UEFA Champions League Thread [Archive]

[OZZYGT]

Well that was a big crappy crap crap.

God damnit, terry out after like 12 minutes with the other ankle now effing eff argh. Robben seems to be made out of matchsticks, ballack just seems to want to play for the the fat paycheck he is receiving and god damnit that ref sucked something fierce.

On the plus side Sheva was awesome (although drogba wasn't oddly, why can't we have two in form strikers at the same time) untill jose took him off, I swear does he turn into a pumpkin if he plays the whole 90 minutes? Also diarra was awesome and so was Cech.

Thankfully we managed to get an away goal, so it shouldn't be too hard to beat them at the bridge I hope.

Damn but honestly Porto played so much better, they really seemed like they wanted to win the freaking game. Not that I'm saying Chelsea sucked arse, because it was an entertaining game, but Porto Should have won that one by a mile.

 

[Sureboss]

Well done to Liverpool.

However, I must say that the refereeing was appalling. Though the players weren't much better. Some of the things the Barca players were going to ground for, and when they crowded the ref, thus persuading him to hand out a yellow card... to a Liverpool player, was absolutely disgusting.

I hate yellow card waving by players. Deco isn't exactly not used to it mind.

 

[daan]

I hate yellow card waving by players. Deco isn't exactly not used to it mind.

The ref should just book anyone that does that.

"You want me to give out a yellow card? Here, you have one."

It would soon stop.

 

[ExigeEvan]

Face it, Fifa need to look to the Rugby Union rules on approaching the ref and yellow cards.

In Rugby Union only the Captain and the Pack-leader can talk with the ref about free kicks and penalties. I also think the sin-bin should be brought into football.

 

[OZZYGT]

Saying that a referee handed out yellow cards as a result of pressure by some players is really poor judgment. The fact that a team you like lost the game, really doesn't give you the right to downgrade the football game like that.

In a football match, specially a Champions League's, players are pressured and nervous enough to control their emotions when they see a play that can be favorable to them. Example: a simple foul near the scoring area.

As most of you may know, mistakes happen more often when the environment seems difficult or out of hand, and the last thing referees want, is players getting it at each other and eventually lose control of the game, thus a definite sanction like a yellow card seems like a great punisher when the players start getting an attitude.

Having said that, the yellow cards handed to Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal and Man. United, are the same yellow cards handed out in the same situation of games in the rest of the friggin' world. And that's football.

I know, fans are fans, but saying "ohh teh referiii suckd y0!" because of some yellow cards given to your team (and of course if that would have happened to the opposing team, you would have never said anything), really shows your understanding and experience of the game. Seriously, has anyone here been in a serious football club? not gathering up with friends and play a football game, I'm talking about a real club where you get money for winning tournaments, anyone?

And do you guys think that FIFA and the UEFA organization are going to put referees that are influenced easily by players on matches like these? What are you nuts?
I saw both Chelsea and Liverpool games yesterday and I can tell that the game ran as smooth as it should have; probably because I had no particular favorite as I didn't like any of the teams playing, but I see that we have bad losers in this community. Come on, just stop moaning about it and take like it is. Protesting plays to a referee is part of the game even when you know that a call can't be reversed. Or what? are you gonna tell me that Liverpool players have never surrounded or tried get a yellow card out of a referee?

You guys remind me of a friend that I have, who's girlfriend is from Ukraine. And ever since he started going out with this girl, he's been into Ukraine's culture like if he was from Ukraine. So anyway, a couple of months ago, they played Italy in a match for the EuroCup I think? and Italy won 2-0; I'm not gonna brag about a win like that specially against UKRAINE, bu the next day he was like "OMG that was an injustice, they validated a goal that never was, and the referee was totally on Italy's side. Ukraine should have won 5-1 if it wasn't for the ref." I didn't even bother to respond to that.

 

[Dave A]

The ref should just book anyone that does that.

"You want me to give out a yellow card? Here, you have one."

It would soon stop.

I agree completly, I think any time a player asks for another player to be booked, he should be booked regardless of if he already has a yeloow or not.

Face it, Fifa need to look to the Rugby Union rules on approaching the ref and yellow cards.

I agree with that.

In Rugby Union only the Captain and the Pack-leader can talk with the ref about free kicks and penalties. I also think the sin-bin should be brought into football.

I dissagree with that. The sin bin shouldn't enter football. We just need a: referees to stop treating players like kids, and b: players that give them reason to treat them that way to get booked more often and consistently. The "yes sir" attitude rugby players have with the ref is through more consistent refereeing and from the referees treating the players with respect but at the same time not being too lenient.

 

[Famine]

Saying that a referee handed out yellow cards as a result of pressure by some players is really poor judgment. The fact that a team you like lost the game, really doesn't give you the right to downgrade the football game like that.

At the very least daan and I have no interest in ANY of the Champions' League games. And we say if ANY player makes a card motion towards the referee, to call for an opposition player to be booked, the player should be booked himself.

Having said that, the yellow cards handed to Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal and Man. United, are the same yellow cards handed out in the same situation of games in the rest of the friggin' world. And that's football.

And I'm afraid that isn't true either. The simple act of watching complete league games from different UEFA-member nations will show you that referees act differently. Actions which are perceived as a foul in the Premiership might not attract any sanctions at all in Serie A, the Bundesliga, Le Championnat or La Liga - or even Coca-Cola League 2 and maybe even the Scottish Premier League...

And that's without even going to the US, Mexico, Brazil, Japan, Australia...

Shirt pulls, goal celebrations, "simulation", tackles from behind and pushes are all treated differently from nation to nation (and often from game-to-game within a nation).

A yellow card here is not always the same as a yellow card there.

 

[ExigeEvan]

Saying that a referee handed out yellow cards as a result of pressure by some players is really poor judgment. The fact that a team you like lost the game, really doesn't give you the right to downgrade the football game like that.

Liverpool won...

In a football match, specially a Champions League's, players are pressured and nervous enough to control their emotions when they see a play that can be favorable to them. Example: a simple foul near the scoring area.

But the Barcelona players surrounded the ref for a simple foul, I do not deny it was a foul, 20 yards into their own half.

Having said that, the yellow cards handed to Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal and Man. United, are the same yellow cards handed out in the same situation of games in the rest of the friggin' world. And that's football.

Yeah we know, but crowding the red wasn't a part of the British game untill a few years ago, atleast not the way it is now. Then again, I could be wrong.

I know, fans are fans, but saying "ohh teh referiii suckd y0!" because of some yellow cards given to your team (and of course if that would have happened to the opposing team, you would have never said anything), really shows your understanding and experience of the game. Seriously, has anyone here been in a serious football club? not gathering up with friends and play a football game, I'm talking about a real club where you get money for winning tournaments, anyone?

I played football for several years, sadly never in a competition with prize money. I played rugby for years, where there was pride at stake, and I mean alot of pride. I have competed in Karate where prize money is involved, but it shouldn't change a thing. You go out to win, for the honour, the bragging rights, the fact you didn't lose. The money is a secondary thing, unless of course you need to it fund a drug habit.

And do you guys think that FIFA and the UEFA organization are going to put referees that are influenced easily by players on matches like these? What are you nuts?
I saw both Chelsea and Liverpool games yesterday and I can tell that the game ran as smooth as it should have; probably because I had no particular favorite as I didn't like any of the teams playing, but I see that we have bad losers in this community. Come on, just stop moaning about it and take like it is. Protesting plays to a referee is part of the game even when you know that a call can't be reversed. Or what? are you gonna tell me that Liverpool players have never surrounded or tried get a yellow card out of a referee?

I'm neither a Liverpool fan, nor a Barcelona fan. I will admit I was for Liverpool winning but I didn't particularly care.

Protesting to the ref is part of the game. Everyone does it, from teh kid down the park to the spectator at the world cup final. But, pressurising the ref is different. Protesting is merely showing you don't agree with the ref, pressurising is trying to force a change.

What I saw in the Liverpool-Barcelona game was a Liverpool commiting a foul and the ref blowing, not reaching for his pocket. Then, 3/4 Barcelona players surrounding the ref and giving their views. Next we saw the ref walking away from the players and then producing the yellow card. Don't tell me that doesn't look suspicious.

I dissagree with that. The sin bin shouldn't enter football. We just need a: referees to stop treating players like kids, and b: players that give them reason to treat them that way to get booked more often and consistently. The "yes sir" attitude rugby players have with the ref is through more consistent refereeing and from the referees treating the players with respect but at the same time not being too lenient.

The ref is just as hated in rugby as any other sport. The 'Yes Sir', 'no sir' attitude is because if they dont they risk 10 minutes on the touch line.

 

[Dave A]

Sure the reason players show more respect to the referees in rugby is largly down to them not wanting to get punished. Like I said, that is a result of them knowing the refereeing in Rugby is more consistent and that they more than likely WILL get punished if they do soething disrespectful. That does not mean that the sin bin would be a good idea for Football. Like I said, I believe Football needs "a: referees to stop treating players like kids, and b: players that give them reason to treat them that way to get booked more often and consistently". If a player wants another player to be carded and goes to the ref to tell him, book him. Theres no need for a sin bin in Football, which is a far more flowing game than Rugby.

 

[Race Idiot]

 

[OZZYGT]

Liverpool won...

Win, loss, draw, it's still not a sporty spirit.

But the Barcelona players surrounded the ref for a simple foul, I do not deny it was a foul, 20 yards into their own half.

A foul in Barcelona is a foul in China. It doesn't matter where you are, the fact that it was in their own half, is still not a factor for the protesting.

I played football for several years, sadly never in a competition with prize money. I played rugby for years, where there was pride at stake, and I mean alot of pride. I have competed in Karate where prize money isinvolved, but it shouldn't change a thing. You go out to win, for the honour, the bragging rights, the fact you didn't lose. The money is a secondary thing, unless of course you need to it fund a drug habit.

I mentioned money because once you play for money, the game becomes more official and serious. More rules apply and precautions as well.

I'm neither a Liverpool fan, nor a Barcelona fan. I will admit I was for Liverpool winning but I didn't particularly care.

And that's the difference between you and the referee. That's why you say these things right now and the referee says another.

Protesting to the ref is part of the game. Everyone does it, from teh kid down the park to the spectator at the world cup final. But, pressurising the ref is different. Protesting is merely showing you don't agree with the ref, pressurising is trying to force a change.

Because protesting is part of the game, refs are less vulnerable to these. And often protesting is accompanied by pressurizing. And just like Barcelona players and fans protest a foul against them, Liverpool fans and players are protesting the sanction of the referee. It's all relative in a way, and that's what I'm trying to say; that you think the ref was "influenced" by players to make his decision but if you look at it from a neutral person's stand point of view, then you'll see that Barcelona players, did not change in any way, the refs original decision.

What I saw in the Liverpool-Barcelona game was a Liverpool commiting a foul and the ref blowing, not reaching for his pocket. Then, 3/4 Barcelona players surrounding the ref and giving their views. Next we saw the ref walking away from the players and then producing the yellow card. Don't tell me that doesn't look suspicious.

Did the camera focused the ref all the time? Many, many times, when a foul is committed and nobody knows what the ref will do, viewers tend to predict a refs action by the first shots of him. If the camera focuses the player hurt in the ground and then the ref with his hand on his pocket, viewers will assume that player protested and then he changed his mind. And sometimes the ref will not act like if he's going to give out a card, and then all of a sudden he does. Honestly I think you have not enough proof to safely say that the protesting players made the ref change his mind.

At the very least daan and I have no interest in ANY of the Champions' League games. And we say if ANY player makes a card motion towards the referee, to call for an opposition player to be booked, the player should be booked himself.

But why is that? That is called protesting buddy. If you think the ref will give out a card because a player is making a card motion to the ref, then you are downgrading the game. You are obviously saying that ANY referee will listen to the player and then take action. Why should we have referees then?
Take this as an example :
If a member makes a IBTL post, does that pushes a moderator's will to actually close the thread? will it influence at all? I do not think so. And what if it did? Don't you think the moderating on this forum would be poor?

And I'm afraid that isn't true either. The simple act of watching complete league games from different UEFA-member nations will show you that referees act differently. Actions which are perceived as a foul in the Premiership might not attract any sanctions at all in Serie A, the Bundesliga, Le Championnat or La Liga - or even Coca-Cola League 2 and maybe even the Scottish Premier League...

And that's without even going to the US, Mexico, Brazil, Japan, Australia...

Shirt pulls, goal celebrations, "simulation", tackles from behind and pushes are all treated differently from nation to nation (and often from game-to-game within a nation).
A yellow card here is not always the same as a yellow card there.

I completely agree with that post because that's 1 more reason why you, shouldn't think a referee obeys to other player's protests nor think that a player should be booked for making a wave card motion.....
Just like you say, different leagues have different ways of taking a foul, so protesting for a yellow card SHOULD NOT be sanctioned.

Umm I think that was my point anyway if i'm concentrating on the negatives of my team don't you think that means that they didn't play well? They didn't play well btw.

But Brett, you said "they didn't play well". I on the other hand, am saying that Porto should have won the game.

A team can still win a game even if they don't pay well you know....

 

[Famine]

But why is that? That is called protesting buddy.

Nope. It's called "harrassing" - badgering someone in a profoundly threatening manner until they decide to do what you want.

If you think the ref will give out a card because a player is making a card motion to the ref, then you are downgrading the game. You are obviously saying that ANY referee will listen to the player and then take action.

Please point out to me where I said that a referee will book someone if another player tells him to.

Of course, I actually DIDN'T say that.

I DID say that any player who asks for another to be booked ought to be booked himself.

Does the referee offer advice on where the free kick should be taken from, where the wall should be standing (other than 10 yards away), where the goalkeeper should be positioned and so on? No - so why should players tell the referee how to do his job? Are THEY trained referees?

Why should we have referees then?

To provide a disinterested point of view and ensure that the rules of the game are upheld.

If a member makes a IBTL post, does that pushes a moderator's will to actually close the thread? will it influence at all? I do not think so. And what if it did? Don't you think the moderating on this forum would be poor?

I think it does - when IBTL posts appear, the thread is disintegrating beyond redemption anyway (though not always). But, to key in with your analogy, regardless of any moderator action towards the thread, the member who makes the IBTL post gets a ban for their efforts.

We do not moderate for the will of the members - we moderate based on our interpretation of the rules and have been selected to continue doing so. If another member acts like a moderator they get very short shrift indeed and are often pounced upon by other members.

Referees do not officiate for the will of the players - they officiate based on their interpretation of the rules and have been selected to continue doing so. If another player acts like a referee they should get very short shrift indeed and should be pounced upon by other players.

I completely agree with that post because that's 1 more reason why you, shouldn't think a referee obeys to other player's protests

Once more for me, point out where I said that.

nor think that a player should be booked for making a wave card motion...

And the rest of this post should adequately point out to you why this ought to be the case.

Do you think that someone shouldn't be arrested for trying to bribe a police officer?


For reference, I play (field) hockey. It's a very common sight in hockey to have a player booked for excessive appealing or complaining about decisions (and swearing, for that matter).


There are 22 people on a football pitch trained to be footballers. There are 3 people on the pitch trained to be officials. There is rarely ANY overlap at all. A player's interpretation of the rules is liable to be incorrect, just as a referee's shot on goal is liable to be off-target. Both should stay out of the other's patch, but the players just can't help themselves for some reason.


Let's also add that a booking attracts a 3-4 figure fine from the club and possible short suspension from their job. If one of my fellow professionals tried to get me fined by my company and suspended from work, by pretending I'd done something wrong, I'd deck them. Hard! It's plain unprofessional.

 

[OZZYGT]

You know what man, I'm kinda tired and busy from work right now, I'll reply to this when I get home....*yawns* It just takes me some time to write in English without bad structure and grammar errors

 

[Race Idiot]

 

[OZZYGT]

Can someone give me a quick what the hell is he talking about

Yeah you know what? I get that feeling when you post too. I just don't say it because it's retarded.

 

[Race Idiot]

 

[ExigeEvan]

A foul in Barcelona is a foul in China. It doesn't matter where you are, the fact that it was in their own half, is still not a factor for the protesting.

I think there's some thing wrong if players are unable to control their emotions when they are awarded a free kick 20 yards inside their own half. I'd hate to see what their like at their Birthday's.

Because protesting is part of the game, refs are less vulnerable to these. And often protesting is accompanied by pressurizing. And just like Barcelona players and fans protest a foul against them, Liverpool fans and players are protesting the sanction of the referee. It's all relative in a way, and that's what I'm trying to say; that you think the ref was "influenced" by players to make his decision but if you look at it from a neutral person's stand point of view, then you'll see that Barcelona players, did not change in any way, the refs original decision.

A neutral person would see several players within close proximity to the ref shouting and gesturing with their hands. Quite similair to bullying on a school yard or a gang on the street.

Did the camera focused the ref all the time? Many, many times, when a foul is committed and nobody knows what the ref will do, viewers tend to predict a refs action by the first shots of him. If the camera focuses the player hurt in the ground and then the ref with his hand on his pocket, viewers will assume that player protested and then he changed his mind. And sometimes the ref will not act like if he's going to give out a card, and then all of a sudden he does. Honestly I think you have not enough proof to safely say that the protesting players made the ref change his mind.

If i remember correctley, the ref was in view the entire time, even at the point the foul was commited. He signalled the free kick and was then surrounded by Barcelona players. He stood still as they made their points. After a few seconds he walked away and gave a yellow card to the offending Liverpool player.

If that doesn't look suspiscious, then I suppose a man with a machine gun in central London doesn't either.

 

[Alex.]

Well, I'm a happy chappy, Liverpool won on aggeragate (sp?)


I bet we draw man U if they get through, or chelsea.

 

[Famine]

Well, I'm a happy chappy, Liverpool won on aggeragate (sp?)

"Aggregate", and no, they didn't.

 

[OZZYGT]

Well, I'm a happy chappy, Liverpool won on aggeragate (sp?)


I bet we draw man U if they get through, or chelsea.

Away goals FTW buddy. (no pun intended)

Roma did good today, Totti apparently did a pretty good job. Inter also did a good job controlling the game for the most part, although that little ball didn't want to get inside the net...but hey, what do you do .
I'm not particularly upset about that as I am AC Milan fan, and we better win tomorrow, yeah we have to....

Aside from that, congratulations to Liverpool and also to.....hum....chelsea....

On of my best friends is from London, he was talking to me while watching the game, and when Porto scored he went mad, he got depressed right away so I was like, alright buddy I'll leave you alone now....good luck

He's out right now celebrating Chelsea's win with his girlfriend! He didn't even take her out for their anniversary and he invites her to dinner now for this victory?!

 

[daan]

Inter also did a good job controlling the game for the most part, although that little ball didn't want to get inside the net...but hey, what do you do .

Have a massive fight after the game?

 

[OZZYGT]

Have a massive fight after the game?

That wouldn't have been a surprise....

 

[Dave A]

My word, Liverpool were abysmal today, 2 banks of four behind the ball nearly all game, at home. Can you imagine having to pay £30 to watch that, they're a shadow of the old Liverpool team that used to be good enough to win everything consistently. Barcelona didn't play well either, but at least they played.

 

[DQuaN]

Liverpool had some great chances, I really enjoyed the game.

A real nail biter at the end.

 

[Touring Mars]

My word, Liverpool were abysmal today, 2 banks of four behind the ball nearly all game, at home. Can you imagine having to pay £30 to watch that, they're a shadow of the old Liverpool team that used to be good enough to win everything consistently. Barcelona didn't play well either, but at least they played.

I thought Liverpool played brilliantly in the first half, and Barcelona only started to play midway through the second half. Liverpool were well-organised at the back, and potent with their three-pronged attack force at the front. The amount of times that Liverpool won balls in the midfield due to sloppy play by Barcelona was amazing. The 10-1 shots on goal in the first half says it all, just a shame Liverpool were pretty unlucky not to score. That 1 shot by Barcelona was off-target and a wild volley by Ronaldinho as well... Barcelona just looked too jaded and not up for what should have been their most important fixture of the year. The body language and attitude of players like Eto'o and Ronaldinho said it all... in stark contrast, the vigour and energy of Bellamy, Kuyt, Riise and especially Steven Gerrard was a joy to watch and I think they deserved to win on the night, as well as on aggregate. I reckon Barcelona were superior after bringing on some fresh legs, with Gudjohnsen and Guily making an impact, whereas Liverpool ran out of steam slightly, although Pennant almost got a goal at the end too...

 

[Dave A]

Well I didn't catch much of the first half, but Liverpool were so damn negative in the second half. As I said, Barcalona didn't play well either, but for Liverpool to play with everyone behind the ball, with two banks of 4 in defence at home, that was just shocking.

 

[Smallhorses]

My word, Liverpool were abysmal today, 2 banks of four behind the ball nearly all game, at home. Can you imagine having to pay £30 to watch that, they're a shadow of the old Liverpool team that used to be good enough to win everything consistently. Barcelona didn't play well either, but at least they played.

You mean sort of exactly how Man U played at Anfield on Saturday?
Oh, sorry that was 2 banks of 4 and a bank of 2 behind the ball at all times!!
Sadly though even having been totally outplayed all game, those spawny Manc 🤬 still had the audacity to score a lucky goal at the end!

Lat night Liverpool hit the bar twice in the first half, and missed a few good chances to seal it at the end.

Oh well, come on Lille tonight! Make the cheating Manc scum pay for the robbery of the first leg. Or will we get a 10 man defence again from Man U to protect their slender lead? I know where my money is.

 

[Dave A]

You mean sort of exactly how Man U played at Anfield on Saturday?
Oh, sorry that was 2 banks of 4 and a bank of 2 behind the ball at all times!!

There sa difference between playing behind the ball and being pushed back. On Saturday Man U were playing badly and were pushed back, last night Liverpool were jsut playing super defensive at home.

Sadly though even having been totally outplayed all game, those spawny Manc 🤬 still had the audacity to score a lucky goal at the end!

It was lucky, but Liverpool never really looked like scoring either.

Lat night Liverpool hit the bar twice in the first half, and missed a few good chances to seal it at the end.

They still played defensively at home, something I think is a terrible tactic, not only to watch but also you can't be enjpying the game to be in a team playing that way.

Oh well, come on Lille tonight! Make the cheating Manc scum pay for the robbery of the first leg.

There was nothing at all wrong in the first leg,e xcept for what Lille did after our goal

Or will we get a 10 man defence again from Man U to protect their slender lead? I know where my money is.

Man U never play defensive and use long balls for the break. We didn't against Liverpool, we were just playing crap. I gaurentee that Man U will be looking to make sure they score first tonight.

 

[Smallhorses]

It was lucky, but Liverpool never really looked like scoring either.

Really?!!!!
We had double the number of shots, almost triple the number of shots on target, and forced almost triple the number of saves out of Van Der Sar.

Sir Alex Ferguson claimed Manchester United were lucky to beat Liverpool - and admitted the referee was right to send off Paul Scholes for violent conduct.

The Manchester United manager believes the last-gasp win over Liverpool at Anfield was a 'massive result' in the title race.

"Liverpool will feel very unlucky and they deserve to. It was a fantastic result. We had a lot of narrow escapes and Liverpool upset our rhythm"

While there's clearly something wrong with the possession stats here, the shots and saves totals make interesting reading considering this was supposedly a "negative, defensive performance" by Liverpool.

"We won this leg, but maybe we were lucky considering the amount of chances they created in the first half."

 

[DQuaN]

The red cards stat is also wrong!