Update 1.03 - What exactly happened to the MR cars?

OdeFinn
First I don't use racing softs, too ultra grip for all cars, but when getting back to home can test that for you.
Answering already what I have noticed by earlier playing; after pit stop you have to drive one or one and half lap(depends track jadajada) easily to warm your tires slowly to keep them on stable temperature or you spoil grip because of too much skidding/sliding.
After warm-up of tires those work exactly same as 1st stint tires.
On Audi ultra driving is easier if tires are sliding a bit and that might be reason why you got better times with 2nd stint burnt tires.
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This is half true.
It seems to helps to treat them well but there still is a difference.

I just did a 30 lap online race with stop in 15th lap.
I was very careful in first two laps after stop and then started to go faster.
Still more rear tire wear after stop and slower laptimes.
Before stop i had ~2/3 rear tires, at finish just over 50.
And as i said before car is more edgy before stop and i slide more often , after stop it is mostly understeer so i should use less rear and more front tire.

Maybe there is only a small difference in wear but this gets amplified in races with increased wear like the "S" ones ?
(2sec. Tires spin there is like 20sec. Spin online with normal wear ?)

Laptimes: (setup i posted before, RS, no aids, DS3)
Before stop:
Best 1:22,7
Usually between mid 23 to 24

After stop:
Best: 1:23,989 and that was a "freak lap" only did one more 1:24,9 rest all low 25 to 26.
(Also the fastest lap was in 29. where the car started to loose understeer again because of worn rear tires)

2 spins (out of corner) and a few big moments in first 15 laps (i got tired for a few lap, not good with this car)
1 offroad adventure because of locked rear brake, 1 big off in the gravel trap while pushing hard after the stop.
 
@MaDHaX, Tested LMS Ultra a bit, thought to take 16lap on Bathurst, pitted after 8th, and game crashes.. restart and toke this testing as a warm-up for Bathurst and Ultra, I did 12laps on Real grip, Normal tyre wear, no any aids, just stock Ultra, only thing was that i have changed brakes lower, had to BUY Racing Softs for you, nothing else.
Lap times goes around 2.11.xxx as fastest was 11th lap on time 2.09,153.
Driving was GREAT, car is excellent, no problems at all, few mistakes only because my own concentration fails.
If you are bored and want to see how easy that car is on stock, without aids, driven with G27 on those RACING SOFT tires then feel free and download my replay from that On-Line testing Race.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/51496493/GTPlanet/BCJS37016-RPLY002.zip

PS. Maybe many of you who really think this car is broken or hard should take a look that replay, maybe if there is something what helps you out or something, any how car isn't broke, or even bad to drive, it has big character, but easily handled.
 
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stb155, If you check my 103 post you will see there are 3 cars there which I have tested, and each one was faster after pit and also felt different. If people are not feeling the change then perhaps they tuned the car or maybe they are just not able to tell the difference.

I know there is a difference but for someone to tell me I need to learn how to drive because they cant feel it or even worse, they didnt even test it and then come on here to do what exactly? trying to humiliate that person?

There is a pit bug that is affecting the handling of the car and as a result I can push the car harder. stb155 yes the tyres are running out quicker on the back wheels but i'm running faster on them right away.

One more question. Are you OdeFinn and stb155 testing on wheel or pad?

@OdeFinn in your opinion it is not broke, in mine, it is! and for other people it is also. If the car has two different handling characteristics from changing tyres in the pit without doing anything to the tuning then that indicates a broken car.

Seems weird that you dont feel that, and it also feels weird that stb cant go faster after pit. To me in the cars that have weight at the back I can drive them faster after pit, and that happens everytime. I'm starting to wonder if this bug is different with other people or most likely could have something to do with each individuals driving style.
 
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@MaDHaX, Driving using Logtech G27, as said on earlier post. Go and check that replay and say does that car look broken?
(I'm not insulting, or anything, just asking if you please go and check that replay, and say what it looks like to you)
And yes it should look broken after 5th and 10th laps small accidents when brain farting :)
 
I just tried to put that replay on my PS3 but the console was not able to see it on the memory card. How do you put replays onto the PS3?

I'm gonna have to look into this tomorrow.
 
Extract that .zip file to /PS3/SAVEGAME folder, it creates one folder there and replays in it.(case sensitive folder names, had to be capitalised all)
 
MaDHaX
stb155, If you check my 103 post you will see there are 3 cars there which I have tested, and each one was faster after pit and also felt different. If people are not feeling the change then perhaps they tuned the car or maybe they are just not able to tell the difference.

I know there is a difference but for someone to tell me I need to learn how to drive because they cant feel it or even worse, they didnt even test it and then come on here to do what exactly? trying to humiliate that person?

There is a pit bug that is affecting the handling of the car and as a result I can push the car harder. stb155 yes the tyres are running out quicker on the back wheels but i'm running faster on them right away.

One more question. Are you OdeFinn and stb155 testing on wheel or pad?

@OdeFinn in your opinion it is not broke, in mine, it is! and for over people it is also. If the car has two different handling characteristics from changing tyres in the pit without doing anything to the tuning then that indicates a broken car.

Seems weird that you dont feel that, and it also feels weird that stb cant go faster after pit. To me in the cars that have weight at the back I can drive them faster after pit, and that happens everytime. I'm starting to wonder if this bug is different with other people.
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I drives with DS3 for the moment (last 2weeks, before a week with wheel, before that DS3)

I remember your 103 post, i did not test it with those cars because they are street cars.
And testing street cars with race soft does not to make lot of sense me, their suspension is not set up for them and you get strange results.

That's why i tested with the R8.
I will test some other race cars to for the fun, no road cars (maybe the FXX but for that i probably need the wheel)

Also not sure what tires, i don't get why so many people use RS all the time, they are not that much faster but wear very fast (at least in the S races) and make driving more difficult (at least with DS3 and the 3 cars i tested them so far).
 
stb155
their suspension is not set up for them and you get strange results.
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This is exactly why you should try it with those cars, just try them for the feel but now that I know your on pad. Now I know why you dont feel the difference. I drive the car the same after pits on the wheel and I can deffinetly feel the difference.

I know what you mean about the RS tyres and I agree that RS should be for racing cars but this is for experimental purposes only. When I have more time later today I might try some other race cars.

@OdeFinn, ok I will try that now.
 
Morphisor
See my previous post above. In addition, the 'official' specs for the MP4-12C GT3 also list traction control:

http://gt3europe.com/cars.php?market=false&key=48

--

Anyone driving these cars without TCS and ABS is of course free to do so, HOWEVER they cannot make claims about the cars' handling based on that experience, since the real cars make extensive use of these aids! Most likely their handling is set up around this very fact!
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Scaff
Chris Harris discusses its use in this video:
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Hey guys thanks a lot :cheers:. I'll be using these settings in my own online GT/3 races from now on. For whatever reason I always believed it was non-permissible to use anything but ABS in any FIA-GT/ALMS/ILMS type racing. Is it allowed in DTM too? :gtplanet:
 
Maddens Raiders
Hey guys thanks a lot :cheers:. I'll be using these settings in my own online GT/3 races from now on. For whatever reason I always believed it was non-permissible to use anything but ABS in any FIA-GT/ALMS/ILMS type racing. Is it allowed in DTM too? :gtplanet:
Click to expand...

No, that's just in Gran Turismo :)



How about GT300/GT500? I find those cars very balanced without TCS (in GT6 that is :) )
edit: sorry, google is my friend. Apparently no ABS and TCS in GT500 (not sure about GT300 yet)
 
OdeFinn I've just finished watching your replay, and I got to compliment on you proving your driving talent. You certainly did manage to tame it all the way without any major problems. I can see the difference in our driving is that you use about 10% throttle when you brake into corners which would elimate the lift oversteer what people are talking about including me. It's actually the lift oversteer that is not very realistic, HOWEVER!

Judging by your replay you didnt get the full meaning of that test, you see it's not just the lift oversteer why this thread exist's. That's why I said to go into pits during race and change the tyre to the same RS compound, in other words replace your tyres for a fresh set and then finish the race. If you do that i'm sure you will notice the car is now different. I think you should be able to tell the difference as you are on a wheel. Oh and fill the fuel tank full so you have the same scenario as lap 1.

If you try this again at some point, try pitting in at the end of lap 6 and finish on second set. I can easily push the car at least 5-10% more on the second set of tyres. Let me know what you think if you try it again.
 
stb155
WRONG !

NO ABS and TC in DTM allowed, only thing they have is the DRS system like in F1.

It is also said in the link you posted that it is prohibited.
Click to expand...

My apologies, the source was incorrect in that regard then.

However a word of advice, the caps lock WRONG was not needed.
 
@MaDHaX, I'm planning to test that pitting later, on different track, seems like Bathurst crashes game on every On-Line pitstop.
that "10%" is just revmatching on down shifts, if you check it more you'll find few other things also, throttle is coming down depending on speed during braking, brake pedal is loosened on every downshift to avoid tire locking on rear.
After braking I have already "right" amount of throttle for next incoming corner, and maintained traction thru whole braking.
Pedals and wheel are doing constant work to maintain stability, but hey come to Finland and try our ice covered roads and you know how much you have play on wheel and pedals to maintain stable "high" speed :)
 
MR cars behaviour and tyre wear are two separate issues. Why are you all treating them as if they were the same thing?

PS.: I don't think that MR cars are broken to begin with. And I'm a very mundane and slow driver.
 
OdeFinn
@MaDHaX, I'm planning to test that pitting later, on different track, seems like Bathurst crashes game on every On-Line pitstop.
that "10%" is just revmatching on down shifts, if you check it more you'll find few other things also, throttle is coming down depending on speed during braking, brake pedal is loosened on every downshift to avoid tire locking on rear.
After braking I have already "right" amount of throttle for next incoming corner, and maintained traction thru whole braking.
Pedals and wheel are doing constant work to maintain stability, but hey come to Finland and try our ice covered roads and you know how much you have play on wheel and pedals to maintain stable "high" speed :)
Click to expand...

Test the Oreca this time and then you might stop with these "learn how to drive" posts...
 
OdeFinn
PS. Maybe many of you who really think this car is broken or hard should take a look that replay, maybe if there is something what helps you out or something, any how car isn't broke, or even bad to drive, it has big character, but easily handled.
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I saw how easy the car is when you brake for the last chicane ;)
You adjust to it very nicely and drive it very smooth. 👍

I can't match that driving with DS3, not even with changed setup.
I'll give it a try when i get the wheel out next time.


Edit: sorry, missed your last post so never mind
After warm-up of tires those work exactly same as 1st stint tires.
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I guess this i still your opinion, but i read you did not test it as your PS crashed ?

I really would like to know too if you can feel no difference in handling and tire wear after pit stop.

You drive very smooth and tires basically never change color the slightest bit.
I work them a bit more (but only a bit not orange or red), but i do that the entire race and i gave them two slow laps after stop. So there should not be a difference in handling, but there is.
I'll try to drive as smooth as you when the wheel is out next time, maybe the pit stop bug disappears then.



BTW:
I was so stupid to mess with all 3 setups without writing down the original before, maybe someone can provide the stock suspension/LSD/DF setup for the ultra Phoenix. Thx

A button for setting it back to default would be really nice PD, strange that no one thought of that before and it was in none of the previous GT's...
 
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Spurgy 777
Test the Oreca this time and then you might stop with these "learn how to drive" posts...
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I did earlier today and I didnt notice the pit bug anymore, very strange. But there was a small update before I started, i'm just wondering what that could of been.

When I tried it yesterday after updating to 1.03 all cars that I tested had the pit bug, but today I didnt notice the pit bug and the car was the same before and after pit. Maybe the guys that tested this before can test it now.

Didnt have much time but my times before and after pit was similar and the car felt the same. I'm gonna give this another go tomorrow.
 
@Spurgy 777, toke a quick test on that oreca, easy as ultra, better grip on high speeds, bit lower grip on speeds under 120kmh when comparing to ultra.
Times from my test, 2laps on Racing Hard warm-up plus one "quick", quick was 2.12.9xx, first run of car.
Racing Softs 3laps, 1 warm-up 2 "quicks", second quick was 2.10.427.

No problems on that car either, works as Ultra, faster on "Parks" and need bit more on slower turns.
Maybe easier overall than Ultra.
 
stb155
BTW:
I was so stupid to mess with all 3 setups without writing down the original before, maybe someone can provide the stock suspension/LSD/DF setup for the ultra Phoenix. Thx

A button for setting it back to default would be really nice PD, strange that no one thought of that before and it was in none of the previous GT's...
Click to expand...

suspension
50/55 ride height
14.72/20.86 spring rate
4/4 compression
4/4 extension
3/3 roll bars
3.0/1.0 camber
-0.30/0.40 toe
transmission

top speed 193
4.473
3.014
2.201
1.686
1.354
1.140
3.462 final

LSD
10/40/20

DOWNFORCE
350/730
 
Somebody knows what updated on yesterday evening's 1.03.x update?
The first (the one somebody told about fix of the endurance time races) came out on 15 evening, but in 16 evening (yesterday) another one came out.
 
Spurgy 777
Here is my replay file from the 20 lap test earlier, I unfortunately have no easy way of recording myself driving which is probably the most important part, as I was working a lot harder in the first stint, and going quite a bit slower.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/kswmw1qt8nf5f76/R8 Oreca replay.zip

Let me know if it doesn't work, I'm not the best with computers :)
Click to expand...
Please, could you describe how the test session was. I'm not able to view your recording.
I'm about to contribute soon.
By the way, nice to see you here Ode :)
 

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