Update 2.10 - Major PP changes

[Voodoovaj]

It isn't just the questionable cares that have been affected. The 3400S, Nismo Z-Ztune, the 380 Super Leggera are ones that have benefited greatly by this change. Those were all good cars in the old system. They have now become hugely advantageous cars.

Try the SVT mustang at 500pp. Acceptable handling and over 600 horsepower equals 550pp laptimes in 500pp rooms.

Online racing is going to be very frustrating until a fix comes (hopefully)

 

[playnthru]

They've changed my PP again? Why? I'll admit it wasn't perfect to start with but I still mostly liked my PP as it was.
Now looking at my PP I'm confused, can't make heads or tails of it right now.

Sorry about your PP?

So will this mean another update soon? You know to fix everyones PP?

 

[Olegonic]

My AUDI R10 TDI has a GREAT understeer which never happened to this car before update. I do not know what it is: Downforce, grip, physics or something else was changed???

 

[UnshavenYapper]

I haven't seen anything to suggest that it isn't. Before there was usually a ringer in each PP range, but now nearly any car you can add tons of horsepower to is going to be a ringer.

Hence why i dont think this is worse then before.

before 2.10 we had like 4 or 5 cars dominating the 500pp rooms, what if we have 20 now? wouldnt that be better?

maybe some people just hate this new system course their precious NSX and CSL now will be running in the back of the pack

 

[LeadFootLiam]

Not sure this needed it's own thread...

Lots of other people did.

 

[Tornado]

Hence why i dont think this is worse then before.

before 2.10 we had like 4 or 5 cars dominating the 500pp rooms, what if we have 20 now? wouldnt that be better?

Not really, no. 4 or 5 cars is easy to work around. It requires nothing more than the room host asking that that the people in the room use something other than the NSX or Elise or M3.

This current system basically throws out any cars that you can't put several hundred horsepower into to game the PP system. How are you supposed to setup a 600pp room now when one car can have 650 hp and weigh less and handle great when another can have only 500 and still need to be chopped down? How are you supposed to set up a 450pp room now when cars that previously were upper level at 500 are now nearly 450 out of the box?

 

[UnshavenYapper]

How are you supposed to setup a 600pp room now when one car can have 650 hp and weigh less and handle great when another can have only 500 and still need to be chopped down? How are you supposed to set up a 450pp room now when cars that previously were upper level at 500 are now nearly 450 out of the box?

Well, thats what we have to wait and find out, i doubt that it can be determined in less then 20 hours....there are over 1100cars in this game. maybe in 3 weeks or so we'll be seeing new grids online with cars no one ever dared to use before.

 

[BkS]

Can always bank on PD to screw something up with an update.

 

[Z1-AV69]

Whatever they wanted to achieve, that balancing didn't work. They only produced more unbalanced cars. The speed differences on straights at a given PP-level are surreal now, so are starts with a longer way to first corner. They need to fix it, online PP-racing is badly broken.

 

[GBRC tyrrell]

They've nothing short of ruined something that was totally fine. They've even changed the PP values of some lesser-spotted cars, like the Altezza touring car.

All they had to do was to slightly increase the PP values of those culprit cars that dominate in online racing. You all know the ones: NSX, LFA, Weider, Elise, M3 CSL, GT-R, Evora.

What PD have done is stupid and downright unprofessional. If this isn't fixed PRONTO, so I can get on with my latest race series idea, then it will have been the final straw.

 

[GTPorsche]

PP values never meant a car was even with another car at a particular PP figure.

 

[Moontallico]

PP values never meant a car was even with another car at a particular PP figure.

I'm preety sure they were meant to work as classes to make for even, close racing.
But if not, then what were they meant to be for?
Do you mind clearing that out?

 

[GTPorsche]

I'm preety sure they were meant to work as classes to make for even, close racing.
But if not, then what were they meant to be for?
Do you mind clearing that out?

As Wardez posted:

Well we can't seem to find a pattern, rhyme or reason to the differences, so... it's broken pretty much.





Yeah, this is a set of spec's (pre 2.10 of course) that we used in a series of GT500 cars that had them all on an equal level of performance, check out the differences:

Those are all cars that ran in the same real life spec series. Look how "even" they are when it comes to PP values.

And no, PP doesn't make classes. It's just a suggested performance range.

 

[Tornado]

Those are all cars that ran in the same real life spec series. Look how "even" they are when it comes to PP values.

So with the exception of one outlier which has been named as one PD should have tweaked rather than do this, it was pretty easy to make them close indeed as far as PP and performance goes? I don't get what your point is, particularly when this is what it is now:

 

[Johnnypenso]

They've nothing short of ruined something that was totally fine. They've even changed the PP values of some lesser-spotted cars, like the Altezza touring car.

All they had to do was to slightly increase the PP values of those culprit cars that dominate in online racing. You all know the ones: NSX, LFA, Weider, Elise, M3 CSL, GT-R, Evora.

What PD have done is stupid and downright unprofessional. If this isn't fixed PRONTO, so I can get on with my latest race series idea, then it will have been the final straw.

Agreed. It makes much more sense to take the top 20 or 30 cars and penalize them 5 or 10 PP or however it works out, than take 100 bloated, crappy handling, nose heavy cars and boost them 200 hp hoping it'll equalize itself from Eiger to LeMans.

PP values never meant a car was even with another car at a particular PP figure.

It sort of did, but you can't expect to equalize cars at the extremes of weight and HP and handling over short medium and long tracks and have it all work out perfectly. But if you threw out a few supercars, or grouped them together, then sorted out your other cars in groups it worked pretty well. Keep your Jags and Astons and Maseratis together, your 4wd Imprezas and Evo's etc and they could compete well against each other. But you can't take a 1750 Kilo Aston and try and equate it to a 700 kilo Elise and have it work out at Eiger, Trial Mountain and Road Course Indy, it just isn't going to happen with a one size fits all system.

 

[Jump_Ace]

Hence why i dont think this is worse then before.

before 2.10 we had like 4 or 5 cars dominating the 500pp rooms, what if we have 20 now? wouldnt that be better?

maybe some people just hate this new system course their precious NSX and CSL now will be running in the back of the pack

I'm hoping that is the case. I just haven't driven a lot of cars because they just aren't competitive at all. It would be nice to pick almost any car (can't expect every car), upgrade it and race online and be somewhere in the middle of the pack 👍


Jerome

 

[OdeFinn]

Slowly starting to think at it's a great time to change game. sh**..
Praying for a new update and I'm not a LFA/CSL/Tuningshop/Lotus/etc driver.

They should put more options on online rooms like;

* engine size/type (straight/V/W/Wankel/hybrid/etc)
* amount of cylinders
* minimum and maximum weight allowed
* list of all cars where you can tag allowed cars
* simultaneously usable PP/POWER/WEIGHT settings

and more..

At this point GT5 really feels broken.

 

[Zuel]

The recalculation of the pp was a good idea for some cars but not all the cars. So far I like what has been done though I don’t like how the code was entered. It has appeared to have only affected the normal code not the tuned code. In other words, the pp number was lowered but on some cars the power stayed or was raised to adjust what people are doing to the cars. To see what I’m talking about buy a new car. Compare the numbers to a similar and you’ll see what I’m speaking of.

Could it be their trying to even the group of cars since the majority max out the cars and detune them to perform in a particular pp number?

 

[Zuel]

At this point GT5 really feels broken.

I disagree..

 

[J91patriz]

I tried a few cars out in an online room. I can't remember all of them, but when I tried the Mercedes SL 600, making around 850hp at 550PP (with a ridiculous 114kgfm of torque), it left pretty much all of the previous 550PP kings wondering what the hell happened, providing it's at least a mid speed track.


A pattern that I'm noticing is that cars with high, but short peaky powerbands seem to have benefitted a lot from this new PP system. It could just be pure coincidence though. Muscle cars seem to be doing much better out of it though, and I think you could make some very fast 450PP cars out of them.


Here's another 500PP car that will make your eyes water. More powerful than the Supra, about 60HP less than the Carlton, but 100KG lighter than both. Don't even get me started on the Speed 12, you can have around 1000HP PER TON and still keep it around 540PP, if you wanted to run low aero.

ahah awesome in the first case that the sand castle for many collapsed but also a bit depressing... I start almost to miss the online of the prologue and that says it all. But even if we didn't have much choice of rooms setting, in fact we couldn't change anything, at least for as far as I remember races were more balanced, even if the first signs of improper pp settings were starting to show up...

 

[Whodoyouthink]

This all comes off as hilarious to me now. I see it as giving us a big advantage on seasonals. My fully tuned 86 GT/ FR-S is now at 480PP when they where at 500PP. If I set the power limiter to full again, I bet it will still be 500PP or less, but with 400 something HP. Going to make 500PP seasonals where I can use an FR even easier since I have more power

EDIT: Never mind, 480PP is the highest. I was thinking that the car does go past 400HP, but nope. around 350HP was where I would limit to to get 500PP. I think before this update, when it was at full power, it would be around 516PP with close to 390HP.

 

[Doodle]

Is anyone else having an issue with buying cars from the Toytoa dealer? When I try to buy one the game freezes and all the other dealerships worked fine. I reseted the game multiple times and it still freezes.

 

[RX-7_FD3S]

Is anyone else having an issue with buying cars from the Toytoa dealer? When I try to buy one the game freezes and all the other dealerships worked fine. I reseted the game multiple times and it still freezes.

Did you try to delete the cache on the option ?

 

[Doodle]

Did you try to delete the cache on the option ?

That worked thanks

Edit: Nope, it broke again

 

[Zuel]

I just noticed that the pp system has another major changed. It's split in two. There is a system for street cars and a system for race cars. I noticed it when buying a Toyota to see why Dood was having trouble. The 3.0 Supra is at 425 at the dealer and the NASCAR are at 568. I'm not sure in anyone else will notice it but I have.

 

[Zuel]

That worked thanks

Edit: Nope, it broke again

Back up your data on a thumb drive and re install the game.

 

[Moontallico]

I just noticed that the pp system has another major changed. It's split in two. There is a system for street cars and a system for race cars. I noticed it when buying a Toyota to see why Dood was having trouble. The 3.0 Supra is at 425 at the dealer and the NASCAR are at 568. I'm not sure in anyone else will notice it but I have.

Don't forget that race cars have something that most road cars don't, adjustable aero.
That alone gives quite a bit of extra PPs.

 

[alonsof1fan91]

Before 2.10, I always tuned most of my cars to 3 different PP levels:

450/520/575 road cars
600/650/700 race cars

I spent atleast 50% of my playing time testing and comparing cars on different tracks. The old PP sytem just didn't work.

At 575PP my 458 would beat my SL55 at Suzuka/Indi Road Course/Spa/Fuji by seconds. Why? The SL55 has a screwed up weight distrubution with stage 3 tuning. You can get it down to 47/53 IIRC, but then it would weight +1600kg and even racing softs can barely handle its additional power.


Im not even getting into the "cheat" cars (M3 GTR/CSL!).


Years ago amar suggested that PD should introduce a track factor, I wonder why PD never implemented such thing.

 

[XDesperado67]

I'm hoping that is the case. I just haven't driven a lot of cars because they just aren't competitive at all. It would be nice to pick almost any car (can't expect every car), upgrade it and race online and be somewhere in the middle of the pack 👍


Jerome

Unfortunately you still can't pick just any car.
Before you had some cars that just weren't competitive, a fairly broad group that could be competitive and a handful that were dominant at a given PP. Most of those cars are still in the same relative categories except now we have some cars that make the previously dominant cars look like their standing still.
I'm all for trying to make more cars competitive at a given PP but this update doesn't do that. Instead it makes things even less competitive.

I had a SLK 230, 120i and IS200 all with stage 2 weight reduction, 300HP and a wing set to 20 that were at 480PP prior to the update.
After the update the Mercedes is 468PP the BMW is 467PP and the Lexus is at 413PP. Their ontrack performance remains unchanged yet by PP standards they are no longer in the same class despite having very close lap times.

The new PP seems to be very random and have arbitrarily assigned values to various cars with no thought or attempt made to balance things.

On a positive note you can now win insane amounts of Cr In some seasonal races by usIng cars that now have an Insanely low PP ratIng.

 

[Wardez]

This is from a friend that had a line up of 600pp cars before the update, this is what they look like now:

New PP
Zonda R '09 - 600
GT by Citroen - 600
Honda Arta NSX '06 - 600
McLaren F1 GTR '97 - 600
Jaguar XJ220 LM - 600
Zonda LM - 600
Viper GTS-R '00 - 600
Honda Raybrig NSX '00 - 600
Lamborghini Nomad Diablo '00 - 600
Ford GT LM Spec II - 600
Nissan GT-R Concept LM - 600
Lexus Denso Dunlop SC430 '08 - 594
Gillet Vertigo '04 - 594
Nissan Xavani Nismo GT-R '08 - 593
TVR Tuscan Speed 6 RM '00 - 593
Mazda RX-8 LM Concept - 593
BMW M3 GTR '01 - 593
Audi TT-R '02 - 593
Audi R8 LMS '09 - 592
Castrol Tom's Supra '97 - (590/563)
Corvette Z06 RM '06 - 586
Toyota Yellowhat YMS Supra'05 - 567
Corvette C5-R '00 - 542
Mercedes-Benz CLK '00 - 542
Opel Astra '00 - 542
Lister Storm '99 - 537
Viper SRT-10 ACR '10 - 595
TVR Cerbera Speed 12 - 536