Update 2.10 - Major PP changes

[RCKakashi14]

If you want to troll around 500pp races, you can now max out a Roadster TC. It is now less than 500pp when maxed out with downforce levels at max. Before the update, it's rated at 523pp (which should be, in my opinion)

But in turn, this would become a "cheap" way to win, isn't it? And it could probably be banned in 500pp rooms...

The rest of the cars' PP levels are fine to me, though.

 

[C6.R]

I think the Honda sounda amazing now. Have to wear earplugs to avoid getting deaf from that thrilling V10 haha

 

[Zuel]

All my cars tuned to a stage 1 or 2 motor are performing well.

 

[XDesperado67]

GT5 is billed as the real driving simulator, as such making a functional PP system should be relatively simple since they have all the needed data.
Part of the problem with the PP system both before 2:10 and after was the odd decision to remove tires from the equation. Be that as it may, they have all needed information for a highly accurate system and yet have failed to use it.
Using factors like HP, Weight, Drag Coefficient and Lateral Grip it is relatively easy to determine things like Acceleration, Top speed and the theoretical fastest time possible for a car around a closed circuit.
The game already has to make all those calculations so a 2CV doesn't have the same speed and lap times as a X2011.
Why PD has had so much difficulty providing us with an accurate and useable PP system is beyond me.
Yes certain cars will be more difficult to drive at their absolute limits, but that is the same in real life.

 

[97z28]

Love the changes to the PP system. Now it gives other cars a chance to shine in online races for street cars instead of the few that ruled 500pp. A while back I hosted a street cars only lobby that filled all 16 spots.

14 of the 16 cars were standard M3s, type R NSX, and Evora. That was insane.

 

[tlsuth41]

Adjusting the pp probably would not have been an all bad thing. However now we have a few cars that not only have an advantage. They are simply stupid fast.

In my opinion they could have dropped the performance on a few cars such as the NSX, LFA, M3 and slightly boosted some others.

Way too much help for some cars for sure.

 

[Steph290]

"Way too much" is an understatement! I've been wondering what factors PD used in calculating the pp, but now Im pretty confident they took into consideration certain cars' stock handling characteristics and decided to just add the amount of extra power needed for those cars to keep up with their pp counterparts. Fun for kids who like to run RS rooms with SRF and no tire wear. To the purist or car enthusiast who enjoys tuning the power, suspension and transmission of cheaper cars and getting them to hang with more expensive cars with better chassis, this is the straw that breaks the camels back. There are just so many things wrong now that for the first time since my GT3 data got erased, Im packing up my wheel and calling it done because there is no such thing as close clean races with friends anymore (unless you choose the new try-hard vehicles). I'll keep an eye out on the forums for news of positive change. Its been fun while it lasted.

 

[GT5Power]

do you mean that a full tuned nsx went from 550 to 564? that would actually make sense, considering it is much lighter than many other of its rivals.

No, I meant 464 stock, but fully tuned it went from 550 to 500.

What about the Honda HSC? It used to dominate 530pp.

~GT5Power

 

[Giygas]

I'm pretty sure someone said that they think there is no set PP calcs, but rather each car gets its own base PP and the PP is adjusted uniquely for that car.

If that's the case, then the reason why FR cars are getting lower PP is because PD altered the base PP for specific cars and the rate of change for those cars.

 

[atiger]

If you want to see what's wrong with the PP system now have a look at the Ruf 3400. This car was competitive in 500ish PP lobbies with most of the quick cars.

The 3400 at max power has dropped from around 530PP to 478PP, this is completely absurd. Run a Ruf RGT around any track at 478PP, then compare the lap times to what the Ruf 3400 will do now.

The PP system wasn't perfect before, but now it's so broken, that what PD has done must be the law of unintended consequence at work.

 

[TwistyDrift]

If you want to see what's wrong with the PP system now have a look at the Ruf 3400. This car was competitive in 500ish PP lobbies with most of the quick cars.

The 3400 at max power has dropped from around 530PP to 478PP, this is completely absurd. Run a Ruf RGT around any track at 478PP, then compare the lap times to what the Ruf 3400 will do now.

The PP system wasn't perfect before, but now it's so broken, that what PD has done must be the law of unintended consequence at work.

It's not too bad, I'm sure they will fix it again in the future once somebody has mentioned it to them again.

 

[StevenDunn99]

With all the PP changes, did PD do anything with the 2J ?

 

[97z28]

Gone are the days of try hard cars standard m3s, type R NSX, evora, detuned LFAs beating up on everyone at 500pp and below. I actually seen a large variety of cars used today, even american muscle cars from the 60's-early 2000's models.

Great job PD. I had a blast in my 2000 SS Camaro tonight.

 

[kp101]

Something is definatly wrong with the pp mods. I have an Altezza rs200, it had 450 pp before the update. After 2.10 it had less than 400pp. I tuned it to 400pp and now it's ridiculously fast. I tested it vs my DelSol (DelSol was one of my best for 400pp races) which stayed at 400pp after the update, and I'm 2 to 3 seconds faster per lap on multiple tracks in the Altezza. Looking through my garage, I now see cars with the same pp but one is much lighter AND 100hp more. WTF!!! The reason the BMWs and NSXs were fast is because, when compared to other cars with the same power to weight ratio, they handle better. They are better cars, period. Just like in real life. In an effort to even things out they've created God cars at certain pp levels. Good job guys on keeping with the whole, you know, simulator thing. Pure fail.

 

[97z28]

Something is definatly wrong with the pp mods. I have an Altezza rs200, it had 450 pp before the update. After 2.10 it had less than 400pp. I tuned it to 400pp and now it's ridiculously fast. I tested it vs my DelSol (DelSol was one of my best for 400pp races) which stayed at 400pp after the update, and I'm 2 to 3 seconds faster per lap on multiple tracks in the Altezza. Looking through my garage, I now see cars with the same pp but one is much lighter AND 100hp more. WTF!!! The reason the BMWs and NSXs were fast is because, when compared to other cars with the same power to weight ratio, they handle better. They are better cars, period. Just like in real life. In an effort to even things out they've created God cars at certain pp levels. Good job guys on keeping with the whole, you know, simulator thing. Pure fail.

Hello Kp101. Your MR2 was eating dust against 2000 SS tonight. Just want to say you are a clean driver and I enjoyed stomping on your imports tonight in my SS.

 

[doc555evosti]

Maybe someone's hacked PD and making these updates as a joke

 

[karelpipa]

You just cant compare FF car to any other car with same PPs, kp101.

 

[tazmanuk]

Hi

This sounds like a good idea.
It will allow a greater variety of cars on track.
Now where is my TVR T350C lets see if it can compete.

Regards

 

[Milouse]

I'm yet to have found the (hopefully) right measure to take for mygranturismo.net database about all this, do we have an idea of the number of cars affected? I didn't see much (after checking a few Premium cars), but have no idea of the % of all cars (+1100).

 

[kp101]

Hello Kp101. Your MR2 was eating dust against 2000 SS tonight. Just want to say you are a clean driver and I enjoyed stomping on your imports tonight in my SS.

You will continue to enjoy it because handling means nothing anymore. Your SS weighs close to what my MR2 did but you had nearly 200hp more. You had me from the start and the gap widened with every straight. You mentioned in the lobby that you had a full room of M3s, NSXs and Evoras once, things won't change. Give it a week and the rooms will be filled with the next batch of "best" cars. The difference now is: there will be less cars to choose from if you want to win in pp races.
Ps. I'm no n00b karelpipa; FF or not, my DelSol was serious competition before the update.

 

[kp101]

Hello Kp101. Your MR2 was eating dust against 2000 SS tonight. Just want to say you are a clean driver and I enjoyed stomping on your imports tonight in my SS.

You will continue to enjoy it because handling means nothing anymore. Your SS weighs close to what my MR2 did but you had nearly 200hp more. You had me from the start and the gap widened with every straight. Dont forget, my MR2's pp didnt change from 450pp after the update. We raced your SS vs my Sylvia which used to be 510pp but now is 450pp and they were an even match. You mentioned in the lobby that you had a full room of M3s, NSXs and Evoras once, things won't change. Give it a week and the rooms will be filled with the next batch of "best" cars. The difference now is: there will be less cars to choose from if you want to win in pp races.
Ps. I'm no n00b; FF or not, my DelSol was serious competition before the update.

 

[analog]

I just wish they didn't treat GT5 as a massive beta-game anymore, people bought this game, bought additional DLC and got used to playing it a certain way by now (and with no successor apparantly on this gen to look out for).
I applaud the constant finetuning of the physics (although there were a few wrong turns there as well) or patching things which aren't right but introducing quite rigorous changes this late in the game's lifespan when there's no real reason for it puzzles me to be honest.

The PP system worked fine before (not flawless mind you) and instead of handpicking the cars which were either too low or high regarding their PP number, they've changed the whole system quite radically (relatively speaking) where it really influences the way people play the game (matching certain cars).

When this new system of calculating would be more accurate or realistic (which it doesn't seem to be), then there would be a reason to defend it being changed although I again question whether it's actually beneficial this late even if it were more accurate, when you risk completely changing and potentially spoiling the usual enjoyment gained by playing the game if that accuracy had such a huge impact on the way people use it for more than 2 years now (although I think if it were indeed more accurate, it would largely enhance the gameplay and it'll mostly result in a few cars being given the amount of PP they actually deserve).

 

[alonsof1fan91]

I like this, but it could be bothersome to keep up with multiple ratings for each car. The only problem that might occur is if the power and handling ratings aren't properly rated. In your example, I think the SL55's power rating is too high with respect to the 458. The power/weight ratios aren't far apart, and the 458 has at two extra gears IIRC. This is a great idea though. PD needs to see this.

Those numbers were just examples. I don`t know exactly how the lateral dynamics of both cars compare f.e. For the power rating I just divided the cars hp by 2, which is also flawed because of the power limiter.

But its not rocket science.

If I had to come up with such a system, I would do it like this:

Power rating: Takes the cars max power/torque into account, its avarage power/torque in the last third of the rpm range also.

Handling rating: Downforce setup, downforce/drag ratio, tire width (is this implemented into GT5`s engine?), cornering stiffness, weight balance, CoG etc.


Yes, with right suspension setup you can vastly improve a cars handling, but taking this also into account, would be too much. Only the basic specs of a car should be compared with another one.

 

[dazdilly75]

I've worked out this pp system two days ago and all i hear is confusion all over the place. I don't usually post on here but here goes. The new pp system is calculated via weight distribution, car age and engine size. Any car with the FR drivetrain and weight distribution either side of 50/50 will reap the biggest pp decrease. Your go to cars are now the FR ones with the biggest weight distribution gap either side of 50/50 for example an FR car with 60/40 weight is gonna have a bigger pp decrease than a car with 53/47 add age to that and it decreases even more. One more thing to take into consideration. Those that like to run RS tyres in MR cars are all but finished. If you want your rooms competative now then you better be using SH to SS tyres that way the power boys will not find it so easy to dominate. That is what the new pp system is all about. I understand why Kaz and PD have implemented this but it does seem like the formula used is decreasing pp of the cars imentioned are double what is required. Peace out and test test test tune tune tune.... It's the only way your gonna get the best out of this new update.

 

[XDesperado67]

I've worked out this pp system two days ago and all i hear is confusion all over the place. I don't usually post on here but here goes. The new pp system is calculated via weight distribution, car age and engine size. Any car with the FR drivetrain and weight distribution either side of 50/50 will reap the biggest pp decrease. Your go to cars are now the FR ones with the biggest weight distribution gap either side of 50/50 for example an FR car with 60/40 weight is gonna have a bigger pp decrease than a car with 53/47 add age to that and it decreases even more. One more thing to take into consideration. Those that like to run RS tyres in MR cars are all but finished. If you want your rooms competative now then you better be using SH to SS tyres that way the power boys will not find it so easy to dominate. That is what the new pp system is all about. I understand why Kaz and PD have implemented this but it does seem like the formula used is decreasing pp of the cars imentioned are double what is required. Peace out and test test test tune tune tune.... It's the only way your gonna get the best out of this new update.

Uhm No...Not even close
There are a lot more FR cars that didn't get their PP changed than ones that did and some of the biggest changes in PP were on relatively new cars while many older cars regardless of weight distribution got little or no change to their PP.
Look again at all the cars that did get changed and how much they changed by then toss your formula in the trash since there obviously wasn't one used.

 

[Milouse]

Did someone already noticed a slight PP change (like +/- 15) on any car?

 

[dazdilly75]

Uhm No...Not even close
There are a lot more FR cars that didn't get their PP changed than ones that did and some of the biggest changes in PP were on relatively new cars while many older cars regardless of weight distribution got little or no change to their PP.
Look again at all the cars that did get changed and how much they changed by then toss your formula in the trash since there obviously wasn't one used.

Lol works for me and I believe it to be correct. If you have something better by all means post it.

 

[Anathema]

Well, I'm not liking this update anymore. Why? I've been kicked from three straight 500pp rooms for using the Lotus Carlton to murder the rest of the field. (Even a Supra RZ in the third room.)

I was trying to do a comparison test to see how it would match up to the rest of the field and how well my tune for it was working. Well... On Monza I took the lead entering the first turn, starting from dead last. On Trial Mountain, I had the lead on the backstretch. On the Nurburgring... even after spinning out twice I still had it by the Karrusel.

I admit, something needs to be done, but for now... let the Carlton revolution commence!

 

[dazdilly75]

I'm guessing they will now make tyres part of the pp system because that's the only way this can work. If they don't then it will depend on a self policing system which bascically means a free for all.

 

[dazdilly75]

That way it will be more like prologue where driver skill and a whole host of tuning elements will win a race and not just the car you drive. I trust PD and they like to keep us guessing which n my opinion makes it fun. Kaz is a genius and to think he'd implant such a massive change without an inability to regulate it would surprise me to say the least. Every update people have complained and after a few weeks they see the benefit. I don't think this is any different.