Update 1.03 - What exactly happened to the MR cars?

[OdeFinn]

@teth75, apologies for what, car is not broken, not been able to test pitting(what said already on earlier post), no insults than few "learn to drive"-type comments (what people toke wrong, not my problem), and still standing behind that.
Never said at there is no problem on Pitstops, tested it with Spurgy777 on his lobby under a hour ago, and we both know now at there is problem, and how wide that problem is is known now, problem considers hole game.

If someone feel bad from my earlier posts they have all rights to come forward and say it.

 

[stb155]

This thread needs new name.
I installed GT6 again from scratch to get pitstops working on On-Line, and yes there is definitely a BIG Problem on game physics on before and after pitstop. Every car, every tire compound, on all cars are affected with it.
Problem of pitstops are on FF/FR/MR/RR/4WD so ALL cars.

About MR cars like Oreca or Ultra etc. problem is easier to notice.
So no particular problem considering MR cars, just a huge bug on game considering those pitstops.
After pitstop game changes tire grip higher and you'll notice it as your car drivetrain and setup is made, some feels understeer some oversteer, depends your setup and drivetrain.

Thank You for the testing !

I always had the feeling that this is also affecting street cars (in the "S" races) but could not proof it.

 

[teth75]

@teth75, apologies for what, car is not broken, not been able to test pitting(what said already on earlier post), no insults than few "learn to drive"-type comments (what people toke wrong, not my problem), and still standing behind that.
Never said at there is no problem on Pitstops, tested it with Spurgy777 on his lobby under a hour ago, and we both know now at there is problem, and how wide that problem is is known now, problem considers hole game.

If someone feel bad from my earlier posts they have all rights to come forward and say it.

Sorry it was supposed to be @Scaff but must have forgot to reply doh! Sorry for any confusion lol

 

[GordonS]

@teth75, apologies for what, car is not broken, not been able to test pitting(what said already on earlier post), no insults than few "learn to drive"-type comments (what people toke wrong, not my problem), and still standing behind that.
Never said at there is no problem on Pitstops, tested it with Spurgy777 on his lobby under a hour ago, and we both know now at there is problem, and how wide that problem is is known now, problem considers hole game.

If someone feel bad from my earlier posts they have all rights to come forward and say it.

Whut?
So there isn't anymore the back tyre wear problem after pit stop? But a new problem?.. But what kind of a problem? Considering general vehicle physics??

 

[OdeFinn]

@GordonS, game add more grip to all tyres after pitstop, all cars/tyre compounds/drivetrains are affected by this bug.

 

[vass0131]

I have not been able to play until last night and noticed a huge change in the way some of the cars handle and i would say its horrendous with some cars.

Honda HSV was one of the best cars to drive for me as it suited my aggressive driving style and now it handles the corners like a swinging brick i just get no confidence out of the car and feel i cant push it like pre patches.

 

[GordonS]

Ok, thanks Ode.

 

[wowbaggerBR]

This thread needs new name.
I installed GT6 again from scratch to get pitstops working on On-Line, and yes there is definitely a BIG Problem on game physics on before and after pitstop. Every car, every tire compound, on all cars are affected with it.
Problem of pitstops are on FF/FR/MR/RR/4WD so ALL cars.

About MR cars like Oreca or Ultra etc. problem is easier to notice.
So no particular problem considering MR cars, just a huge bug on game considering those pitstops.
After pitstop game changes tire grip higher and you'll notice it as your car drivetrain and setup is made, some feels understeer some oversteer, depends your setup and drivetrain.

Thanks, OdeFinn.

I've been posting about this idea that the real problem is the tires and the pits, not the drivetrain layout of the cars. Like you, I do believe that the MR cars are ok.

Now I'm not feeling a "moron that doesn't know how to drive", etc, etc, etc, anymore.

 

[andryush]

X-post from another thread, but it's about new MR physics...




Before 1.03, for about 2500 of kilometters i was developing a setup for R8 LMS Ultra. I came to decent results. The setup was great, my R8 was really fast. Just before patch 1.03 came out, i was little tired of this car, so I abandoned it and didn't actually drive it after the patch.

I just tried it again, and guess what? PD has broken my setup by changing MR physics My beloved R8 LMS drives now like there's some huge controller input lag!!!! it actually turns dozen of miliseconds after i move analogue sticks! where is great responsiveness of this car?!

PD, what have you done? Bring back old physics!


+ MR cars feel like floating above the track.

 

[AleksandarSRB]

Diablo is much easier to drive now

 

[andryush]

For me R8 LMS became broken after this patch. Before it was tricky car, but with proper setup it was great. I'm 5-10 seconds slower on Nordschleife now ;/

XBOW before the patch was better too. It was really responsive and sensitive to steering input. After 1.03 it became dull and heavy.

I really don't like what they have done to MR cars...they floating above the track, responsiveness is gone.

 

[sumbrownkid]

For me R8 LMS became broken after this patch. Before it was tricky car, but with proper setup it was great. I'm 5-10 seconds slower on Nordschleife now ;/

XBOW before the patch was better too. It was really responsive and sensitive to steering input. After 1.03 it became dull and heavy.

I really don't like what they have done to MR cars...they floating above the track, responsiveness is gone.

Eh I'll be the devil's advocate and have to disagree with this. For me, the LMS was an evil thing of a car before the update and only Ridox's set-up, though as extreme as it would be in real life, actually help me tame it. After the update, I can ease up on the set up and be more confident in the stability of the damn thing during braking and low speed cornering. As for responsiveness and sensitivity to steering input, I honestly can't really tell a difference between 1.02 and 1.03, but I do use a DS3 controller so sensitivity is already a forgone conclusion compared to a wheel.

 

[mu22stang]

...My problem is not whether or not the car handles realistically. I have no idea what's realistic or not pertaining to every car in GT...What I'm saying is that my lap times between sports hard and racing hard is too similar...Heck, I even tried SRF, and it was still a bit of struggle, although capable...I'm not exactly a noob with settings or driving...If you haven't tried the car yourself, then there's no point in quoting and replying to my posts...Racing Softs and SRFs, it can easily be a challenge for the majority.

So you don't care about realism, but, you do. Got it.

It's not uncommon for a setup that's fantastic for a lower grade tire to be a horrible setup for a higher grade tire. So, how is that unrealistic?

SRF had no business in the discussion. But good to know on the non-newb clarification.

I have tried the car, but not with SRF or racing softs, so maybe my opinion doesn't matter.

 

[nasanu]

So how do I recreate this pitstop bug? I want to test it myself, I am always dubious of people on here claiming things, most people can trick themselves into believing anything is happening. Even with laptime data, that data was created when you were driving with thoughts in your head about what you expect to happen. Maybe you made it happen? Anyway how do I test myself? What tyres, what track setting (real or low?), what degradation setting and what mode?

I've raced a lot in online races requiring a pitstop, never noticed a difference in lap times beyond normal variance.

 

[iLex]

Last time I looked this thread was supposed to be about the alleged 'fix' of the handling of MR cars…

 

[andryush]

Eh I'll be the devil's advocate and have to disagree with this. For me, the LMS was an evil thing of a car before the update and only Ridox's set-up, though as extreme as it would be in real life, actually help me tame it. After the update, I can ease up on the set up and be more confident in the stability of the damn thing during braking and low speed cornering. As for responsiveness and sensitivity to steering input, I honestly can't really tell a difference between 1.02 and 1.03, but I do use a DS3 controller so sensitivity is already a forgone conclusion compared to a wheel.

Responsiveness isn't only case of R8 LMS. I tried XBOW Street and it feels "muted" too...probably all cars are affected. In R8 LMS it was more pronounced to me because it's a racing car, which is made to react fast to drivers inputs.

Yes, many people complained about R8 before patch, it was unusable in stock settings, but it was possible to tune this car so it behave well and drive very fast. Probably those who was whining were people who didn't know how to tune suspension for this car.

Also I'm DS3 user too, and i liked pre 1.03 physics more. It was more responsive.

 

[nasanu]

Also I'm DS3 user too, and i liked pre 1.03 physics more. It was more responsive.

I have found the opposite. The xbow turns more now, especially under braking. I can drift it through corners and throw it far better than previously.

 

[andryush]

I have found the opposite. The xbow turns more now, especially under braking. I can drift it through corners and throw it far better than previously.

It is easier to drive, but it lacks that unique, harsh character it had before. I prefer that harshness of MR cars over this floaty feeling that we have now.

 

[stb155]

This thread needs new name.
I installed GT6 again from scratch to get pitstops working on On-Line, and yes there is definitely a BIG Problem on game physics on before and after pitstop. Every car, every tire compound, on all cars are affected with it.
Problem of pitstops are on FF/FR/MR/RR/4WD so ALL cars.

About MR cars like Oreca or Ultra etc. problem is easier to notice.
So no particular problem considering MR cars, just a huge bug on game considering those pitstops.
After pitstop game changes tire grip higher and you'll notice it as your car drivetrain and setup is made, some feels understeer some oversteer, depends your setup and drivetrain.

Did you install the patch(es) before you did the testing ?

Did you notice any changes before/after patch ?

 

[phil_75]

Been doing some testing in the R8 LMS's today, and it seems the Ultra's have been given a more understeery default setup than the Oreca, and that the Phoenix has 900 rear downforce instead of 650 like the other two, which is why it is more stable that the basic Ultra and much more stable than the Oreca.

Here's an Oreca/Ultra default setup comparison.

Oreca:
Ride: 85/90
Springs: 15.91/22.48
Dampers: 4/4 4/4
ARB: 3/3 3/3
Camber: 0.0/0.0
Toe: 0.00/0.20

Ultra:
Ride: 50/55
Spring: 14.72/20.86
Dampers: 4/4 4/4
ARB: 3/3
Camber 3.0/1.0
Toe: -0.30/0.40

As you can see the camber, toe and ride height is massively different meaning the Oreca has a lot of random snap oversteer, and after the pit, when the car becomes more understeery, feels fixed.

The basic Ultra which has a more understeey setup but the same downforce has much more controllable snaps of oversteer before the stop, then understeers after the stop, meaning you get similar lap times but with reversed handling.

And the Ultra Phoenix, which I assumed would be the same as the basic one which is why I haven't tested it until today, is stable before the stop thanks to it's extra 250 rear downforce and understeery setup, but has way too much understeer after the stop making it slower.

Also starting to get tired of these childish, insulting "learn to drive better" posts.

They had those settings in 1.02 though.

 

[Spurgy 777]

They had those settings in 1.02 though.

Probably did, my point was that people were testing the Ultra Phoenix, which, thanks to it's default settings, is a lot easier to drive before a pit stop than the Oreca and that probably lead to all the "it's easy, you just have to learn how to drive" posts.

 

[OdeFinn]

@stb155, 1.03 (1265mb) and that newest 99mb plus one "ninja-update", offering nothing else. Luckily PD has figured out Cumulative update packets
So at this moment you can't even install other versions than vanilla or 1.03, for test I had those three updates installed.

 

[GordonS]

This thread needs new name.
I installed GT6 again from scratch to get pitstops working on On-Line, and yes there is definitely a BIG Problem on game physics on before and after pitstop. Every car, every tire compound, on all cars are affected with it.
Problem of pitstops are on FF/FR/MR/RR/4WD so ALL cars.

About MR cars like Oreca or Ultra etc. problem is easier to notice.
So no particular problem considering MR cars, just a huge bug on game considering those pitstops.
After pitstop game changes tire grip higher and you'll notice it as your car drivetrain and setup is made, some feels understeer some oversteer, depends your setup and drivetrain.

Just tested this with Ode. The change in grip levels with the yellow blue Audi is clear as daylight after pit stop, even with RH tyres and ABS 1 on.
After pit stop the renewed grip levels secured my driving so that I could beat my first stint time by nearly 0.7 second, using RS tyres.
For example, at the flat and smoothly paved Tsukuba the difference between stints may not be as noticeable but using the kerbs reveals the differences easily.

 

[stb155]

Are you all faster after the stop ?or is this dependent on car/setup and driving style ?
Are you sure it INCREASES grip after stop ?

So far i was always slower* (not much but slower) after stop and had increaswed rear wear, both the opposite i would expect from more grip.

*with different cars, the ultra Ph. not with standard setup and driving with DS3

This bug really sucks, as the one with brake bias...

I can't test myself before thursday

 

[SillyBillyP]

I've posted a poll to find out whether GTplanet users think the physics has changed since the 1.03 update:
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/update-1-03-poll-has-the-physics-changed.297757/

Let's get your vote

 

[Zlork]

I have not been able to play until last night and noticed a huge change in the way some of the cars handle and i would say its horrendous with some cars.

Honda HSV was one of the best cars to drive for me as it suited my aggressive driving style and now it handles the corners like a swinging brick i just get no confidence out of the car and feel i cant push it like pre patches.

I have not seen any difference.

 

[OdeFinn]

@stb155, More grip or it is also possible at car starts to weight more after pitstop, so grip or gravity, car feels slower on overall and has more grip, reason either gravity or just grip, some cars become much easier to drive after pitstop and some cars not.
Team Oreca R8 LMS and Team Phoenix R8 LMS Ultra are nice pair, Oreca comes much easier car after pitstop, near to same speed (on my driving style), but Ultra instead comes so heavy after pitstop at its just super understeering bullet after pitting it, and nowhere at same laps after pit.

 

[GordonS]

@ the shorter Brands Hatch today I tested my brand new Arta NSX, non tuned with RH tyres. What a brilliant car!
After the pit stop the car was degraded as hell. Lost completely it's agility and understeered so that I dropped far behind my best lap time.
So, a car doesn't always get faster after the magical pit stop.
This is a real issue now and prevents some people organize longer races. I too hope this will be fixed soon.

 

[Griffith500]

@stb155, More grip or it is also possible at car starts to weight more after pitstop, so grip or gravity, car feels slower on overall and has more grip, reason either gravity or just grip, some cars become much easier to drive after pitstop and some cars not.
Team Oreca R8 LMS and Team Phoenix R8 LMS Ultra are nice pair, Oreca comes much easier car after pitstop, near to same speed (on my driving style), but Ultra instead comes so heavy after pitstop at its just super understeering bullet after pitting it, and nowhere at same laps after pit.

I'd initially thought that perhaps the game wasn't taking fuel weight into account at the start, but does after the first pit stop. That would add weight to the front of RR and MR cars, "stabilising" them a bit, whilst just slowing FR and FF cars down in the main. There's possibly also a tyre issue on top of that, it's very hard to tell what's really happening.

 

[Astro_BS-AS]

Hey, guys... I´m at work now, but please those of you who can start GT6 now, go to Cote d´Azur with a FF car and try to do a stoppie.

This and only this.

I´ve written about how the odd weight transfer causes the MR cars to behave strange under braking, and the FF cars to do stoppies. Not broke cars (apart from the custom wheel bug that has been fixed) or stupid driving. Just the weight transfer someway faster than it should...

So, to shed some light to the physics issue, please go with a FF car and brake hard on the uphill straight after the first corner. If the FF car lift the back wheels like it is a bike, then the physics hasn´t changed much... If not, they had and it`s a really good thing.

Please, let us know your findings.

(and please excuse my english...)