[POLL] United States Presidential Elections 2016

[Omnis]

You're so selective in how you turn a blind eye. If you own anything, being taxed or having the government print/borrow money to spend puts more of a liability on you as an owner. That's either through direct taxation or inflation pressure.

Doesn't matter if you're a social democrat or a socialist or a fascist or a Trumpet. Taxation is theft. The government wouldn't be able to do anything if it were held to the same moral standard as everyone else.

 

[mustafur]

This is an argument for whether or not the economy will grow, not whether or not a growing economy helps everyone. In my statement, the assumption is that the economy is growing, so none of what you posted above is on point.

I can. Economic growth causes deflation, which is an increase in the value of all currency in circulation. that benefits all people. The government can turn around and spend that economic growth by growing the budget (which they do) more than the deflation would account for (which they do). But that money still benefits everyone in the form of services, just not as much as if they kept their budget fixed.

You got it mixed, High inflation and High Growth work hand in hand, deflation works with stale economic growth.

Also to note in today's post gold standard world there is no such thing as increasing Currency value. Inflation or deflation your currency is loosing value, the only thing that may increase is what your currency is worth and it's buying power in other countries.

Economic growth is when aggregate Demand surpasses aggregate Supply, this causes Inflation as Supply of money is higher.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Only on the most basic theoretical level. As a generalisation it is true, but they're not mutually inclusive.

 

[Touring Mars]

 

[polysmut]

That can't be real?
Can it?
🤬ing 🤬.

It sounds like "Go Compaaare!" too.

 

[Touring Mars]

That can't be real?
Can it?
🤬ing 🤬.

It sounds like "Go Compaaare!" too.

Haha, yeh... both are based on this, apparently...

 

[polysmut]

Haha, yeh... both are based on this, apparently...

If he's going with a Yankee Doodle Dandy themed campaign, maybe Mr Trump should attempt to dance down a set of White House stairs at an upcoming rally. 💡

 

[Danoff]

In the part where you state my response does not apply to why a capitalistic society generally benefits everyone, yet go on to restate exactly what I said initially.

You said in exactly twenty word, what I said and I'm still wrong? Yeah, I am a bit lost in that.

Ok, no problem. Let's go back through it.

everyone necessarily benefits in a growing capitalist economy. No need to "make sure".

That's under the assumption that the labor force participation rate is higher than that of unemployed and non-working population, something we don't have at the moment.

Nope.

I said no here because I did not make that assumption. The assumption that my previous statement makes is that the economy is growing. Given a growing capitalist economy everyone necessarily benefits . You then proceed to make an argument for why the economy cannot grow without certain conditions, which is beside the point. My statement takes as a premise that the economy is growing.

Okay so tell me how 1 person is able to pay off social security for 300 million others.

What? I said "[E]veryone necessarily benefits in a growing capitalist economy. No need to 'make sure' ". I did not say "1 person is able to pay off social security for 300 million others." Honestly I'm not sure how you got there.

In the capitalist society, it is found that a sixty-five or higher labor participation force is required for successful economical operation. Although 12/15 showed the rate was 62.6%, that factors in those who are registered as unemployed, and actively searching. The rate should more or less be around 55-59 percent (or worse, this is 4 minutes of looking at BLS, and a few other stat heavy sites), accounting for undocumented workers, citizens, illegal aliens, etc... Those of which aren't in the system. The point is, bottom heavy isn't good.

So back to the original statement that "generally everyone benefits in a growing capitalist economy." Although you left room for it to be flawed, there is no way you can define it helping everyone from the 39.6% tax bracket to the 10% bracket.

This is an argument for whether or not the economy will grow, not whether or not a growing economy helps everyone. In my statement, the assumption is that the economy is growing, so none of what you posted above is on point.

Here I'm pointing out that your arguments are all directed to whether or not the economy will grow. Again my original statement took as a premise that the economy has grown. My statement was concerned with what happens in a capitalist economy when the economy grows, not what conditions must be satisfied for the economy to be healthy and grow.

I can. Economic growth causes deflation, which is an increase in the value of all currency in circulation. that benefits all people. The government can turn around and spend that economic growth by growing the budget (which they do) more than the deflation would account for (which they do). But that money still benefits everyone in the form of services, just not as much as if they kept their budget fixed.

The above is an explanation for why a growing economy benefits everyone. Economic growth with a fixed amount of currency means that the same currency must buy more productivity. That's deflation, and it benefits everyone because it means that everything becomes less expensive relative to the currency. It describes a rising standard of living. Even when the government steps in and absorbs all of that growth in the form of government spending (which always happens... and then some) it still benefits everyone, just not as much.

Hopefully now you see the difference between your statements and mine. Yours are concerned with what makes an economy healthy, and mine is concerned with what happens when a healthy economy is growing.

 

[huskeR32]

If you own anything, being taxed or having the government print/borrow money to spend puts more of a liability on you as an owner.

Yes, taxes are a liability for a business; I'm not disputing that. What I am disputing is this (quoting for a third time):

they only support making private ownership solely a liability instead of an asset.

Solely a liability instead of an asset.

Such a statement could only be true if policies were enacted that, simply by their enforcement, made it impossible for a business owner to do anything other than lose money.

Not only is this off-topic from what I originally said (Social Democrats do not support public ownership of production), it's hyperbolic nonsense.

--

P.S. I don't know why you're trying to draw me into a debate about libertarianism, but I'm not terribly interested.

 

[Danoff]

You got it mixed, High inflation and High Growth work hand in hand, deflation works with stale economic growth.

Nope. Inflation only happens when either the economy tanks hard, or the government prints money. Economic shrinkage for a fixed currency results in the same currency buying less production. That's a decreasing currency value.

Also to note in today's post gold standard world there is no such thing as increasing Currency value.

Nope. Usually the government ensures inflation, but that's not a guarantee. Currency value can rise or fall even without a gold standard merely depending on the money supply and economic growth.

Inflation or deflation your currency is loosing value

Nope. Inflation is currency losing value. Deflation is currency gaining value. It's in the definition.

"In economics, deflation is a decrease in the general price level of goods and services."

Economic growth is when aggregate Demand surpasses aggregate Supply, this causes Inflation as Supply of money is higher.

Nope. Here's the definition:

"DEFINITION of 'Economic Growth' An increase in the capacity of an economy to produce goods and services, compared from one period of time to another. "

It is not when demand surpasses supply (though that can trigger growth). It is when the total production of the economy rises. Growth does not cause inflation, growth results in additional goods and services to be purchased. If the currency is held fixed (I know that doesn't happen in reality, but the only way to judge forcing functions is to isolate them) that means deflation. Inflation results from an expanding money supply or a sharp decrease in goods and services produced.

 

[Johnnypenso]

You've got to hand it to Trump. There isn't another candidate I can recall in my lifetime that even think about using such an amateurish production filled with campaign slogans and hokey lines more suited to a public school election than one for the leader of the free world. Trumps message is clearly that he can do whatever he wants and it doesn't matter.

 

[Dennisch]

Aawyeah. That's my jam right there.

 

[Dotini]

The video is gone viral, as they say.

I expect the other candidates will be jealous as hell!

 

[mustafur]

Nope. Inflation only happens when either the economy tanks hard, or the government prints money. Economic shrinkage for a fixed currency results in the same currency buying less production. That's a decreasing currency value.



Nope. Usually the government ensures inflation, but that's not a guarantee. Currency value can rise or fall even without a gold standard merely depending on the money supply and economic growth.



Nope. Inflation is currency losing value. Deflation is currency gaining value. It's in the definition.

"In economics, deflation is a decrease in the general price level of goods and services."



Nope. Here's the definition:

"DEFINITION of 'Economic Growth' An increase in the capacity of an economy to produce goods and services, compared from one period of time to another. "

It is not when demand surpasses supply (though that can trigger growth). It is when the total production of the economy rises. Growth does not cause inflation, growth results in additional goods and services to be purchased. If the currency is held fixed (I know that doesn't happen in reality, but the only way to judge forcing functions is to isolate them) that means deflation. Inflation results from an expanding money supply or a sharp decrease in goods and services produced.

Why is this exactly against any evidence ever.

1. Deflation never happens in a booming economy(provide proof if otherwise).

2. Currency never truly increases value and how can it possibly under a Keynesian system.

 

[Touring Mars]

The video is gone viral, as they say.

Yeh, and it's making a lot of people sick.

You're right though - Trump's opponents will be scratching their heads over this for sure.

 

[Dotini]

Yeh, and it's making a lot of people sick.

You're right though - Trump's opponents will be scratching their heads over this for sure.

I imagine the looming likelihood of his nomination and election is what is actually making some people queasy. That insidious video borders on a propaganda masterpiece.

 

[Dennisch]

Just imagine this.

Trump becomes PotUS and replaces Hail to the Chief with his jam.

Best. Decision. Ever.

 

[Danoff]

Why is this exactly against any evidence ever.

1. Deflation never happens in a booming economy(provide proof if otherwise).

Deflation occurred periodically in the U.S. during the 19th century (the most important exception was during the Civil War). This deflation was at times caused by technological progress that created significant economic growth, but at other times it was triggered by financial crises

Deflation can be bad too - caused by hoarding (monetary velocity), and it can have bad effects - like negative interest rates which encourage hoarding. This is why the government generally inflates until deflation goes away. But... you wanted an example, and you got it above.

Note what I said earlier

2. Currency never truly increases value and how can it possibly under a Keynesian system.

What's with the assumptions? When did I say that deflation even occurs (note that I said the government always prevents it). Any deflationary forces today are short lived. On a decent timescale the government tries to correct it out. When did I say deflation occurs in a Keynesian system? Why do you keep changing the conversation?

Currency definitely increases value against other metrics (gold, other currencies, etc.) and how else can you even really tell whether it increases or decreases in value, and what would that even mean if you didn't use metrics? But regardless, currency value increases due to deflationary pressure are short lived, they'd be on a smaller timescale. The government steps in and makes sure inflation occurs, because it's free money and it prevents hoarding which can harm growth. I'll reiterate though, even when that occurs it is economic growth benefiting everyone.

 

[1241Penguin]

Gotta admit, it is annoyingly catchy.

"Over heeere..."
"USA!"
"Over thereee..."
"USA!"

 

[Adamgp]

It is a catchy tune.

After a little time on the Google I found this:

http://www.businessinsider.com/donald-trump-usa-freedom-kids-2016-1

Apparently it was written by a Trump fan/supporter who happens to be father of one of the USA Freedom Kids, of which he is manager.

The song was originally written about General Patton, but the lyrics were changed. Trump campaign had nothing to do with it but were contacted by the group manager to make sure it was ok to use Trump's name.

 

[CTznOfTime]

You guys realized Trump's campaign had no choice but use that kind of entertainment right?

They could no longer use hip music because no artists wanted to be associated to his campaign... So he had to go back to the ways during the beginning of last century.

They somehow were able to turn a not so professional presentation into a favorable refreshing attention grabber to their advantage once again...

 

[SlipZtrEm]

My first thought wasn't how completely awful and ridiculous the whole thing was. It's "those poor girls".

There's going to be a depressing Entertainment Weekly special about where they ended up 10 years from now.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

There's going to be a depressing Entertainment Weekly special about where they ended up 10 years from now.

One married and became a soccer mom.

One became a drug addict.

One sought asylum in Canada.

One became Secretary of Defence.

 

[Dotini]

One married and became a soccer mom.

One became a drug addict.

One sought asylum in Canada.

One became Secretary of Defence.

@prisonermonkeys is a literary man. His mind is teeming over with ideas suitable for a Nic Pizzolatto story.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

His mind is teeming over with ideas suitable for a Nic Pizzolatto story.

I call it "True Defective".

 

[Joel]

asylum in Canada.

Oooh, topical!

 

[polysmut]

My first thought wasn't how completely awful and ridiculous the whole thing was. It's "those poor girls".

I thought that along with "why are there 2 on one side & 1 on the other". Then I gave up.

 

[MatskiMonk]

Donald J. Fart is selling car insurance now?????

Spoiler: Go Compare!

 

[BobK]

The song was originally written about General Patton

Patton? Don't you mean Pershing? "Over There" was a World War One song.

 

[Adamgp]

Patton? Don't you mean Pershing? "Over There" was a World War One song.

It used the tune from "Over There", but this guy re-wrote the words and made it about Patton, then Trump.

From the link I posted above:

Popick himself wrote the lyrics for the Trump tribute song. He said it was originally written about US Army Gen. George Patton, whom he revered since he first saw the 1970 biopic, "Patton."