Unpopular Motorsport Opinions

[ScottPuss20]

I was more implying the move would've ended up with a DNF for both of them.

Which would've given Hamilton the championship on countback!

Hamilton simply had no chance on that last lap.

I disagree with this. If he just held his ground until turn 9, he would've done it.

 

[Liquid]

Which would've given Hamilton the championship on countback!

I disagree with this. If he just held his ground until turn 9, he would've done it.

A double DNF is a title for Verstappen; points leader heading into the final and he had more wins.

If he held out until turn 9 is fine in an ideal situation with all things equal but Verstappen's huge tyre advantage meant that simply was not possible.

 

[ScottPuss20]

A double DNF is a title for Verstappen; points leader heading into the final and he had more wins.

I thought they were tied on wins and points.

If he held out until turn 9 is fine in an ideal situation with all things equal but Verstappen's huge tyre advantage meant that simply was not possible.

If the roles were reversed I believe it would've been possible. Not with the tyres but with the positions on track.

 

[Pete05]

Hamilton's biggest problem in Abu Dhabi was Michael Masi.

 

[ScottPuss20]

Hamilton's biggest problem in Abu Dhabi was Michael Masi.

Yeah but he wasn't responsible for Hamilton's poor defense into turn 4.

 

[PeterJB]

That turn 4 move only happened because Max had cramp and braked about half as much as he should have. He was probably intending to make the move at turn 5.

 

[Pupik]

Even though I feel Verstappen made more driving errors than Hamilton throughout 2021, Lewis made more tactical errors than Max throughout the year.

At this rate, Ferrari is looking to clinch that record before the circus gets to Austin.

 

[Blitz24]

Even though I feel Verstappen made more driving errors than Hamilton throughout 2021, Lewis made more tactical errors than Max throughout the year.

At this rate, Ferrari is looking to clinch that record before the circus gets to Austin.

Ferrari already clinched that award. I'd argue it was decided at Silverstone.

 

[merseyxshore]

Even though I feel Verstappen made more driving errors than Hamilton throughout 2021, Lewis made more tactical errors than Max throughout the year.

At this rate, Ferrari is looking to clinch that record before the circus gets to Austin.

Interesting that from the wording here, in 2021 it was the driver's fault, this year it's the team's fault...

 

[Pupik]

Interesting that from the wording here, in 2021 it was the driver's fault, this year it's the team's fault...

That would be the easy tack, but Russell is getting more out of the W13 car than Hamilton this season. And if you compare their win totals...

[don't spoil the results of Italy, by the way...yes, that's how behind I am on this season versus my work/play 😆]

 

[Roo]

Ok here's the theoretical situation: Hamilton defends his spot going into turn 4 and Verstappen runs into the back of him. From here, a few potential scenarios could play out:

-Verstappen damages his front wing and Lewis spins out. Verstappen carries on but Hamiton catches back up to overtake. Verstappen gets a penalty for avoidable contact. Verstappen loses the championship.

-Verstappen doesn't damage his front wing and Lewis spins out. Verstappen does not redress and is later penalised. Verstappen loses the championship.

-Verstappen doesn't damage his front wing and Lewis spins out. Verstappen redresses the position and doesn't get penalised. Verstappen loses the championship, given that he can't get back past Hamilton.

Hamilton should've tried harder to keep his spot because it could've played to his advantage.

By that point, given the stewards and race director had already demonstrated an unwillingness to penalise a championship contender (when Lewis shortcut the course on lap 1 to keep the lead) or follow basic safety car procedure, any notion of Max being penalised on the last lap for anything shy of a full Senna-Prost 1990 is laughable.

 

[sillybilly]

unpopular opinion:

The top teams in F1 should run 3 or 4 cars, such as the case in Indycar championship...

Perhaps it could be optional, or perhaps could be required for manufacturer backed teams or for the top 3 teams in the championship could? Maybe could have salary cap extensions, and this could also 'balance' things as teams with more backing could pay more but then also provide more drivers a competitive seat.

I don't see the sporting or entertainment benefit in the current limitation, but the alternative could be very exciting to have extra drivers in competitive cars.

 

[Samus]

unpopular opinion:

The top teams in F1 should run 3 or 4 cars, such as the case in Indycar championship...

Perhaps it could be optional, or perhaps could be required for manufacturer backed teams or for the top 3 teams in the championship could? Maybe could have salary cap extensions, and this could also 'balance' things as teams with more backing could pay more but then also provide more drivers a competitive seat.

I don't see the sporting or entertainment benefit in the current limitation, but the alternative could be very exciting to have extra drivers in competitive cars.

Three car F1 teams have been mooted for decades. Well, they did exist in the 50s through to the late 70s. It never gets anywhere because enough people oppose it, and now it'll never happen with the current budget caps.

 

[TheCracker]

Three car F1 teams have been mooted for decades. Well, they did exist in the 50s through to the late 70s. It never gets anywhere because enough people oppose it, and now it'll never happen with the current budget caps.

It also wouldn't work as the grid size and pit garages are limited to pretty much what we have now, give or take an extra team or so.

You'd either have all the circuits having to enlarge their pit facilities (never going to happen - either impossible due to available room to do so or just prohibitively expensive) or teams take a hit on the space they have to work in.

 

[toastet]

It also wouldn't work as the grid size and pit garages are limited to pretty much what we have now, give or take an extra team or so.

You'd either have all the circuits having to enlarge their pit facilities (never going to happen - either impossible due to available room to do so or just prohibitively expensive) or teams take a hit on the space they have to work in.

Wasn't a problem when they had 3 cars with T-Cars and/or 3rd Free Practice Cars. Pit space is really the last problem in this scenario.

 

[merseyxshore]

F2 is the superior formula; F1 should be uniform cars. Still the fastest and most advanced formula in motorsport, but driver skill, strategy and management should be the defining factors in winning at the top end.

Also, F2 cars look infinitely cooler than F1 cars.

 

[Liquid]

Wasn't a problem when they had 3 cars with T-Cars and/or 3rd Free Practice Cars. Pit space is really the last problem in this scenario.

There was a reason a T-car was named a tea car. (Hint: You could rest your tea on it because the car was so important) Having a dedicated third car would require more time, attention and materials that the current pit layouts don't have. It's very different from a spare or backup.

 

[toastet]

There was a reason a T-car was named a tea car. (Hint: You could rest your tea on it because the car was so important) Having a dedicated third car would require more time, attention and materials that the current pit layouts don't have. It's very different from a spare or backup.

I guess you missed the F1 years people jumping into T-Cars after having start crashs.

 

[WiisardNic]

Grosjean's hate through 2012 was quite unwarranted. Case in point, GR's unawareness not being 💩 on as much.

 

[Samus]

I guess you missed the F1 years people jumping into T-Cars after having start crashs.

They didn't have a third dedicated crew for the T-Car though, as would be required with a full-time third car/driver. Whoever needed the third car had their crew work on it. With a full-time third driver you'd need three times the staff, equipment, three times the data processing etc etc.

 

[Suzuki-Cara]

This is NASCAR-wise, but I suspect a lot of people probably hold this opinion, just won't say it.

The Next-gen car that's currently being used has more problems than TCOT, and was obviously rushed thanks to the pandemic.

 

[sillybilly]

Three car F1 teams have been mooted for decades. Well, they did exist in the 50s through to the late 70s. It never gets anywhere because enough people oppose it, and now it'll never happen with the current budget caps.

It could be a part solution to salary caps, the big teams can afford way more than the current budget cap. If there were allowed double the cap to run 4 cars they could easily afford it - except they will complain about prize money split - but then they are being silly because F1 is a way to spend rich company money not make money.

It also wouldn't work as the grid size and pit garages are limited to pretty much what we have now, give or take an extra team or so.

You'd either have all the circuits having to enlarge their pit facilities (never going to happen - either impossible due to available room to do so or just prohibitively expensive) or teams take a hit on the space they have to work in.

Nah, I reckon many Grade1 circuits can host WEC or other events with bigger fields... I think the logistics of expanding pit garages would be possible.

Also some of the extra cars would come from lower teams that would become amalgamated into the top team. ie. Alpha Tauri marketing can be run on RedBull cars 3 and 4 and they save cost on the design of those cars.

They didn't have a third dedicated crew for the T-Car though, as would be required with a full-time third car/driver. Whoever needed the third car had their crew work on it. With a full-time third driver you'd need three times the staff, equipment, three times the data processing etc etc.

It's not three times... its 1.5x for a 2 car team becoming 3, and 2x for a 2 car team becoming a 4 car team... but the salary cap also increases for the team by 1.5x or 2x and they get economy of saving cost on design by just making more of the same parts...

In fact in the case of AlphaTauri becoming RedBull3 and RedBull4 the data processing could be more efficient as they don't need different systems etc.

From a design point I really like the variation of all the teams, but really the Alfa Tauri and Haas designs are kind of not very good and the drivers would be far better off if they were driving in a 3rd or 4th RedBull or Ferrari.

Aston Martin can be used as the paint for Mercedes 3rd and 4th car so they don't need to copy the homework again...

Except here I contradict myself as I really like the shape of the Aston Martin even if it is mostly slow as heck I support it for the effort and think it's probably cooler thing on the grid than having an extra Merc.

I haven't completely considered customer car scenario but it's possible that could be included in this... also the 3rd and 4th cars could easily be painted differently like Indycar teams, however from a spectator and competition point of view it would be best if it was clear that the drivers were in the same equipment - more driver have a similar opportunity of success.

 

[TheCracker]

It could be a part solution to salary caps, the big teams can afford way more than the current budget cap. If there were allowed double the cap to run 4 cars they could easily afford it - except they will complain about prize money split - but then they are being silly because F1 is a way to spend rich company money not make money.


Nah, I reckon many Grade1 circuits can host WEC or other events with bigger fields... I think the logistics of expanding pit garages would be possible.

Also some of the extra cars would come from lower teams that would become amalgamated into the top team. ie. Alpha Tauri marketing can be run on RedBull cars 3 and 4 and they save cost on the design of those cars.


It's not three times... its 1.5x for a 2 car team becoming 3, and 2x for a 2 car team becoming a 4 car team... but the salary cap also increases for the team by 1.5x or 2x and they get economy of saving cost on design by just making more of the same parts...

In fact in the case of AlphaTauri becoming RedBull3 and RedBull4 the data processing could be more efficient as they don't need different systems etc.

From a design point I really like the variation of all the teams, but really the Alfa Tauri and Haas designs are kind of not very good and the drivers would be far better off if they were driving in a 3rd or 4th RedBull or Ferrari.

Aston Martin can be used as the paint for Mercedes 3rd and 4th car so they don't need to copy the homework again...

Except here I contradict myself as I really like the shape of the Aston Martin even if it is mostly slow as heck I support it for the effort and think it's probably cooler thing on the grid than having an extra Merc.

I haven't completely considered customer car scenario but it's possible that could be included in this... also the 3rd and 4th cars could easily be painted differently like Indycar teams, however from a spectator and competition point of view it would be best if it was clear that the drivers were in the same equipment - more driver have a similar opportunity of success.

This all misses the point that F1 is a manufacturers championship as well as a drivers championship. An extra car or two cars from a top team would just serve to lock out other teams (and therefore drivers) from scoring points. Instead of just Perez as Verstappen's wing man, you have Gasley and Tsunoda too.

What happens to all the staff and the facilities at Hinwil when Alfa becomes Ferrari cars 3 & 4? What happens to the long-standing set up at Faenza when AlphaTauri becomes Redbull 3 & 4? Aston's Silverstone base to be turned into a Premier Inn when Mercedes rolls them into the team? Instead of 10 teams on the grid you'll end up with 5 or 6, with hundreds of ex-team members losing their jobs.

 

[toastet]

3 would be fine but the third car not eligible to score points in the manufacturers championship. The costcap wouldn't have to be raised by a third. This would also be a opportunity for smaller teams to get a third driver as paydriver and not "waste" a cockpit for guys like Latifi or Mazepin unlikely to ever score points.

Bit different sport but works in WRC like this.

 

[Liquid]

Team orders would be horrendous with three cars.

 

[sillybilly]

Grosjean's hate through 2012 was quite unwarranted. Case in point, GR's unawareness not being 💩 on as much.

Overall I feel there is just way too much hate around F1 on all sorts of things... Alonso complained of polemics when he quit the first time and I think it's still a valid complaint that the media is very divisive and pushes fans to strong non-compatible opinions...

Too much hate for Grosjean, hate for Vettel when he was winning, hate for Red Bull, hate to Hamilton, hate for Mercedes, hate for Verstappen, hate for track limits, hate for DRS, hate for tyres, hate for tyres that can't follow closely, hate of the sound of efficient turbo power units, hate for stewards, hate for race directors, hate for excessive costs for team, hate for excessive cost for spectators...

I think the FIA is at the moment trying to attract some of the hate to give everyone else a break? the media seems to have gone stacks-on?

 

[merseyxshore]

Here's a controversial one: I don't actually blame Netflix for inventing drama in Drive To Survive, because most of the grid are dull as dishwater. It's done a lot for the sport, and it wouldn't have been able to do this by telling it exactly as it is. Danny, Lando, Seb and Yuki are the only drivers with an ounce of character, and Guenther has more craic than all 20 drivers combined. Need to outlaw media training in the regs or something haha

 

[sillybilly]

Here's a controversial one: I don't actually blame Netflix for inventing drama in Drive To Survive, because most of the grid are dull as dishwater. It's done a lot for the sport, and it wouldn't have been able to do this by telling it exactly as it is. Danny, Lando, Seb and Yuki are the only drivers with an ounce of character, and Guenther has more craic than all 20 drivers combined. Need to outlaw media training in the regs or something haha

Interesting take. I thought season 1 was great and didn't need to have any invented stuff - but perhaps it was too documentary style and a bit dry for casual audience. In my opinion season 3 got so bad that I only watched a few clips of season 4, admittedly I'm a long term F1 fan and not a new Fl casual target audience.

 

[Liquid]

Here's a controversial one: I don't actually blame Netflix for inventing drama in Drive To Survive, because most of the grid are dull as dishwater. It's done a lot for the sport, and it wouldn't have been able to do this by telling it exactly as it is. Danny, Lando, Seb and Yuki are the only drivers with an ounce of character, and Guenther has more craic than all 20 drivers combined. Need to outlaw media training in the regs or something haha

Highlighting charismatic personalities is not the same as creating fiction for dramatic effect.

 

[sillybilly]

This all misses the point that F1 is a manufacturers championship as well as a drivers championship. An extra car or two cars from a top team would just serve to lock out other teams (and therefore drivers) from scoring points. Instead of just Perez as Verstappen's wing man, you have Gasley and Tsunoda too.

What happens to all the staff and the facilities at Hinwil when Alfa becomes Ferrari cars 3 & 4? What happens to the long-standing set up at Faenza when AlphaTauri becomes Redbull 3 & 4? Aston's Silverstone base to be turned into a Premier Inn when Mercedes rolls them into the team? Instead of 10 teams on the grid you'll end up with 5 or 6, with hundreds of ex-team members losing their jobs.

1a. The points for constructors can be solved as other championships and only some cars count.
1b. Locking out other teams isn't a problem if they are competitive, if it is a situation like the last 8 years and one team is mostly dominant then there are 2 second driver which have a chance to compete against the number 1. A dominant team would lock it out exactly like they do now, but there would be a good chance that one of the other drivers in the same car could compete on some races with the number 1. You would have 100% increase in the chance of a 2016 intra-team battle for the title, and an extra benchmark in the same equipment.
1c. I love the look of the AlphaTauri car and think it has had some good moments, but how interesting would it be to know how quick Gasley and Tsunoda could be in the same equipment as Verstappen and Perez?

2a. The big teams budget caps expand based on number of cars, so they can take on most or the best staff from any absorbed midfield?
2b. Midfield team resources could be used to create components and assemble parts, maybe the 3rd and 4th cars are assembled and prepared in Faenza - they could perhaps build parts and assemblies from the same designs?
2c. Worst case there would be some redundancies exactly like every other industry in the world when companies fail to make a competitive product it gets canned and sometimes people are let go and sometimes businesses close?