Unpopular Opinions- Cars in General

  • Thread starter Turbo
  • 1,718 comments
  • 169,885 views
JC_Dude
As I said, I hate the Focus RS, so I don't base anything that I say on it. The Golf R, for instance is rated at 7.1l/100km average, while the Mustang GT at 13.5, both in the manual variant. The A45 AMG, the most powerful hatch on sale, at 7.3 (auto only), the BMW M140i at 7.8 (manual), so as you can see, super hatches DO use way less fuel.
Click to expand...
JC_Dude
What part of "I don't care about the RS." do you not understand?
Click to expand...
And what part of "in the real world" do you not understand? I can copy paste fuel economy data too:
https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=37298&id=36402&id=36441&id=37029

Now, I've seen some of the more truly laughable ratings that the EU testing cycle spits out; and Famine has done a good job explaining why they are so occasionally absurd as well; but at least cross checking the Golf with EPA ones seems to mostly check out. However, keeping in mind that the Focus RS doesn't actually rate too terribly out of line with the others in EU testing, when does the "way less fuel" usage actually apply to any of them, and how are you quantifying "way less"?


JC_Dude
On the highway you can go as low as 6l/100km in the Golf or BMW.
Click to expand...

And if you drive a Corvette similarly like a candy ass you can squeak under 7l/100 km as well. Is 6l/100 km "half of the fuel" as 7l/100km, and how in line with normal driving situations is the supposed 6l/100km number in the first place?
 
Last edited:
I base what I say on ratings, because that's the data I have available to me. I haven't driven all of these cars for extensive amounts of time to be able to objectively rate their economy on my experience, and in ratings cars like the Mustang, Corvette, ord whatever else use about 80% more fuel than the hatches.
 
JC_Dude
I base what I say on ratings, because that's the data I have available to me.
Click to expand...
That's already not true, since "real world economy of car X" isn't a difficult thing to type into your web browser, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you haven't just been cherry picking information this whole time.


I'll instead just ask for you to explain this bit here:
JC_Dude
What part of "I don't care about the RS." do you not understand? It's a terrible car and uses loads of fuel. The German competition uses much less.
Click to expand...
Because according to EU ratings, the Focus RS only is off the BMW's fuel usage by .3l/100km (7.8 vs 8.1). That's neither loads of fuel for the Focus nor is the German competition in this case using much less.

Or say where this bit came from:
On the highway you can go as low as 6l/100km in the Golf or BMW.
Click to expand...
Because I can't see any official fuel ratings that say that either of those cars can get the US equivalent of 39 mpg on the highway. In fact, I can't see anyone on Volkswagen fan forums saying that they have matched the EU highway ratings in the first place, let alone exceed them by nearly 20%.
 
Last edited:
JC_Dude
What part of "I don't care about the RS." do you not understand? It's a terrible car and uses loads of fuel. The German competition uses much less. On the highway you can go as low as 6l/100km in the Golf or BMW.
Click to expand...
I do understand, and you can cut the attitude. Though it's not even slightly a "terrible car" - it's a brilliant one, that just happens to be a bit expensive when Ford also offers a V8 Mustang for not dissimilar money, and a thirsty one that somewhat disproves the theory that turbocharged engines use less fuel.

And I'm not entirely convinced that applies to any of its rivals either. The Golf is certainly less thirsty, but I've spent a lot of time in the R too and it seems to return in the region of 30mpg (against an official 40+, all UK gallons). The BMW, being a turbocharged straight six rather than a smaller four, I'd not expect to be much better.
JC_Dude
I haven't driven all of these cars for extensive amounts of time
Click to expand...
I suspect that's overstating things somewhat.
MatskiMonk
Expensive, yes. Pointless, No.
Click to expand...
Bit of both, though the latter is subjective. I certainly spent a lot more time frustrated at being unable to use much of a fast car's performance than I do enjoying that performance. However, there are always times it's nice to have access to that performance even if you can't use all of it (overtaking, for instance).
 
@homeforsummer

I understand that what most modern performance cars offer is far in excess of what can usefully be used these days... ... if ... you're driving legally. The 18 points I've had over the years disallow me from pretending that I do.

We have some great roads in the UK, and I very much subscribe to driving up to the limit of your ability, the cars capability and what's sensible for the road... whichever of those comes first... sadly too often these days all of those speeds are faster than the legal limit. Around me, that tends to be because motorbikes drive to whichever of those is the highest, and then die, or because the council doesn't want to resurface the road more than once every 60 years... but that's probably another issue..

... I would have much more fun in an M140i than I do in a 120d, and I'm honest enough to admit that a lot of that fun would be at higher speeds than than the signs allow. Supercars and Hypercars have gotten silly for road use, but general performance cars i think still have a place.
 
Last edited:
MatskiMonk
... I would have much more fun in an M140i than I do in a 120d, and I'm honest enough to admit that a lot of that fun would be at higher speeds than than the signs allow. Supercars and Hypercars have gotten silly for road use, but general performance cars i think still have a place.
Click to expand...
Oh yeah, absolutely. I suppose it depends what was meant by the original term "performance car" really. For me the sweet spot is between 200-300bhp, though probably closer to the former if I really want to feel like I'm getting the best from a car (even a ~200bhp Fiesta ST can get you in a hell of a lot of trouble, given the available pace).

The performance dilemma is one reason I tend to gravitate towards cars I find interesting rather than outright fast cars though. The ideal for me is a car I enjoy driving whether I'm going quickly or not. Classics hit the mark as you're always involved in the process. And I absolutely love silly stuff like the Morgan 3 Wheeler - of all the stuff I've driven in the last few years it remains the car I think I'd spend my "last gallon of fuel" on.

And I suppose some of the above could qualify as an unpopular opinion, at least as far as keyboard warrior consensus is concerned: A car need not be fast to be fun.
 
- Car people are responsible for the death of the culture due to elitism, childish willy waving and stubborn hatred of anything that isn't to their personal taste.

Regardless of a car's true ability or what it means to somebody else these people will tear anything apart simply because they don't like it. As an owner of cars that attract this sort of attention from many corners of the car world, it can be extremely rude and insulting. It's more than enough to not want to go anywhere where you'll cross paths with such people again.

Petrol heads need to learn to get along and appreciate a car, even if they don't like it, or our already doomed hobby will be dead much, much faster.
 
Hayden
- Car people are responsible for the death of the culture due to elitism, childish willy waving and stubborn hatred of anything that isn't to their personal taste. Regardless of a car's true ability or what it means to somebody else.
Click to expand...
To be fair all those things occur in any culture, and they haven't self-imploded.
 
Hayden
- Car people are responsible for the death of the culture due to elitism, childish willy waving and stubborn hatred of anything that isn't to their personal taste.

Regardless of a car's true ability or what it means to somebody else these people will tear anything apart simply because they don't like it. As an owner of cars that attract this sort of attention from many corners of the car world, it can be extremely rude and insulting. It's more than enough to not want to go anywhere where you'll cross paths with such people again.

Petrol heads need to learn to get along and appreciate a car, even if they don't like it, or our already doomed hobby will be dead much, much faster.
Click to expand...

People exercising their right to state an opinion on the internet, irrespective of whether it is polite, reasonable and inkeeping with the feelings of the rest of the people they are talking to.. they are the problem, and they are not restricted to car culture. It's like following the technical regulations, but not the sporting regulations.
 
C_R5_575TLR
To be fair all those things occur in any culture, and they haven't self-imploded.
Click to expand...
True while that is, car culture is slightly different to most. A heavy metal fan doesn't go to a country concert then complain about the music to those who love it. A vegan doesn't (normally) go to a steakhouse and tell everyone how stupid they are for not buying broccoli instead. A rugby fan doesn't go to a soccer game and tell all the diehards that it's a 🤬 sport and that the players are "soft."

Car culture is unique because it's small enough that we all get lumped in together and any decent sized meet will attract people from every sect of it. Many of those, from personal experience, take such a "my way or the highway" approach that any worthwhile conversation is impossible.

If people just looked at a car they didn't like, shrugged their shoulders then moved on, even if they joked about it with their buddies later, the car world would be a much nicer place to be.

@Tornado- While a very fair point, I don't think the two are completely unrelated. While fashions come and go, the people who are left when the fad followers leave still have to deal with the culture left behind. I can't speak of what the car world was like 10+ years ago but here and now, it's a very negative place to be.

@MatskiMonk- While I agree that people's opinions aren't worth nearly as much as they think they are, I still think they have value. Particularly when they are to adress a specific issue or problem. "Turbos are crap and you can't tell me otherwise because I drive a V8" and "we need to try to be nicer and more accepting" are, in my opinion, not the same kind of opinion.

Edit: I feel it's important to point out that I'm not directly pointing this at the GTP community. It's a fantastic place to be and the people here tend to be very kind, accepting and welcoming.
 
Last edited:
Hayden
True while that is, car culture is slightly different to most. A heavy metal fan doesn't go to a country concert then complain about the music to those who love it. A vegan doesn't (normally) go to a steakhouse and tell everyone how stupid they are for not buying broccoli instead. A rugby fan doesn't go to a soccer game and tell all the diehards that it's a 🤬 sport and that the players are "soft."

Car culture is unique because it's small enough that we all get lumped in together and any decent sized meet will attract people from every sect of it. Many of those, from personal experience, take such a "my way or the highway" approach that any worthwhile conversation is impossible.

If people just looked at a car they didn't like, shrugged their shoulders then moved on, even if they joked about it with their buddies later, the car world would be a much nicer place to be.
Click to expand...
I don't think car culture is in any way different to the cultures you listed, I mean I'm not able to speak from 1st hand experience of a car meet especially, I've only really been to 1, but I can tell you there is a huge divide between reality and the Internet. People will talk all sorts of crap online, mainly due to a lack of needing face to face interaction and the fact you can hide behind a username easily.

Edit because I hit the post button by accident: your examples differ from the car culture because you're using 2 completely different cultures, if you look at each individual culture you'll find the same level of infighting and elitism between fans of different bands/teams/whatever as in car culture.

I get your point about car meets attracting all different sub-cultures but, again, how is that unique to the car culture?
 
Last edited:
C_R5_575TLR
I don't think car culture is in any way different to the cultures you listed...
Click to expand...
While true that people argue over teams, bands etc, the real world attitudes of these are different. The Internet, as you rightly say, is a completely different animal and I can't agree enough that people change when they have no face and a made up name. Regardless of what the discussion is about, people feel they are right and it's their right to be right and that's the end of discussion.

I'm not talking so much about the Internet here as I am real world get togethers. Music festivals, from my own experience are very welcoming and accepting places to be. Mostly because if someone doesn't like the band that's performing, they'll just go to a different stage to see someone they do like. Sports fans can be horrendous, but at the end of the day the result determines the winner and loser and everybody goes home, satisfied or otherwise. Personal insults are directed at players who can't hear them, and a vast majority of people are just there to enjoy the spectacle.

The way I see it, that real car people differ, is that they bring a similar attitude to Internet users to real world encounters. The attitude, particularly at open meets and shows rather than Motorsport events or cruises, is one of battle lines and egos. Not based on fact but blind and unblinking allegiance to a group. Red vs Blue, V8 vs Turbo, Go vs Show, Drag vs Drift, etc, etc.

Disrespect is pointed directly at someone and their car. Putting aside the time, money and passion thats gone into a machine, purely because it isn't what you like and giving no room for discussion. These people are basically throwing out Facebook comments, but it's the real world and the real owner is standing two meters away. Like i said, it's fine to not like something but you don't need to be an arse about it.

It's the us vs them mindset that divides car people into ever smaller groups. My belief is that this has driven people away from the scene, because they'd rather sit at home than spend hours and thousands of dollars on something just to be insulted. It's also my opinion that this has contributed, and will continue to contribute, to the decline of the car "scene."

The best comparison I can honestly think of is religion, where (at the risk of starting a whole different discussion) i believe similar attitudes of "I'm completely right, your completely wrong let's not talk about it" exists. It creates conflicts that drive out anybody but the most passionate and we have situations like what Christianity faces. So many subsecs all facing decline as people become disenchanted in the face of a changing world. This can also be attributed to what Tornado pointed out as falling out of mainstream but I feel these attitudes do contribute and in a strong way.

At the end of the day, all I'm saying is we should try to be nicer too each other to prevent pushing people that may be new, partly interested or those becoming less so, away. The car world is declining and by being rude and harsh too each other in the real world, we aren't helping things at all.
 
@Hayden as I said I can't comment with too much accuracy on car meets, but from what I've seen they're nowhere near what you describe. Maybe it's a problem overseas but here in the UK we just... all get along.

Edit: just as an aside; any specific examples of car meets being as terrible as you're describing?
 
Last edited:
The internet really blows things out of proportion. Car people usually find common ground in the real real world. The internet would have you believe war breaks out every time rival cars share the road. My ride to work is usually peppered with newer Challengers, Mustangs, and Camaros. While there are occasional moments of hoonery, most mornings everyone just goes about their commute. The same applies to the big 3 diesel 2500s, they usually all play nice.

My advice is even if you find a particular brand, engine type, or vehicle type unattractive to have an open mind about it at least.

Pushrods suck, 4 Cylinders suck, Wankels suck, Automatic cars suck... I could go on forever, and that really does suck...
 
  • The R33 is my favorite Skyline generation.
  • Rotary engines have the best sound out of any car.
  • All Audis nowadays (with the exception of the R8 and the TT) are as boring as hell.
  • I think the LaFerrari actually looks pretty good.
 
C_R5_575TLR
@Hayden as I said I can't comment with too much accuracy on car meets, but from what I've seen they're nowhere near what you describe. Maybe it's a problem overseas but here in the UK we just... all get along.

Edit: just as an aside; any specific examples of car meets being as terrible as you're describing?
Click to expand...
For the most part car meets here, so long as they have a common theme, are friendly and reasonably kind. The problem I'm describing is with large, open meets. Specifically it tends to be people walking around in packs of like minded people, directing insults at cars and owners with different taste to their own. A group of Commodore owners making an absoloute mockery of someone and their Rocket Bunny 180sx for example. A couple people I overheard talking about the wheels on a car looking absoloutly horrible and how it should be burnt to the ground.

There's also the time I've been told "you're an absoloute idiot for buying an 86. They're gutless and you could've got a second hand turbo falcon for that price." Then there's the time someone called my convertible 300zx gay, in an incredibly offensive way, straight to my face. All these things happened at large, open meets by people who would call themselves car guys. I get that there are bad apples in every community, but it just seems to be so much more prevelant amongst these types of car folk.

Like I've said before, I'm fine with people not liking everything, there are plenty of cars I dislike, but these people are such 🤬 about it that it makes you question if you want to be thought of as a car person at all.

Thankfully, as I said, Motorsport and GTPlanet people are in my experience, far nicer. This could just be a regional thing, or I've had some bad luck, but I think people should try to be more accepting and welcoming.
 

Similar threads

R55NA
Stereotypical cars driven by old people in your country?
Replies
22
Views
3K
Aaronhuang
Aaronhuang
Turbo
Gran Turismo Unpopular Opinions Thread
25 26 27
Replies
794
Views
74K
sirjim73
sirjim73
F
What are the best car news websites?
Replies
3
Views
2K
Cano
Cano
Carbonox
Unpopular Opinions - General Thread
99 100 101
Replies
3K
Views
205K
Liquid
Liquid
C
Stock vehicle vs. upgraded vehicle
Replies
10
Views
3K
BlackHGT
BlackHGT

Latest Posts

Back