VCRC *Jaguar E-TYPE Coupe ‘61 @ Monte Carlo* **congrats to dsgerbc!!**

[mgrtuga]

I Guys, i just got home, can i race or it's to late?

 

[Geeky30]

Nooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Saw it started 19:54 but when I plugged in wheel the room was full (who nicked my spot!!!! ... :joking: )

 

[Gedi69]

Sorry jack if I hit you on lap 4 but it was lag, I kept a safe distance from you then suddenly me and you was everywhere then I got DC'd.

Goodluck guys!

 

[dmihaylov]

It was not good to make such start. No where in the rules for this race is pointed that will be such start. Everybody saw that there were some of us that did not understand that there will be such start. In this case you had to restart the race.

 

[GranTurismo916]

I got DCed, can't get in at all now.

 

[dsgerbc]

It was not good to make such start. No where in the rules for this race is pointed that will be such start. Everybody saw that there were some of us that did not understand that there will be such start. In this case you had to restart the race.

It helps to read the first post. Also - why restart. Plenty of time to return to your spot.

 

[TomBrady]

It was not good to make such start. No where in the rules for this race is pointed that will be such start. Everybody saw that there were some of us that did not understand that there will be such start. In this case you had to restart the race.

I thought we could've restarted it but it was definitely explained multiple times that we had to stay single file for the warm up lap. In the original post of this thread and watermelon mentioned it multiple times during practice & qualifying. It wasn't pretty but the race did get going as planned by the end of the lap and was clean for the most part

 

[V8-Johnboy]

Hmmm plodding along happily in 6th lonely but happy, Hugo and Dit have a crash in front of me i pick up 4th away i plod. I then have this Hugo geezer beeping aggresively behind me:tdown: Do you have to wait for the victims of crashes in this league even if your not involved in the accident!??!?
Then on the final lap Hugo slams me into the wall then bleeps off into the distance horn blaring away.
Very very rare for me to rage quit especially on the last lap but being bullied on track isnt my bag im afraid.
Apologies for first lap bump at the chicane was so worried about getting it right i made a bit of a mess of it think i hit Johnny someone sorry for that hope me pulling over softened the blow a little.
Jack thanks for the invite me old fruit was good sharing tarmac with you again fella.👍

 

[TomBrady]

Hmmm plodding along happily in 6th lonely but happy, Hugo and Dit have a crash in front of me i pick up 4th away i plod. I then have this Hugo geezer beeping aggresively behind me:tdown: Do you have to wait for the victims of crashes in this league even if your not involved in the accident!??!?
Then on the final lap Hugo slams me into the wall then bleeps off into the distance horn blaring away.
Very very rare for me to rage quit especially on the last lap but being bullied on track isnt my bag im afraid.
Appologies for first lap bump at the chicane was so worried about getting it right i made a bit of a mess of it think i hit Johnny someone sorry for that hope me pulling over softened the blow a little.
Jack thanks for the invite me old fruit was good sharing tarmac with you again fella.👍

I don't know what the rule is on that but honestly I thought you caused the crash between me and dit. Obviously I was wrong, I have the replay. The bump was my fault, but I didn't have a chance to let you by either. You stopped driving and quit. I didn't know how else to signal you besides beeping

 

[V8-Johnboy]

Fella if i had caused the crash i would have stopped and let both you guys by ive been around the block long enough to understand basic driving manners.
Anyway all forgotten and thanks for the pm most wouldnt bother no harm done.👍

 

[TomBrady]

Fella if i had caused the crash i would have stopped and let both you guys by ive been around the block long enough to understand basic driving manners.
Anyway all forgotten and thanks for the pm most wouldnt bother no harm done.👍

Yes you're right. I always give people a hard time for assuming things, now here I am being just as bad

 

[watermelon punch]

As for the warm-up lap:

OPENING POST:

Race Event Procedure:
Qualifying to start at scheduled arrival time
Qualifying for approximately 15 minutes
Race of approximately 40 minutes
Lap 1 will be a WARM-UP LAP.
Speed limit will be 40mph / 65kph
#1 car on starting grid will set pace.
All stay in grid order, go single file through lap one, until the last turn before the Start/Finish straight.
Near end of lap 1, drivers should close all gaps and proceed with caution.
Drivers may go to full-speed upon exiting the last turn onto the S/F straight (ie: before the S/F line)

First post about it:
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=6924627#post6924627
TEN DAYS AGO

And there were no less than 15 posts in this thread regarding the warm-up lap.

Cutting the chicane is not acceptable in any respectable organized race series I've ever known.
I've watched the WRS videos and they're not using the tarmac to make a straight line through the chicane. In 1 of the videos they dip ONE tire at a time into the chicane tarmac at most.
NOWHERE have I seen that a race series explicitly states it's OKAY to run half your car over the chicane to make a straight line.

If you guys want to split hairs to take a crazy line, go in a pub lobby where the in game penalties are set to ON as the only parameters for a race.
And everyone cuts that chicane. And the ones at Monza, and the last chicane at Sarthe where you can keep the speed even while taking the penalty... or at Nurb gd/p/f where taking the in-game penalty can save you more time than not getting a penalty.


It's a chicane.
If you're making a straight line through it. That's not a chicane!!

SagarisGTB - your comments are rather surprising since I saw you never cut the chicane in any races or practices or impromptu racing on this track.
I've seen you use the curb normally. So I'm not sure where you think the rules have been changed from anything you're normally accustomed to.

Frankly, I think a lot of this "oh you've changed the rules" is a lot of B.S. that people were pushing to get me to give the okay for a crazy line cutting the chicane. (I'm not always the sharpest knife in the drawer - but I'm also not a sap!)

 

[Johnnypenso]

In Sag's defence, the red and white curbing is considered "track" and GTPlanet's Rules clearly state "two wheels on the track at all times" I've reviewed the WRS position on this in the past from one of their weekly qualifying runs, and it's pretty clear...so long as you have two wheels on the red strips, whether your other two wheels are on the left or the right, it's still a legal lap. If at some point crossing the red/white you have four wheels "over" the tarmac on the left and don't have two wheels on the curbing it's not a legal corner.

So long as any two of your wheels are on the red and white at all times, it's not cutting, it's a legal corner.

 

[Handlebar]

So... Who won and how did it go in the end?

Sorry I couldn't make it.

 

[dsgerbc]

I was pushing for you to say "keep 4 wheels on the track" in the room. Because everyone should be aware of what you want, not just those who read the thread an hour-two prior to the race. All the discussion we had here lead me to believe that you want people to have their inside wheels on the curb, not outside wheels. It's easily worth a second per lap and everyone should be aware of it.

 

[watermelon punch]

In Sag's defence, the red and white curbing is considered "track" and GTPlanet's Rules clearly state "two wheels on the track at all times" I've reviewed the WRS position on this in the past from one of their weekly qualifying runs, and it's pretty clear...so long as you have two wheels on the red strips, whether your other two wheels are on the left or the right, it's still a legal lap. If at some point crossing the red/white you have four wheels "over" the tarmac on the left and don't have two wheels on the curbing it's not a legal corner.

So long as any two of your wheels are on the red and white at all times, it's not cutting, it's a legal corner.

You should have at least 2 wheels on the left. If you have 4 wheels on the left side, then surely that's legal, as that's the track.


People were asking to run over the tarmac INSIDE the chicane on the right side of the curbing to get a straight line & shimmy through I guess. ?

BTW: I'm pretty sure 2 wheels means the ones on the same side.
And refers to normal parts of the track.

If you can figure out how to make a line through that chicane keeping ONLY catty-corner wheels on the curbing... Then I think you've been playing online video games for too long.

I think I'm just going to start running races with penalties on strong.

 

[watermelon punch]

I was pushing for you to say "keep 4 wheels on the track" in the room. Because everyone should be aware of what you want, not just those who read the thread an hour-two prior to the race. All the discussion we had here lead me to believe that you want people to have their inside wheels on the curb, not outside wheels. It's easily worth a second per lap and everyone should be aware of it.

Yes, yes, you mentioned it, I mentioned it, DQ mentioned it...
It was sure mentioned.
And so far I haven't seen anyone running over that chicane in the replays with any crazy line cutting.

Honestly, I just don't see how people want to do some kind of acrobatic maneuver on that chicane.
Maybe I just haven't messed about on that track often enough to find the secret odd crazy line through it in every car. But I'm just not seeing where it even gives you a better out-speed if you would dance over that chicane tarmac. That chicane is a death trap IMHO!!

Anyway, yes, the warm-up lap was ALSO MENTIONED THREE TIMES in the lounge.
I asked specifically if anyone had any questions - twice.

 

[dsgerbc]

I think I'm just going to start running races with penalties on strong.

Try that first, it's a mess =)

 

[Johnnypenso]

You should have at least 2 wheels on the left. If you have 4 wheels on the left side, then surely that's legal, as that's the track.


People were asking to run over the tarmac INSIDE the chicane on the right side of the curbing to get a straight line & shimmy through I guess. ?

BTW: I'm pretty sure 2 wheels means the ones on the same side.
And refers to normal parts of the track.

If you can figure out how to make a line through that chicane keeping ONLY catty-corner wheels on the curbing... Then I think you've been playing online video games for too long.

I think I'm just going to start running races with penalties on strong.

As I mentioned, I reviewed the WRS position on this many months ago when they had an event there, and the GTPlanet Rules agree with their position. Curbing = track. This chicane is no different than any other so according to GTPlanet Rules and the WRS, two left wheels on the curbing and the two right wheels on the tarmac is a legal lap. Not saying you can't change that, we can make up any rules we want to but technically we didn't follow the GTPlanet Rules with our "two right wheels on the curb" position today.

It's not a question of what I can or can't figure out, I'm just trying to follow the rules laid out in GTPlanet as we're supposed to.

And it does make a difference in lap times, 1+ seconds in the Cappuccino as I recall, running only slightly faster laptimes.

 

[jackargent]

I think we've all learnt lessons from this. For me the chicane here is pretty unique & I think watermelon's point about it not being a chicane if you can drive straight through it is pretty valid. The most important thing is that everyone knows the rules & sticks to them. A big thanks to johnny for asking the question ....it may have generated a somewhat heated discussion...but nothing to what it would have been like if we'd all run the race with our own ideas of the rules. I've watched the replay & although I certainly didn't watch every driver on every lap. I was really impressed with the way everyone took the correct line. In fact the only person I saw taking a really illegal line was...er ...me. i'm sure you will all accept my defence of incompetence.

As for Hugo & johnny ....glad you sorted out your differences. A good example of why the rules say sort it out between yourselves before ranting in the lounge or on the forum.

Anyway....I enjoyed myself even though I was rubbish as usual.

Looking forwards to some great photos.

& for those of you who thought This was madness...I badgered melon into running this event..so I take the blame.

P.S. if they don't want you to drive somewhere why don't they fence it off or put gravel in it?

 

[TomBrady]

Some pictures. I did my best

 

[V8-Johnboy]

^ Very nice.

 

[Gedi69]

^ Very nice.

Them pics must be from the 1st 4 laps as I'm in them lol

 

[watermelon punch]

P.S. if they don't want you to drive somewhere why don't they fence it off or put gravel in it?

Or at least make it so that the in-game penalty system will properly penalize people and make it clear so people can learn what the boundaries of the road are.
Another hot topic place is deep forest and those darn concrete slabs everyone likes to use.
Or Monza - flying over the speed bumps.

Another place of interest is Fuji.
Some GTPlanet series races I've seen (that have been broadcast streaming so I watched them)... I watched several cars in the race not only go wide with 4 wheels off track, deliberately, but they were so far off track that you could've fit another car between the car and the track!
And the people doing it won the series in question.

I guess it kind of saddens me that people playing for fun, with no money involved, are so hell bent on finding any little flaw to exploit, or loophole in the letter of the rule, to pull one over on their fellow racer, and break the spirit of the rules of fair racing with one's pals.

It's like the whole retaliatory monkey see monkey do rule breaking.
I see someone break the rules. I think oh boy that wasn't right, they're going to feel embarrassed and have people mad at them.
Someone else though... They see someone break the rules & think - OH MY GOODNESS THEY'RE GOING TO BEAT ME I HAVE TO BREAK THE RULES NOW TOO AND ANNOY EVERYONE IN ORDER TO GET A SHOT AT WINNING OMG OMG OMG OMG.


I think people need to relax a little more or something.
Take a stress pill & calm down.

 

[Gedi69]

Or at least make it so that the in-game penalty system will properly penalize people and make it clear so people can learn what the boundaries of the road are.
Another hot topic place is deep forest and those darn concrete slabs everyone likes to use.
Or Monza - flying over the speed bumps.

Another place of interest is Fuji.
Some GTPlanet series races I've seen (that have been broadcast streaming so I watched them)... I watched several cars in the race not only go wide with 4 wheels off track, deliberately, but they were so far off track that you could've fit another car between the car and the track!
And the people doing it won the series in question.

I guess it kind of saddens me that people playing for fun, with no money involved, are so hell bent on finding any little flaw to exploit, or loophole in the letter of the rule, to pull one over on their fellow racer, and break the spirit of the rules of fair racing with one's pals.

It's like the whole retaliatory monkey see monkey do rule breaking.
I see someone break the rules. I think oh boy that wasn't right, they're going to feel embarrassed and have people mad at them.
Someone else though... They see someone break the rules & think - OH MY GOODNESS THEY'RE GOING TO BEAT ME I HAVE TO BREAK THE RULES NOW TOO AND ANNOY EVERYONE IN ORDER TO GET A SHOT AT WINNING OMG OMG OMG OMG.

We need more people like you in our series, we have the same problems about people not listening or not understanding.

 

[V8-Johnboy]

Monza, Sarthe Gedi need i go on.

 

[dsgerbc]

This chicane is no different than any other so according to GTPlanet Rules and the WRS, two left wheels on the curbing and the two right wheels on the tarmac is a legal lap.

4 wheels on track=legal or 2 wheels on track=legal is not specified in OLR. So I see no issue in changing what's legal. But when done this late it has to be stated clearly, in bold/red and repeated in the room. And personally I don't care about results, I was running as if I was using the clutch/h-shifter &heel-toeing the whole race. Unfortunately mid-race I realized that my clutch wasn't doing anything . What I care about is clear rules.

 

[TomBrady]

Them pics must be from the 1st 4 laps as I'm in them lol

Actually they're from lap 2, first lap at race speed.

Or at least make it so that the in-game penalty system will properly penalize people and make it clear so people can learn what the boundaries of the road are.
Another hot topic place is deep forest and those darn concrete slabs everyone likes to use.
Or Monza - flying over the speed bumps.

Another place of interest is Fuji.
Some GTPlanet series races I've seen (that have been broadcast streaming so I watched them)... I watched several cars in the race not only go wide with 4 wheels off track, deliberately, but they were so far off track that you could've fit another car between the car and the track!
And the people doing it won the series in question.

I guess it kind of saddens me that people playing for fun, with no money involved, are so hell bent on finding any little flaw to exploit, or loophole in the letter of the rule, to pull one over on their fellow racer, and break the spirit of the rules of fair racing with one's pals.

It's like the whole retaliatory monkey see monkey do rule breaking.
I see someone break the rules. I think oh boy that wasn't right, they're going to feel embarrassed and have people mad at them.
Someone else though... They see someone break the rules & think - OH MY GOODNESS THEY'RE GOING TO BEAT ME I HAVE TO BREAK THE RULES NOW TOO AND ANNOY EVERYONE IN ORDER TO GET A SHOT AT WINNING OMG OMG OMG OMG.


I think people need to relax a little more or something.
Take a stress pill & calm down.

I hate that. I also think it's pretty bad of gtplanet to allow drivers who cheated to win the series, they should've immediately identified the problem and found a way to take care of it.

The ridiculous thing, is that some people don't think that going wide is a shortcut . Anyone who says or does that is just playing stupid. They pretend like because it's not shorter in distance therefore it's not a shortcut, BLASPHEMY!! Anyway that saves time by going off the defined track area, is a shortcut, whether it's a time shortcut, distance shortcut or both. I'm never surprised seeing it in random online rooms, but an official GTP? Frankly, that ain't cool.

It's kind of sad that people have to exploit every little thing that they can out of the game. I wish GT5 had a system like Iracing does, where you have a safety record, and even tiny contact, losses of control, and literally any ventures off track will count as strikes against you're rating. Iracing isn't perfect either, there are still people that drive dirty, get impatient and make crazy passes and cause extremely avoidable contact but the safety ratings do force everybody to take racing online nearly as seriously as you would in real life.Not to mention the damage in iracing is another thing that really forces people to treat it like it's real life. I would love it if GT5 had that kind of thing going for it online.

Unfortunately like any game, the list of things that could be added is just way too long to expect any changes soon. All we can do til then is treat the sim the way we think it should be, and I'm glad you guys are sticking to your guns on this, I agree with it.

 

[SagarisGTB]

SagarisGTB - your comments are rather surprising since I saw you never cut the chicane in any races or practices or impromptu racing on this track.
I've seen you use the curb normally. So I'm not sure where you think the rules have been changed from anything you're normally accustomed to.

Frankly, I think a lot of this "oh you've changed the rules" is a lot of B.S. that people were pushing to get me to give the okay for a crazy line cutting the chicane. (I'm not always the sharpest knife in the drawer - but I'm also not a sap!)

It's not that big of a deal. You make the rules so I modified my lines accordingly (from my practice session) through that chicane. I'm sorry if you thought I was trying to influence you, I apologize, my wording could have been far more appropriate.

I was surprised at the fact that it was deemed illegal because I was under the impression that races under the VCRC banner used the "2 wheels must be on track" and "curbs are track" ruleset that is common on GTplanet. I may have been mistaken because I race with many groups here on GTP and that is a common rule among them. And in the past, nothing in the VCRC races I have participated in has ever been close enough to be relevant with respect to the difference between these two different rulings. I, as a racing driver, will push the regulations to the limits (but not cross them) in the name of the spirit of competition, so it's definitly important to know what the limits are. In addition to being fair and clean, I feel I owe it to my competition to do my very best and therefore use as much track as I can to do so.

I did "cut" the chicane twice during the race, both times in instances where I went in too deep and no time was gained. I was just not on it today, I ran much better in yesterday's practice and feel lucky to have finished second. Thanks for the great event. 👍

 

[Johnnypenso]

4 wheels on track=legal or 2 wheels on track=legal is not specified in OLR. So I see no issue in changing what's legal. But when done this late it has to be stated clearly, in bold/red and repeated in the room. And personally I don't care about results, I was running as if I was using the clutch/h-shifter &heel-toeing the whole race. Unfortunately mid-race I realized that my clutch wasn't doing anything . What I care about is clear rules.

True, the OLR specifies only offline boundaries which the WRS follows. But clarity is definitely a must as I don't want someone entering a race and getting DQ'd or penalized for not following certain rules because they didn't by chance read the thread for a day or two. Something that will be corrected in the future certainly.

Another place of interest is Fuji.
Some GTPlanet series races I've seen (that have been broadcast streaming so I watched them)... I watched several cars in the race not only go wide with 4 wheels off track, deliberately, but they were so far off track that you could've fit another car between the car and the track!
And the people doing it won the series in question.

I see that an issue of enforcement. People bend or break or bend the rules all the time, sometimes deliberately sometimes because they are having difficulty controlling their cars. It's up to the RD and his/her stewards to review and enforce penalties. If they choose to ignore the rules completely it's not somewhere I want to race that's for sure, and I'd expect that anyone else interested in fairplay wouldn't either.👎