Update 1.03 - What exactly happened to the MR cars?

BWX
the rear tires howl all the time (second set)
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Yep I noticed that too, constant tyre screeching even on the straight. But the car weirdly enough was faster and more stable on the second set.

Maybe the tyre wear is something to do with the sound. Like telling the PS3, the rear tyres are screeching so there should be tyre wear.
 
On a second thought, I don't know how true it is that the handling of MR cars has been changed.

TokoTurismo
Not sure what happened to the MR cars. The Ferrari FXX still slides like it did in 1.02, and other MR cars aren't any different either.
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I just noticed this as well. On an earlier post today I said that I noticed my GT40 handling incredibly neutral and almost like a FR car after 1.03, but it was probably due to a few changes in the settings that I made before testing it.

However, when driving my Cizeta later this afternoon, it felt exactly like it did in v1.02.

NOTE: Not saying the Cizeta drives bad. It can be a very naughty car, yes, but I like it. So please don't change it PD!
 
HuskyGT
I just noticed this as well. On an earlier post today I said that I noticed my GT40 handling incredibly neutral and almost like a FR car after 1.03, but it was probably due to a few changes in the settings that I made before testing it.

However, when driving my Cizeta later this afternoon, it felt exactly like it did in v1.02.

NOTE: Not saying the Cizeta drives bad. It can be a very naughty car, yes, but I like it. So please don't change it PD!
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Hmmm. It could be because I have suspension hards on my FXX, so maybe I can try again without it? Even so, it still slide. :P Also. I adore the Cizeta's handling, don't change it indeed. 👍
 
MaDHaX
before the pit the car feels very nervous and twitchy, also very difficult to understand how the car will react with different types of corners. After the pit the car is totally different and totally driveable, I beat my best by 3 seconds on brands hatch grand prix circuit and I wasnt even hot lapping. I was able to brake into corners later, take a faster smoother, more predictable line and power out of a corner earlier. And that was also the case with the Ferrari Enzo FXX along with the Elise '11. It is much more noticeable on the more powerful cars and with the Racing Soft compound. All three of these cars felt very different after pit, and in all three I was also much faster on second set of tyres with full fuel.

There deffinetely is a difference and i'm sure by now there shouldnt be a debate about it. For people that are just saying "oh, your just a n00b. Go and learn how to drive properly", my message to these kinds of attitude is, go and test it for yourself and if you cannot see/feel the difference then perhaps that should tell you the difference in driving skill and or technique. For people that can tell the difference and have done the testing all agree that there is a problem and should be fixed. There isnt a debate anymore, especially to the people that post without testing it themselves.

PD should be made aware of this and i'm sure they will fix it soon.
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I never tested it on race cars with soft tires, maybe its different with them.
(For me the stock BTR is is more difficult to drive with soft sports than with hard sports)

3 sec. seems a lot tough...
For me that is the difference between new and ~50% worn tires, the difference between fore/after 1st stop is less.
(But as i said before that depends a lot on car and setup and driving style)
For me so far the R8 LMS is a car that is less effected by the pit stop bug than others.

Was it the Brands Hatch race in "S" ? What times you did ?
I try again later with soft tires.

Have you tested it with other race cars that handle more normal ?
Don't know the Elise but the FXX and R8 LMS both seem to be a bit of a special case.
I don't say broken but the R8 is clearly very different to all the other GT class race cars, and the FXX is also a bit strange, it's no race car but also no street car (IRL its a 100% race car with race parts, race tires and so on), so with what tires and setup do you test in in GT6 and with what you compare it ?
So i would say they are both not the best car to search for bugs.
(You want something predictable for that to be able to do consistent lap times)
 
I drove/tested the Cizeta and the Ferrari F40 last night (first chance I've had to play since the update). I found that there was no problem with either of them with snap oversteer and spinning. The F40 even seemed kinda easy to handle, considering all the flak its handling's been getting from some on this esteemed forum.

I was driving those cars stock, SH tyres, abs=0

The only problem I had was that with the Cizeta it seems like you have to start braking several weeks before the corner. I can get an appointment with my dermatologist more quickly than it takes the Cizeta to slow down for corners. Quite like that though - it's a lot of fun. Really nerve-racking!

I can't really give any before-and-after the update impressions though. I had only driven the Cizeta once before, and had never driven the F40.

So perhaps the improved-MR-handling speculation will contiunue. This is a mystery that will go down in history along with Atlantis. :boggled:
 
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HuskyGT
On a second thought, I don't know how true it is that the handling of MR cars has been changed.



I just noticed this as well. On an earlier post today I said that I noticed my GT40 handling incredibly neutral and almost like a FR car after 1.03, but it was probably due to a few changes in the settings that I made before testing it.

However, when driving my Cizeta later this afternoon, it felt exactly like it did in v1.02.

NOTE: Not saying the Cizeta drives bad. It can be a very naughty car, yes, but I like it. So please don't change it PD!
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i wasn't one to complain about MR cars, but, having tried the cizeta and both diablos, i had much less trouble with off-throttle oversteer in medium speed sections such as the first sector of apricot hill. rather than crawling through, i can now take corners at speed and use the oversteer to my advantage if i've taken too much speed into the corner. definitely feels different to me.
 
I noticed that the SW20 MR2 drives like the real car. The handling is more precise and the sliding is controllable just like the real car. I know my MR2 has tricky handling on the limit but pre 1.03 was ridiculous.
 
I'd driven my lightly modified (some more power, nothing else) Stratos quite a bit before the update, CS tyres all round, all aids off, no ABS, with a G25.

Was a bit concerned upon reading the 'MR cars have been fixed' news, so I gave it a go last night on Autumn Ring Mini, and have to say it feels largely the same.

I hadn't driven it for a good few days, so spent the first lap or two getting used to it again (read: spinning) but soon settled back into the driving style, and got that wonderful right on the edge of slip feeling I always got from the Stratos, where it feels like you're just flying through corners with hardly any input when you're finally balanced on that knife edge.

It's a fantastic car to drive, and always funny to hand the seat to a friend and say 'try and drive that then'.
 
SillyBillyP
I drove/tested the Cizeta and the Ferrari F40 last night (first chance I've had to play since the update). I found that there was no problem with either of them with snap oversteer and spinning. The F40 even seemed kinda easy to handle, considering all the flak its handling's been getting from some on this esteemed forum.

I was driving those cars stock, SH tyres, abs=0

The only problem I had was that with the Cizeta it seems like you have to start braking several weeks before the corner. I can get an appointment with my dermatologist more quickly than it takes the Cizeta to slow down for corners. Quite like that though - it's a lot of fun. Really nerve-racking!

I can't really give any before-and-after the update impressions though. I had only driven the Cizeta once before, and had never driven the F40.

So perhaps the improved-MR-handling speculation will contiunue. This is a mystery that will go down in history along with Atlantis. :boggled:
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I think i'll try these 2 cars today. SillyBillyP, try both cars with Racing Soft tyres. Thats when you will notice the snap oversteer more than anything else. Then go to pit and change for same compound with the added fuel so its exactly the same as before. Do that and let us know your thoughts.

@stb155 - I was getting 1:30.xxx on Brands Hatch Grand Prix circuit before the pit and 1:27.xxx after. Yes I tested with the other GT3 cars also, The FR GT3 cars feel much better on first set of tyres and then bad on second, complete opposite of the R8.
 
BWX
"you can just hang the ass out like a super hero, it's very subtle (or supple).., the car *edit- handles* just beautifully"

"trail braking, that's the impressive thing, you can trail brake the thing right into the apex, in a way that you just wouldn't expect in a mid-engined racing car"

"real, real pleasant car to drive, you know?"

"not intimidating"

"Easiest one to drive compared to Porsche and McLaren"

"very pleasant indeed"

easy, easy, easy, car to drive... says Mr. Harris.

And this all in the RAIN!!!

What, no 180 on touching of brakes at 150mph? Oh.. i thought that was because I didn't know how to drive MR cars.. Spin when looking at it funny on trail braking? No that's me not knowing how to drive.. Yeah right!
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In GT6, I always trail brake, often deep into the apex with the LMS Ultra Team Phoenix, drove more than 400kms already racing it in arcade races and hot lapping at Bathurst, and no, I don't use any aids.
That race car has a good safe setup for the rain, I am sure the team who owned it will want it to be safe ( they can adjust brake pressure and bias, suspension, even ECU settings to suit rain condition ) The same can be said in GT6, use Active steering, TC and ABS 1, the car will be much easier to drive, even more so with good brake, lsd and suspension tune.

The R8 LMS Team Phoenix on RH tire and stock power no oil change 528HP is capable of 1:25s easily at Brand Hatch GP offline.
 
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The more I test the more cars I find have been affected by this pit bug. I just did a run with the Cizeta V16T and the Ferrari F40 and surely enough both cars feel more stable after the pit stop.

I tested this in a private online lobby on Brands Hatch Grand Prix circuit with all aids off except ABS which is on 1. Both cars were completely stock with the V16T having 544 PP and the F40 had 536 PP both on Racing Soft's.

I did another test since I have a tuned F40 at 550 PP with weight ballast towards the front. It has 45/55 where as the stock one has 40/60, and the V16T has 41/59.

V16T before pit 1:33.790, after pit 1:31.252 with noticeable change in handling.
F40 before pit 1:30.646, after pit 1:29.245 again with noticeable handling.
Tuned F40 before pit 1:28.310, after pit 1:27.254 with a more stable feel again after the pit stop.

*EDIT*

Just wanted to add another car I just tested which is the RUF BTR.

Tuned at 500PP 1:33.060 and 1:31.204 after pit
Stock at 502PP 1:35.252 and 1:33.083 again both times car felt more stable on second tyres.

The tuned car has ballast towards the front and has upgraded everything and dont feel the backend as much as the stock. This pit bug is much more obvious with the stock BTR on RS tyres.

Also this bug may affect cars handling with other tyres also, it's just obvious with the RS because the tyre compound is more unforgiving.
 
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z06fun
I think some of you are confusing bad handling with a car that is balanced for oversteer. I hate to bring real life physics into the discussion but an MR car that is setup with a lot of front grip will spin easily because of the low polar moment of inertia it has. This is even more so true if it has a short wheel base like many MR cars tend to have. If you want to make a car like the stratos easier to drive simply run a less grippy tire in front. The stratos particularly has a lot of front grip in GT 6 so you might need the front tires downgraded by 2 levels to balance it, but that will change the balance to slight understeer and then you can see it actually has decent handling.

Anyone remember how everyone always complained about all the cars in GT5 having lots of understeer? Now we have both types of cars:)
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I suspect PD might have simply increased the amount of front grip universally in GT6 vs GT5 without changing any of the other criteria.

Makes FR cars feel much better as there's a lot less understeer, but makes MR cars much harder to drive as the old balance is now exaggerated by the extra front end grip.

But there's something wrong if you need to put less grippy tyres on one axle to make a car drivable
 
Stotty
I suspect PD might have simply increased the amount of front grip universally in GT6 vs GT5 without changing any of the other criteria.

Makes FR cars feel much better as there's a lot less understeer, but makes MR cars much harder to drive as the old balance is now exaggerated by the extra front end grip.

But there's something wrong if you need to put less grippy tyres on one axle to make a car drivable
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That makes sense but then how come there is a difference after pit?

Somebody mentioned that there is a spike lag when a car pits, I get that all the time when someone joins the track from the lobby in GT5 and 6 and also that is the same with PC sim's. The reason is that the game has to load the car to the track, however that should not occur when a car is in the pit. If infact this is what is going on then that suggest's to me that the game has loaded another setup for the car, hence the lag spike.
 
MaDHaX
That makes sense but then how come there is a difference after pit?
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I've no idea!

Could be the pit bug is an isolated issue similar to the wheel width bug... or could be it's linked to something else in the code.
 
I'm not sure if the handling on MR cars are that much different, but I did manage to roll my R8 LMS Ultra at GVS. :dopey:
 
Hopefully PD stops listening stupid complains about cars what are "broken", Ultra as Stratos and many other MR car are just fine, people have to learn how to drive them.
Stock models can be "helped" like lowering brakes to 1/1 or 2/2 (on race brakes) and also some decrease to standard brakes also can be done to help handling if your body part is acting too heavy on brakes.
Those cars are twitchy if revs are high or too low during braking, but there is also good operating rev area where car is handling perfectly, you just have to learn what revs you can use, when you have to maintain gas/rev by pedal and when not, how sudden pedal pushes you can or cannot do with them.
Same goes on wheel, MR cars are asking really low steering inputs from driver, those are guided thru corners mostly by just steering with GAS PEDAL. And if you hustle on steering you have to remember what weight you have just waved on movement and try to get is on "hand" again gently or tail will flow out of your control because its weight transfer what you have started by your too sudden or heavy steering moves.

First you can also try to learn one of most basics of MR cars, grow your balls to push gas down when rear starts to slip/skid, don't do any opposite steering just pressing gas down, then when you have find car reactions for that recover start do that bit later and giving extremely small opposite steering with that gas pedal pushing.
You'll find MR cars soul by doing this.
(take ABS and other aids off when practicing driving)
 
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MRs handle the same as they did before the update.. fine.

the pit stop bug is something that i haven't really noticed, was in a lobby last night , 1 make race , no tuning, no aids, 1 compulsery pit stop..
Was driving one of the gt500 provided by online garage, race soft tyres (lame) averaging 15 laps a race ..
Stuck with the room for 4 hours ( one of those rare rooms, where the host kicks idiots) and I just didn't notice this tyre bug, maybe I was too busy racing to realise, raced on loads of tracks too, but not once did I think I was losing time or grip due to tyres..

I'm not saying this bug doesn't happen, but i sure don't notice, maybe nascar on dayatona is a better place for me to test it.

On the other hand, I am saying there was and still is nothing wrong with MR cars, no egg on my face!
 
Here is how the car drove for me at Fuji on Jan 10th with ABS 1, ASM ON. If I've committed a sin, by all means, let me know. I was under the impression some of these race cars are driven with ABS(the car driven by Chris Harris of DRIVE had TCS 7 also). NOTE: Sorry for the poor application of brakes on lap 1 and 2, Turn 1. @jonjig This was posted in hopes of showing the handling of the Audi R8 LMS Ultra Team Phoenix '12. (there was speculation it handled horribly prior to update 1.03). @Vegard Thank you for your assessment. I figured the poor handling was because I was only an average driver. I initially turned ASM on because the back end seems to step out more in this car than others. Of course, I have not fine-tuned the car (much) because I'm still learning the effects of each adjustment in GT6.
 
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Boone
Here is how the car drove for me at Fuji on Jan 10th with ABS 1, ASM ON. If I've committed a sin, by all means, let me know. I was under the impression some of these race cars are driven with ABS(the car driven by Chris Harris of DRIVE had TCS 7 also). NOTE: Sorry for the poor application of brakes on lap 1 and 2, Turn 1.
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You've committed no sin, your free to use whatever aids you want.. don't know what your video's showing/about though?
 
Boone
ASM ON
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It looked to me like it was quite busy when the HUD finally came on.
I saw it flickering at the top of 4th gear through the kink on the way down to the Coca Cola corner.
130 mph ASM application in a race car is not what I'd call a demonstration of "good handling".
 
Boone
Here is how the car drove for me at Fuji on Jan 10th with ABS 1, ASM ON. If I've committed a sin, by all means, let me know. I was under the impression some of these race cars are driven with ABS(the car driven by Chris Harris of DRIVE had TCS 7 also). NOTE: Sorry for the poor application of brakes on lap 1 and 2, Turn 1. @jonjig This was posted in hopes of showing the handling of the Audi R8 LMS Ultra Team Phoenix '12. (there was speculation it handled horribly prior to update 1.03).
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I'm no alien driver and I'm not a "AIDs suck and you can't drive worth a crap if you use any of them" preacher, so this isn't me putting you down because of using them, but I can tell, sometimes, when a car would lose control, had an AID not kicked in to save it. There were instances in that vid where AMS saved you.
You CAN'T use that video in this argument about the R8 handling poorly or well, because I don't think it's a fair argument. Just like the Harris video can't be used either since he also has AIDs on, and almost maxed out at that.

I took the GT40 on the nurburgring for mission S5 and could not go 10 corners without losing my sh....grip. ASM went on and I finished ~4 seconds shy of gold on the very first try. THAT'S HOW STRONG ASM is in this game.
 
I can now safely say that some have changed, some others are exactly the same. Just bought the Huayra and it feels completely different from what it was in 1.02. Prior 1.03 you couldn't lift of the gas, brake or press on the gas pedal without spinning out. Right now the car feels amazingly neutral and I dare to say lighter than before. It still hits you hard when you give it more gas than necessary, but it's so relaxing to drive now. I really like it and I'm glad PD changed its handling.

HOWEVER, I would love this car if it weren't for the awful sound that PD used in it. Just sold it until it has a proper V12 sound.
 

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