Update 2.10 - Major PP changes

[Zuel]

Don't forget that race cars have something that most road cars don't, adjustable aero.

That alone gives quite a bit of extra PPs.

True in the previous pp system. There is two total different pp system, I can see it but I don't have time to explain I must be off to work. Buy some new road car and tune them and compare to the old one that have been tuned and you'll see.

 

[Samus]

I just noticed that the pp system has another major changed. It's split in two. There is a system for street cars and a system for race cars. I noticed it when buying a Toyota to see why Dood was having trouble. The 3.0 Supra is at 425 at the dealer and the NASCAR are at 568. I'm not sure in anyone else will notice it but I have.

Not sure what you're getting at here?

 

[MrWednesday]

PP values never meant a car was even with another car at a particular PP figure.

They were never going to be identical, but the design should be that averaged over a representative sampling of track styles, equal PPs give approximately equal performance.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Before 2.10, I always tuned most of my cars to 3 different PP levels:

450/520/575 road cars
600/650/700 race cars

I spent atleast 50% of my playing time testing and comparing cars on different tracks. The old PP sytem just didn't work.

At 575PP my 458 would beat my SL55 at Suzuka/Indi Road Course/Spa/Fuji by seconds. Why? The SL55 has a screwed up weight distrubution with stage 3 tuning. You can get it down to 47/53 IIRC, but then it would weight +1600kg and even racing softs can barely handle its additional power.


Im not even getting into the "cheat" cars (M3 GTR/CSL!).


Years ago amar suggested that PD should introduce a track factor, I wonder why PD never implemented such thing.

No matter the system I would not expect it to be able to equate a behemoth like the SL55 with the 458 and trying to do so is fruitless. PD would be far better served to group cars and figure out a PP system that works within the group, as opposed to across groups. Can you really expect one system to work with a detuned 4wd Lamborghini vs a Caterham and the same system work to equate a 1970 lb Aston Martin Vantage with a 700 Kg Lotus Elise? I never expected it to work over that wide of a range and wasn't surprised when it didn't.

But cars that are relatively equal on the road or in a race series, should be realitvely equal on the track through the PP system. My 1750 kg BMW M5, should be on pace with my 1700 kg Jag, Aston, Maserati etc. given the same PP. My Ferraris, Lambos, Ford GT's, Zondas etc. should all be relatively the same pace under the PP system.

If it were my decision that's how I'd do it in GT6. Have pools or groups of cars with recommended operating ranges for racing that are tested to relatively equalize performance. These pools would cover all the popular classes and types of vehicles/racing. What's left that doesn't fit into one of these classes, gets into a generic system like we have now and you can take it or leave it.

 

[Jump_Ace]

This is from a friend that had a line up of 600pp cars before the update, this is what they look like now:

New PP
Zonda R '09 - 600
GT by Citroen - 600
Honda Arta NSX '06 - 600
McLaren F1 GTR '97 - 600
Jaguar XJ220 LM - 600
Zonda LM - 600
Viper GTS-R '00 - 600
Honda Raybrig NSX '00 - 600
Lamborghini Nomad Diablo '00 - 600
Ford GT LM Spec II - 600
Nissan GT-R Concept LM - 600
Lexus Denso Dunlop SC430 '08 - 594
Gillet Vertigo '04 - 594
Nissan Xavani Nismo GT-R '08 - 593
TVR Tuscan Speed 6 RM '00 - 593
Mazda RX-8 LM Concept - 593
BMW M3 GTR '01 - 593
Audi TT-R '02 - 593
Audi R8 LMS '09 - 592
Castrol Tom's Supra '97 - (590/563)
Corvette Z06 RM '06 - 586
Toyota Yellowhat YMS Supra'05 - 567
Corvette C5-R '00 - 542
Mercedes-Benz CLK '00 - 542
Opel Astra '00 - 542
Lister Storm '99 - 537
Viper SRT-10 ACR '10 - 595
TVR Cerbera Speed 12 - 536

Thanks for this buddy.

My Mobil 1 NSX '01 car was also set at 600 and dropped to 595

Jerome

 

[Samus]

This is yet another reason that shows PD need a community manager. If changes this significant were made in the other game there would be direct feedback from the devs in a blog saying what changes they made, why they made them and how it works, roughly. With PD we're left in the dark, as usual.

 

[Z1-AV69]

Just saw 550 PP Speed 12 on RS tyres do a 8.00 online race (standing start with competition) at 24h Nürburgring: lol. There aren't more cars at the top now, it's fewer and they are further apart then ever.

Restricting only by PP wasn't perfect in 2.09 and before, but it worked somehow. In 2.10 I think we can forget about that. I'm thinking about restricting my rooms by PP and power now to filter this stuff out.

Edit: Time went down to 7.56. Thats ca. 10 sec quicker than the NSX-R Prototype Road Car, which was the king of 2.09 and already over the top.

 

[Wardez]

You can't restrict PP and power & weight at the same time, it's either or so you'll have to go for p/w restrictions, but then with that every one's just going to limit the engines on their racecars and call it a day.

I'm sorry to say, but PD really ruined racing for a lot of people. I never race in public lobbies, only league races, but I feel for you guys.

 

[SubaruWRC555]

Yeah I usually run a FIA GT room with roadcars at 550pp. Now it's completely trash!! My Audi R8 that was at 550 is now rated at 570! And to detune to my room spec kills the car. Guess I gotta look at the hp/weight route now

 

[MOTORTRENDmitch]

The whole PP system has never really worked out. You can't really calculate how well a chassis works with a car, or how much actual grip the car generates.. I've never used the PP system, but instead performance balanced myself.

 

[mike_gt3]

They would need to adjust case by case to make it closer, not just random formula.

 

[Z1-AV69]

You can't restrict PP and power & weight at the same time, it's either or so you'll have to go for p/w restrictions, but then with that every one's just going to limit the engines on their racecars and call it a day.

I'm sorry to say, but PD really ruined racing for a lot of people. I never race in public lobbies, only league races, but I feel for you guys.

Too bad it doesn't work. Does anyone have better ideas how to restrict rooms now to get proper racing back?

 

[sumbrownkid]

My Toyota GT-One at 750 HP and max downforce dropped from 701PP to 693PP, but mysteriously all my other LMPs at similar specs did not lose points...

 

[Wardez]

Well, you can restrict by hp & weight then just not allow certain cars, may have to rely on using that car filter " Super GT cars, Road cars(does that exist?), Ferraris etc.) in combination with p/w.

 

[Z1-AV69]

Well, you can restrict by hp & weight then just not allow certain cars, may have to rely on using that car filter " Super GT cars, Road cars(does that exist?), Ferraris etc.) in combination with p/w.

The old PP system was better than power/weight restrictions, so I'd rather keep PP and not allow certain cars. But that's a lot to manage as host in a open room.

 

[leeson]

Polyphony Digital:
If it ain't broke, we'll fix that.

 

[Samus]

Polyphony Digital:
If it ain't broke, we'll fix that.

It was broken though, they just didn't fix it.

 

[Highlandor]

Do they not qc the patches? Or are we the test mules?

2 years later, the online portion is what's keeping this title alive. To screw it up like this is inexcusable.

I think Kaz wants to retire, so he's doing everything possible to stop people playing GT5 so he doesn't have to bother anymore..

Seeing as updates were bug-ridden 2 years ago, and they're still doing it now, there's no surprise anymore...

The PP system wasn't perfect before, but now it's totally destroyed. PD really made a mess of this last update.

They were going for a hat-trick - 2.08 & 2.09 & now 2.10


On topic: just been through my garages checking road cars, we've raced these wit same regulations for nearly 2 years now, so was interested to check to see which ones had pp changes.

The "Z"'s have all dropped from 530pp to around 500 (some below, some above).

Two of the biggest "cheat cars" for historic road racing (Merc 190e and Nissan KPGC10 '70) have dropped from 450pp to under 400pp - they were almost untouchable at 450pp before, but now?

Same at 530pp - the Amuse 380rs and 350Z rs were very, very fast at 530pp, now they're under 500pp.

But the EVOs are the same - slow as 🤬

Interestingly - BMW M3gtr still at 530pp...

Some of my 400pp cars are now 360pp too... There's no correlation 100%, but alot of FR cars (from historic to modern day) seemed to have been given a huge boost.

I bet someone at PD was supposed to do an adjustment for a specific drivetrain/genre but did a typo on the update and some FR cars got updated in error instead. Some of the cars (i.e. Merc 190e / Amuse 380rs) getting huge PP "boosts" were so fast before 2.10 - no way can that be right.

But then again, it's PD we're talking about, so.....

Once again all the organisors who've spent so much time testing cars to equalize performance (for series) now have to do it all over again.

This is the 5th/6th/7th time now - it's beyond a joke.

PD & GT5 = biggest failure in video gaming history 👎

 

[Zuel]

After reading all the comments no one has bothered to build a fresh car. Everyone is still crying about how the system changed everything. Build a new car and do some test instead of complaining. I can't wait to get home to do some testing with the PP chart.

 

[TheeFrogmanlego]

PD did not make cars faster. the PP just changed..

 

[Mrtrent1024]

Toyota Supra RZ 97, 725 hp 1330 kg's 525 pp
Nissan Skyline R34 Spec Nur 02 415 hp 1260kgs 525 pp

i am all for the supra RZ i had no problem keeping up to R34's on the track, this BS right here is just insulting. good job PD ....

 

[Duman079]

Toyota Supra RZ 97, 725 hp 1330 kg's 525 pp
Nissan Skyline R34 Spec Nur 02 415 hp 1260kgs 525 pp

i am all for the supra RZ i had no problem keeping up to R34's on the track, this BS right here is just insulting. good job PD ....

That's just ridiculous...

My friend his Bluebird Skyline dropped by 75 PP :S. I had no problems with the precious one.

 

[llNovall]

So far, i like the change. I was in a 540pp restricted room today, and a nsx type r was in the lineup. I chose a mercedes c63 amg. Before, this car had no chance against the nsxr at this level. Now, while the c63 cannot corner anywhere near as fast as the nsxr, it can run it down on the straightaways with the extra power. Im not sure what the hp and weight was on the nsxr at 540pp, but my c63 was 1400+kg and 736hp at 540pp. Made for a head to head race. I'll have to do more runs to see if there are some consistancies with this.

 

[RandomCarGuy17]

I've noticed some different changes to my premium cars aside from pp level. It seems whenever I drive one of them, the hp increases. My Red C7 started out with 463hp after changing the oil and now after a few drives; it has 470hp. I tested this on a couple other cars too, my veyron's hp stayed the same after a couple runs on SSRX (that's why I figured that it only happens to premium cars), but my Audi R8 went from 538hp to 540hp after one race and my Ferrari 458 went from 546hp to 547hp.

 

[Duman079]

I've noticed some different changes to my premium cars aside from pp level. It seems whenever I drive one of them, the hp increases. My Red C7 started out with 463hp after changing the oil and now after a few drives; it has 470hp. I tested this on a couple other cars too, my veyron's hp stayed the same after a couple runs on SSRX (that's why I figured that it only happens to premium cars), but my Audi R8 went from 538hp to 540hp after one race and my Ferrari 458 went from 546hp to 547hp.

The HP rises cause the engine's of your cars are breaking in. I didn't know that in the first place either . HP of new cars rise ''fast''.

 

[Wardez]

After reading all the comments no one has bothered to build a fresh car. Everyone is still crying about how the system changed everything. Build a new car and do some test instead of complaining. I can't wait to get home to do some testing with the PP chart.

I built another Yellowhat Supra and it was the exact same newly reduced PP and all, what do you think can change with a new car?

 

[R34EVO9]

My premium 350z at 500pp can rape nsx and BMW m3 now by sometime its pretty crazy now

 

[RandomCarGuy17]

The HP rises cause the engine's of your cars are breaking in. I didn't know that in the first place either . HP of new cars rise ''fast''.

Oh, alright then.

 

[Zuel]

I built another Yellowhat Supra and it was the exact same newly reduced PP and all, what do you think can change with a new car?

Did you have any other parts on the old car besides stock parts? As in motor mod and larger turbo.

 

[R34EVO9]

i PERSONALLY THINK NEW PP SYSTEM RUINED 4wd cars.. they are so slow now compared to rwd cars at the same pp