Update 1.03 - What exactly happened to the MR cars?

[Scaff]

How was the source incorrect?

TCS and ABS are not permitted in the DTM (despite the article saying so), I double checked with the actual DTM sporting regs.

 

[Spurgy 777]

Please, could you describe how the test session was. I'm not able to view your recording.
I'm about to contribute soon.
By the way, nice to see you here Ode

The first 10 laps I was having the usual trouble of random late mid-corner snaps of oversteer, this meant I was really having to fight the car, waiting for it to snap and getting ready to countersteer and catch the car, which I'm quite good at round Brands Indy now, since I've done so many laps

I then pitted, refuelling the car of course, and on the second stint the random snaps of oversteer were gone meaning I could carry more speed around the slower corners and could get on the power earlier.

This difference in handling meant my fastest time before the pit stop was a 43.088 (0.3 seconds up on my previous PB) and my fastest lap afterwards was a 42.397, which probably could have been faster seeing as my second fastest time was a 42.4 on the lap after my out-lap.

The tyre wear was 9/10 on the front and 9/9 on the rear before the pit-stop and 9/9 8/9 before the end of the race. However the extra tyre wear could be because I was going faster, the stints weren't long enough to tell.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

TCS and ABS are not permitted in the DTM (despite the article saying so), I double checked with the actual DTM sporting regs.

Where does it say so in the article?

 

[GordonS]

^^
Thanks Spurgy 777.
I tested the Audi stock at Tsukuba online with RS tyres, which are abit rare under my cars. Environment settings were natural (no SRF etc.). ABS 1, BB 5-5 and tyre/fuel wear were Very Fast.
18 laps with one pit stop at lap 9.
The data I collected was Lap Times, Tyre Wear Numbers and all the corners/places where all the tyre erosion happened, which actually I'm not going to publish (because I'm on my phone and it would take forever to write the info).
This was my second encounter with the car, first happened at Nordschleife and I was almost beheaded.
At Tsukuba after two lap warm up I started the race. In the race I was careful, avoiding kerbs and never pushed the car too much.
In lap eight I pushed a 0:54.652, tyres then FL:6 FR:7 RL:7 RR:8
In the second stint, lap 15 gave me a 0:54.870, tyres then FL:7 FR:8 RL:7 RR:7
It's very hard to say if the car was more slippery at the second stint. Maybe, maybe not. Seven laps' average of the first stint is 55.018 and second stint's 55.212.
The tyre values just before the pit stop were FL:5 FR:7 RL:7 and RR:8.
In end of the last lap tyre values were FL:5 FR:6 and RL:5 RR:6.
Those last lap values show something. Maybe there is something weird going on? Maybe I should test some more?
Anyway, Tsukuba is a very flat track and the Audi was fantastic there. I guess I have to visit Bathurst.

 

[OdeFinn]

My game have some real problem on On-Line pitstops, crashes also on Brands Hatch GP, was doing 20lap race on Oreca, and testing few different driving styles, liftoff on every corner and lap times were betveen 1.28 and 1.29, without liftoff times were between 1.26 and 1.27.
Easily driveable with liftoff throttle, easier than without it. You just have to remember at you are driving MR car and thru corner you have to accelerate/maintain throttle.
(testin on On-Line lobby Race, all aids off, everything "real", tyre wear normal, so no ABS or TC or ASM no enything, Stock Oreca only lowered brake sensitivity and tires were Racing Soft as people want them to be tested)

Wondering what hell is wrong on my game, why can't take any pitstops on On-Line any more. Have to test that pitstop more with some different room settings on "line quality", now it was on high as it suggest, no audio. can't understand why it now crashes on Bathurst and Brands GT.

 

[Sier_Pinski]

After this patch I think the Deltawing is easier to brake while turning into a corner while it is more tail-happy coming out of a corner. I'm assuming that the center of gravity for all MR cars has been shifted slightly forward.

For some cases such as the R8 LMS, the handling is made more realistic.

 

[daus26]

If you're looking for "real life" performance, try comfort softs. I'm not saying the car physics is modeled accurately, but in most cases, the tires provided in the game stock are at least one step too grippy.

Edit: Not sure on this car. Realised which car the GT2 was. Try it and see how the balance is. Then compare lap times with known times.

Edit2: And if you don't want to do a little setup, no use complaining. It won't be heard. It's ludicrous to assume every car should handle as it does in reality with 1,200+ cars.

I don't know if you read my few posts above. My problem is not whether or not the car handles realistically. I have no idea what's realistic or not pertaining to every car in GT. What I'm saying is that my lap times between sports hard and racing hard is too similar. In real life, racing tires should provide noticeably better handling and grip. Heck, I even tried SRF, and it was still a bit of struggle, although capable. Like I said, I've done every set up, tires, everything. I'm not exactly a noob with settings or driving.

If you haven't tried the car yourself, then there's no point in quoting and replying to my posts. I'm tired of seeing replies of people telling me to do this, that, and report, when clearly there's nothing else to report nor is it the point. I just want people's opinion if it's right that the car should be handling as horrible as it is with the Racing Tires. It just seems broken to me. Even if you put on Racing Softs and SRFs, it can easily be a challenge for the majority.

 

[Scaff]

Where does it say so in the article?

A miss read on my part then.

 

[stb155]

TCS and ABS are not permitted in the DTM (despite the article saying so), I double checked with the actual DTM sporting regs.

Any Active systems are forbidden in DTM !

There is no ABS in those cars.
The ECU is one make and sealed for the teams, there is on traction control in it.

This is the official technical rules for 2013:
http://www.adac-motorsport.de/docs/dtm/static/145/2013-Technisches-Reglement.pdf

Any active systems are prohibited, forbidden, not allowed.

In the definition of "active systems" ABS, TC, active dampers, suspension, active differential and so on are explicitly mentioned.

I watch those race in TV in HD all the time, they lock the Wheels all the time under braking.
Also lots of powerslides and no sound of TC cutting the engine.

Pure racing and not software developer war like in other series.

 

[Scaff]

Any Active systems are forbidden in DTM !

I think that's now been established.

There is no ABS in those cars.
The ECU is one make and sealed for the teams, there is on traction control in it.

You've made that point

This is the official technical rules for 2013:
http://www.adac-motorsport.de/docs/dtm/static/145/2013-Technisches-Reglement.pdf

http://www.adac-motorsport.de/docs/dtm/static/145/2013-Technisches-Reglement.pdf
Many thanks

Any active systems are prohibited, forbidden, not allowed.

In the definition of "active systems" ABS, TC, active dampers, suspension, active differential and so on are explicitly mentioned.

You've made that point.

I watch those race in TV in HD all the time, they lock the Wheels all the time under braking.
Also lots of powerslides and no sound of TC cutting the engine.

Pure racing and not software developer war like in other series.

So WEC, ALMS, Le Mans, etc are just software developers wars? Sorry but that I don't agree with at all.

 

[stb155]

Sorry, but you brought up again and again that it is not prohibited (despite the article you first linked said so correctly), and that you even have checked in the official DTM regs.

So i wanted to make it clear once an for all.

So WEC, ALMS, Le Mans, etc are just software developers wars? Sorry but that I don't agree with at all.

Not "just" , but electronics have to much influence IMHO, and this helps nobody.
Small teams have problems to afford the development, races get more boring because drivers make less mistakes and this leads to less overtaking.

Edit:
That's it for me, don't want to damage this thread any more as it finally gets interesting
Edit2:
If you have the rights feel free to correct you post 161 and remove anything afterward about the DTM topic.

 

[Scaff]

Sorry, but you brought up again and again that it is not prohibited (despite the article you first linked said so correctly), and that you even have checked in the official DTM regs.

So i wanted to make it clear once an for all.

I think you may want to re-read my posts. I made the mistake once, every post in this thread from that point on corrected it.

Not "just" , but electronics have to much influence IMHO, and this helps nobody.
Small teams have problems to afford the development, races get more boring because drivers make less mistakes and this leads to less overtaking.

I think you will find that Endurance racing has plenty of driver mistakes and more than a small degree of overtaking.

A lack of driver aids doesn't automatically mean more driver mistakes and more overtaking, a point F1 proves rather well (as TCS and ABS are both banned).

Edit:
That's it for me, don't want to damage this thread any more as it finally gets interesting
Edit2:
If you have the rights feel free to correct you post 161 and remove anything afterward about the DTM topic.

I don't think that's really needed given that the only person strugeling with the single mistake and (now repeated) correction(s) is yourself.

 

[MaDHaX]

Not "just" , but electronics have to much influence IMHO, and this helps nobody.

Not true, as these teams develope new technology we all benefit from it in the future products of that company. It's all geared to making better faster cars, in that sense the electronics is abit like when downforce was first introduced to F1. New tech that will make you go faster.

 

[stb155]

I think you may want to re-read my posts. I made the mistake once, every post in this thread from that point on corrected it.

Sorry, seems i misread your post #181 (got permitted/prohibited mixd up)

But your "despite the the article said so" made it not easy, this was the 2nd time you got that wrong .
First saying it is allowed despite article saying it is not allowed, and then saying it is not permitted "despite article said so", which it does not as you later acknowledged.
Also english not being 1st language and posting on iPad did not help.

Still my fault, sorry.

Not going to comment on electronics in racing good or bad further in this thread.

 

[OdeFinn]

If you haven't tried the car yourself, then there's no point in quoting and replying to my posts. I'm tired of seeing replies of people telling me to do this, that, and report, when clearly there's nothing else to report nor is it the point. I just want people's opinion if it's right that the car should be handling as horrible as it is with the Racing Tires. It just seems broken to me. Even if you put on Racing Softs and SRFs, it can easily be a challenge for the majority.

Trust me and reduce your braking, by setting brake bias(sensitivity) 0/0 or 1/1 and do not downshift when braking hard, loose brakes during downshift.
There is huge difference on lap times between SS and RH tires, if you are locking brakes or not familiar with car then it feels first similar, after knowing car well you'll see that many seconds difference between those tires.

 

[Spurgy 777]

@OdeFinn you managed to watch my replay yet?

 

[OdeFinn]

@Spurgy 777, not yet, but after this message checking it up.
Tested Team Oreca on Tzukuba, constant 56.nnn laps, best somewhere 55.nnn 20lap race, after 10 laps going into pit and having 10/10 on front 9/10 on rear, no aids no abs etc. tyre wear normal Racing Softs, real settings On-Line race, and guess what, my game crashes again on pitstop, that 🤬:ng pulldown menu bug is now coming to me on all On-Line races.

 

[OdeFinn]

@Spurgy 777, Checked your replay, you should do a new test, there is easily seen pulling to left after that wall hit on 7th lap, your cars body wasn't straight after that hit and car starts understeer and left front tire is pulling to left on every kerb hit after that wall hit, not doing it before it.

 

[MaDHaX]

@Spurgy 777, not yet, but after this message checking it up.
Tested Team Oreca on Tzukuba, constant 56.nnn laps, best somewhere 55.nnn 20lap race, after 10 laps going into pit and having 10/10 on front 9/10 on rear, no aids no abs etc. tyre wear normal Racing Softs, real settings On-Line race, and guess what, my game crashes again on pitstop, that 🤬:ng pulldown menu bug is now coming to me on all On-Line races.

Thats very odd that your game is crashing out everytime you go into the pits. I wonder what the problem could be?

Do you have a blu-ray disc or digital install?

It might be worth backing your game save and then delete GT6 completely from your PS3 and then reinstall, just make sure you back up your game save, so you dont lose what you have.

 

[OdeFinn]

@MaDHaX, on plans to do that, running on Bray-disc on SSD boosted Fatty. That pulldown problem was earlier only on Bathurst, now it seems to be on all On-Line pitstops.

 

[Spurgy 777]

@Spurgy 777, Checked your replay, you should do a new test, there is easily seen pulling to left after that wall hit on 7th lap, your cars body wasn't straight after that hit and car starts understeer and left front tire is pulling to left on every kerb hit after that wall hit, not doing it before it.

The car wasn't driving any differently after that hit and damage was off. Even if it was driving worse after the hit, my fastest lap before the hit was still 6 tenths off my very first lap out of the pits. I can do another test but the results won't be any different.

 

[OdeFinn]

The car wasn't driving any differently after that hit and damage was off. Even if it was driving worse after the hit, my fastest lap before the hit was still 6 tenths off my very first lap out of the pits. I can do another test but the results won't be any different.

Game doesn't care is damage on or off, body will bend during race if hitting it. Not saying at driving was worse after hit, might be easier to drive R8 with slight understeer, it cuts off sharp steering and allows slightly more "errors" on cornering when understeering a bit. But cost will be more tyre wear.
I'll bet at results will be different

 

[Spurgy 777]

Game doesn't care is damage on or off, body will bend during race if hitting it. Not saying at driving was worse after hit, might be easier to drive R8 with slight understeer, it cuts off sharp steering and allows slightly more "errors" on cornering when understeering a bit. But cost will be more tyre wear.
I'll bet at results will be different

You do realise I have already tested pitting several times, most of the time without crashing before hand? It's not like I just did this one test and said, well the game must be broken then... But in the hope that you might see the problem I will run another test. In fact, you can join my lobby if you're not up to much, just send me a FR.

 

[OdeFinn]

@Spurgy 777, Re-Install almost done on GT6, will send after "updated" car images, freaking slow process.
And understand at you have tested it more than once, you start pushing your tires instantly when coming out from pit, and all the time you are driving on "yellow" tires on left side, BBQ'ng your tires constantly.

 

[Spurgy 777]

@Spurgy 777, Re-Install almost done on GT6, will send after "updated" car images, freaking slow process.
And understand at you have tested it more than once, you start pushing your tires instantly when coming out from pit, and all the time you are driving on "yellow" tires on left side, BBQ'ng your tires constantly.

That's why I said the test wasn't long enough to tell if my tyre wear got any worse. I was mostly concerned about the handling before and after, which is what I was trying to show with the replay.

 

[MaDHaX]

What I found out with this pit bug was that the lift oversteer was worse before the pit, but recent test is now different. I did a small test again today.
After the small update the day before yesterday seems to have changed something with the tyres. But there is still a difference. I can now run almost same times before and after pit but on first set of tyres the rear loses grip faster when I lift throttle in the corner than the second set. I've kind of gotten used to it now and for sure I think something has changed here more since the small update after 1.03 update. Can we find out what the small update did?

PS - Spurgy 777 and OdeFinn, I have the whole day tomorrow for myself so if at some point you want to test in a online private lobby i'm all ears.

 

[teth75]

TCS and ABS are not permitted in the DTM (despite the article saying so), I double checked with the actual DTM sporting regs.

Sorry but the article stated that tcs and abs are not allowed. Maybe you just read it wrong?

 

[Scaff]

Sorry but the article stated that tcs and abs are not allowed. Maybe you just read it wrong?

Posted at 7.35am this morning.

A miss read on my part then.

Might be an idea to finished reading the thread before hitting the reply button in future.

 

[OdeFinn]

This thread needs new name.
I installed GT6 again from scratch to get pitstops working on On-Line, and yes there is definitely a BIG Problem on game physics on before and after pitstop. Every car, every tire compound, on all cars are affected with it.
Problem of pitstops are on FF/FR/MR/RR/4WD so ALL cars.

About MR cars like Oreca or Ultra etc. problem is easier to notice.
So no particular problem considering MR cars, just a huge bug on game considering those pitstops.
After pitstop game changes tire grip higher and you'll notice it as your car drivetrain and setup is made, some feels understeer some oversteer, depends your setup and drivetrain.

 

[teth75]

@Scaff If i made a mistake like that though I would at least accept it quickly and apologise for causing any confusion.