Tuner Garages

[Kent]

Hey guys!
Congrats on your 350 challenge work!
I'm sure the final results will go up shortly (with in a few days).

That said, who's ready for another?
I bet a touge 200 or touge 280 would be fun (not to mention a Touge Max!).
Let me know what the interest levels are and we may see something happen soon! 👍

 

[Serge.D]

Is the next Touge Challenge in Citta Di Aria or on an other track?
The set-upp for my MR2 G-Limited that i did was on Midfield Raceway because i did not know it for Cita Di Aria.

serge

 

[Diego440]

as some point it was determined that the ultimate touge-style track was Citta di Aria, so all tuning and adjustments should be made for that track.

 

[Kent]

Is the next Touge Challenge in Citta Di Aria or on an other track?
The set-upp for my MR2 G-Limited that i did was on Midfield Raceway because i did not know it for Cita Di Aria.

serge

Welcome to a Best Motoring Touge Showdown inspired tuning contest.

Track: Citti d Aria (normal).

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showpost.php?p=2679681&postcount=1

Sorry to hear that you didn't prepare for a Citti di Aria race. That's probably got a great deal to do with your MR2's performance (even though I thought it wasn't bad).

That said, I'm not sure if the next go-round will be at Citti Di Aria... That depends on what category would be run. If we did something like the 200 class I wouldn't mind taking it to a shorter track. If we did something in the Max class I would like to see us go to a large track with more room for error (citti di aria is tough but fun).

Let me know what you all would like to do for the next event, assuming we run one!

 

[Leonidae]

I have few tasty cars for Touge 200/280 class already. and the track could be Autumn ring, IMHO.

 

[Hugo Boss]

I'm willing to take part too, Kent. I'm back into GT Mode and really enjoy to tune the cars like they should have set up by PD in the first place.

The next two weeks I have limited time, but from then on I can focus more on this. Citta is a great track for this challenge, since it's one of the most difficult tracks to find a good setting for.

Grand Valley Speedway is also a nice track for this. With all those long high speed corners it's challenging to find a setup that provides high cornering speeds. On the other hand, you can also go for a drift setup. Lots of possibilities there.

 

[Diego440]

This has probably been asked before, but how about Costa di Amalfi and/or Trial Mountain?

 

[Nicknamealguem]

My first thought was Costa di Amalfi, but fore that curse, its better a more higher class (like 300).
For the 200/280 class, it’s better a not so long course, and not to ample. I think (for the 200/280 class) Seoul it’s a good course or Cote de Azure 👍 that is a VERY thouge course (for me its thouger than Citta di Aria (and who sais Citta is a thouge course??? For me it’s one of the more accessible to drive))
And please…no more Citta di Aria…because one time was enough …

 

[Diego440]

I'd support Monaco 👍 Seoul is too straight for my taste... I wouldn't dare compare it to a Touge course.

 

[Serge.D]

200/280 class:
Infineon Raceway Stock.
Twin Ring Motegi Road.
Tsukuba.

 

[Nicknamealguem]

Do you all want something very but VERY touge to tune and to judge? The Rally!!!
I think that would make a hard TOUGE and fun challenge…

 

[Kent]

I hate to sound like a jerk but I didn't really ask you guys which track.
I asked which class.

With this kind of interest it will surely go down (and on a track that is fitting). However, I'd like to do a class that will be fun for the people testing as well as interesting for the tuners.

So, what do you all think? Seems a few of you are interested in a 280 class but that seems limited in the number of possible cars. Would probably end up being a battle between the S2000 and the MR2 (the MR2 is amazing with 280hp). 👍

So yeah, what do you all think?
High hp or low hp?

 

[Nicknamealguem]

I hate to sound like a jerk but I didn't really ask you guys which track.
I asked which class.

You are right…, it was all a misunderstood

So yeah, what do you all think?
High hp or low hp?

Hmmm, that is a hard one…I think low hp will be best in this one...

 

[Leonidae]

low HP race would be a difficult one, since the speeds would be so low that inertia couldn't effect too much on the traction. I vote 280bhp class.

 

[azevedojose]

I vote for the low hp class 👍

 

[Serge.D]

I vote for the low hp class 👍

Same for me,we just had the 350hp class.

 

[Nicknamealguem]

The Rugged Sport Coupe is a pure concept vehicle. The RSC combines a sporty two-plus-two car body with four-wheel drive hardware and styling cues that result in a fresh variation on "rugged vehicle" thinking. The fuselage body design combines muscular wheel flares with edgy mechanical forms that communicates a built-for-abuse durability. The look is assembled or constructed, rather than organic.

Summary of the car:
Car: Toyota RSC;
Colour: Olive Green;
Year: 2001;
Drive train: 4WD;
Dimensions: 4115x1850x1550;
Mass: 1228Kg;
Engine Type: (?);
Displacement: (?);
Power: 349(?)/(?);
Torque: (?).

Tuning Parts
CAR > Prize
Racing Exhaust
Racing Brakes
Brake Controller
Stage 1 NA
Port Polish
Engine Balance
Racing Chip
Semi Racing Suspension
Fully Customisable Transmission
Twin Clutch
Racing Flywheel
Variable LSD
Sport Soft Tyres
Weight Reduction Stage 1

Total Spent: 76.000Cr.

Settings:
Break Balance Controller: 7 / 14
Suspension:

Spring Rate: 5.0 / 4.5
Ride Height: 170 / 170
Damper: 8 / 8
Camber Angle: 1.5 / 1.0​

LSD:

LSD Initial Torque: 20 / 20
LSD Acceleration: 60 / 60
LSD Deceleration: 10 / 10​

Transmission:

1st Gear: 3.663
2nd Gear: 2.607
3rd Gear: 1.967
4th Gear: 1.550
5th Gear: 1.217
6th Gear: 0.960
Final: 4.285
Auto: 5​

NO DRIVING AIDS (0/0/0)

Top Speed:

This car was tested and tune on: Citta di Aria:

Reviews:

From what I've been able to learn from Touge driving, a lot of sliding (drifting and powersliding) is involved, and always within the borders of control. With that said, out of all the cars tested, this one was the least unpredictable, yet I could confidently throw it around the curves, and despite sliding a bit too much on the front end, I felt more inclined to do so again.

The gears are pretty close, and to me that gives mroe points than a car with wider gears, but I give it points because at no point did I hit the rev limiter and I think the gears were perfectly spaced for such a twisting course. I was never underpowered and always with a good amount of gearbox power.

Very well tuned (...). Understeer during acceleration was an issue but with proper driving technique the understeer could be overcome. The brake balance controller was well adjusted for excellent turn-in during braking but that also made it possible to lose control of the vehicle in an instant if the driver was to ease up for a moment.

 

[Kent]

Well...
Let's assume we are going to go with low HP for the next challenge.

Which would you all rather attempt?
Touge 200 or Touge 280?

Personally, I'd rather see Touge 280 although I really would enjoy running FF vs FR vs MR.
Thing is... At 200 there are only so many cars capable of running... At 280 even the 200+hp Honda Civics and Integras would have a chance to get in on the fun. 👍

 

[azevedojose]

Since the first was Touge 350, why not Touge 250??? Just a thought 💡

 

[Leonidae]

250 sounds nice. At that hp rating some FWD's can still do somewhat well.

 

[Diego440]

The issue with it being 250 is that it might get a mix of FF and FRs, in which FRs will most likely have the advantage. Hence, 280 makes it almost exclusive of Rear wheel drives. And 200 will make it very likely to be FFs

 

[Kent]

Personally, I'd love to see a mix of FF and FR.
Since the grading is subjective there is no doubt in my mind that a FF could take the overall title simply because speed isn't everything.
That said, a FF will have to be very well tuned to achieve handling enjoyable enough to keep up with even an average FR... Then on top of that, most people don't see FF the way I do- I enjoy driving FF cars in GT and wish there were better racing series to enter with FFs. Problem is, most people don't like FF and so it would be a real test of tuning skill as well as a gamble for any tuner to use a FF. Even worse is the fact that a FF entry would require great skill on the behalf of the judge to ensure the car was driven properly.

In any case, I think the 200hp class would still be just as dominated by RWD as the 280 class. Cars like the AZ-1 and MRS would easily take the win with most judges (including myself) unless there was an amazing FF (which is extremely difficult to create).

So with all that said...
I'd like to think a 250 class could be interesting.
Problem is, 250 doesn't leave any room for tuning on cars like the S2000.
I'd really like to see a diverse selection with FF running against FR. It's always been a fascination of mine to see what it takes for FF to run with FR. In fact, that's always been one of my biggest complaints with GT games... In general FF doesn't keep up with FR. However, under specific circumstances it is possible for FF to keep up (example... Jun Prelude in BM's Touge 280 showdown).

Btw, If 250 was the class used, my Euro Accord R (in this thread) would easily take the win.

 

[Diego440]

Which begs the question, is it possible to recreate the Jun Prelude in GT4?

I think an FF-FR battle would be good... d'you think something like that could be achieved? Like instead of limiting it in HP for every model, do something like 250hp limit for FF and 200hp limit for FR, and battle among them? Just a thought anyhow.

I aagree that there are many good FFs in GT4, and some of which could really fare very well in a Touge style race, even against FRs... question is, would R3s tyres be allowed? It would be a good way to level the field for FF-FR, since in GT4 FF cars tend to squeal a lot.

Oh well, I'm off to dinner.

 

[Kent]

Which begs the question, is it possible to recreate the Jun Prelude in GT4?

I think an FF-FR battle would be good... d'you think something like that could be achieved? Like instead of limiting it in HP for every model, do something like 250hp limit for FF and 200hp limit for FR, and battle among them? Just a thought anyhow.

I aagree that there are many good FFs in GT4, and some of which could really fare very well in a Touge style race, even against FRs... question is, would R3s tyres be allowed? It would be a good way to level the field for FF-FR, since in GT4 FF cars tend to squeal a lot.

Oh well, I'm off to dinner.

That's a very good set of questions.
I've played with the idea of using different tires on FR and FF but never found a match that would even-out the field. Of course, I've never tried using R3 vs S3, I've always gone with a comparison of N to S.
With that in mind, I'm going to spend some time tonight working on this idea.

Also, regarding the Jun Prelude... I'm not really sure if it is possible or not. The problem is, to properly recreate the car (regardless of the parts used) it would have to be capable of running fast enough to keep up (respectively) with these results...
(results as shown in the 280 touge showdown...)
14.095 Amuse R1
14.353 Jun Prelude
14.457 MCR S2000
14.758 G'Spice Altezza
14.815 K-One Integra R
14.971 Spoon Civic R
(refferenced the video from my personal collection of racing videos )

Just looking at that it is obvious that a well tuned FF can keep up. Problem is, in GT4 it is nearly impossible... How close to impossible, I will find out over the next day!

Back as soon as I've got some results.
In the mean time, let me know what you all think about the idea of a 280 challenge.
Would allowing a wider selection of tires entice any more tuners to make submissions?

 

[Diego440]

Just a final thought on that, how would R1 for FR cars vs. R3 for FF fare... or S1 vs. S3s? That's how I was thinking, actually. Just something to keep in mind, which I think, would entice a few members into joining.

 

[Nicknamealguem]

First of all, I think that a Touge 250 would be good.👍

Second, I think limitations should be equal to everyone, not everyone are going to choose FR’s or FF’s, it could be people that want to chose (I don’t know) a RR, 4WD…if, of curse, you are planning a Touge battle between FF and FR (Touge FF250HP vs. FR200HP).

Third…

Problem is, most people don't like FF and so it would be a real test of tuning skill as well as a gamble for any tuner to use a FF. Even worse is the fact that a FF entry would require great skill on the behalf of the judge to ensure the car was driven properly.

Also, regarding the Jun Prelude... I'm not really sure if it is possible or not. The problem is, to properly recreate the car (regardless of the parts used) it would have to be capable of running fast enough to keep up (respectively) with these results...
(results as shown in the 280 touge showdown...)
14.095 Amuse R1
14.353 Jun Prelude
14.457 MCR S2000
14.758 G'Spice Altezza
14.815 K-One Integra R
14.971 Spoon Civic R
(refferenced the video from my personal collection of racing videos )

Hmmm...sounds like a challenge…and I like challenges, especially the hard ones…

 

[Kent]

First of all, I think that a Touge 250 would be good.👍
Second, I think limitations should be equal to everyone, not everyone are going to choose FR’s or FF’s, it could be people that want to chose (I don’t know) a RR, 4WD…if, of curse, you are planning a Touge battle between FF and FR (Touge FF250HP vs. FR200HP).

Third…

Hmmm...sounds like a challenge…and I like challenges, especially the hard ones…

Well guys, I did exactly as I said and put in a bunch of time running FF and FR to see if anything could match up.
There's good news and bad news...
The bad news first: It's not easy to match up FF and FR. FR's advantage is incredible in GT4.
The good news: I found what seemed like an equalizer... R3 tires on FF and S3 tires on FR. The Amuse R1 was running nearly identical times to a 280 FF of mine on Motorland.

Admitedly, the FF was a little less exciting to drive thanks to the rediculus grip and lack of wheel spin but none the less, the cars seemed to match each other very well. 👍

At this point I still haven't tested what sort of HP difference would be needed to even-out the competition but at this time I'm inclined to say Racing tires vs Sports tires is the best way to even out the two.

With that said... Let me ask...
If there was a Touge 250 challenge what kind of FR, MR, and AWD cars could be used? (I know there are a great number of good FF cars to use )

 

[Nicknamealguem]

What kind? Like, the cars names?

 

[Diego440]

I tuned a Daihatsu Move to the point it can outhandle a Subaru Impreza and a Lancer Evo 7 in George V Paris

I'd say cars which have a stock power of around 200hp... so it might be most Silvias and similarly powered FRs. Smaller MRs and large-ish 4WDs? I'm not sure about the MRs and 4WDs, I'm just throwing ideas here.

 

[Kent]

Specifically, I meant what kinds of cars (by name) would be good for a 250 category?
I ask this not because I'm looking to give anyone a jump on the competition (not to say we will do a 250), I ask this because I'm interested to know what would be availible to the tuners.
I don't want to give them a category where there are only a couple of viable options.

That alone is a major part of why I'm not hot on the idea of a Touge 250 showdown (that and I would be inclined to drop my Euro-R Accord into the mix).

So, with that said, I go back to the question...
What models would be availible in a Touge 250 Showdown? (obviously a stock engine S2000 without oil change and some of the Silvias but what else)