Unpopular opinion - VGT Cars need to go...

[Talon16]

I don't like them either; most are ugly as sin. I mean, I don't care if they stay but they need their own class. No more VGTs in Gr3 races or Gr1 races. They ruined Gr1 races in GT-S because I am trying to race around N24 in my 787B and just can't keep up with their cornering and exit speeds. This is yet to be seen since obviously we don't have any Gr1 races in GT7 yet.

Again, they need their own class and races; get them out of 'real car' races.

Edit: To clarify, I don't care if a user wants to use one in a race I just don't want the AI getting to use one

 

[FoxMulder]

They’re neat for a game with hundreds of cars. No one else is doing this stuff with manufacturers.

They just need their own classes or filters to keep out of normal races though.

 

[breeminator]

I quite enjoy the Tomahawk S for the races it can be used in. One thing that bothers me about it is the model you see with chase cam is a noticeably reduced fidelity mesh compared to when you see it in other situations e.g. when painting it.

 

[Nagaremono]

It reflects badly on Polyphony, I'll not think less of Jaguar because polyphony only put one of their actual cars in the game. There are several manufacturers that have very lacking lineups. Yeah, GT was always JDM heavy, but the rest of the world had quite good representation also. Not in GT7 it seems.

I don’t know enough about the power hierarchy to really work it out. Do the manufacturers decide what they’d like PD to model, or does PD offer to (pay to?) model specific cars? Or is it different, manufacturer to manufacturer?

What I do know is if I were running Jag I wouldn’t want it to look like we make one real modern car, but loads of fantasy guff on paper.

 

[alexgontijo]

Agreed. VGT are pointless in the real driving simulator. Give us newer cars, new hybrids,... RS6, M2, GTIs, ... Senna, Valhala, Regera, GM T50!

 

[breeminator]

I don’t know enough about the power hierarchy to really work it out. Do the manufacturers decide what they’d like PD to model, or does PD offer to (pay to?) model specific cars?

My understanding of how it works in general is that a game maker has a desire to include a car, because they think it will enhance their game, and they approach the manufacturer to licence it, which costs them money. The game maker then does the modelling, which is incredibly expensive. I saw some information about modelling cars in Forza, and it took one person 3 months, IIRC, to make a single fidelity model of one car. I don't know how many different fidelity models there are (the model used reduces in fidelity when it's smaller on screen), but there are at least 2 per car, and they're made by different people independently to optimise each one separately. So it's an absolute minimum of 6 person months of work per car.

The VGT cars may be different, I think I saw it mentioned for one that the manufacturer did the modelling. I can also imagine it working differently if a manufacturer is super keen to have one of their cars in a game rather than the desire for it to be in the game originating with the game maker, but I think the vast majority of the time it works like I said in my first paragraph.

 

[NICKname]

No more VGTs in Gr3 races or Gr1 races. They ruined Gr1 races in GT-S because I am trying to race around N24 in my 787B and just can't keep up with their cornering and exit speeds. This is yet to be seen since obviously we don't have any Gr1 races in GT7 yet.

I've always seen the Gr. 1 VGTs as fictional LMH cars. It'll probably take PD years and years to finally start modelling real LMHs, so this is a decent alternative. And with good BOP they can compete alongside LMP1 cars, that literally happens in real life. I don't mind them being in Gr. 1. It's the Group C cars in Gr. 1 that's the problem to me. Those should be in a special Gr. C category. But the Gr. 3 VGTs are indeed ridiculous either way.

 

[ruggermole]

No I would prefer they had not made them to begin with and had used this resource to create more normal cars.

So you want PD to go back in time and remove them from the games they first originated in? It makes no sense for a game to remove features as long as they aren't harmful.

As long BOP is working properly it shouldn't be negatively affecting anyone else's race.

I'm not the biggest fan of VGT cars that are not within the realms of possibility (okay the Tomahawk is actually kind of cool) but I think that it's cool that there is a platform for manufacturer's to design cars that aren't 100% bound by reality. Let them dream a little bit.

 

[nickg07]

So you want PD to go back in time and remove them from the games they first originated in? It makes no sense for a game to remove features as long as they aren't harmful.

As long BOP is working properly it shouldn't be negatively affecting anyone else's race.

I'm not the biggest fan of VGT cars that are not within the realms of possibility (okay the Tomahawk is actually kind of cool) but I think that it's cool that there is a platform for manufacturer's to design cars that aren't 100% bound by reality. Let them dream a little bit.

They are harmful because they don't conform to car standards for real life for size/power/weight etc and therefore are overpowered compared to most normal cars in the game.

Why does everyone's buy the TomHawk to find if it is no better than real car xyz? Because it is unbalanced and has performance that is otherwise not possible.

 

[ruggermole]

We buy it cause it's fun to drive and it's unique to Gran Turismo. There are plenty of other games that provide true sim experiences, this is a game that provides a plethora of gaming experiences of the many different types of people who want to play it.

 

[Magog]

I love them. You get to see what top car designers would make if cost and marketability weren't concerns.

 

[HGHTCH]

I love them, but I don't think they should be able to compete online in daily or manufacturer races

 

[nickg07]

I love them. You get to see what top car designers would make if cost and marketability weren't concerns.

And if they didn't have to fit people in them, conform to health standards or make real world performance engines.

 

[Dave A]

The VGT cars are no different to concept cars, some VGT cars are pure concept, some have working prototypes. Gran Turismo has featured concept cars in the past, the difference is the VGT program has beenfocused on creating concept cars specifically for Gran Turismo. IMO they are a very interesting idea and have a place, but I can see why people dislike them and there is maybe an argument the VGT to production road/real race car ratio is too high.

 

[Rob192005]

Not go,but remember GT Concept? they shoulda done something like that with them instead of clogging up a regular game.

 

[TFSI400]

Completely agree.

These are not concept cars, they’re pure fantasy cars. They’re ‘capable’ of things that just aren’t possible. They’re cheat cars.

They appeal to players who don’t really appreciate Gran Turismo’s original ethos - realism. That’s realism in the locations, the events, the tuning, and the cars themselves.

If VGT cars are ok, shall we have some VGT tracks? Like the surface of Jupiter? Or tuning parts, like maybe a rocket engine in the roulette?

All these cars do is pull the game back a step from being taken seriously as ‘realistic’ and push it a step towards being a ‘gamey’ arcade experience. They devalue the aspects of the game that create that immersion. They attract players that are only interested in the ‘biggest / strongest / fastest’, players that do not appreciate cars, and think that winning a race is simply getting to the winning line first regardless of how many walls they’ve run and cars they’ve bumped in getting there.

The number of times I’ve seen “jus get da Tomahawk itz sik” in replies to posts on these forums says it all. And I get the feeling some of these Tomahawk advocates probably don’t even make the distinction between that car and actual REAL cars that are subject to the limitations of.. you know.. reality.

They’re bad for the game. They’re toy cars that appeal to players that use them as such. Burn them all.

 

[Wheatybic]

i just cant get over how similar they all look, like you have free reign to do whatever for a car and you guys all made them in the same style..

 

[wheelhp]

I like the idea and even some of the designs but some look awfully derivative. What's worse for me is how many shared engine sounds etc and the implementation of them into the various racing classes from GT6- GTSport were always weird

 

[DodgySyrup]

I like them.

They are, appropriately, very unique and interesting visually and usually have ridiculous speed.

Any imbalance they create in online races is down to poor game design and/or exploits.

Personally, I think they add some variety to the car list.

 

[mwoodski]

I enjoy them a ton. Fully drivable concept cars are a fantastic addition to any game and it gets the manufacture more involved. If folks don't like them that's their thing.

 

[HarVee]

The people who are against them and make the argument of realism are hilarious.

Yes because having fantasy cars not bound by the limits of reality in a video game which in it self is not bound by the limits of reality is somehow bad. Nice logic.

 

[NJ72]

Question for people who hate VGTs - what's your take on the Redbull x20whatever cars?

 

[meekrab]

I would have no issue with the VGT cars if they didn’t get bunched in with real cars, the first week of daily races at Deep Forest featuring VGT cars at the top of the leader board constantly is frustrating.

If they were in their own class/segment I have no issue, but they shouldn’t be intermingled.

Yeah, the issue there is that the game has what, 3 different ways to stratify races now, besides provided car races? PP, car groups, and horsepower limits, and they decided to feature one of the unbalanced bad ones in the first week.

Question for people who hate VGTs - what's your take on the Redbull x20whatever cars?

Difference there is they're intended as one-make series cars, not to race against other cars, so them being unbalanced is not an issue. I personally like them, GT is lacking in high downforce low mass cars like open wheelers, though with the SuperFormula now that's not so much an issue.

 

[Racer93]

If you hate only the Tomahawks and Chaparral VGTs because they clearly doesn't seem to answer to the same laws of physics as we all do, it's understandable. If you also hate the Gr. 1 versions of VGTs, I can also perfectly understand, because they clearly shouldn't belong to the same class as Group C machines and 2016 LMPs belong. But some VGTs are real cars indeed. The Bugatti VGT is real and is pretty much an early concept of Bugatti Chiron, the Mercedes and Audi E-Tron VGT are real cars as well and so are some others. Why wouldn't they belong in a GT game?

 

[nickg07]

Question for people who hate VGTs - what's your take on the Redbull x20whatever cars?

Not my cup of tea. But if they could be excluded from everything except Redbull events then fine.

 

[Nagaremono]

Question for people who hate VGTs - what's your take on the Redbull x20whatever cars?

Screechy, whiney, manic crap. Horner in car form.

Fine to have them in game (as with VGTs in general) as long as they stay in their own races.

It’s the mixing real racers with the fantasy and semi-fantasy stuff that messes things up for me. I’m driving a 919, I pass a TS050, fine, I pass a 787B, ‘Hmm, bit odd, old GrC racing a 919, but never mind’, I pass a VgT, ‘Whoa, WTF was that?’ - immersion gone, suspension of disbelief shot to bits.

 

[Terronium-12]

I'll say this much, I don't hate them at all. In fact, they're strongly reminiscent of the dream/fictional cars in the older games (FTO LM Edition in GT1-3, Alteeza LM, etc, etc.), so in that regard I'm more than alright with them. My issue is when the VGT, 100% fictional cars that are tantamount to walking up to a car designer and saying "Whatever your wildest design thoughts are, put them down on paper", don't have interiors.

That doesn't make a lick of sense to me.

Having said all of that, if the VGT cars somehow actively take resources away from obtaining newer, more modern cars, then they have to be relaxed. How GT7 doesn't have the 488 GTB is beyond me. Hell, how it doesn't have the Camry TRD is beyond my comprehension. Yay, we finally have the Carrera GT. Where's the 918 Spyder? Or the P1?

How do you have the LaFerrari, but not the remaining two in the hybrid trinity? Excuse me?

Sorry, this has turned into a rant upon another rant.

 

[TFSI400]

If you hate only the Tomahawks and Chaparral VGTs because they clearly doesn't seem to answer to the same laws of physics as we all do, it's understandable. If you also hate the Gr. 1 versions of VGTs, I can also perfectly understand, because they clearly shouldn't belong to the same class as Group C machines and 2016 LMPs belong. But some VGTs are real cars indeed. The Bugatti VGT is real and is pretty much an early concept of Bugatti Chiron, the Mercedes and Audi E-Tron VGT are real cars as well and so are some others. Why wouldn't they belong in a GT game?

A fair point, and something I failed to make the distinction between.

Yes, REAL VGTs I’m absolutely fine with. It’s the comic-book 500mph crap that just has no place.

 

[Nagaremono]

OK. Question for people who like VGTs. What’s too much? If Dick Dastardly and Muttley show up in their purple rocket car, you gonna race them with a straight face?

 

[meekrab]

I'll say this much, I don't hate them at all. In fact, they're strongly reminiscent of the dream/fictional cars in the older games (FTO LM Edition in GT1-3, Alteeza LM, etc, etc.), so in that regard I'm more than alright with them. My issue is when the VGT, 100% fictional cars that are tantamount to walking up to a car designer and saying "Whatever your wildest design thoughts are, put them down on paper", don't have interiors.

That doesn't make a lick of sense to me.

Having said all of that, if the VGT cars somehow actively take resources away from obtaining newer, more modern cars, then they have to be relaxed. How GT7 doesn't have the 488 GTB is beyond me. Hell, how it doesn't have the Camry TRD is beyond my comprehension. Yay, we finally have the Carrera GT. Where's the 918 Spyder? Or the P1?

How do you have the LaFerrari, but not the remaining two in the hybrid trinity? Excuse me?

Sorry, this has turned into a rant upon another rant.

I don't really agree, the "LM" fantasy cars in the early games were a workaround past the fact that they didn't have a lot of real-life licensed racecars. They were more or less balanced against each other in terms of power and weight and suspension setups could do the rest.

Most of the VGT cars are completely useless; they're either in group X with no races for them to even run or they're horribly slow in their assigned class. (Perhaps outside of group 1 at SSRX, an utterly pointless race itself.) Or, as we saw in the first week, they have a hybrid power pack and are eligible for a race where that completely breaks the meta. Just silly stuff.

And yeah, if we get a Chevrolet VGT instead of a Corvette C8 Z06 I won't be all that happy.