Leonidae
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Tuner Garages
- Thread starter Kent
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Rotary Junkie
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- RJs_RX-7
Leonidae
(Banned)
- 6,881
- GTP_Leonidae_MFT
I believe that it could be the difference in the surface structure of the track. Tsukuba is very smooth and new, where as Nurb is old, gargantuan behemoth that has had millions of cars all over it. I believe that the Nurb's surface is rougher, providing bore grip than Tsukuba, that would seem to favour slick tyres.
- 919
Thanks to both of our new judges!
Although Tulok, I do have to ask why the Elan LOST points for added controlability and predictability. And I can't tell whether the comment about braking was in refrence to default or tuned, but I think (and I think most agree) that its one of the easiest cars EVER to late-brake in.
Also... no clue how you got understeer.
The car you rated the highest, you didn't take to the one track you picked as your "standard of measurement". The judging guide asks for a standard of measurement for all cars - preferably more balanced and more illustrative of a car's abilities than Tsukuba, but the track you chose is up to you.
All whining aside, thanks again to both of you, and may the best car win! We have until Wednesday night now, so let's see what happens!
Although Tulok, I do have to ask why the Elan LOST points for added controlability and predictability. And I can't tell whether the comment about braking was in refrence to default or tuned, but I think (and I think most agree) that its one of the easiest cars EVER to late-brake in.
Also... no clue how you got understeer.
The car you rated the highest, you didn't take to the one track you picked as your "standard of measurement". The judging guide asks for a standard of measurement for all cars - preferably more balanced and more illustrative of a car's abilities than Tsukuba, but the track you chose is up to you.
All whining aside, thanks again to both of you, and may the best car win! We have until Wednesday night now, so let's see what happens!
nd 4 holden spd
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Progress, so far Greycap is leading the pre '64 category with me and CLS in a very tightly contested 2nd and 3rd. Are there anymore judges coming for that category or will this be the final result?
Rotary Junkie
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I'm working on 64-72.
nd 4 holden spd
(Banned)
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Really? Cool, good on ya. Any idea when we can expect results in that category, from anyone? I'm dying to know how my poor little Isuzu is fairing.
Rotary Junkie
Premium
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Your poor little Isuzu only shows up 3 times a cycle, and I haven't found it yet.
Leo's car is giving me fits as well, and the normally common Celica that Mafs built has suddenly disappeared.
Leo's car is giving me fits as well, and the normally common Celica that Mafs built has suddenly disappeared.
- 919
I'll try to have 64-72 done either tonight or tomorrow. The benefit of being a garage pack-rat is that you have any car available when you need it 
STI_driver sent me a PM yesterday - he's finished his testing and plans to have his results posted within the next day or so as well. He's a frighteningly quick and capable driver, so his take on things should be very interesting.
STI_driver sent me a PM yesterday - he's finished his testing and plans to have his results posted within the next day or so as well. He's a frighteningly quick and capable driver, so his take on things should be very interesting.
- 919
I've already gotten used to it, he seems to have formed unholy matrimony with Grim R34per..
- 3,008
- You're crazy if you think
- I can afford either of these.
Isuzu? Bah! My 'Cuda's gonna roast that little sucker.[/faith in car]
*Starts fingernail biting*
I'd really be in trouble on these fingernails if CLS hadn't told me he likes how it drives already
- 919
I'll be done typing up my results very shortly 
- 919
Vintage Tuner Cup Judging; 1964-1972
Some impressive cars in this division, I must say! Two cars, though, stood out above the rest.
A bit of background on my method: Each car first ran GVS in tuned form and default form so I could get a sense of what to expect. For my control track though, I chose Infineon Sports for several reasons. First, it's a period-correct track for most of these cars, and a track I know very well. It's a challenging course that reveals any flaw in a tune through a combination of evil off-camber bends, small, medium and wide hairpins, and wicked sweepers. Most importantly though, laptimes here depend more on a car's handling prowess than on raw power or gear ratios. This helped to gauge improvement over default settings by removing any prejudice I might feel due to longer gearing.
And now the results, arranged in ascending order by score.
GT40's 'Cuda
74/100 1'41'933
For such a large heavy car, the balance is relatively good - the wheelspin and power oversteer are controlable, and restricted in most cases to 3rd gear and under, but lift-under can pose problems at times. Turn-in is considerably improved over default as well, but it's hard to focus on the fairly solid suspension when trying to harness the gearing, which is where the real problems are. This car, due to its unique power band, demands to be driven with a manual transmission. With the gearing left as close as it has been here, gear changes are so frequent that it's easy to miss a shift, and very difficult to drive consistent laps. Though this 'Cuda ran a marginally quicker time at Infineon than its competitor, that's thanks only to the closer gearing. At GVS, there was a marked difference - it ran out of steam on the main straight far too early, and ran laptimes averaging two to three seconds slower. In its defense, it didn't have any added downforce, but this also raises the question why, on a car that needs it so badly, was a wing not used? It improved somewhat over default, but not substantially.
Nissan_tuner's 240ZG
76/100 1'41'349
This is a quick car for its size and power, and crisply responsive at lower speeds. Throttle control is a must though, as power oversteer occurs abruptly and the drift angle is difficult to control once it does. It's also a bit awkward in transitional states - it likes to move mid-corner from mild oversteer to understeer, and the stiffness of the suspension and the increased rigidity make this more pronounced than it needs to be. Downforce and an FC Transmission would help immensely with both of these problems; downforce adjustment could produce a more stable mid-corner aero balance and help alleviate wheelspin, and the FC Transmission would likewise be instrumental in regulating wheelspin. I also experienced some unsettling twitchiness at high speeds, especially at GVS. This car improved over default in only one area really, and that's turn-in. The default settings were softer, more predictable, and wheelspin was more controlable. The rear toe settings on the tuned model caused almost any wheelspin to result in sharp rear end rotation; in the default settings, the transition was far more gradual. I ran faster lap times on both Infineon and GVS under default settings, and ran them more consistently. It does, though, carry the distinction of being the second-fastest car here.
MustangGT90210's 'Cuda
82/100 1'42'307
Though it's a hair slower at Infineon than the other 'Cuda, this is a far more user-friendly tune, and was much faster elsewhere. The gearing is long enough to allow plenty of time to anticipate shifts, and results in a car that's much more versatile in terms of track selection. The soft suspension was useful in that it reduced high speed understeer and sharp power-over, but did leave a bit to be desired in terms of responsiveness at turn-in and stability when changing direction at high speed. It's good to see that someone chose to use downforce on a car that needs it, but I think adding the FC LSD would have been a good idea. Overall though, a solid tune on a difficult platform.
Leonidae's Nissan Fairlady 2000
85/100 1'44'207
This is a nicely balanced car that has been well thought out and well executed. Most all elements of it are spot-on, with only two minor shortcomings. Its brake balance leaves it a tiny bit reluctant at turn-in compared to its closest competitor, the Bellett, but wheelspin when exiting corners is nowhere to be found. It's very slightly twitchy at high speed as well, where the default settings weren't, but not substantially so. The only reason this hasn't scored higher, in fact, is that it's a fairly marginal improvement over default settings.
ND 4 Holden Spd's Isuzu Bellett
86/100 1'46'684
This was a tough call. The Fairlady and the Bellett feel VERY similar, and though the Fairlady is a bit quicker, the Bellett is a tad more balanced through the twisties, and feels like more of an improvement over default settings. It's willing to engage in just enough power-over to be useful in tighter bends, but never reaches the point of wheelspin. The default tune was very mildly quicker at Infineon thanks to its closer gearing, but power-over wasn't as controlable, there was a noticeable tendency towards lift-under and high-speed understeer, and it felt "wobbly" overall. The tuned version addressed all of these issues.
Mafia_boy's Toyota Celica 1600GT ("GT-TWO Rallye")
90/100 1'44'581
This is one fantastic little Toyota! It's just stiff enough to stay perfectly planted through any sort of bend, without suffering over curbing despite its low weight. It practically defines "precision" in the handling department, and inspires enough confidence to engage in all sorts of overly-brave techniques. I removed all the downforce for a few laps to make sure the wing didn't give this car a skewed advantage over its Japanese cousins, but there was VERY little difference. SO little in fact that my only complaint with the car is that perhaps less downforce could have been used, to reduce drag and improve top-end. The BBC is absent, but the braking is good enough that there's no need for it. Default settings were good as well, but the suspension behavior is more precise in the tuned version, and wheelspin is eliminated. The only thing keeping this car out of the top spot is the fact that it's less of an improvement over default than my pick for the top spot, which is ...
Greycap's Lotus Europa Special
92/100 1'37'855
This car is the total package. The tuned version, for a mid-engined superleggera, is fantastic. Nimble, predictable even at high speed, and far and away the fastest car in the division. Not only that, but it has that "X-factor" - that intangible fun-to-drive factor that's hard to put into words. It IS a bit slow to brake, but this is a natural condition of the car and has been improved as much as possible. The reason this car is in the top spot is just that - its improvement. The default settings yield an unpredictable tailhappy monster that's likely to spin so many times that it'll cause the driver an unhappy "reversal of fortune". The tuned version deals with everything - the rampant oversteer, the short gearing, the wheelspin, the destabilization over curbing and in high speed bends; all of it. The only possible area for further improvement I could reccomend would be SLIGHTLY weakening the differential to allow for a BIT more rotation on 2nd gear corner exit to help counteract SLIGHT understeer while in the lag zone, and reducing the front downforce a hair more to compensate for whatever high-speed instability may occur as a result. That's a very minor issue though, in an otherwise fantastic reimagining of one of the greatest cars Colin Chapman ever put his rubber stamp on.
Some impressive cars in this division, I must say! Two cars, though, stood out above the rest.
A bit of background on my method: Each car first ran GVS in tuned form and default form so I could get a sense of what to expect. For my control track though, I chose Infineon Sports for several reasons. First, it's a period-correct track for most of these cars, and a track I know very well. It's a challenging course that reveals any flaw in a tune through a combination of evil off-camber bends, small, medium and wide hairpins, and wicked sweepers. Most importantly though, laptimes here depend more on a car's handling prowess than on raw power or gear ratios. This helped to gauge improvement over default settings by removing any prejudice I might feel due to longer gearing.
And now the results, arranged in ascending order by score.
GT40's 'Cuda
74/100 1'41'933
For such a large heavy car, the balance is relatively good - the wheelspin and power oversteer are controlable, and restricted in most cases to 3rd gear and under, but lift-under can pose problems at times. Turn-in is considerably improved over default as well, but it's hard to focus on the fairly solid suspension when trying to harness the gearing, which is where the real problems are. This car, due to its unique power band, demands to be driven with a manual transmission. With the gearing left as close as it has been here, gear changes are so frequent that it's easy to miss a shift, and very difficult to drive consistent laps. Though this 'Cuda ran a marginally quicker time at Infineon than its competitor, that's thanks only to the closer gearing. At GVS, there was a marked difference - it ran out of steam on the main straight far too early, and ran laptimes averaging two to three seconds slower. In its defense, it didn't have any added downforce, but this also raises the question why, on a car that needs it so badly, was a wing not used? It improved somewhat over default, but not substantially.
Nissan_tuner's 240ZG
76/100 1'41'349
This is a quick car for its size and power, and crisply responsive at lower speeds. Throttle control is a must though, as power oversteer occurs abruptly and the drift angle is difficult to control once it does. It's also a bit awkward in transitional states - it likes to move mid-corner from mild oversteer to understeer, and the stiffness of the suspension and the increased rigidity make this more pronounced than it needs to be. Downforce and an FC Transmission would help immensely with both of these problems; downforce adjustment could produce a more stable mid-corner aero balance and help alleviate wheelspin, and the FC Transmission would likewise be instrumental in regulating wheelspin. I also experienced some unsettling twitchiness at high speeds, especially at GVS. This car improved over default in only one area really, and that's turn-in. The default settings were softer, more predictable, and wheelspin was more controlable. The rear toe settings on the tuned model caused almost any wheelspin to result in sharp rear end rotation; in the default settings, the transition was far more gradual. I ran faster lap times on both Infineon and GVS under default settings, and ran them more consistently. It does, though, carry the distinction of being the second-fastest car here.
MustangGT90210's 'Cuda
82/100 1'42'307
Though it's a hair slower at Infineon than the other 'Cuda, this is a far more user-friendly tune, and was much faster elsewhere. The gearing is long enough to allow plenty of time to anticipate shifts, and results in a car that's much more versatile in terms of track selection. The soft suspension was useful in that it reduced high speed understeer and sharp power-over, but did leave a bit to be desired in terms of responsiveness at turn-in and stability when changing direction at high speed. It's good to see that someone chose to use downforce on a car that needs it, but I think adding the FC LSD would have been a good idea. Overall though, a solid tune on a difficult platform.
Leonidae's Nissan Fairlady 2000
85/100 1'44'207
This is a nicely balanced car that has been well thought out and well executed. Most all elements of it are spot-on, with only two minor shortcomings. Its brake balance leaves it a tiny bit reluctant at turn-in compared to its closest competitor, the Bellett, but wheelspin when exiting corners is nowhere to be found. It's very slightly twitchy at high speed as well, where the default settings weren't, but not substantially so. The only reason this hasn't scored higher, in fact, is that it's a fairly marginal improvement over default settings.
ND 4 Holden Spd's Isuzu Bellett
86/100 1'46'684
This was a tough call. The Fairlady and the Bellett feel VERY similar, and though the Fairlady is a bit quicker, the Bellett is a tad more balanced through the twisties, and feels like more of an improvement over default settings. It's willing to engage in just enough power-over to be useful in tighter bends, but never reaches the point of wheelspin. The default tune was very mildly quicker at Infineon thanks to its closer gearing, but power-over wasn't as controlable, there was a noticeable tendency towards lift-under and high-speed understeer, and it felt "wobbly" overall. The tuned version addressed all of these issues.
Mafia_boy's Toyota Celica 1600GT ("GT-TWO Rallye")
90/100 1'44'581
This is one fantastic little Toyota! It's just stiff enough to stay perfectly planted through any sort of bend, without suffering over curbing despite its low weight. It practically defines "precision" in the handling department, and inspires enough confidence to engage in all sorts of overly-brave techniques. I removed all the downforce for a few laps to make sure the wing didn't give this car a skewed advantage over its Japanese cousins, but there was VERY little difference. SO little in fact that my only complaint with the car is that perhaps less downforce could have been used, to reduce drag and improve top-end. The BBC is absent, but the braking is good enough that there's no need for it. Default settings were good as well, but the suspension behavior is more precise in the tuned version, and wheelspin is eliminated. The only thing keeping this car out of the top spot is the fact that it's less of an improvement over default than my pick for the top spot, which is ...
Greycap's Lotus Europa Special
92/100 1'37'855
This car is the total package. The tuned version, for a mid-engined superleggera, is fantastic. Nimble, predictable even at high speed, and far and away the fastest car in the division. Not only that, but it has that "X-factor" - that intangible fun-to-drive factor that's hard to put into words. It IS a bit slow to brake, but this is a natural condition of the car and has been improved as much as possible. The reason this car is in the top spot is just that - its improvement. The default settings yield an unpredictable tailhappy monster that's likely to spin so many times that it'll cause the driver an unhappy "reversal of fortune". The tuned version deals with everything - the rampant oversteer, the short gearing, the wheelspin, the destabilization over curbing and in high speed bends; all of it. The only possible area for further improvement I could reccomend would be SLIGHTLY weakening the differential to allow for a BIT more rotation on 2nd gear corner exit to help counteract SLIGHT understeer while in the lag zone, and reducing the front downforce a hair more to compensate for whatever high-speed instability may occur as a result. That's a very minor issue though, in an otherwise fantastic reimagining of one of the greatest cars Colin Chapman ever put his rubber stamp on.
nd 4 holden spd
(Banned)
- 6,142
- GTP_nd4holdenspd
- No, another PSN: nd4holdenspd
Damn Europas, I had a feeling it would win after you said Grey's felt similar to yours that I drove, and yours was awesome in all areas especially improvement. I see my poor little Isuzu had the slowest lap time 
But hey. 3rd isn't a bad result for the car I had the least hope in. Well done Mafs and Grey
PS- CLS, you might wanna change my name to a maroon one and Grey's name to a gold one, I had to highlight his to see who won And mustangGT90210's name is not in bold like the rest. Yeah, I'm being nitpicky I know
Edit: Done and done 👍
But hey. 3rd isn't a bad result for the car I had the least hope in. Well done Mafs and GreyPS- CLS, you might wanna change my name to a maroon one and Grey's name to a gold one, I had to highlight his to see who won
And mustangGT90210's name is not in bold like the rest. Yeah, I'm being nitpicky I know Edit: Done and done 👍
- 3,008
- You're crazy if you think
- I can afford either of these.
That's a nice surprise! I find turn in and that slight bit of responsiveness a fair trade for the reduced understeer. If it turns in and is very responsive, but understeers, then it's gonna run slower. That's my thoughts.
@ the LSD, I don't know how to tune those, nor much about them period, so I didn't bother.
I beat the other 'Cuda, so my goal is complete
Thanks for the judging CLS!
EDIT: 5th place out of seven on the first tune I ever didn't just bolt things onto, that's amazing!
- 919
Granted, there had to be a compromise somewhere - I think you made the right one, Mustang. If you want, PM me and I'll give you a few pointers on diff tuning. Having the diff would have put your 'Cuda in hot contention with the Bellett and the Fairlady. 👍
nd 4 holden spd
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- 6,142
- GTP_nd4holdenspd
- No, another PSN: nd4holdenspd
Then you learn that muscle cars are normally quicker but they want slow good handling things queue Isuzu
- 3,008
- You're crazy if you think
- I can afford either of these.
PMing you now CLS, thanks!
I'm a fan muscle cars. I'm a fan of big block V8s. I'm a fan of HEMI's. I'm a fan of American cars. Basically, everything I like sure isn't going to win here.
nd 4 holden spd
(Banned)
- 6,142
- GTP_nd4holdenspd
- No, another PSN: nd4holdenspd
Next time I'm entering a muscle car don't worry. And I expect it to do well too. 
That's the Camaro Z28 in the budget one I'm talking about.
That's the Camaro Z28 in the budget one I'm talking about.
- 3,008
- You're crazy if you think
- I can afford either of these.
Next time I'm entering a muscle car don't worry. And I expect it to do well too.
A Z28 is my club racer lol, if I can get it done tommorow
nd 4 holden spd
(Banned)
- 6,142
- GTP_nd4holdenspd
- No, another PSN: nd4holdenspd
Your Z28 is the classic one, my budget cup knight will be the '97 model.
- 3,008
- You're crazy if you think
- I can afford either of these.
Ahh. Those were nice cars! I don't have a plan for the budget cup. I'm thinkin the JZA80 Supra 3.0 looks pretty good to start with. Or the '97 RZ.
