Update 2.10 - Major PP changes
- Thread starter crazy206
- 774 comments
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- 1,124
- TexasTyme214
- 3,308
- Kentucky
- Chrunch_Houston
Ok. Last night I gave it a chance and ran my room at 425 pp. I was actually kind of excited. My old e-type jag seemed really fast just needed a little spring tightening. The merc 190 evo was an animal. I was excited to see what other cars would be good now.
Tonight I started at 450pp. *Sigh*
If I wanted to drive that fast I would run 550pp rooms.
All of my FF cars and MR cars are useless.
This really does suck.
I didnt complain at all about all the cars that wanted to flip over after the 2.09 update I retuned and marched on. I actually liked the increased grip.
There is no way to retune after this update. You now have cars with over 200hp differences running at the same PP.
Do I ban FR cars from the room? Yeah, that would be LOTS of fun.
I guess Im going to have to go back to HP/WT rooms.
Its funny. I resisted switching from HP/WT rooms for the longest time. I was grinding hard (NOT glitching) to be able to afford the best streetcars available. I still remember spending 750,000cr for my 1st really expensive car a honda HSC. I thought PP rooms were, well, Communistic. How dare some one with a Civic beat my expensive car. Once money was no object I switched to PP rooms.
Now the PP rooms are not just Communistic they are Soviet Communistic.
It is fair for all cars except it is more fair for some cars. I hate it.
Does anyone at PD actually play this game?
Tonight I started at 450pp. *Sigh*
If I wanted to drive that fast I would run 550pp rooms.
All of my FF cars and MR cars are useless.
This really does suck. I didnt complain at all about all the cars that wanted to flip over after the 2.09 update I retuned and marched on. I actually liked the increased grip.
There is no way to retune after this update. You now have cars with over 200hp differences running at the same PP.
Do I ban FR cars from the room? Yeah, that would be LOTS of fun.
I guess Im going to have to go back to HP/WT rooms.
Its funny. I resisted switching from HP/WT rooms for the longest time. I was grinding hard (NOT glitching) to be able to afford the best streetcars available. I still remember spending 750,000cr for my 1st really expensive car a honda HSC. I thought PP rooms were, well, Communistic. How dare some one with a Civic beat my expensive car. Once money was no object I switched to PP rooms.
Now the PP rooms are not just Communistic they are Soviet Communistic.
It is fair for all cars except it is more fair for some cars. I hate it. Does anyone at PD actually play this game?
- 286
- United Kingdom
- tyrrell_1
I don't want to put any work in tuning and testing cars, only for them to change it again - and change it again they'd better, soon. Yes, a game should be about play and not work, but some of the best fun I've had in the game has come about from doing a bit of 'work' beforehand.
As someone who also does a good amount of public lobby racing, this matters a lot to me.
I've basically held fire on all GT5 activity, including offline stuff.
- 2,428
- England
- Lewis_Hamilton_
You know what, I've come to love this update.
For months, I have been tinkering away offline at old, looked over underdog cars, ranging from 60-70's Japanese cars to 50-70's American muscle cars and trying to make them competitive for online PP races.
The other factor I put into my tuning is to give my cars a real sense or style of track day driving/handling, so that I'm having a lot of fun while also trying to win. Now, with this update, I find it absolutely hilarious how my entire collection of old bangers and scrapyard metal is now spanking all these brand new, high tech supercars.
I love that I can have 200 yard tank slappers with a bonkers classic V8 engine banging away at 8000RPM and still pull away from the typical PP 'cheat' cars as some people call them. Makes you feel like that one crazy guy you always get at an open track day 👍
In fact, this is what I'm on about
For months, I have been tinkering away offline at old, looked over underdog cars, ranging from 60-70's Japanese cars to 50-70's American muscle cars and trying to make them competitive for online PP races.
The other factor I put into my tuning is to give my cars a real sense or style of track day driving/handling, so that I'm having a lot of fun while also trying to win. Now, with this update, I find it absolutely hilarious how my entire collection of old bangers and scrapyard metal is now spanking all these brand new, high tech supercars.
I love that I can have 200 yard tank slappers with a bonkers classic V8 engine banging away at 8000RPM and still pull away from the typical PP 'cheat' cars as some people call them. Makes you feel like that one crazy guy you always get at an open track day 👍
In fact, this is what I'm on about
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- 2,884
- Near Reading, Uk
- JohnSchoonsBeard
Yes it was. It has improved some cars competitiveness while others have been adjusted too much
I hope they don't get so many complaints they just switch it all back. This is a good idea. pre 80s cars neededhelp to race against modern cars using the pp system. It's just been inconsistently executed.
I hope they don't get so many complaints they just switch it all back. This is a good idea. pre 80s cars neededhelp to race against modern cars using the pp system. It's just been inconsistently executed.
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- 286
- United Kingdom
- tyrrell_1
I'm all for bringing up underdog cars, but they need to be intelligent about it. This means NOT also improving already-advantageous cars, like the S2000 LM and Altezza TC. NOT taking this sledgehammer approach that they adopted this time.
There's no excuse with that TOM'S Chaser that featured in pictures previously. This is not an underdog car. I've beaten Scuderias at 550pp in that thing.
There's no excuse with that TOM'S Chaser that featured in pictures previously. This is not an underdog car. I've beaten Scuderias at 550pp in that thing.
- 2,643
- Finland
- OdeFinn
Sorry for quoting, but Yes I have tested build a new car, and there is no difference between it or car what I already have, break' in kilometers missing, nothing else:
exam:
Scion FR-S fully tuned(no aero) on garage: 388HP/1092KG 477PP
Scion FR-S fully tuned(no aero) Fresh one: 376HP/1092KG 473PP
FR-S was 507PP car on 2.09
Only funniest thing was that on Shop it shows 379PP and when you buy it, it shows on garage 375PP, if this is your mentioned thing.. yeah -4PP on fresh -30pp fully tuned.
And if you think at this will keep people running nearer to stock cars there is few major problems before it can be done:
We NEED settings to lobbies:
* Where you can adjust how many percent power limiter is allowed to use.
* How much ballast is allowed.
* Allowed parts/settings listing
* and much more..
- 321
- Australia
- Cyber77__
New pp system defiantly needs attention, by adding stage 3 engine tune to a otherwise fully tuned speed 12 it lowers pp from 600 to 599 
- 286
- United Kingdom
- tyrrell_1
R34EVO9
(Banned)
- 767
- USA.CT
- h3llaflshh
I only race sport tires and they where pretty even before now the gap is too big bettween fr> mr>ff >and 4wd .. I love 4wd cars cause i drive a evo 9 in real life and this is prolly going to be the the reason why i stop playing.. It was bad enough i had to work really hard to get the evos faster than most cars nw its just impossible... and its the same for any 4wd drivetrain
- 5,436
- Bel Air, MD
- NOVA-0479
Pp system was obviously put in place to equalize the grid. I made mention earlier in this thread about using a c63 against an nsxr at 540pp and it being competetive which i like. However, i raced at rome with the same 2 cars but at 500pp on race softs. My best posted time was a 1:08.7, whereas the nsxr could only get me in the 1:10's. PD is on the right track, but still needs to zeroed in. It is fun having chess matches on track between fast cornering cars vs fast high powered straightaway cars. Again, just my opinion so far, but i'll have to do more testing on different tires to see if this offset still applies.
- 9,761
- Portland, OR
- Jump_Ace
- JUMPxACE
I had the same experience last night, my Audi 4.2 Tronic got smoked in a 550pp room at Deep Forest. I know it's not the fastest car at 550pp, but it should've still kept me in the middle of the pack, but it has no straight speed at all in comparison.
Jerome
- 2,095
- Burke, Fairfax,
- GTP_STRIKER
- Xbox SUCKS
So all three of them have the same number's even though one is maxed out?
From what I found so far running our cars at 100% power in a group format works better. At the moment Rock and I are messing around with 555/563 pp group. Most of the cars are running at 100% and some at 96.1% and there's not much of a difference.
- 11,660
- GTP_Orido
Maybe putting comfort tire restriction would make those overpowered cars harder to handle, and make the gap closer on corners ? I often host comfort medium only room, with over 500HP cars, they are a handful to drive. I think 500PP Supra on comfort soft or medium would struggle against AWD or MR cars at the same PP level.
- 2,247
- Athens
- VQS_Ntinoskonsta
My Toyota 86 GT dropped from around 450pp to 388pp. I was like 
I'll buy a Supra RIGHT NOW.
EDIT (7 minutes later): It didn't pop up in the UCD or OCD. I got the NSX though. Oh the irony. I'm gonna get pummeled by a Supra.
The NSX has 464pp. U MAD KAZ?
~GT5Power
What? The NSX finally got beaten?
I'll buy a Supra RIGHT NOW.
EDIT (7 minutes later): It didn't pop up in the UCD or OCD. I got the NSX though. Oh the irony. I'm gonna get pummeled by a Supra.
The NSX has 464pp. U MAD KAZ?
~GT5Power
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- 1,137
But thats the idea behind the PP system. It just needs refinement.
IMO they should do following:
First, give us the option to set PP AND HP/weight for online servers. With this you can "ban" cars abusing the PP systems flaws.
Second, split the PP rating into 2 different ones: Power and handling.
Third, include a track factor.
To show you what I mean, one example:
Ferrari 458 Italia 520hp/1250kg
Power rating: 260
Handling rating: 330
Fuji Speedway GT
Power coefficent: 1.3
Handling coefficent: 0.8
Suzuka
Power coefficent: 1
Handling coefficient: 1.2
PP Rating Fuji: 260*1.3+330*0.8=602PP
PP Rating Suzuka: 260*1+330*1.2=656PP
MB SL55 AMG 650HP/1500kg
Power rating: 325
Handling rating: 210
Same tracks
PP rating Fuji: 325*1.3+210*0.8=603.5PP
PP rating Suzuka: 325*1+210*1.2=577PP
I think it should be clear that, at this specs (with no aero), both cars could be evenly matched at Fuji, while at Suzuka the Ferrari runs away.
- 226
- nb
- bloodredsky
has anyone tried to compile a list of cars that have been affected by the 'lowering of the PP' in this update? i mainly only race street cars, but cars that i have found to be a different, lower, PP now are:
ruf3400s -55PP
nissan fairlady z -33PP
06 z06 corvette -15PP
frs/brz/86gt -30PP
08 challenger -50PP
aston martin v12 vantage -16PP
380rs/350z rs -50PP
the challenger is hilarious, 790hp at 541PP...strange update imo..not bad - just odd
ruf3400s -55PP
nissan fairlady z -33PP
06 z06 corvette -15PP
frs/brz/86gt -30PP
08 challenger -50PP
aston martin v12 vantage -16PP
380rs/350z rs -50PP
the challenger is hilarious, 790hp at 541PP...strange update imo..not bad - just odd
- 1,124
- TexasTyme214
I like this, but it could be bothersome to keep up with multiple ratings for each car. The only problem that might occur is if the power and handling ratings aren't properly rated. In your example, I think the SL55's power rating is too high with respect to the 458. The power/weight ratios aren't far apart, and the 458 has at two extra gears IIRC. This is a great idea though. PD needs to see this.
- 916
alonsof1fan91
Good to see someone posting something sensible about the pp system.
Pp is a flawed simplification of a difficult but almost always solvable problem.
The idea that certain cars will "always be faster" is utterly nonsense. Given the scope of tuning and detuning possible within gt5, the spectrum of cars which could be matched to any one other car on any particular track is vast. And if not, it's quite obvious that their pp should not match. The only difficulty is rating them accurately.
I like the idea of factoring in a track rating. Pp in its current form has to be based on an average speed track, you couldn't set it for parity at Kart Space, nor route x, and expect cars to be equal at Motegi.
Unfortunately though, it's not good enough for such a refinement to be worthwhile, and never has been. Old cars are quite hopeless, especially if they have thinner tyres. Ever tried ae86 vs s2000?
I wish we had good enough a.i for an a.i driver to run laps with your car and give it a truly accurate rating based not on how new it is or how "good" it is, but by how fast it can lap a circuit, even if it's just one, average, circuit.
- 2,119
- Prague
- karelpipa
Perfomance points must take into account tracks characteristics too! Its the most important thing.
Example:
800+HP Buick Special (500PP) Vs 400HP Honda NSX Type R (500PP)
Who will win at La Sarthe? Buick!
Who will win at Autumn Ring Mini? Honda, maybe
Perfomance points should differ from track to track even at same power.
Example:
Buick at La Sarthe with 800HP should have something about 650-700PP against NSX's 400HP at 500PP for example.
Next thing is Aero setting.
Example:
800+HP Buick Special (500PP) Vs 400HP Honda NSX Type R (500PP)
Who will win at La Sarthe? Buick!
Who will win at Autumn Ring Mini? Honda, maybe
Perfomance points should differ from track to track even at same power.
Example:
Buick at La Sarthe with 800HP should have something about 650-700PP against NSX's 400HP at 500PP for example.
Next thing is Aero setting.
- 189
- Australia
We did a league night last night. We have three classes, TC500 (500pp 4 door), GT590 (Japanese 2WD racers @590pp) and 650Open (650pp 2WD, TCR, Racers).
Of the three classes only TC500 has been decimated. So many cars that were 500pp are now 430pp or around there, and have no tuning to uplift any more. Cars such as the ISF and C-Class Merc benefited hugely, they had power restrictions on and you could almost negate that, 200Bhp+ uplift time.
The GT590's are pretty unscathed, the NSXs that folks were racing aren't any where near as dominant now, no bad thing. My HSV isn't either, but I think that might be more me on the night.
The 650Open class was as was. No changes at all really. Toyota GT One gained a few Hp, all marginal really.
I was gutted at the changes, and damn dear called a halt to league racing, but on reflection I reckon it's probably not so bad, some levelling needed and certainly the lower Hp F/R cars have been largely affected, but league racing will remain. Phew.
[Edit] And actually we'll do some test runs in the 4wds in the higher classes, this levelling may help.
Of the three classes only TC500 has been decimated. So many cars that were 500pp are now 430pp or around there, and have no tuning to uplift any more. Cars such as the ISF and C-Class Merc benefited hugely, they had power restrictions on and you could almost negate that, 200Bhp+ uplift time.
The GT590's are pretty unscathed, the NSXs that folks were racing aren't any where near as dominant now, no bad thing. My HSV isn't either, but I think that might be more me on the night.
The 650Open class was as was. No changes at all really. Toyota GT One gained a few Hp, all marginal really.
I was gutted at the changes, and damn dear called a halt to league racing, but on reflection I reckon it's probably not so bad, some levelling needed and certainly the lower Hp F/R cars have been largely affected, but league racing will remain. Phew.
[Edit] And actually we'll do some test runs in the 4wds in the higher classes, this levelling may help.
- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
Perfomance points must take into account tracks characteristics too! Its the most important thing.
Example:
800+HP Buick Special (500PP) Vs 400HP Honda NSX Type R (500PP)
Who will win at La Sarthe? Buick!
Who will win at Autumn Ring Mini? Honda, maybe
Perfomance points should differ from track to track even at same power.
Example:
Buick at La Sarthe with 800HP should have something about 650-700PP against NSX's 400HP at 500PP for example.
Next thing is Aero setting.
This is the missing key to the PP system, it must be tailored to the track. There is no one size fits all system that can go from track to track and still work given that the one variable that counts for the most, track layout, isn't in the system. Without that, the PP system will never, ever work, at least not on most tracks.
- 1,124
- TexasTyme214
I don't think the location of the engine has to do with the changes. However, cars that were poor in the handling department did receive benefits. The reason why could be general weight distribution, overall grip, weight, etc. The Gillet Vertigo, for example, is a car with 50/50 weight distribution, a fair amount of downforce, and low weight, but it has terrible mechanical grip. A couple TVRs in the game have the same scenario (without the downforce). It's almost like PD looked at every popular car online and boosted the FR cars that didn't make that list.
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