasn't it. Now, once or twice when I was switching back and forth it did kick in, like when you and Jack were in the lobby with me and I couldn't keep the car in a straight line.

 

[watermelon punch]

I experience no variation in grip at all from fixed rain to unfixed to dry from time to time on that track.

I've raced in the rain in my '63, so I have a pretty decent understanding of what wet weather driving feels like, and that wasn't it. Now, once or twice when I was switching back and forth it did kick in, like when you and Jack were in the lobby with me and I couldn't keep the car in a straight line.

So you're saying you've had the situation that where you changed it from sunny to rain, and the grip was exactly like it was still fixed sunny weather condition?
And you could drive all over the track just like it's dry, even though it looked like it was raining?
Am I describing this correctly?

Here's something that I mentioned before:

Also, I have read somewhere on this forum there's sometimes a glitch where settings don't "take" - you could wind up with tire wear or whatever not being what you want (so maybe it applies to the rain setting too?)... And to reset it to make it right, you need to "reload" the track that's loaded when you first open a lounge or lobby. I don't know if this applies in this case. But on the off chance it's a problem... Perhaps whatever you set the track to when you open the lounge or lobby, you should re-load the track. (If it's the same track, you would do this by loading another track, and then loading the track you want again after that.)

What I read happens is that someone loads the lobby or lounge, with the pre-set track choice.

So in your lounge, you would have a particular track set to load automatically when you load the lounge.

Or when you open a pub lobby room, in the same pop-up where you set your mic settings, you choose the track that will load when you load the lobby.

What I've read reported is that the track loading properly & the settings working as they should, is more consistent and successful if instead of just using the track that loaded when you loaded the lobby... If you RE-LOAD a track after the lobby has loaded & you're already inside the room.

Does this make sense? (Not sure if I'm explaining this clearly.)

I'll try to give instructions to illustrate what I mean:

You set your "options" for your lounge first. Choose whatever track. Say Tsukuba. So that when you then load your lounge, Tsukuba will be the track to show up when you load into your lounge.

You would then go and change the track to Eiger Nordwand Short Track Weather Change.
When it loads, then you go in and set it to Rain.

Alternatively, if in your lounge options, you have it set to load Eiger Nordwand Short Track Weather Change...
When you load into your lounge, and you're there in the room, and the track is loaded.
DO NOT go immediately into this track.
Instead, load a DIFFERENT track. Such as Tsukuba or Autumn Ring or whatever.
Wait for that to load.
Then, go in and change the track again, and choose Eiger Nordwand Short Track Weather Change.
Then when it loads, set it to Rain.

OR, if you're doing this in a pub lobby, your method would be similar.
You go to create the lobby.
In the pop up box, you choose your quality settings, and the track to be loaded.
You choose something other than Eiger Nordwand Short Track Weather Change. Say Autumn Ring.
The lobby loads, and the track loads as Autumn Ring (or whatever you chose).
After it's finished loading, and you're in your lobby with the track fully loaded... THEN, you load Eiger Nordwand Short Track Weather Change.
And then when that's loaded, you change it to rain.

I hope this makes sense.

Basically the idea is that loading the track at the same time you're loading the actual lounge or lobby, may be causing the track not to load properly.

And you may get a better result when you load the track after the lobby or lounge has already been loaded.

I don't know if this issue could account for the situation you had.
Because I don't know if you were having this problem specifically when you'd loaded the track originally when loading the actual lobby/lounge.

But I think it's a good place to start in trying to prevent the problem.

And from now on, I think I'm going to use the method I just described, as a prophylactic measure. Being that I've already seen posts on this forum saying there might be something not going properly about the track loading when it's the track that's loaded while creating & loading the actual room.

 

[watermelon punch]

UNSCHEDULED PRACTICE

RIGHT NOW IN MY LOUNGE

)

 

[jackargent]

I suppose the most important thing is ... when it comes to the night of the race we will all be on the same track with the same conditions so it will be a level playing field - & whatever hot lap you've been able to run in the past will count for nothing .

Personally, I like to think I can adapt to any track conditions ... by being consistently just off the pace whatever the weather!!!

On the subject of wireless connection speed which featured in an earlier chapter - I did a little experiment today. My ps3 connection is wireless & I don't generally experience any major issues ( yes I know Watermelon- I haven't hosted any practice sessions) My broadband is pretty fast (I think) which probably goes a long way to explain that.

Typically I will have the PS3, a netbook & a mobile phone all sharing the wireless connection with a pc taking it down the wire.

A couple of times today I have run a connection speed test on the PS3 with all these on & then turned them off - this improved download speed by up to 2Mbps so that is certainly worth bearing in mind.

roll on the race

 

[RDAardvark]

I've not really noticed lag or anything on the practise session I held or on fun racers. Last outing at fun racers I think I had 11 of us racing with mics at normal. Race quality was also set to normal.

However the one thing I hate about mics is people chuntering away during qualifying. It is really off-puting. That said, I think mics do have their place in that you can say to someone that you are approaching (especially if they have damage or about to be lapped). Likewise if you do have damage you can say 'pass me on the left' to those behind you. Otherwise I think Mic silence should he observed. Mind you, I'm one to talk - swearing away at my own ineptitude!

 

[JLawrence]

I don't know what the problem with my internet is... I keep getting disconnected from the server. Hopefully come race day that won't happen *fingers crossed*

Well, it looks like we are having a little bit of a disagreement on the penalty system in the race.
Let me explain here what it was I was referring to. In that particular instance that got me annoyed I overcooked it a little bit around a corner and slid outside. I dropped two tires off track, but managed to keep the car out of the wall. I wasn't trying to cut time, just keep from spinning and being passed. But anyways, because of that I was hit with a penalty and my car basically stopped moving. I completely understand the purpose of penalties, to stop unnecessary contact, and people trying to cut the track (like the Corkscrew on Laguna), but you have to think, say you are bunched together (like we were in Eiger) and one driver goes a little too far wide, or messes up slightly, they'll be hit with a penalty and basically get knocked out of the running. In the real world they would either recover or spin out on their own. I personally just don't see the fairness in that. That's all I was trying to say.

 

[diabolicwyvern]

 

[jackargent]

I don't know what the problem with my internet is... I keep getting disconnected from the server. Hopefully come race day that won't happen *fingers crossed*

Well, it looks like we are having a little bit of a disagreement on the penalty system in the race.
Let me explain here what it was I was referring to. In that particular instance that got me annoyed I overcooked it a little bit around a corner and slid outside. I dropped two tires off track, but managed to keep the car out of the wall. I wasn't trying to cut time, just keep from spinning and being passed. But anyways, because of that I was hit with a penalty and my car basically stopped moving. I completely understand the purpose of penalties, to stop unnecessary contact, and people trying to cut the track (like the Corkscrew on Laguna), but you have to think, say you are bunched together (like we were in Eiger) and one driver goes a little too far wide, or messes up slightly, they'll be hit with a penalty and basically get knocked out of the running. In the real world they would either recover or spin out on their own. I personally just don't see the fairness in that. That's all I was trying to say.

I don't really have a problem with penalties... sure they're a bit arbitrary & I can get as annoyed as the next guy if I'm penalised unfairly but the alternative is to let people drive over grass & bounce off walls & actually gain out of it. Personally I think having penalties is easily the lesser of 2 evils.

The game isn't perfect as has been exhaustively discussed in these forums. We just have to make the best of it. A bit like life really.

Roll on the race!

 

[JLawrence]

I was going to suggest damage be instated as an alternative myself.