Tuner Garages
- Thread starter Kent
- 2,497 comments
- 227,297 views
- 919
It didn't occur to me until now that I could test FF also ... durrrrrh. Count me in!
- 8,191
- Southern Louisiana
- GTP_Kent
Tuner Challenge v2 RWD Scores
Tested at Trial Mountain (forward), highspeed sections just after the start/finish line, medium speed sections between rocky walls, low speed sections near the end of the course, and a mixed track surface made this an excellent test ground for RWD cars.
Lap Times
1'22.6 Nd 4 holden spd's Cien
1'25.9 Leonidae's 350Z
1'28.4 CraftyLandShark's S2000
1'29.6 Hemisport15's Clio
1'30.6 GreyCap's NSX-R
1'31.7 RotaryJunkie's RX-8
1'34.7 KiwiBoy's E55
1'37.6 CircleCenter's 2000GT
8th Place: KiwiBoy’s E55, Score- 69
Understeer and wheel spin.
Quick reflexes and good static grip were the best qualities in this unique tuner. Laps could be run on the proper line at a relatively good speed when proper attention was given to the characteristics of the vehicle. However, understeer was bad at any speed too fast to spin the rear wheels. Further, the suspension seemed to act very poorly under any stress (hills, rumble strips, etc) and ruined traction accordingly. Potential for overcoming the serious flaws kept this car from earning a failing score but generally speaking, the car needs work.
7th Place: Hemisport15’s Clio, Score- 77
Great potential.
I found this car always kept me from fully realizing the potential for great laps. Oversteer ruled this car’s behavior (as expected and not necessarily a bad thing). On acceleration the grip and turning were excellent (really top-notch). On deceleration the car was nearly horrible. Doing all of the braking in a straight line was the only assurance of control. With better brake balance and downforce distribution this car could have been a very serious contender. The Clio was a very brave move by the tuner and further development will surely yield great results. However, in this iteration the Clio’s faults were too great.
6th Place: Nd 4 Holden Spd’s Cien, Score- 79
A class of its own.
This 800hp beast was ridiculously fast. With far more potential in the base car, the downforce, power, and grip of the Cien contributed greatly to a respectable score. However, the handling was very touchy and understeer (though mild) was present in medium speed driving. The twitchy handling and constant threat of wheel spin hurt this car’s score more than the incredible power and grip could help. At low speeds where the twitchy handling worked well for such a big car, the power would create wheel spin. At high speeds where the power could be harnessed, the twitchy handling nearly ruined the benefits of high grip and power. This car is a prime example of the potential a supercar holds as a tuner.
5th Place: GreyCap’s NSX-R, Score- 80
A great standard.
Problems with weight transfer during technical sections and high-speed sections made quick changes of direction difficult. This car seemed to over commit in each turn making it difficult to maneuver. The quick initial reactions were negated by the MR layout’s tendency to turn poorly without weight on the front tires. Also hurting the score was the lack of downforce, which was apparent when coming out of the bumpy high-speed sections found at Trial Mountain. None the less, an amazing NA engine, great balance, and great tuning capitalized on the potential of the NSX-R creating an excellent standard for tuned cars.
4th Place: RotoryJunkie’s RX-8, Score- 82
Handling before speed.
Grip was surprisingly high for a car with no GT Wing. The handling was sharp and predictable but not twitchy. Turning was good and wheel spin was never a problem. However, the low torque output seemed to contribute to poor turning in longer turns. With more grunt and more downforce the RX8 would have been a contender for the top spot. However, as presented, this car did not fully use the potential of a 400hp RX-8 and that wasted potential hurt this car's final score.
3rd Place: Leonidae’s 350Z, Score- 83
Speed over handling.
The speed of this car blew me away. However, the handling was very touchy. Quick reflexes felt twitchy and power oversteer came out as wheelspin. There was a fine line between perfect power oversteer and wheelspin. Walking that line, combined with great lift-off turning made this car an excellent hotlap tuner. Unfortunately, the unpredictable nature of the twitchy handling made this car frustrating at times and generally less enjoyable than it’s slower, more consistent competition.
2nd Place: CirclesCenter’s 2000GT, Score- 85
Awesome handling.
Turn-in was good and oversteer was very controllable. The 2000GT always felt like it could turn more and handle nearly any line desired- understeer was hard to find. Even though the car felt slightly underpowered compared to the test group, the actual performance was respectable. This was easily one of my favorites due to the great handling through technical sections and great turning at any speed. The only suggestion to improve this car would be added downforce for better grip in highspeed sections.
1st Place: CraftyLandShark’s S2000, Score- 92
The total package.
Great job with the tuning here. Plenty of grip, tons of easily controlled oversteer, no understeer, and amazingly quick reflexes, this car is clearly an excellent tuner. Despite the incredibly quick reflexes, the steering never felt twitchy and the oversteer never snapped back. The oversteer was ideal and serves as an excellent example of the difference between drift-like oversteer and sports car oversteer. All around this was a great car with excellent tuning applied to a very capable platform (the S2000).
Tested at Trial Mountain (forward), highspeed sections just after the start/finish line, medium speed sections between rocky walls, low speed sections near the end of the course, and a mixed track surface made this an excellent test ground for RWD cars.
Lap Times
1'22.6 Nd 4 holden spd's Cien
1'25.9 Leonidae's 350Z
1'28.4 CraftyLandShark's S2000
1'29.6 Hemisport15's Clio
1'30.6 GreyCap's NSX-R
1'31.7 RotaryJunkie's RX-8
1'34.7 KiwiBoy's E55
1'37.6 CircleCenter's 2000GT
8th Place: KiwiBoy’s E55, Score- 69
Understeer and wheel spin.
Quick reflexes and good static grip were the best qualities in this unique tuner. Laps could be run on the proper line at a relatively good speed when proper attention was given to the characteristics of the vehicle. However, understeer was bad at any speed too fast to spin the rear wheels. Further, the suspension seemed to act very poorly under any stress (hills, rumble strips, etc) and ruined traction accordingly. Potential for overcoming the serious flaws kept this car from earning a failing score but generally speaking, the car needs work.
7th Place: Hemisport15’s Clio, Score- 77
Great potential.
I found this car always kept me from fully realizing the potential for great laps. Oversteer ruled this car’s behavior (as expected and not necessarily a bad thing). On acceleration the grip and turning were excellent (really top-notch). On deceleration the car was nearly horrible. Doing all of the braking in a straight line was the only assurance of control. With better brake balance and downforce distribution this car could have been a very serious contender. The Clio was a very brave move by the tuner and further development will surely yield great results. However, in this iteration the Clio’s faults were too great.
6th Place: Nd 4 Holden Spd’s Cien, Score- 79
A class of its own.
This 800hp beast was ridiculously fast. With far more potential in the base car, the downforce, power, and grip of the Cien contributed greatly to a respectable score. However, the handling was very touchy and understeer (though mild) was present in medium speed driving. The twitchy handling and constant threat of wheel spin hurt this car’s score more than the incredible power and grip could help. At low speeds where the twitchy handling worked well for such a big car, the power would create wheel spin. At high speeds where the power could be harnessed, the twitchy handling nearly ruined the benefits of high grip and power. This car is a prime example of the potential a supercar holds as a tuner.
5th Place: GreyCap’s NSX-R, Score- 80
A great standard.
Problems with weight transfer during technical sections and high-speed sections made quick changes of direction difficult. This car seemed to over commit in each turn making it difficult to maneuver. The quick initial reactions were negated by the MR layout’s tendency to turn poorly without weight on the front tires. Also hurting the score was the lack of downforce, which was apparent when coming out of the bumpy high-speed sections found at Trial Mountain. None the less, an amazing NA engine, great balance, and great tuning capitalized on the potential of the NSX-R creating an excellent standard for tuned cars.
4th Place: RotoryJunkie’s RX-8, Score- 82
Handling before speed.
Grip was surprisingly high for a car with no GT Wing. The handling was sharp and predictable but not twitchy. Turning was good and wheel spin was never a problem. However, the low torque output seemed to contribute to poor turning in longer turns. With more grunt and more downforce the RX8 would have been a contender for the top spot. However, as presented, this car did not fully use the potential of a 400hp RX-8 and that wasted potential hurt this car's final score.
3rd Place: Leonidae’s 350Z, Score- 83
Speed over handling.
The speed of this car blew me away. However, the handling was very touchy. Quick reflexes felt twitchy and power oversteer came out as wheelspin. There was a fine line between perfect power oversteer and wheelspin. Walking that line, combined with great lift-off turning made this car an excellent hotlap tuner. Unfortunately, the unpredictable nature of the twitchy handling made this car frustrating at times and generally less enjoyable than it’s slower, more consistent competition.
2nd Place: CirclesCenter’s 2000GT, Score- 85
Awesome handling.
Turn-in was good and oversteer was very controllable. The 2000GT always felt like it could turn more and handle nearly any line desired- understeer was hard to find. Even though the car felt slightly underpowered compared to the test group, the actual performance was respectable. This was easily one of my favorites due to the great handling through technical sections and great turning at any speed. The only suggestion to improve this car would be added downforce for better grip in highspeed sections.
1st Place: CraftyLandShark’s S2000, Score- 92
The total package.
Great job with the tuning here. Plenty of grip, tons of easily controlled oversteer, no understeer, and amazingly quick reflexes, this car is clearly an excellent tuner. Despite the incredibly quick reflexes, the steering never felt twitchy and the oversteer never snapped back. The oversteer was ideal and serves as an excellent example of the difference between drift-like oversteer and sports car oversteer. All around this was a great car with excellent tuning applied to a very capable platform (the S2000).
- 5,970
- Finland
I think it's safe to say that my own car choice worked against me more than anything else here. It was a known risk to enter (kind of) a low budget car when the others have full blown race specials and it seems it's not quite cutting it. Should have done a lot of things the other way but I didn't.
Rotary Junkie
Premium
- 9,810
- Canton, MI
- RJs_RX-7
I did the same... Built my car as a relatively-stock car, kind of embodying the "street car" theme.
Definitely could have used a bit less weight in mine. Maybe some more work with the suspension is in order for me.
Ehh, whatever. My "4th place curse" lives on in a different being. (In the old Budget Building Triathlon, I was CURSED to 4th place for the first 3 challenges)
And Kent: You spelled the name wrong... It's Rotary Junkie, not Rotory.
~Kyle
- 919
WOOHOO! A round for the house, barkeep! 
And I'm not surprised about 2nd... I had a feeling that 2000GT was a sleeper!
To celebrate, forthcoming in just minutes are my FF verdicts.
And I'm not surprised about 2nd... I had a feeling that 2000GT was a sleeper! To celebrate, forthcoming in just minutes are my FF verdicts.
- 110
yay chalk another W for Honda.
Honda's have been doing well in this competition. (If my Oddysey was tuned with more parts, it could have threatened the top 3, maybe.)
Honda's have been doing well in this competition. (If my Oddysey was tuned with more parts, it could have threatened the top 3, maybe.)
- 8,191
- Southern Louisiana
- GTP_Kent
Rotary,
Will fix your name in a few.
GreyCap,
You hit the nail on the head.
In part I'm not suprised to see that, after all, you wouldn't turn in a car that wasn't up to your standard. However, in another way I find it odd that you would say that with this being the case.
I mean, even you thought it had some twitch!
That said, be glad I only saw that after testing... Had I known about the twitch issue before testing I might have graded a little more harshly simply because you didn't take the time to attempt refining the settings to avoid a known problem.
In any case, it's all good with me so if you can be happy with your finish then I am happy for you. 👍
I may come back later (if not tomorrow) and report more on all the cars. I'd love to be able to put up more detailed reviews but the size of my scoring replies became a concern and so I held the commentary to a relatively short paragraph.
Will fix your name in a few.
GreyCap,
You hit the nail on the head.
2nd fastest and 3rd highest scores.. I'm satisfied. Though, I find it odd that you experienced twitchy handling.you use DS2, right? I think that it could be the reason..
In part I'm not suprised to see that, after all, you wouldn't turn in a car that wasn't up to your standard. However, in another way I find it odd that you would say that with this being the case.
Leonidae
I mean, even you thought it had some twitch!
That said, be glad I only saw that after testing... Had I known about the twitch issue before testing I might have graded a little more harshly simply because you didn't take the time to attempt refining the settings to avoid a known problem.
In any case, it's all good with me so if you can be happy with your finish then I am happy for you. 👍
I may come back later (if not tomorrow) and report more on all the cars. I'd love to be able to put up more detailed reviews but the size of my scoring replies became a concern and so I held the commentary to a relatively short paragraph.
- 919
Front-Engine, Front Drive MAYHEM!
The day couldn't have been more perfect - sunny, dry and 78 degrees at Grand Valley, but there was no time to waste sunbathing. Indeed, in proper Clarkson fashion, it was time to turn the impressive slate of cars idling menacingly in the paddock over to our not-so-tame racing driver!
Some say that he spent six years in a Muay-Thai monastary where he learned eighteen different ways to kill a man with his bare hands. Others believe that he once bought a pair of Steve McQueen's underwear on Ebay which he wears for luck on raceday ... underwear which, to this day, he's NEVER WASHED. All we know is, his name is THE SHARK!
Notes - All official lap times are recorded using the entrant's suggested gearing, and in the absence of specified tires, I used default S2's.
5th Place - 54/100
DeltaTrain's Cooper
2'16'591
I had high hopes for this one in the first few bends at GVS; it held the lines nicely, had plenty of oomph, and seemed to lack the typical FWD throttle under. But then, I hit (drumroll, please) THE HAIRPIN. Here I watched the promise of a capable platform, along with whole seconds of lap-time, evaporate in a ghastly-huge cloud of tire smoke. It didn't matter how gentle I was on the throttle, all across the track, any corner that called for a 2nd gear exit was MURDER. Despite the lack of bigger brakes and a BBC it stopped well enough and pulled mightily hard once in third, but that wasn't enough to overcome its absolute inability to keep its rubber planted at low speeds. A lot of the settings are obviously working against it - too-stiff springs combined with too-soft dampers working without sufficient slip-management ... and the POWER! Instead of first improving the motor's background with a balancing and a polish, there's a HUGE turbo bolted on that is NOT helping things. By all rights, this should have been the fastest car here, and there's likely more time in my lap to be found, but the car was a bit too frustrating for me to want to find it.
4th Place - 65/100
NissanTuner's Accord Euro-R '00
2'16'785
Thanks to its heft this was one of the more stable cars among the lot, but the weight hurt it in other areas, primarily in the overall "feel". The car felt ... plodding. Nothing was really AWFUL about it, but everything felt like it was happening in slow motion. Turn-in was effortless, but after the apex, the understeer was far worse in this one than most others. It did lose a BIT of traction out of sharp bends, but not as much as some of its rivals. Also, I'm curious about the brakes - why fit racing brakes with no BBC? Empirical testing has shown that the racing brakes alone do little if anything in GT4 to slow the car more than stockers. I do have to say though, this was one of the best exhaust notes of the bunch. Again, more time to be found out of this lap.
3rd Place - 78/100
Vince's Cooper-S
2'13'510
Laptime champion! This is an odd one - Vince, I think you rubbered yourself out of a STRONG second-place finish. Since no tire was specified, I used the default S2's. Despite that, it was a very capable car. Understeer was mild, overall corner feel was very stable, except, like its little brother done by Delta Train, wheelspin was a bit of a problem. It wasn't NEARLY as severe here though. Where this car would have cemented a second-place finish was on S3's - after judging, I took it back out using nice soft rubber, and it was PHENOMENAL. It was the only one of the lot that produced useable FWD torque-steer. For those who don't know, torque steer is a condition that occurs in powerful FWD cars near the peak of the band. Basically, as the tires climb near the point of breakaway and are producing maximum grip at maximum power, the car YANKS urgently in the direction the wheels are pointed. This is common in real-life FWD four-pot turbos, and is decidedly unsafe on the road. On the track though, it can become an INCREDIBLY useful tool. On S3's, your Cooper pulls it off with aplomb. Approaching a 2nd gear apex, keeping the throttle planted RIGHT at the point of full grip RIGHT before spin, it begins to feel more like an Elise as it plummets through on a brutally sharp line through the exit. FANTASTIC. Unfortunately I couldn't take that into account in my score. My laptimes dropped DRASTICALLY - running mid 2'11's with ease.
2nd Place - 82/100
Greycap's Clio 2.0 16V
2'13'907
This one is an unpredictable firecracker that feels at full lock like it's about to shake to pieces around you at any second ... and I LOVE it for that. My laptimes varied wildly mostly I think due to the front suspension settings. Under braking, it settles down hard on its front wheels, which in a front-driver is VERY desirable, but as soon as you lift or add throttle, the strong rebound bounces the car right back off of where it needs all its weight entering a curve. Add to that a rough yank to the outside as the car's weight transfers at entry (I think thanks to the weight settling hard on oddly-toed wheels), and it's a true firebrand. But once I found the balance, the car was a THRILL. The BBC is ideal, producing just enough rotation on entry to counteract the lift- or throttle-under to follow. Though it's the least powerful car here, it's the second fastest under my hand by a fair margin. And as with all MFT cars, the gearing was spot-on for GVS. Due to its wild nature, I'm sure there's more time in this lap. I understand you've posted revised settings at MFT, and you can bet I'll be checking them out!
FIRST PLACE! - 2'15'043
Kent's Civic Type R EP '01
95/100
This one is a KILLER! Far and away the best car here. I have to agree with Holden - it feels like it's AWD. Balanced, easy to drive, just amazing! Where I applied brakes in other cars, I lifted in the Civic. Where I lifted in others, I welt flat out. And I can say this is it's strongest point - it's the only one I lost track of myself in - I kept pushing and pushing wanting every single tenth out of it. I even went in and fiddled with the gearing to use all the car's range and posted low 2'14's and high 2'13's ... STUNNING for its power-to-weight ratio. The only criticism I could possibly level at it is barely even criticism - it feels like it could handle more power than it has, and stay balanced.
The day couldn't have been more perfect - sunny, dry and 78 degrees at Grand Valley, but there was no time to waste sunbathing. Indeed, in proper Clarkson fashion, it was time to turn the impressive slate of cars idling menacingly in the paddock over to our not-so-tame racing driver!
Some say that he spent six years in a Muay-Thai monastary where he learned eighteen different ways to kill a man with his bare hands. Others believe that he once bought a pair of Steve McQueen's underwear on Ebay which he wears for luck on raceday ... underwear which, to this day, he's NEVER WASHED. All we know is, his name is THE SHARK!
Notes - All official lap times are recorded using the entrant's suggested gearing, and in the absence of specified tires, I used default S2's.
5th Place - 54/100
DeltaTrain's Cooper
2'16'591
I had high hopes for this one in the first few bends at GVS; it held the lines nicely, had plenty of oomph, and seemed to lack the typical FWD throttle under. But then, I hit (drumroll, please) THE HAIRPIN. Here I watched the promise of a capable platform, along with whole seconds of lap-time, evaporate in a ghastly-huge cloud of tire smoke. It didn't matter how gentle I was on the throttle, all across the track, any corner that called for a 2nd gear exit was MURDER. Despite the lack of bigger brakes and a BBC it stopped well enough and pulled mightily hard once in third, but that wasn't enough to overcome its absolute inability to keep its rubber planted at low speeds. A lot of the settings are obviously working against it - too-stiff springs combined with too-soft dampers working without sufficient slip-management ... and the POWER! Instead of first improving the motor's background with a balancing and a polish, there's a HUGE turbo bolted on that is NOT helping things. By all rights, this should have been the fastest car here, and there's likely more time in my lap to be found, but the car was a bit too frustrating for me to want to find it.
4th Place - 65/100
NissanTuner's Accord Euro-R '00
2'16'785
Thanks to its heft this was one of the more stable cars among the lot, but the weight hurt it in other areas, primarily in the overall "feel". The car felt ... plodding. Nothing was really AWFUL about it, but everything felt like it was happening in slow motion. Turn-in was effortless, but after the apex, the understeer was far worse in this one than most others. It did lose a BIT of traction out of sharp bends, but not as much as some of its rivals. Also, I'm curious about the brakes - why fit racing brakes with no BBC? Empirical testing has shown that the racing brakes alone do little if anything in GT4 to slow the car more than stockers. I do have to say though, this was one of the best exhaust notes of the bunch. Again, more time to be found out of this lap.
3rd Place - 78/100
Vince's Cooper-S
2'13'510
Laptime champion! This is an odd one - Vince, I think you rubbered yourself out of a STRONG second-place finish. Since no tire was specified, I used the default S2's. Despite that, it was a very capable car. Understeer was mild, overall corner feel was very stable, except, like its little brother done by Delta Train, wheelspin was a bit of a problem. It wasn't NEARLY as severe here though. Where this car would have cemented a second-place finish was on S3's - after judging, I took it back out using nice soft rubber, and it was PHENOMENAL. It was the only one of the lot that produced useable FWD torque-steer. For those who don't know, torque steer is a condition that occurs in powerful FWD cars near the peak of the band. Basically, as the tires climb near the point of breakaway and are producing maximum grip at maximum power, the car YANKS urgently in the direction the wheels are pointed. This is common in real-life FWD four-pot turbos, and is decidedly unsafe on the road. On the track though, it can become an INCREDIBLY useful tool. On S3's, your Cooper pulls it off with aplomb. Approaching a 2nd gear apex, keeping the throttle planted RIGHT at the point of full grip RIGHT before spin, it begins to feel more like an Elise as it plummets through on a brutally sharp line through the exit. FANTASTIC. Unfortunately I couldn't take that into account in my score. My laptimes dropped DRASTICALLY - running mid 2'11's with ease.
2nd Place - 82/100
Greycap's Clio 2.0 16V
2'13'907
This one is an unpredictable firecracker that feels at full lock like it's about to shake to pieces around you at any second ... and I LOVE it for that. My laptimes varied wildly mostly I think due to the front suspension settings. Under braking, it settles down hard on its front wheels, which in a front-driver is VERY desirable, but as soon as you lift or add throttle, the strong rebound bounces the car right back off of where it needs all its weight entering a curve. Add to that a rough yank to the outside as the car's weight transfers at entry (I think thanks to the weight settling hard on oddly-toed wheels), and it's a true firebrand. But once I found the balance, the car was a THRILL. The BBC is ideal, producing just enough rotation on entry to counteract the lift- or throttle-under to follow. Though it's the least powerful car here, it's the second fastest under my hand by a fair margin. And as with all MFT cars, the gearing was spot-on for GVS. Due to its wild nature, I'm sure there's more time in this lap. I understand you've posted revised settings at MFT, and you can bet I'll be checking them out!
FIRST PLACE! - 2'15'043
Kent's Civic Type R EP '01
95/100
This one is a KILLER! Far and away the best car here. I have to agree with Holden - it feels like it's AWD. Balanced, easy to drive, just amazing! Where I applied brakes in other cars, I lifted in the Civic. Where I lifted in others, I welt flat out. And I can say this is it's strongest point - it's the only one I lost track of myself in - I kept pushing and pushing wanting every single tenth out of it. I even went in and fiddled with the gearing to use all the car's range and posted low 2'14's and high 2'13's ... STUNNING for its power-to-weight ratio. The only criticism I could possibly level at it is barely even criticism - it feels like it could handle more power than it has, and stay balanced.
- 245
Oh my god...............................................
2nd? WOW. Seriously I was just hoping I didn't come in last.
I didn't get eaten alive. *hyperventilates and passes out*
2nd? WOW. Seriously I was just hoping I didn't come in last.
I didn't get eaten alive. *hyperventilates and passes out*
- 919
Haha yeah I built and drove all the RWD cars to scope out the competition... yours was impressive to say the least! Let's hope it makes a reappearance for the classics challenge
- 245
Hey Kent, as a trophy can I have one of those high resolution pictures of the 2000GT?
Rotary Junkie
Premium
- 9,810
- Canton, MI
- RJs_RX-7
- 919
Yeah, on S3's, it would have easily rivaled the Civic for overall top spot, and beaten it by a mile for sheer fun-factor and in laptimes. Vince, that's one of the best front-drivers I've seen!
nd 4 holden spd
(Banned)
- 6,142
- GTP_nd4holdenspd
- No, another PSN: nd4holdenspd
Dang, 6th place with the CIEN. Maybe, just maybe if I had the new set-up in there it would have done better. I think in the end though I just built a car that is a smooth track special. I raced it at Trial Mountain and I couldn't do to well there. In the end, I deserve 6th, the car is too good at one thing and not good enough at the others. Maybe I can do better in the Classics. At least I had top lap time on such a bouncy track.
Edit: Congratulations CraftyLandShark on the win, once again you're on top, well done. Remember that offer is still on the table.......
Edit: Congratulations CraftyLandShark on the win, once again you're on top, well done. Remember that offer is still on the table.......
- 245
When I saw it entered I have to admit the shock factor of a 800hp mid engined V-12 concept supercar made me shiver a bit
Rotary Junkie
Premium
- 9,810
- Canton, MI
- RJs_RX-7
I wasn't too scared. Anything more than about 5-600hp on S grades is going to kill the tires.
And I'm pissed like hell I got beaten by an S2k.
And I'm pissed like hell I got beaten by an S2k.
nd 4 holden spd
(Banned)
- 6,142
- GTP_nd4holdenspd
- No, another PSN: nd4holdenspd
Yeah, but speed isn't everything, I tell you what though, if you're interested try the new setup that also has R3 tyres over at Aussie Tuners, see my signature. One of the fastest best handling cars around I assure you.
- 919
There's a reason they're one of the most-used cars at trackdays
Short of Porsches, they're probably the car I saw most of last time I went up to VIR. Plenty of rotaries up there most open weekends though, but most are -7's ... including the craziest looking FB I've ever seen in my life. Dude has a custom monococque body on it that looks like something out of an acid-induced nightmare. I think he was in the big shootout GRM just hosted.
nd 4 holden spd
(Banned)
- 6,142
- GTP_nd4holdenspd
- No, another PSN: nd4holdenspd
A steady foot in second gear and it's more than controllable, it is the same horsepower at stock anyway. The tyre wear isn't nearly as bad as you'd think.
Edit: Hey CirclesCenter here's a review on the 2000GT just like I promised
First I better get the bitterness out of the road so I can give a fair review. How am I losing to this, it's fun to drive but maybe there should be limits to just how slow you can put up with, the CIEN's almost 20sec quicker at GVS, and still handles fine by my driving experiences. OK, sorry bout that, now let's have a review. The balance of this car under acceleration through corners is phenomenal, there's no hint of understeer at most corners and just a slight tinge of oversteer that makes the car superbly easy to drive. But then at high speed the car can get just a little understeery, but that's probably me just imagining things wrong with the car or trying to take corners to quick. I thought just a tiny toe setting like -1 on the rear might help this and make the car just that little easier to turn and drive. What I don't like about this car (other than the exhaust note) is the braking. For a car travelling so slow why can't it pull up quicker? I might suggest a brake balance controller here and just fiddling with the settings a little to try and make it more maneoverable under brakes so you can run it into corners a little under brakes and reduce braking distance required. I won't change anything on mine unless you do in case I end up judging that category in the classics and you decide not to change it, that way I already have this car ready. Superb car under acceleration though, well done so far.
- 8,480
- P_Balance
I'd just like to make a correction here. You seem to have the wrong idea about torque steer. Torque steer doesn't have to be near the peak of the band, and it doesn't yank in the direction the wheels are pointed, that's just what the car normally does, except for the yanking part. That's partly why it's call torque steer, because it steers from the torque when you aren't turning to wheel itself in the direction the car is moving, or at least not as much.
There's a couple ways torque steer can happen, the most common reasons are the tire sidewall being improperly designed and it deforms under acceleration, causing weird steering effects, and the other is due to unequal length drive shafts. A shorter shaft flexes less than a long one, causing more torque to be applied at that wheel (the longer shaft flexes and absorbs some of the initial torque applied), which pulls the car in that direction.
I don't think gt4 simulated soft sidewalls, and unequal length drive shafts would cause torque steer in one direction only.
I'm not sure if there is a term for what you've described, but I know what you're talking about. The Spoon civic is a great example of a car that has the "condition" you are describing, and I think it's just a matter of a well set-up suspension that keeps a good bit of grip on the front tires and helps the car rotate easily.
- 919
Thanks for the clarification -- the sensation in the Cooper was what I've always heard described as "torque steer", and having felt it occur several times from the passenger seat, it felt remarkably similar, but I hit up Wikipedia, and you're right... I don't see how it would be technical torque steer, and have no idea what it is. I drive a front-biased AWD car (Subaru SVX) and most of the people in the owners' club I belong to who use the cars on the track often deliberately incite torque steer to combat understeer but I've only felt it under road conditions, and never while driving myself. The reason I assumed it was PD's attempt to model torque steer was that in this particular car it occured at peak torque output right on the verge of wheelspin, where under ordinary circumstances, a FWD car would be producing gobs of understeer. Certainly they haven't modeled tire sidewalls - they can't even pull off tire pressure - but the increase in this condition, whatever it may be, seems directly related to the ability to hold the tires at the point where they're just beginning to lose traction. I suppose it could just be a capable suspension like you said.
- 110
Rotary Junkie
Premium
- 9,810
- Canton, MI
- RJs_RX-7
MAZDA!
~Kyle
~Kyle
Rotary Junkie
Premium
- 9,810
- Canton, MI
- RJs_RX-7
I had built and done the tweaking on S2s...
So it's no harm done.
So it's no harm done.
nd 4 holden spd
(Banned)
- 6,142
- GTP_nd4holdenspd
- No, another PSN: nd4holdenspd
Oh dang, this challenge is almost over and I'm already going into hyper excited state about the classics. I stand a better chance there as my cars are less about being the quickest and more about being an easy pleasurable drive even though one of 'em will be quick in its class. Oh and just for the record
HOLDEN
HOLDEN
- 245
Yeah I was pitching it around fully specced out the other night and kept thinking, man the coopers and those other FF's really put the hurt on it in braking. I'll see what happens when I start poking around w/ it. I had the same issue under braking, but haven't corrected it yet. As far as the high speed understeer you're probably just so used to cars that were designed with downforce in mind. I don't think the engineers ever considered that this car might go fast enough to make use of downforce! A wing was not an option, I mean could anyone do that to the little red cherry? It would be so hideous!
Also try running it around that track stock for ten laps then in my tune. 147hp stock, horribly soft suspension vs. my set up. You'll feel like you just hit the afterburners.
Thanks for the review, helps me realize I'm not just imagining those things! I'm not just a crap driver!
BTW I'm cooking up an Merc SLR on sports tires... Want to play?
