Tuning system is completely broken in GT7

[mrPetros]

I think this is a subject that needs all the visibility it can get

Harmonic does a great job on describing in the video below:




Basically you can cheat the "system" into using much more power and much less weight in PP restricted races,
just by altering settings in suspension, aero, gearbox etc

 

[AlexWilmot]

Does altering settings in suspension, aero, gearbox etc, alter the performance of a car on track? Yes, Yes it does...
Should the Performance Point system reflect this change? Yes, yes it should...

Is PD's way of measuring the PP system right? that I don't know but its the system in place so if everyone has an opportunity to use it and tune a car to their desired driving style and feel is it wrong? no,

It's not an exploit, its understanding how setups work

 

[mrPetros]

in the video above it is shown how you can add like 70hp AND deduct 120lbs just by altering the gearbox.

if you dont see the problem here, I am sorry

 

[AlexWilmot]

in the video above it is shown how you can add like 70hp AND deduct 120lbs just by altering the gearbox.

if you dont see the problem here, I am sorry

umm no in the base setup he had ECU output at 93 Power restrictor at 70, ballast at 51, then on the second setup he had ECU output at 100 and Power restrictor at 79, Ballast at 0 so yes the 70HP gain was because he changed the Power and less weight because he removed the ballast

 

[mrPetros]

umm no in the base setup he had ECU output at 93 Power restrictor at 70, then on the second setup he had ECU output at 100 and Power restrictor at 79 so yes the 70HP gain was because he changed the Power

ok, I am not sure you get what's going on, so there is no need for further comment from me.

 

[AlexWilmot]

ok, I am not sure you get what's going on, so there is no need for further comment from me.

I do know whats going on, he changed suspension and gearbox settings which dropped the PP to allow him to up the ECU output(which you didn't seem to notice)

Edit: "no need for further comment from me" because you now have egg on your face by not realising he added more power to the car in between setups?

 

[Lord Protector]

Well, yeah, you can alter you car settings to best suit your car for the said track. You can make the car handle like **** and be fast on straights if you want. That’s the point of PP.

 

[mrPetros]

Well, yeah, you can alter you car settings to best suit your car for the said track. You can make the car handle like **** and be fast on straights if you want. That’s the point of PP.

PP should be based on hardware parts only, not on settings.

In the video above you can clearly see how just by making the car having a shorter top speed, he could add a lot of HP and remove a lot of weight, resulting in lap times of one category up.
Not making the car "handle like ****" at all. just exploiting a broken system

 

[Skinny McLean]

Around the one minute mark he lost almost 23 PP just by adding one kg. of ballast - that doesn't seem right to me.

 

[Dave A]

PP should be based on hardware parts only, not on settings.

In the video above you can clearly see how just by making the car having a shorter top speed, he could add a lot of HP and remove a lot of weight, resulting in lap times of one category up.
Not making the car "handle like ****" at all. just exploiting a broken system

It's been designed to change based on settings, that's not broken.

A car with more power but a lower top speed may well be slower than a car with less power and a higher top speed ona number of high speed tracks. I don't see a problem here.

Around the one minute mark he lost almost 23 PP just by adding one kg. of ballast - that doesn't seem right to me.

This on the other hand reflects a possible issue, but not reducing the top speed in favour of more power.

 

[MrMattAdz]

To be entirely fair here, there are one or two exploits with the PP system, but all they really require is some minor work to fix. The main one is that if you set your top speed at 149mph or below, the PP rating takes a significant drop, much larger than it should be.

Around the one minute mark he lost almost 23 PP just by adding one kg. of ballast - that doesn't seem right to me.

This is what happens, if you look closely at the stats on the left it becomes very obvious what has happened - By adding just one KG to his car's weight, you can see that the numbers next to high speed stability and 150mph rotational G are now 0.00. This is because the car is literally incapable of reaching 150MPH.

The game sees that the rotational G at 150mph is 0.00, and assumes that this means that if the car is going at 150mph, it is literally impossible for this car to turn and rotate, it thinks that the car is locked into moving in a straight line at high speeds. Because of that it drops the PP rating.

It doesn't realise that the car is perfectly capable of turning at 149mph, and that losing out on literally 1mph top speed has no significant impact on laptime, especially not as much as indicated by the drop in PP rating.

 

[AlexWilmot]

The system isn't broken, people just don't understand it

 

[mrPetros]

To be entirely fair here, there are one or two exploits with the PP system, but all they really require is some minor work to fix. The main one is that if you set your top speed at 149mph or below, the PP rating takes a significant drop, much larger than it should be.

This is what happens, if you look closely at the stats on the left it becomes very obvious what has happened - By adding just one KG to his car's weight, you can see that the numbers next to high speed stability and 150mph rotational G are now 0.00. This is because the car is literally incapable of reaching 150MPH.

The game sees that the rotational G at 150mph is 0.00, and assumes that this means that if the car is going at 150mph, it is literally impossible for this car to turn and rotate, it thinks that the car is locked into moving in a straight line at high speeds. Because of that it drops the PP rating.

It doesn't realise that the car is perfectly capable of turning at 149mph, and that losing out on literally 1mph top speed has no significant impact on laptime, especially not as much as indicated by the drop in PP rating.

video makes a very stellar job on describing the problem, and there are multiple ways you can cheat the system

 

[Techlet]

Not broken, just easily exploitable.

 

[xMAXIx79]

Everything you list here is not cheating or a completely faulty system, but a certain mechanics in the game and it has to be based on some values, otherwise any PP ratings become superfluous.

These "problems" only refer to races where a certain value of PP is specified, but performance and weight are not subject to any rules. If you are now on a route such as Le Mans or the Nordschleife or even more extreme the special stage, then a car with less power + a high weight but with a much longer gearbox will have a clear advantage. Because on many routes, acceleration above top speed often counts, but on others top speed is more important and then it doesn't matter whether you have 300 or 1000 hp, if your car is at 230-240 km/h at the end, cars pull it 250-260 or more at top speed hopelessly over.

And sorry, I already noticed on Monday after around 15 minutes of testing how I could achieve better results in the B race with far more power instead of top speed.

But the difficulty then is to keep the car easy to drive with so much more power, i.e. to find a setup that fits.

 

[Lord Protector]

Everything you list here is not cheating or a completely faulty system, but a certain mechanics in the game and it has to be based on some values, otherwise any PP ratings become superfluous.

These "problems" only refer to races where a certain value of PP is specified, but performance and weight are not subject to any rules. If you are now on a route such as Le Mans or the Nordschleife or even more extreme the special stage, then a car with less power + a high weight but with a much longer gearbox will have a clear advantage. Because on many routes, acceleration above top speed often counts, but on others top speed is more important and then it doesn't matter whether you have 300 or 1000 hp, if your car is at 230-240 km/h at the end, cars pull it 250-260 or more at top speed hopelessly over.

And sorry, I already noticed on Monday after around 15 minutes of testing how I could achieve better results in the B race with far more power instead of top speed.

But the difficulty then is to keep the car easy to drive with so much more power, i.e. to find a setup that fits.

Exactly this. Consider a scenario of a race at SSR X, with 700PP limit. Well, if that's the only restriction, I'm sure the fasted method is gonna include wearing low grade tyres, perhaps more weight and very high horsepower. If you don't want to see these kind of behavior, you have to set more regulations, especially tyres really.

It's basically a minmax strategy that's mostly used in RPGs.

 

[MrMattAdz]

I think the system is fine in principle and just needs a few tweaks to the process which determines the final PP number. Like others are pointing out, this is only relevant on cars that could barely reach 150mph on a track's straight in the first place, which is quite common with Gr.4 cars, but with Gr.3 cars and above, totally irrelevant.

It's for sure a problem with Gr.4 cars on some tracks and at certain levels of PP restrictions on road cars, but it's obvious what the issue is and it's simply a numbers thing. You could easily cover for this by scaling the speed that high speed rotation G is measured at, according to the BHP of the car (e.g. if your car has 300bhp, measure rotational G at 125mph instead).

 

[Techlet]

Then surely the PP system shouldn't just be a blanket per car measurement but dynamically take into account the track layout too.

 

[MrMattAdz]

Then surely the PP system shouldn't just be a blanket per car measurement but dynamically take into account the track layout too.

I think the problem with that is that it suddenly becomes much more complex to do that. And it's important to remember that the PP system is already pretty good at predicting how cars stack up against each other on a variety of different tracks. I was playing around with time trials yesterday and even across different classes I was surprised by how accurate the PP system was.

 

[xMAXIx79]

Also, I believe to fix this "perceived problem" you should simply calculate the G force at the maximum speed the car can reach in a straight line with no wind. This would take the wind out of everyone's sails who suspect a faulty system.

 

[Gt79]

I can imagine in real racing they change some settings to the suspension while still complying with regulations regarding power and weight, there is no way In hell they would be above regulations just by altering some suspension settings, it's just doesnt work like that, this game tries to be realistic but fails in that aspect altogether

 

[AlexWilmot]

I can imagine in real racing they change some settings to the suspension while still complying with regulations regarding power and weight, there is no way In hell they would be above regulations just by altering some suspension settings, it's just doesnt work like that, this game tries to be realistic but fails in that aspect altogether

because the change in suspension hasn't affected the power and weight...

 

[xMAXIx79]

But PP mean Performance Points.. and a better Setup push your Performance... I Dont Know what is soo hard to understand that.

 

[Gt79]

Well in case with this game your pp goes up, so that means you are not compliant with regulations, which is nonsense irl, just saying considering this is REAL driving simulator and all

 

[AlexWilmot]

Well in case with this game your pp goes up, so that means you are not compliant with regulations, which is nonsense irl, just saying considering this is REAL driving simulator and all

Please let me know which IRL race series has a PP system for regulations

 

[AlexWilmot]

umm no in the base setup he had ECU output at 93 Power restrictor at 70, ballast at 51, then on the second setup he had ECU output at 100 and Power restrictor at 79, Ballast at 0 so yes the 70HP gain was because he changed the Power and less weight because he removed the ballast

@Gt79 the change in suspension meant the PP lowered due to the cars performance being lowered, then the Video created changed the ECU and power restrictor settings for more power, suspension didn't do this

 

[Gt79]

@Gt79 the change in suspension meant the PP lowered due to the cars performance being lowered, then the Video created changed the ECU and power restrictor settings for more power, suspension didn't do this

Dude I managed to lower my pp with gr4 viper by tuning suspension and added some power while maintaining same weight, with that setup I was 6 seconds faster than ai they couldn't catch me on straights or in turns, **** is broken yo

 

[Gt79]

Please let me know which IRL race series has a PP system for regulations

The cars in GT3 are designed to have a weight between 1200 kg and 1300 kg (2645 lbs and 2866 lbs) with horsepower between 500 hp and 600 hp.
They got their own pps

 

[AlexWilmot]

The cars in GT3 are designed to have a weight between 1200 kg and 1300 kg (2645 lbs and 2866 lbs) with horsepower between 500 hp and 600 hp.
They got their own pps

thats BOP not PP

edit: no one in GT3 is getting penalised reduced PP because they've put more negative camber on the front wheels

 

[MrMattAdz]

Really? Your evidence is A.I races? You realise that you have no idea what PP rating the A.I. cars had right? Just because there's a limit doesn't mean that the other cars are all 0.01 under it.

And even with identical cars a lot of people are faster everywhere on the track than the A.I is.

Also BoP is not the same as PP.